Captain America: Civil War

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FoolKiller
Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?

Joe Fix-It, Red Hulk, Pardoned/Regression or any of the Hulk becoming sane storylines, get some true Hulk vs Thor action on, Maestro, Leader, I can go on.
Basically, we can get a lot of stuff from the Peter David era. Hulk has had a long history of personality issues. It turns out that Banner has multiple personalities and the gamma radiation divided them into their raw forms: rage, evil, intelligence, etc. At some points they get merged and you wind up with a large, green, intelligent man with Bannet's mind in full control. Other times evil and intelligence take over and he becomes a mob boss with rage issues.

There are a lot of places you can go with Hulk. He has some incredible enemies. He's not just a rampaging beast whose most interesting story is getting pissed at the heroes of Earth. If they could make it work, a Planet Hulk movie would be incredible. Stan Lee envisioned him as a brute force for good. That has only been hinted at so far.


He is nigh God levels. He is the only thing on Earth to successfully punch Thor and send him flying. Even CA and IM couldn't scratch Thor, but Hulk punched him like a rag doll and then whipped another God around like a piece of paper. A God who thought he had nothing to fear from Earth because nothing could touch him. He survived a fall that Thor and Loki didn't think they could. The only reason he lost to the Hulkbuster in AoU was because he saw the destruction he had caused and began calming down before he got sucker punched. That and the story required it.

Hulk is there. They just haven't shown it in all his glory yet. It is why Hulk can't be part of Civil War. He's the nuclear bomb in that scenario.
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I agree with most of this, I feel Thadeus already being shown again was enough to get the idea that we may see Red Hulk sooner than we think. I also feel that She Hulk may come but then again I doubt it (unless they really do a standalone) because of the whole Black Widow love brewing type deal. I don't disagree Hulk has a story to be told, and the conflict between him and his subconscious living mate Bruce Banner is a great story, my issues are with how you tell the story and make it seem like he can't take on Thanos alone (he can't by the way).

There is no doubt that Hulk has incredible enemies, but when you sum the size of Hulk to everyone else in the MC they live in his shadow most times. I mean one only has to look at the Illuminati story line to see what kind of power and fear he invokes and I think it may be too much for the MCU. Where Hulk currently sits is almost enough anymore and you get this annoying power vacuum of everyone else, sort of like what DC will suffer with JL just because of how stupidly powerful Superman is, and without a real weakness, Hulk would be worse.
 
This movie feels a bit exhausting, in a good way. Was planning on watching it for the 3rd time but i think i need to slow down.
 
One funny story
when Tchalla was talking to his father, the last thing they said was thank you to each other, the issue is Thank you in their language is the same exact word for a woman's genital in arabic :lol: the whole cinema was still laughing even during the bomb :lol: very awkward.
 
sems4arsenal
One funny story
when Tchalla was talking to his father, the last thing they said was thank you to each other, the issue is Thank you in their language is the same exact word for a woman's genital in arabic :lol: the whole cinema was still laughing even during the bomb :lol: very awkward.
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..That's funny, 'cuz they....

.... were speaking in South African Xhosa language. ;) I didn't even need the subs to tell what they were talking about. Nkosi ubaba loosely translates into thank you/God bless, father.
 
JKgo
..That's funny, 'cuz they....

.... were speaking in South African Xhosa language. ;) I didn't even need the subs to tell what they were talking about. Nkosi ubaba loosely translates into thank you/God bless, father.
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Is the guy planing TChalla south african? thought his accent wasn't faked.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I also feel that She Hulk may come but then again I doubt it (unless they really do a standalone) because of the whole Black Widow love brewing type deal.
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What does a Black Widow romance have to do with She Hulk?

my issues are with how you tell the story and make it seem like he can't take on Thanos alone (he can't by the way).
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Actually, having Thanos stop him in his tracks is a great way to demonstrate Thanos' power. That's something that has yet to be established in the films. Make Hulk "the strongest there is" and then have Thanos stand up to him. Suddenly, Thanos is a far larger threat whether he has his gauntlet or not.

