Complete American Car List

[Omologato]

It's up your butt, with your head

 

[jays83gsl]

Aipex (SP?), you couldn't have said it better. Call me weird, but I prefer my 1.1 L myself. More classic, y'know?

 

[Swift]

Well, I'd still prefer a Japanese car to any of the American sports cars simply because the only American Sport types worth looking into (ie. Corvette, Viper, GTO UCK!!) are WAY too expensive, and they don't look as good in my own taste.

Uh, you can get a C6 for less then 50K and it'll hang with practically any car under 100K except for the viper.

Well, for people like you, there's Nascar sim racing which is due to come out soon from EA, and forza motorsports which is sure to have tons of american cars and fewer japanese cars (because lets face it, all you care about is the ratio of Japanese cars compared to the american cars. because in fact there's a LOT of american cars in allready.)

A lot of American cars? I'm not saying there's only a few. But considering there are what, 50 skylines in the game, a few variations of the American sports cars would've been nice too. It's not about being JDM only, it's about balance. There are a lot of American coupes that aren't in the game that really should be. I mean, they've got the brand new, not released Eclipse and BMW, but they can't get a C6? what's the situation with that?

Also, I don't believe it was a matter of time, since the did add on 12 more cars between the Japanese release date and the North American release date. I think it was more availibility then anything else.

 

[Spencer]

Uh, you can get a C6 for less then 50K and it'll hang with practically any car under 100K except for the viper.



A lot of American cars? I'm not saying there's only a few. But considering there are what, 50 skylines in the game, a few variations of the American sports cars would've been nice too. It's not about being JDM only, it's about balance. There are a lot of American coupes that aren't in the game that really should be. I mean, they've got the brand new, not released Eclipse and BMW, but they can't get a C6? what's the situation with that?

Also, I don't believe it was a matter of time, since the did add on 12 more cars between the Japanese release date and the North American release date. I think it was more availibility then anything else.

This is a stupid arguement. American cars are just fine. They are more reliable than alot of japanese cars and there is no way to compare japanese and american cars. Japan has not made a production supercar. They have to put twin-turbos to get any good amount of hp.

 

[flamingwonky]

This is a stupid arguement. American cars are just fine. They are more reliable than alot of japanese cars and there is no way to compare japanese and american cars. Japan has not made a production supercar. They have to put twin-turbos to get any good amount of hp.

Isn't this game about Japanese production supercars?

 

[Spencer]

Isn't this game about Japanese production supercars?

A lot of people don't consider Civics as supercars (including me). The only three Japanese supercars are the Skyline, 350Z, and the NSX compared to the Viper, S7, Vette, every Shelby, Ford GT, GT40 and a few others.

 

[flamingwonky]

GT isn't about Civics!! *scoff
It's about the great Japanese Touring cars (which may or may not be "supercars"):
GT-R, Supra, NSX, RX-7, Z, STi, 3000GT. Haven't you played Gran Turismo, man? These cars are the centerpiece.

 

[Swift]

This is a stupid arguement. American cars are just fine. They are more reliable than alot of japanese cars and there is no way to compare japanese and american cars. Japan has not made a production supercar. They have to put twin-turbos to get any good amount of hp.

Well, you and I seem to argee, so I don't think we were arguing. And you're right, the japanese don't have any original ideas, they just take others and make them different/better. It's too bad they don't have the big power cars without turbos and what not. That's why I like the C5 and C6 vettes. Lots of power and it's all NA!

 

[akhbhaat]

This is a stupid arguement. American cars are just fine. They are more reliable than alot of japanese cars and there is no way to compare japanese and american cars. Japan has not made a production supercar. They have to put twin-turbos to get any good amount of hp.

I beg to differ. The NSX, for one, is - or, at least, was - most certainly a production "supercar." Depending, of course, upon the definition you choose to acknowledge.

