Cars you thought you GREAT but ended up being CRAP!

[Lucas]

I think we all learned something from mafia_boy today: Always analize cars depending on their quarter-mile times and acceleration properties 👍

Leaving that aside, here's what I have to say:

Spoon Civic Type-R: Or should I say ALL of Honda's Type-Rs? Leaving the NSX-R aside, of course. Every thousand fails there has to be a win, am I right? Wheelspin comes in a herd, and even the almighty 11.000 RPMs don't help the car at all, since at low revs the power is almost none. Compare this car to a muscle car in Costa Di Amalfi! Even the Plymouth Superbird, both running on S3 tires, will definitely kill the poor little Civic. I must say that's a big 👎 from me, seeing as a car with a carbon-fibre hood can't even take on the old american tradition of "the bigger, the better". Even the wheelspin is worse than that of a muscle car, what a joke! At least this car is good for some laughs. 👍

Basically, every production FF should fit, unless it has less than 180hp. Which I must say, gives it almost no purpose other than running races for 200 A-Spec points or the FF Challenge.

And that's not to talk about the stock Civic. Compared to the Superbird, it is even more crap. It should be more fair to compare a tuned Superbird to a tuned Civic, don't you think?

Ford Mustang GT: What? Heavier and with less power than the Corvette Z06. Why should I choose it? The Corvette has an excellent handling, while the Mustang is just poor. The Corvette has more to give, and in my opinion, better looks. Sure, they don't matter in a race, but if you are going to lose, may as well lose with style!

Other than those cars, and the FF drivetrain, I can't complain about anything. After all, all the cars are a great addition to the game.

 

[Hyst]

Is that a true story?

It's not true that it blew the other cars off the track. Even though the 2J was plagued by mechanical problems, other teams in Can Am (McLaren in particular) could see the scary potential of the 2J and pressure from other teams got it banned.

 

[SirBerra]

Is that a true story?

Yes, the story is true. I saw most of the short-track Chaparrals at Can-Am races, although I never had a chance to see the 2J. But it did use a snowblower engine to drive the rear fans for downforce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_Cars
Look at the section for the 2J. Jim Hall was a brilliant engineer and his race cars were just so cool and seemingly advanced for their time. During their relatively brief time, they usually had other race teams tearing their hair out.

The GT4 2J is good for very smooth tracks, but rough tracks and that damn limited three-speed is such a downer. I've tried, and tried, but finally gave up after about a year of fiddling. The best use I've ever found for it was the Special trials rain race (Hard). You can win with it by about 20 seconds.

 

[Hyst]

The 3-Speed is (in real life) a semi-auto and was designed to leave the driver alone and let him focus on actually driving the car.

 

[Lucas]

McLaren argued that if the 2J was not outlawed, it would likely kill the CanAm series by totally dominating it - ironically, something McLaren had been doing for years.

Seems like it was a true monster.

 

[Andy GT]

SPOON S2000! Totally wasted $/Cr. 200.000

 

[Rykon Zero]

If I'm not mistaken, that car is brought down by a glitch- the power doesn't reach it's peak until 1-2000 revs after the rev limiter.

 

[mafia_boy]

I think we all learned something from mafia_boy today: Always analize cars depending on their quarter-mile times and acceleration properties 👍

I'm sure you're being sarcastic with that comment and I DID say sprints OR racing, nothing to do with just going up the 1/4 mile....so I'll put it this way:

Good acceleration = good takeoff from corners. 1/4 miles help that factor and teach you more about gear adjusting than a simple autoset change.

As for handling, the Alfa 156 was turned into a boat with it's handling in GT4, in GT3 it was the best handling tuned FF out there and the quickest too. The Cizeta is a hopeless car, even when tuned to it's best possible degree on most tracks. The Cien shares a similar fate.

 

[Mazda Mazda]

It has downforce most definitely, it's just not adjustable.

What I meant was that the 2J's downforce doesn't work. When there is a part where a car is most likely to jump(Like Seattle's uphill part), It'll fly abnormally high.

 

[Hyst]

I wouldn't put the Cizeta in the same sentence as the Cien. The Cizeta is serviceable on high speed tracks, whilst the Cien is just hopeless.

 

[Jonn 79]

I love the spoon civic. With the correct close ratio setting on a full customizable gearbox it pulls hard

 

[suzq044]

The Speed12 .. too fast/powerful for it's own good, even TCS doesn't help. lol .. makes a decent drift car though.

 

[Lucas]

I was just being sarcastic, Mafs. Though in a way, I'm right about something: You are comparing the Evo VIII (which does not even appear in the 1/4 MILE TIMES Production Cars 4WD Top 15) to a Spec-C, which as all we know, is the fastest car in the 4WD category, so much that it has its own. I don't believe that's fair at all, don't you think? With that criteria, then every car in the game which is slower than another one is a piece of 🤬 And exactly, you were just comparing both with their 1/4 miles. Let's stop this right here.

suzq044, I haven't drove the Speed12 yet, but it really seems like a crappy car. The AI can't keep the tires from spinning in the Motegi Super Speedway

 

[MadMax]

Hi Jonn

I have drifven so many "bad" cars in the game that can't really deside where to start.

most dissappointing one I can remember for now is eagle talon @ Las Vegas drag strip.
The car's engine, powerband/grip is just a dissapointment. Just like in Eclipse'95 and Amuse Carbon R.