I mean one only has to look at the Illuminati story line to see what kind of power and fear he invokes and I think it may be too much for the MCU.
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You mean the event that began the end of the Illuminati? You're talking about Stark in his freak-out, we're out of control, I must make rash decisions without the full consent of my partners phase. Namor left over that and the group disbanded. That was not a case of fear among everyone.

without a real weakness, Hulk would be worse.
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Hulk has weaknesses, and he quits being so all-powerful when you introduce his rogues gallery. Abomination and Red Hulk are supposed to be equally matched.

There's a lot to be done with Hulk that can add to the MCU.
 
FoolKiller
What does a Black Widow romance have to do with She Hulk?
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My mistake I was thinking of Betty Ross and Red She-Hulk.


Actually, having Thanos stop him in his tracks is a great way to demonstrate Thanos' power. That's something that has yet to be established in the films. Make Hulk "the strongest there is" and then have Thanos stand up to him. Suddenly, Thanos is a far larger threat whether he has his gauntlet or not.
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While true, it doesn't require a stand alone of the Hulk.

You mean the event that began the end of the Illuminati? You're talking about Stark in his freak-out, we're out of control, I must make rash decisions without the full consent of my partners phase. Namor left over that and the group disbanded. That was not a case of fear among everyone.
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I recall all but Namor feared the Hulk's wrath as he went about wrecking most marvel heros and even Ghost Rider basically agreeing with the Hulk's actions after learning how far the Illuminati went. Also they did come back, I mean if they could get Richards some how they could make a movie, but I feel all I've heard and read on Civil War is enough to demonstrate how much Tony is his own enemy most days. I don't think you need a Illuminati movie to prove that more so.


Hulk has weaknesses, and he quits being so all-powerful when you introduce his rogues gallery. Abomination and Red Hulk are supposed to be equally matched.

There's a lot to be done with Hulk that can add to the MCU.
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I don't recall that, the only weakness the Hulk ever had was being tied to banner, and there was a time where they were separated and thus Hulk had not weakness and was just as intelligent as Banner.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
My mistake I was thinking of Betty Ross and Red She-Hulk.
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You almost got weird on me there.

I don't recall that, the only weakness the Hulk ever had was being tied to banner, and there was a time where they were separated and thus Hulk had not weakness and was just as intelligent as Banner.
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Innocent people and friends. He is the blunt force of good. They show it in AoU during the Hulkbuster fight. After he has a building collapsed on him he climbs out, looking for Tony, but sees all the damage and running and hurt people and stops. He starts to get triggered again when the military shows up, but he's still down enough that a single punch (many of which he'd already taken with no effect) from the Hulkbuster took him out. That weakness is so strong that it was overpowering Scarlet Witch's spell.

In Planet Hulk he had the opportunity to utterly decimate his gladiator opponents, but instead chose to lead them in a rebellion. He knows good from bad. He takes fights out of populated areas (when he isn't bewitched) and he will open himself to attack to keep civilians and friends from harm.

Not all weaknesses are green rocks from space or a lack of ability.
 
FoolKiller
You almost got weird on me there.


Innocent people and friends. He is the blunt force of good. They show it in AoU during the Hulkbuster fight. After he has a building collapsed on him he climbs out, looking for Tony, but sees all the damage and running and hurt people and stops. He starts to get triggered again when the military shows up, but he's still down enough that a single punch (many of which he'd already taken with no effect) from the Hulkbuster took him out. That weakness is so strong that it was overpowering Scarlet Witch's spell.

In Planet Hulk he had the opportunity to utterly decimate his gladiator opponents, but instead chose to lead them in a rebellion. He knows good from bad. He takes fights out of populated areas (when he isn't bewitched) and he will open himself to attack to keep civilians and friends from harm.

Not all weaknesses are green rocks from space or a lack of ability.
Click to expand...

AoU is different in the same way Starks bots were used against him. Hulk wasn't in control during that time for the most part, and I think the building landing on him helped get him out of the mental daze she put him under. However, I do see what you mean about that being a weakness, but I think that's more of a Banner weakness. However, that's all that matters since I doubt we'll ever see a Hulk without Banner in MCU.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
AoU is different in the same way Starks bots were used against him. Hulk wasn't in control during that time for the most part, and I think the building landing on him helped get him out of the mental daze she put him under. However, I do see what you mean about that being a weakness, but I think that's more of a Banner weakness. However, that's all that matters since I doubt we'll ever see a Hulk without Banner in MCU.
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Even if it is a Banner weakness, until they are separated it makes it Hulk's weakness.