Regarding the twin-turbo engines: you first state that Japanese cars are not comparable to their American counterparts (though in what way you mean this remains unclear). You then go on to claim that the former cannot produce power without the use of forced induction. This appears to be an assertion of technological inferiority, but fails to account for very significant differences in design philsophy. Does anybody else recognize the flaws in this logic?

 

[Omologato]

So the NSX must use Lucky Charms to get all its power, same with the 350z, seeing as how they dont have a TT setup

LUCKY CHARMS ALL THE WAY

 

[Taneras]

This is a stupid arguement. American cars are just fine. They are more reliable than alot of japanese cars and there is no way to compare japanese and american cars. Japan has not made a production supercar. They have to put twin-turbos to get any good amount of hp.

The NSX is a supercar...

Whats this whole "twin turbo" comment? Since when is HP the only factor that wins races? I also would like for you to check out the 2005 Acura NSX pushing 290hp out of a N/A 3.2L engine.

Yea yea I know vets push more around 400, but look at how big their engines are

Don't get me wrong, I'd take a C6 over a NSX any day, but don't knock Japanese cars, their just as good.

 

[Onlyzone]

The NSX is a supercar...

Whats this whole "twin turbo" comment? Since when is HP the only factor that wins races? I also would like for you to check out the 2005 Acura NSX pushing 290hp out of a N/A 3.2L engine.

Yea yea I know vets push more around 400, but look at how big their engines are

Don't get me wrong, I'd take a C6 over a NSX any day, but don't knock Japanese cars, their just as good.

The C6's engines, the LS2 and LS7, are pushrod small blocks with 2 valves per cylinder. Not some DOHC engine. Big power out of older technology.

 

[fangorn_forest]

If Japanese cars need forced-induction to make power, please explain why the Honda S2000 makes 240hp from a naturally aspirated i4 while GM's 3800 V6, in supercharged form, makes only the same amount of power. Think about it, NA 2.0L i4 making as much power as a supercharged V6 with nearly twice the displacement. Also, since when are American cars more reliable than Japanese cars? Last time I looked, the best built cars in the indrustry came from Japanese automakers.

 

[Onlyzone]

If Japanese cars need forced-induction to make power, please explain why the Honda S2000 makes 240hp from a naturally aspirated i4 while GM's 3800 V6, in supercharged form, makes only the same amount of power. Think about it, NA 2.0L i4 making as much power as a supercharged V6 with nearly twice the displacement. Also, since when are American cars more reliable than Japanese cars? Last time I looked, the best built cars in the indrustry came from Japanese automakers.

The honda engine is a DOHC engine. The GM is a OHV. Two different technologies. Also you have the rev the heck out of the honda to make power.

 

[ChristmasGTO]

too bad they missed out on all the new models chevrolet and pontiac are introducing next year. and wheres the 98+ firebirds ( I dont want a camaro >: o )

You mean 98+ WS6 Trans AM Right?

 

[Zardoz]

From the official Sony GT4 web site:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover cars - the history of the automobile and its evolution to modern day vehicles. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, the vast expanse of automotive racing is at your fingertips."

Obviously, some corrections are needed to that paragraph. It should read:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover Japanese cars and a few others - the history of the Japanese automobile industry and its evolution to being really good at producing countless variations of the same car. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, a comprehensive study of the tight little world of the JGTC series and a cursory, perfunctory, disrespectful glance at all the other car racing that has ever taken place is at your fingertips."

For me, it's all about truth in advertising. We aren't getting what Sony says we're going to get.