MadMax

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Is that a true story?

FRom Wikipedia:

[edit] 2J

The most unusual Chaparral was the 2J. In addition to a powerful 700 hp engine, and a three-speed semi automatic transmission, the back of the 2J housed two 17-inch fans driven by a 45 hp snowmobile engine. The Can Am Series had no engine size limit, so the two snowmobile engines weren't affected by an engine displacement maximum. The purpose of the fans was to 'suck' air from under the car to provide downforce. This gave the car tremendous gripping power and enabled greater maneuverability at all speeds, which cannot be achieved by simpler aerodynamic devices such as diffusers and wings. Since it created the same amount of vacuum under the car at all speeds, down-force did not decrease at lower speeds. With other aerodynamic devices, down-force decreases as the car slows down or achieves too much of a slip angle, both of which were not problems for the 'sucker car'. It also had ground effect Lexan-plastic skirts to keep air from leaking in, a technology that would appear in Formula One several years later. The 2J competed in the CanAm series and often qualified at least a couple of seconds quicker than the next fastest car, but was not a success because it was plagued with mechanical problems. It ran for only one racing season in 1970 after which it was outlawed by the SCCA (even though it was approved by the SCCA prior to the car's first race). The SCCA succumbed to pressure from other teams, McLaren in particular, who argued that the fans constituted 'movable aerodynamic devices' which were outlawed by the international sanctioning body FIA (which was first applied against the 2E's adjustable-wing). There were also complaints from other drivers saying that whenever they drove behind it the fans would throw stones at their cars. McLaren argued that if the 2J was not outlawed, it would likely kill the CanAm series by totally dominating it - ironically, something McLaren had been doing for years[1]. A similar suction fan was used in Formula 1 eight years later for the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix, by the Brabham BT46B but was banned soon after. The 2J is the other Chaparral to appear in Gran Turismo 4.


[edit] 2K

 

[Hyst]

The Speed 12 is an amazing car if you know how to tune it. The only problem once you get to that point is that you get to 300+ km/h so fast you always brake late. You think you're taking a corner or sweeper at a stable 160km/h but really you're doing 240.

 

[Watchman]

The Speed 12 is an amazing car if you know how to tune it. The only problem once you get to that point is that you get to 300+ km/h so fast you always brake late. You think you're taking a corner or sweeper at a stable 160km/h but really you're doing 240.

Yes, you're right.. The car is so crappy in stock, but tuned right, it's a real monster .. Also with the speeds: You get fast to enormous speed, but you brake too late and.. everyone knows what happens.. ..

 

[mafia_boy]

I was just being sarcastic, Mafs. Though in a way, I'm right about something: You are comparing the Evo VIII (which does not even appear in the 1/4 MILE TIMES Production Cars 4WD Top 15) to a Spec-C, which as all we know, is the fastest car in the 4WD category, so much that it has its own. I don't believe that's fair at all, don't you think? With that criteria, then every car in the game which is slower than another one is a piece of 🤬 And exactly, you were just comparing both with their 1/4 miles. Let's stop this right here.

No, we won't stop this right here because you lit the fuse and have gone off the assumption that I am talking about using nitrous and that's where you have stuffed up. I am talking about NO NITROUS. Get a Spec-C on the 1/4. It will run 9.2 all day without nitrous. Get an Evo on the 1/4. You will struggle to get a 9 without nitrous. Now, go and get a copy of GT3. The Evo was a second quicker than the STi on the 1/4, with the Evo 7 getting 10's and the STi in the 11's. THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT!!

I put in several examples and CLEARLY STATED that it was due to EITHER sprints or racing. Since you want to be so insistent on some sort of handling angle on your position, let's do it this way. I have won EVERY SINGLE EVENT IN SPECIAL CONDITIONS WITH A STOCK SPEC-C. The handling of the Spec-C compared to the Evo when it comes to these events smashes it.

And since we're going to compare the two, I'm going to take the cars to GVS and run them head to head. I'll be back with the results.

 

[Jonn 79]

According to reviews i seen the spec C in real life is really quick. Even the Evo 8 MR had trouble keeping up. That was probably the closest the two cars have ever been in my opinion. But i digress.

What's the result?

 

[mafia_boy]

I went all out with the Evo 8 first and been spending most of the day perfecting the setup. Done up completely with a Stage 5 turbo, giving 561hp & 680Nm, R5 tyres, the works. Time was 1.43.180.

The Spec C will be next up later on.