Rick friend.
 
So, just got back. It was a very good movie, but I feel like I overhyped myself for it. A solid 8.5-9.0 out of 10, but it's not the best MCU movie, IMO.

I went in solidly Team Cap. I left being... Team Neither. Both seemed to grow increasingly immature by the end, so entrenched in their chosen side that they couldn't admit error. Cap is blinded by the one remaining tie to his past, and I get that. After really growing to like him in Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier, I found "conflicted" Rogers oddly less interesting, which I realize sounds sort of odd. But Tony wanting to kill Bucky for a mission he carried out while brainwashed 25 years ago? Did he push for Hawkeye and Selvig to be punished and/or killed after their actions under Loki's influence? He's taken this turn because one dead son of a woman he'd never met?

Also, as others point out, his quest for vengeance is the exact same as Zemo's. I'm assuming he's not okay with Zemo's action, so why should he be excused? I guess it really does prove that the Avengers (or at the very least, Stark) shouldn't get to decide these things. Which I guess is his goal, so mission accomplished.

He literally snuck out from under Ross' nose to go help Cap and Bucky after realizing they were right about the setup all along. How can he so quickly ignore that Bucky was a puppet?

Oh yeah: I'm not too bothered by Zemo's plan being too far-fetched. It actually felt pretty reasonable to me: the only thing he left for chance was Bucky not being killed in Bucharest, hoping that Cap would find him and they'd be brought in alive first. We don't know what he told Bucky after activating him...

Alright, enough venting. Things I genuinely enjoyed:
  • Vision being such a great source of humour. Though considering his origins, not knowing how to cook is exactly as unlikely as Ultron forgetting the word "children".
  • Pretty much any interaction between Falcon and Bucky.
  • The big, bold location titles. Mmmmmmmm.
  • Scarlet Witch has become an interesting character! The accent is still iffy, but Olsen's acting is far better here.
  • Speaking of accents, both Freeman and Boseman did excellent jobs here.
  • Black Panther is awesome. I love his drive, and his fight style.
  • The Spidey-hype is real. Holland nails it, and if I was skeptical of the "John Hughes movie" approach Feige has hinted for his movie next year, those worries are put to bed here.
  • Damn, I love Paul Rudd.
  • The airport fight really is head and shoulders above other fights in the MCU. Literally.
I feel like it was wrapped up too cleanly. Yes, it has repercussions on the whole MCU moving forward, but not that many. Bucky's frozen again, most of the Avengers are fugitives (is Vision and maybe/sorta Romanov all that's left?), and Rhodey might be out of action for a bit. A far bolder move would've been Cap leaving the team in The Raft, or possibly killing off War Machine. Are we really expected to believe this super-secret, highly advanced prison for enhanced people can be successfully infiltrated by a lone soldier (sans shield)? It also seems a massive waste to have such a huge fight primarily revolve around Bucky only to stick him in the ice cube tray all over again.
 
SlipZtrEm
Vision being such a great source of humour. Though considering his origins, not knowing how to cook is exactly as unlikely as Ultron forgetting the word "children".
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I got the impression that they were trying to present Vision as lacking something fundamentally human. He's a lot like Pinocchio - an imitation of life and humanity that no matter how accurate and nuanced, is still an imitation. He looks for "a pinch of paprika", but clearly doesn't know what counts as "a pinch"; he can't break it down into this mathematical, scientific understanding.
 
prisonermonkeys
I got the impression that they were trying to present Vision as lacking something fundamentally human. He's a lot like Pinocchio - an imitation of life and humanity that no matter how accurate and nuanced, is still an imitation. He looks for "a pinch of paprika", but clearly doesn't know what counts as "a pinch"; he can't break it down into this mathematical, scientific understanding.
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This, coupled with the questioning that befalls him after admitting he lost his concentration when he shot down Rhodey. I think it would be easy to miss this pivotal moment within the film, since he is battling the thought that he is becoming more human.
 
