Captain America: Civil War

[05XR8]

I'm not opposed to the inclusion of Spiderman in general. Just this version of Spiderman because he's so damn annoying.


It's definitely one of the stronger MCU films, but I think that The Winter Soldier was much better.

Spoiler

The main problem is Zemo. On the one hand, he's interesting in that he proves the double standard of the heroes. He and Tony Stark have the same reaction to a personal tragedy, and yet Stark's reactions are somehow excusable because he is an Avenger. But on the other hand, Zemo is boring and predictable; his plan hinges on Bucky, Rodgers and Stark all being in the same place at the same time, and to get them there, he relies on a specific set of circumstances playing out, even though he has no control over them. I detest these plots that call for the villain to so accurately predict the heroes' actions that they can then factor these actions into their plans ao that the heroes unintentionally support them. They mistake convoluted thinking and luck for cunning and intellect.

Otherwise ...

Spoiler

I found T'Challa interesting. I'm very curious to see where Marvel takes his character, seeing as how Wakanda is reaching out to the world, and the kind of balancing act that T'Challa will need to perform now that the Avengers are under his protection.

I'm also curious to see where they go with Bucky. I would be inclined to keep him in stasis for now, and have him wake up in a world where Thanos is in command of the Infinity Gems, the Avengers have fallen and Earth has been overrun by the Chitauri. He becomes the new Captain America before being found by Doctor Strange and pulled into a new reality, since I think Doctor Strange is going to revolve around quantum entanglement.

Spoiler

I'll respect your view about Spidey. I feel his character was played just as the age he is meant to.

I played along with the writers in regards to Zemo. I'll wait til the the rest of the people in this forum catch up. Then, I'll let loose my feelings about it.

T'Challa is for real. It is clear to see his purpose. That's what I like. I too can't wait for his solo movie.

Do you mean you can't create a spoiler?

Just type in the code. Put brackets [] around "spoiler" at the beginning and then "/spoiler" in brackets at the end of the section you want to spoiler.




You make it sound like

Spoiler

he goes all fanboy around the other heroes. That's about right. He's a teenager who stumbled upon powers and is trying to be a hero with no idea what to do. He looks up to the Avengers as role models. Picture a teenage boy meeting his bigger-than-life hero. That's early years Spider-Man anytime he has a team up.

Cheap Microsoft phone. Doesn't come up with all the emoticons like on my PC and my old HTC.

Spoiler

Exactly, about Spider-Man

I think he means that creating a spoiler on a tiny phone touch screen because it's hard to reach the "[" and "]" virtual keys.

Whatever Spider-Man (note hyphen) takes away from this movie (and I strongly doubt he will) his aunt will add back. she's got to be the most isually appealing Aunt May since Mark Millar's Trouble series LOL.

It is Pm's opinion. I'll respect it. You'll see for yourself.

Spoiler

You got that right. Tomei has always been a cutie. From when I first saw her in A Different World(showing my age)

 

[Terronium-12]

*Reads "most visually appealing Aunt May since..." remark.*

*Googles "Aunt May Civil War."*

Marisa Tomei?! Why am I just now discovering this?

 

[GTboyz]

It seems that Aunt May got younger and younger everytime they reboot Spiderman

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If they're anything like the film, I would probably have no problem with them. I can appreciate Deadpool's smart-arse streak, just as I can appreciate Tony Stark being a pain in the neck at the best of times. But if the Spiderman of the comics is anything like the Spiderman of Civil War, I wouldn't be able to stand him because he's so irritating.

The issue is you've seen a few lines, and context to what they go to and from that little minuscule portion you've come to a conclusion on a character. A leap of faith almost, that this is a guy you absolutely wont like because of light hearted behavior. Which is why I brought up Deadpool, a character who many times has been known to play off the same type of jokes as Parker, with Parker even...and yet you don't find him annoying...

It seems that Aunt May got younger and younger everytime they reboot Spiderman

Hell look at the Spiderman animated series the newest one. Aunt May even got younger in that, it's one of the more confusing things about Spiderman related material. I mean I for one never found nor though aunt may should be attractive or hot cougarish type. Poor Uncle Ben is spinning in his grave.