 

[Lucas]

Why do you have to make so much trouble out of it? I really don't understand you. Even more, your words don't mean nothing. You haven't still been able to prove this point: "Why should a car be called a piece of crap if there's another faster than it?" You haven't answered that yet, instead you are wasting your time comparing the Evo and the Spec-C in useless time trials. All that you seem to do is looking for trouble.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

uh oh..yikes *runs for cover*

 

[Jonn 79]

i thought it was a stock for stock comparison hehe. looks like we're in for a treat. you gonna post the setups hehehehehe?

 

[Lucas]

Yeah, a tuned comparison is not a comparison at all 👎

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yeah, a tuned comparison is not a comparison at all 👎

Yes it is.

To some extent, to me a stock vs stock comparison is worthless. Mostly because I don't keep the cars stock very long at all, and the difference between the two might become reversed fully tuned.

Lastly, I think Mafs' point is that the Evo is crap as despite it being expected to be good it gets destroyed by the Spec-C. Not just beaten, destroyed.

 

[Lucas]

But you are still saying the same thing as Mafs, with other words. No one has still being able to say why a car is crap if there's another faster than it. I don't care if it's in a higher category or the same. "The Evo VIII handles like a dream, looks great, beats a lot of cars. The Spec-C is even better. The Evo VIII is thus crap." I am not saying each and everyone of those points is 100% accurate. But there's something obviously wrong in that statement.

Remember also that the title is "Cars you thought GREAT but ended up being CRAP!". Crap because it wasn't able to beat the Spec-C? Then many cars are crap to me: Plymouth Barracuda, can't beat the Elise. Plymouth Superbird, can't beat the Elise. Every muscle car for that matter. But I still like them, though not love them, since I'm not a car fan by any means, since I know nothing about cars other than I have learned from the game.

EDIT: Just spent more time reading your post thoroughly, and this is what I came up with:

No, we won't stop this right here because you lit the fuse

1) I just pointed out that in your post, compared the Evo and the Spec-C in their quarter mile times. Prove me wrong, but in your original post, other than that claim, I don't see anything about handling. Take a note in my original post I did not say anything about the Alfa or any other car, other than those two. Read carefully.

and have gone off the assumption that I am talking about using nitrous and that's where you have stuffed up.

2) No. I have drove the Spec-C before, and I know how fast it is without nitrous. And I have a good enough especulation about how fast the Evo VIII may be. You are the one who has gone off the assumption that I included Nitrous in the equation, my friend.

Get a Spec-C on the 1/4. It will run 9.2 all day without nitrous. Get an Evo on the 1/4. You will struggle to get a 9 without nitrous. Now, go and get a copy of GT3. The Evo was a second quicker than the STi on the 1/4, with the Evo 7 getting 10's and the STi in the 11's. THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT!!

3) First of all, I don't like the use of caps lock in your post. I'm not a blind man by any means, so there's no need for it. Other than that, it seems that what you are trying to say is that the STi has evolved more than the Evolution, am I right? Good for it, but that still isn't a valid point to say that the Evolution sucks.

I put in several examples and CLEARLY STATED that it was due to EITHER sprints or racing.

4) And in those examples I didn't criticize you about anything. But I pointed out that in your post, all about comparing the Evo and the STi was clearly based on the Dragstrip. Or so you made it look like.

Since you want to be so insistent on some sort of handling angle on your position

5) Yes, it is called "Objectivity". Ever heard of it?

I have won EVERY SINGLE EVENT IN SPECIAL CONDITIONS WITH A STOCK SPEC-C. The handling of the Spec-C compared to the Evo when it comes to these events smashes it.

6) Congratulations! I never said the Evo was better than the Spec-C, but merely remarking the fact that a car can't be called crap just because one is faster than it in its category.

And since we're going to compare the two, I'm going to take the cars to GVS and run them head to head. I'll be back with the results.

7) If I knew you were going to do that, I would have told you "Don't even bother". I know the Spec-C is faster than the Evo. Still, you are not explaining why the Evo is a crap car. And you won't get any results from that test.

Look all that you made me write. I appreciate this as a way to increase my english's skills. Feel free to spot any spelling mistake. In the end, my friend, you were the one to lit the fuse.

Codename L

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Muscle cars are crap. And that is precisely why we love them.

The Evo is getting called crap here simply because it's not at the level expected of it; it simply doesn't have the magic it did in GT3.

 

[Lucas]

Congratulations, my friend
There's no need for an extensive post, when a good answer can be resumed to only one or two lines of text.
Once again, congratulations

But muscle sometimes is not as crap as you may think, as I pointed out with my example. Or it is, along with the Civic?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Hey, I love muscle cars too!

But I won't even try to deny how crap they are. They may have power but they can't get it to the ground, they can't corner, they cannot do anything right. Except be gigantic brutes rolling with lots of power and murdering tires.

 

[Lucas]

Sometimes I think the same. The wheelspin is just , but other than that, I really like them. Tuning them is starting to become a hobby of mine. But I enjoy driving them stock. If only every muscle car was able to be bought, then I would have a silver metallic Superbird and a red Dodge Charger Super Bee