SlipZtrEm
Speaking of accents, both Freeman and Boseman did excellent jobs here.
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...Freeman was fine, but Chadwick's weren't. Didn't matter though, as it was only one scene. I'm sure he'll get more practice in for his solo film.

Also, as for Mr. "Stank" losing it when he found out W.S was responsible for his parents' deathes, I thought the film makers tried to inseminate the idea that he was full of regret and repressed anger towards the event and at himself. I found his reaction to be rather natural.
 
JKgo
...Yeah, it was a bit improbable, but then Cap's a badass and {potentially} funded by Wakandan mullah so why not. We need the set-up for the next Marvel movie after all.
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Would've been better imo, in the next movie cap teams up with Tony or Tchalla or whatever and break them out, but yeah a slight nitpick.
 
sems4arsenal
Would've been better imo, in the next movie cap teams up with Tony or Tchalla or whatever and break them out, but yeah a slight nitpick.
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I guess they wanted to tie things up a little more neatly because it'll be a couple of years to go until Black Panther and Avengers 3 are scheduled for release and they didn't want to leave people hanging like they did with Star Wars TFA.
 
sems4arsenal
Would've been better imo, in the next movie cap teams up with Tony or Tchalla or whatever and break them out, but yeah a slight nitpick.
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...I'm thinking The infamous Hollywood Happy Endings Syndrome had something to do with the ending. You know, how blockbusters like CW must end on a brighter note.

UKMikey's right - the next films where we get to see Cap and Co. is Avengers 3 and Black Panther*. Too. Far. Away....

We'll see Tony Stark in Spider Man though, but no word on Cap.

.....Also, love the page full of nothing but spoiler tags!! :lol:


Disclaimer on *: Just my speculation. Don't quote me on this if it doesn't pan out.
 
Got back a while ago, had some lunch, and now I'm ready. Right off the bat, I have to address the elephant in the room and ask:

Was that or was that not the Bleeding Edge armor? It looked a little too much like it (with freedoms taking here and there) but I was nerding out throughout wondering just whether or not it was supposed to be.

Moving on, this was certainly different and not in the bad way. The presentation and the location title cards made it feel like something out of Ocean's 11 for a good portion of the first act, hell throughout the entire movie really - and that's not a criticism on my part because I love O11. I had a real appreciation for how things ultimately came together only to fall apart soon after, but I never really chose a side because both had legitimate points being made.

Stark is conflicted and driven by the guilt he's been shouldering for the longest of time, these people with their unparalleled gifts are putting lives in danger all in the name of protecting them in the first place. When it's all said and done however they'll all just get up and walk away, more or less. Rogers feels it's their burden to bear and no one else; the good ol' Spock philosophy - the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few. It's a bit crass when uttered but it's the sad true because you won't be able to save everyone all the time, and the second you let that creep on you and let it waiver your judgment no one is saved.

More to my point, I never chose a side because I just wanted to see these guys fight it out. Daniel Bruhl played his role pretty damn well, but my criticism of his use is the same of Vision's in AoU: there just isn't enough of him. I get he's playing the role of puppeteer, but I wish things were a little more open to what was going on. I don't know. Maybe I'm saying because I went in completely forgetting that Zemo was in the movie, because I definitely did that. Either way I'm rambling because I'm still hyped up a bit, so let's get to the bullet points.

  • Best portrayal of the Web-head to date. Really played up on his early teenage personality, hell, even his personality in his adult years (Peter honestly and truthfully doesn't mature very much under the mask :lol: ).
  • Please have Bucky and Falcon talk more. Please?
  • I love that they made light of the fact that Aunt May was attractive for someone you're expecting to be older.
  • Paul Rudd. More of him, please.
  • Vision wearing normal clothing and trying to fit in. Also the chemistry between him and Scarlet is there and I love it.
  • When Bucky is initially found and the whole fight scene in the complex happens, it instantly reminded me of Daredevil.
  • Black Panther. Another perfect casting choice in Boseman. The accent was on point too. :lol:
  • The battle between Stark, Steve and Bucky was about as tense and personal as something like that can be. That's the kind of battle where you switch sides with every punch thrown.
There was just a bit too much going on for a first viewing so I'll see it again and put things together a little bit better.
 