 

[05XR8]

Hey, he could have more than one aunt. I've seen in some families, several sisters with the same name. The first couple were Aunt Mae, This is Aunt Mae.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Hey, he could have more than one aunt. I've seen in some families, several sisters with the same name. The first couple were Aunt Mae, This is Aunt Mae.

You just think this Aunt May is hot.

 

[05XR8]

Tomei has been on my radar for 25 years.

 

[GTboyz]

Just seen it.

9/10.

Highlights

Spoiler

-Every Bucky and Falcon scenes.
-Every Peter Parker/Spider-Man scenes.
-Brief interaction between Scott Lang and Tony Stark.
-Airport Battle.
-[Gi]ant Man.
-Hawkeye vs Black Phanter.
-Vision phases through Ant-Man.
-Empire Strikes Back reference.
-Peter and Tony, so glad Tony Stark will be in Spidey solo movie.
-Third act.

Will watch again.

 

[UKMikey]

Just saw it. Stupendous. No bad bits. Especially Aunt Milf

Will also watch again. The Avengers are in safe hands with the Russos.

I think @GTboyz covered pretty much everything in the post above but the story was well crafted enough that all the cool stuff just serves as a distraction from the horrifying secret of what went down on that December day back in '91:

Spoiler: Don't say I didn't warn you

Everett K. Ross found out he was Thunderbolt Ross's illegitimate son

Only kidding but to give away the plot this soon would just ruin what could be the first Marvel trilogy to not suffer from sequelitis and actually improve from film to film.

 

[05XR8]

Just seen it.

9/10.

Highlights

Spoiler

-Every Bucky and Falcon scenes.
-Every Peter Parker/Spider-Man scenes.
-Brief interaction between Scott Lang and Tony Stark.
-Airport Battle.
-[Gi]ant Man.
-Hawkeye vs Black Phanter.
-Vision phases through Ant-Man.
-Empire Strikes Back reference.
-Peter and Tony, so glad Tony Stark will be in Spidey solo movie.
-Third act.

Will watch again.

The fifth, seventh & eigth on your list is what I didn't want to spoil but, your list is what makes this movie fantastic.
Black Panther, man.... Black Panther...

 

[GTboyz]

Oh and i must say, this has the BEST plot out of any Marvel movies. It still has that little bit of spy conspiracy, espionage stuff from TWS, but this time the Superhero factor is of course a bit larger.
The acting and drama just feels a lot better too, i love RDJ's portrayal of Stark in this movie. Everyone did their job right. You can place them with each other and mix it up and you'll see the chemistry will always work between each of them.

I have to admit, i don't know what Baron Zemo in the comics supposed to be like but Zemo in this movie is a different kind of MCU villain. He still isn't on Loki or Kingpin level but potentially he can go up there with them.

Spoiler

T'Challa and Zemo's scene at the end was really great. It's really powerful too with the montagr of Cap and Ironman beating the hell out of each other.

 

[Brend]

Just out of the movie, properly enjoyed it. Spiderman is awesome, totally recommended.

Seeing again tomorrow at the IMAX.

 

[UKMikey]

Just out of the movie, properly enjoyed it. Spiderman is awesome, totally recommended.

Seeing again tomorrow at the IMAX.

I think Tom Holland is going to be playing Spider-Man for quite a long time or at least until his voice breaks. Getting that mole removed from his chin was a good move. It was so large and distracting I was surprised it didn't negotiate a movie of its own. Called "Mr Holland's Old Pus".

Baron Zemo in the comics wears a decorative golden tiara and a purple sock over his head. Some versions of the character even have it permanently glued to his face so I'm glad the movie jettisoned the costume.

 

[GTboyz]

I'm still wondering what happened with Scott Lang between Ant-Man and Civil War. His suit got enhanced as you can see in the trailer (even

Spoiler

gaining that cool monitor on his wrist when he's about to become Giant Man, he even implied that he tested it before

). I mean it's not like Pym has more missions for him to do after his solo movie. Did Pym just gave the suit to Scott ? Or upgrade it during the time ? For what exactly? Hope they address it in Ant Man and The Wasp.

 

[UKMikey]

Maybe Scott just broke into Pym's house and stole the suit again.

It's funny that there's no adamantium in the MCU and that vibranium is the strongest metal. I hope T'challa at least gives Steve's shield a rebuff while he's holidaying in Wakanda to remove the scratches he put in it. Superheroes have an image to uphold after all.

 

[JKgo]

...Just got back from the local cinema. Weird to see all the empty seats though - most families I saw were off to either Jungle Book or the new Ratchet and Clank movie. Animations. Always a safe bet, I guess.

Great movie, wonderful pacing with absolutely no slack anywhere but also lets the audience (me!!) keep up with the plot. Loved the way the film makers inseminated an idea in the beginning as well as in the middle, and let it pay off at the end.

However, I thought that...

Spoiler

Rhodes was going to kick the bucket. Those damn trailers!! Consequently, throughout the whole film I didn't feel that the stakes were high enough, and that at end the good guys would make up and sing khumbaya together. Which they kinda did...

Ultimately, I'd rate it lower then Winter Soldier, but it certainly packs a heavier punch.

Zemo's plan was.... not that clever - too much relied on factors outside of his control. Maybe a scene or two got edited out and left that logic hole there. Who knows.

And Black Panther - holy cow, The Freaking Black Panther!! I'm looking forward to his solo movie. Five bucks say some members of Avengers making an appearance in that. Oh and that Xhosa accent - Chadwick needs to practice a bit more there.

The Spider-Man sequences were gold. Everyone in the cinema was laughing pretty hard. But I didn't quite feel Holland as Parker - his acting felt a bit wooden.

Can't wait for it to get a home release - this one's a definite keeper.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention it earlier, but I had to see it in 3D.

There I was, thinking I got robbed of extra bucks, as this film would've been just as fine in 2D....

 

[FoRiZon]

@JKgo Well, in here the "Jungle Book" is quite a flop. Only lasts exactly one week.

The Civil War on the other hand. Omg. I have to book ticket even 2 days after premiere here.

 

[Famine]

While I enjoyed the film...

Spoiler

"Look, Tony. You remember that bit in Iron Man 2 when Rhodey's suit was hacked by Ivan Vanko and he was helpless to prevent its powers being used directly against you and civilians for someone else's agenda? Well it's exactly like that, only Bucky's mind was hacked."

... would have staved the whole thing off.

I'm not sure that any of the 'Civil War' bit - the legislative part and the arguments for/against it - was resolved either. Aside from the majority of the pro-side's arguments making no sense...

Spoiler

Oh, 'we' need to be reined in do 'we'? The former arms merchant who in Iron Man 2 said the government shouldn't have access to his arc reactor/Iron Man tech after the second attempt to fight people using his arc reactor/Iron Man tech against him, then unleashed the distributed computing evil of Ultron on the world in reaction to two gods bringing their sibling rivalry to Earth thanks to their dad banishing one of them there as a punishment - which the World Security Council (which includes the Vice-President of the USA, Gideon Malick) decided to solve by NUKING MANHATTAN.

Seems like a sane plan that, Tone. Meanwhile, the only augmented human actually created by a government program doesn't agree and takes three of the four ordinary agents of government with him - Agent 13, Hawkeye and, eventually, Black Widow.

The fourth - James Rhodes - suggests it's the United Nations and not merely the World Security Council, like that makes a difference.

... the fact that ...

Spoiler

Steve is right about Bucky not being behind the Vienna bombing is a complete irrelevance to whether he's right about the Sokovia Accords or not. Indeed his point that the Avengers should be autonomous so that they can go where they think they are needed without any oversight is called into doubt by the fact he goes to Russia, with Bucky, and Tony ignores his opposition to this independence by going with them too, only for that to be exactly what the bad guy in this instance wanted to happen, would indicate that oversight might have been nice. Or a metric :censored:ton more Avengers going too.

... kinda leaves it all up in the air somewhat.

Elsewhere in the suspension of disbelief...

Spoiler

Vision is Jarvis and the Internet, augmented by the Mind Stone. And he doesn't know how to cook?

And despite being Jarvisinternet he doesn't know the internet's favourite phrase that correlation does not equal causation, when he says that the number of attacks by bad guys has risen as the number of known augmenteds has risen? The Chitauri didn't attack Earth because of the Avengers. They attacked Earth because one Asgardian hates his brother and since Earth is precious to his brother he wants to rules it to punish him - it was only protected by the independent actions of the Avengers, as opposed to the World Security Council which, at the risk of repeating myself, wanted to NUKE MANHATTAN.