Terronium-12
Got back a while ago, had some lunch, and now I'm ready. Right off the bat, I have to address the elephant in the room and ask:

Was that or was that not the Bleeding Edge armor? It looked a little too much like it (with freedoms taking here and there) but I was nerding out throughout wondering just whether or not it was supposed to be.

Moving on, this was certainly different and not in the bad way. The presentation and the location title cards made it feel like something out of Ocean's 11 for a good portion of the first act, hell throughout the entire movie really - and that's not a criticism on my part because I love O11. I had a real appreciation for how things ultimately came together only to fall apart soon after, but I never really chose a side because both had legitimate points being made.

Stark is conflicted and driven by the guilt he's been shouldering for the longest of time, these people with their unparalleled gifts are putting lives in danger all in the name of protecting them in the first place. When it's all said and done however they'll all just get up and walk away, more or less. Rogers feels it's their burden to bear and no one else; the good ol' Spock philosophy - the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few. It's a bit crass when uttered but it's the sad true because you won't be able to save everyone all the time, and the second you let that creep on you and let it waiver your judgment no one is saved.

More to my point, I never chose a side because I just wanted to see these guys fight it out. Daniel Bruhl played his role pretty damn well, but my criticism of his use is the same of Vision's in AoU: there just isn't enough of him. I get he's playing the role of puppeteer, but I wish things were a little more open to what was going on. I don't know. Maybe I'm saying because I went in completely forgetting that Zemo was in the movie, because I definitely did that. Either way I'm rambling because I'm still hyped up a bit, so let's get to the bullet points.

  • Best portrayal of the Web-head to date. Really played up on his early teenage personality, hell, even his personality in his adult years (Peter honestly and truthfully doesn't mature very much under the mask :lol: ).
  • Please have Bucky and Falcon talk more. Please?
  • I love that they made light of the fact that Aunt May was attractive for someone you're expecting to be older.
  • Paul Rudd. More of him, please.
  • Vision wearing normal clothing and trying to fit in. Also the chemistry between him and Scarlet is there and I love it.
  • When Bucky is initially found and the whole fight scene in the complex happens, it instantly reminded me of Daredevil.
  • Black Panther. Another perfect casting choice in Boseman. The accent was on point too. :lol:
  • The battle between Stark, Steve and Bucky was about as tense and personal as something like that can be. That's the kind of battle where you switch sides with every punch thrown.
There was just a bit too much going on for a first viewing so I'll see it again and put things together a little bit better.
Click to expand...

....I hope you stayed behind for both of the post-credit scenes... :lol:
 
Terronium-12
Got back a while ago, had some lunch, and now I'm ready. Right off the bat, I have to address the elephant in the room and ask:

Was that or was that not the Bleeding Edge armor? It looked a little too much like it (with freedoms taking here and there) but I was nerding out throughout wondering just whether or not it was supposed to be.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. The movies have screwed up the features of Iron Man's armors since the Mark 3 (which is supposed to be based on the Extremis armor based on appearance). In other words, they have pretty much kept Iron Man's tech on the right side of realism as far as progression is concerned.

That said, I just thought that Iron Man's suit for the movie was an original make independent of the comics.
 
Sanji Himura
Yes and no. The movies have screwed up the features of Iron Man's armors since the Mark 3 (which is supposed to be based on the Extremis armor based on appearance). In other words, they have pretty much kept Iron Man's tech on the right side of realism as far as progression is concerned.

That said, I just thought that Iron Man's suit for the movie was an original make independent of the comics.
Click to expand...

Well the MCU isn't in a place to make Stark a transhuman, or to have a suit made entirely of nanomachines. It wasn't clearly stated, but I wasn't asking if it was Bleeding Edge in terms of abilities (he'd be well OP if that were the case), but more in appearance - of course it isn't the comic version of Bleeding Edge.

Good lord. More than Bucky's left arm would have been incinerated. :lol:
 

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