Basically Earth has been sucked into an interplanetary conflict by a petulant mischief god. Vision shouldn't think that responding to the conflict's manifestations on Earth actually caused it.

And anyway, thanks to SHIELD they all know that the Kree created Inhumans, so it's not like it's a new thing. Sort it out, Vision.

Enjoyed the film itself though.

 

[JKgo]

...Oh yeah, how long are we suppose to use the spoiler tag in here? A month? A month and a half?

 

[Famine]

...Oh yeah, how long are we suppose to use the spoiler tag in here? A month? A month and a half?

Well, at least until the Americans have seen it. They are a week behind after all.

 

[JKgo]

Well, at least until the Americans have seen it. They are a week behind after all.

...True. Spoiler tag it is then.

Oh, since you saw the movie now, lemme fly a theory by you.

Spoiler

Before the film's release I heard the actress Alfre Woodard was appearing in this film as a grieving mother. Which she did, but then, it turns out she works for The State Department.

The very next scene with Stark is with the Acord in tow, and the Secretary of the State alongside. Could it be.... that Ross actually sent her in to bring him in line before he threw the agreement in Avengers' faces?

Interesting to note, is that Woodard is scheduled to appear in Luke Cage, as a "unrelated to TCW role" government official.

I wonder now if that's true....

 

[Famine]

Oh, since you saw the movie now, lemme fly a theory by you.

That would be very odd.

Until now, no one actor has played two different and unrelated major roles other than Stan Lee. Bettany's Vision, born of Jarvis - which was also Bettany - is the nearest, but the two roles are directly related and one was voice only. Or Enver Gjokaj, who plays a random cop in Avengers Assemble and Daniel Sousa in Agent Carter. Though we've had a few characters played by two actors (Rhodes, Hulk).

Spoiler

These characters are significant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mariah_(comics)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Sharpe

So perhaps the two MCU characters aren't unrelated and the CACW character isn't sent by Ross, but is acting of her own motivations. They could be the same character, but one a fake identity. Both are politicians, interestingly...

 

[UKMikey]

I can't watch Finn Cooley playing Bor in the beginning of Thor TDW without seeing him as that one Irish mobster from Daredevil with the widdly-diddly Irish jig ringtone.

 

[JKgo]

That would be very odd.

Until now, no one actor has played two different and unrelated major roles other than Stan Lee. Bettany's Vision, born of Jarvis - which was also Bettany - is the nearest, but the two roles are directly related and one was voice only. Or Enver Gjokaj, who plays a random cop in Avengers Assemble and Daniel Sousa in Agent Carter. Though we've had a few characters played by two actors (Rhodes, Hulk).

Spoiler

These characters are significant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mariah_(comics)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Sharpe

So perhaps the two MCU characters aren't unrelated and the CACW character isn't sent by Ross, but is acting of her own motivations. They could be the same character, but one a fake identity. Both are politicians, interestingly...

...You might be onto something here. The Luke Cage storyline isn't known at this point, and that villain you mentioned sounds very interesting. I'm not certain how this will play out though.... These Marvel guys sure know how to keep cards real close to their chests...

I guess it may come down to how willing are the Marvel movie guys to connect with Netflix Defenders crew. All this talk of Marvel TV boss and movie boss not seeing eye to eye certainly puts a complicated face to the situation.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I guess it may come down to how willing are the Marvel movie guys to connect with Netflix Defenders crew. All this talk of Marvel TV boss and movie boss not seeing eye to eye certainly puts a complicated face to the situation.

Speaking as someone that hasn't seen Civil War yet, but is all caught up on the Netflix series, it's certainly disappointing, though understandable. As much as I enjoy the more mature theme DD and JJ have, I imagine it'd be a nightmare to mix with the lighter MCU tone. Even the token nods in Agents of Shield feel strange – and that show had to massively change in response to Winter Soldier.

Part of me doesn't understand why Perlmutter and Fiege are butting heads, as the idea of TV series interconnecting with the greater MCU was how these things were all originally presented. Perhaps keeping the TV shows separate is a move to stave off superhero fatigue: we're 13 films in now, so it will become increasingly harder for people to jump in without intimate knowledge of what came before. Taking on hours of shows, in various formats, only makes that harder.

Unfortunately, since the TV series do seem to want to keep themselves in the movie-based MCU, by continuing to reference it (however subtly), it's becoming increasingly awkward while watching those. Even weirder, to my memory, there's been no real references in the Netflix and NBC shows to each other. Had the various TV-based shows adopted DC's approach (keeping TV universes strictly separate from movie, so I hear anyway), it wouldn't be an issue.

...

On the subject of Civil War itself, I've been enjoying whatever reviews I've read, and I'm curious to revisit the negative ones post-viewing to see how much of it is legitimate, and how much is anti-superhero movie whinging. I'll probably stick myself on a media blackout throughout the week, too: Twitter is already a minefield, and one review I've read covered the post-credit scene in a more specific way than I would've cared. Not quite a shocking spoiler, but disappointing nonetheless. On the plus side, work this week will play right into that plan.

 

[JKgo]

Speaking as someone that hasn't seen Civil War yet, but is all caught up on the Netflix series, it's certainly disappointing, though understandable. As much as I enjoy the more mature theme DD and JJ have, I imagine it'd be a nightmare to mix with the lighter MCU tone. Even the token nods in Agents of Shield feel strange – and that show had to massively change in response to Winter Soldier.

Part of me doesn't understand why Perlmutter and Fiege are butting heads, as the idea of TV series interconnecting with the greater MCU was how these things were all originally presented. Perhaps keeping the TV shows separate is a move to stave off superhero fatigue: we're 13 films in now, so it will become increasingly harder for people to jump in without intimate knowledge of what came before. Taking on hours of shows, in various formats, only makes that harder.

Unfortunately, since the TV series do seem to want to keep themselves in the movie-based MCU, by continuing to reference it (however subtly), it's becoming increasingly awkward while watching those. Even weirder, to my memory, there's been no real references in the Netflix and NBC shows to each other. Had the various TV-based shows adopted DC's approach (keeping TV universes strictly separate from movie, so I hear anyway), it wouldn't be an issue.

...

On the subject of Civil War itself, I've been enjoying whatever reviews I've read, and I'm curious to revisit the negative ones post-viewing to see how much of it is legitimate, and how much is anti-superhero movie whinging. I'll probably stick myself on a media blackout throughout the week, too: Twitter is already a minefield, and one review I've read covered the post-credit scene in a more specific way than I would've cared. Not quite a shocking spoiler, but disappointing nonetheless. On the plus side, work this week will play right into that plan.

...Funny you should mention the post credit stinger - the people who were watching the film all began to leave as soon as the credits started rolling - and when the scene finally came on, everyone just stopped in their tracks, blocking the only exit out!! That was slightly hilarious, seeing this dude who was clearly hurting for a bathroom break unable to leave quickly.

As for Feige and Perlmutter story, the common rumor points to money - one's a bit stingy, other wishes to splurge. Just a rumor, so not sure how much of it is credible.

You're right about Netflix TV shows seemingly having no ties to AoS however. The talks about... uh, money, must have been rather... strenuous.

 

[UKMikey]

...Funny you should mention the post credit stinger - the people who were watching the film all began to leave as soon as the credits started rolling - and when the scene finally came on, everyone just stopped in their tracks, blocking the only exit out!! That was slightly hilarious, seeing this dude who was clearly hurting for a bathroom break unable to leave quickly.

You'd think after twelve movies people would have learnt to wait for the stinger by now.

That poor guy lol.

 

[JKgo]

You'd think after twelve movies people would have learnt to wait for the stinger by now.

That poor guy lol.

...

I think he got to a loo without an accident. I think.

Oh and I missed your previous post about Thor 2. So there was something like that, eh.

But in my defense, the only bit I remember from TDW was Loki playing Cap America playing Loki.

 

[GTboyz]

Love this scene.

Spoiler

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Or Enver Gjokaj, who plays a random cop in Avengers Assemble and Daniel Sousa in Agent Carter.

He played Victor in Joss Whedon's short-lived "Dollhouse". Given that Whedon directed The Avengers, is one of the creative drivers behind Agents of SHIELD and has a habit of casting the same actors in all of his projects (like Eliza Dushku and Carlos Jacott), it's no surprise he doubled up.