Permit me to cite a few examples:

The NA car list contains, as best as I can tell after two counts, the following by-nation breakdown:

451 Japanese
90 German
62 American
40 British
29 Italian
29 French
5 Australian
5 Korean
2 Swedish
1 Dutch
1 Spanish

Is this "the history of the automobile" or is it "the history of the automobile from the point of view of a few guys who have a lot of very good, close friends in the Japanese automobile industry"? It's easy to visualize, isn't it? One of Kaz's buddies says "Hey Kaz, do you think you could put a (fill in the blank) in GT4? I had a dark blue one for a couple of years and I loved that car." Of course Kaz replies: "Oh, sure. I can do that for you." How else can you explain the presence of a lot of the cars that are on this list? This would explain the following, as well:

There 53 Skylines, but just three Mustangs and two Jaguar XKRs.

There are as many cars from "Amuse" as there are Aston-Martins. (Amuse? Amuse!?!?)

There are 24 Lancers, but no Saabs whatsoever.

There are 23 NSX variants, but a total of two Volvos.

There are 35 Mazda two-seat sports cars, but just one Triumph, and not one of the old MG two-seaters.

There are 12 Daihatsus, but not one Cadillac production car. The XLR, STS, CTS, and CTS-V aren't there.

There are 9 variations of the Subaru Legacy, but just one Jaguar sedan.

Personally, the game's treatment of the many racing series that are going on around the world is the most infuriating of all. Sony claims "the vast expanse of automobile racing is at your fingertips". Not quite. Here's what we're really getting:

23 JGTC (All-Japan GT Championship) cars

3 from the FIA World GT Championship, and all three of them are warm-overs from GT3. (PD couldn't even be bothered with updating the paint job on the C5R. That's just disrespect, folks, plain and simple.)

1 from the Australian V8 Supercar series, and even that one's a leftover from GT3.

0 from the Trans-Am series (Check out those bad boys at http://www.trans-amseries.com/Event/Photos.asp . Click on the 2004 events on the right for lots more. Ferocious Corvettes, Jags, and Mustangs. Maybe that's why they aren't in GT4.)

0 from the American Le Mans series.

0 from the British Touring Car Championship

0 from the SCCA SPEED GT series

0 from the Grand American series

Just one from the great old Can-Am series, and they had to pick the freak: The Chaparral sucker car that entered (and failed to finish) just two races.

Thank heaven they have a little respect for the German Touring Car Championship. At least we get a fair selection of those nice DTM cars. And its a good thing the Japanese manufacturers made so many attempts at winning the Le Mans 24-hour (pulling it off just once), or we wouldn't have many Prototypes to work with.

Somebody said I was "partial to U.S. cars". Not at all. My wife has a new Camry and I'm determined to put 200,000 miles on my '92 Accord. I'll replace it with a Matrix.

My point is that PD is not delivering on their promise. After this absurdly long wait, we deserve better than this. A beautiful re-creation of the Nurburgring is not enough.

 

[enricopalazzo]

What does any of this have to do with the American GT4 car list?

 

[Jmac279]

The C6's engines, the LS2 and LS7, are pushrod small blocks with 2 valves per cylinder. Not some DOHC engine. Big power out of older technology.

How is a pushrod engine "older" technology ?

The first Rotary engine was made in 1893 ...
The first SOHC engine was made in 1898 ...
The first DOHC engine was made in 1906 ...
The first OHV Pushrod engine was made in 1902 ...

WOW ! The DOHC design is only 99 years old and while the OHV Pushrod design is MUCH MUCH older at 103 years old !

And did you ever once think that it might be related to cost and design philosophy ?

According to Automotive News, GM applies most of the money it saves with simpler valvetrain technology to higher incentives and more standard features to enhance these vehicles' competitiveness. Both translate to more car per dollar, which makes the buyer's choice pretty clear: a more expensive engine or a higher feature load for equal money.

Also, Pushrods tend to be superior for low-RPM power, which is right in line with GM's design philosophy ...

 

[flyingdane]

From the official Sony GT4 web site:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover cars - the history of the automobile and its evolution to modern day vehicles. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, the vast expanse of automotive racing is at your fingertips."

Obviously, some corrections are needed to that paragraph. It should read:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover Japanese cars and a few others - the history of the Japanese automobile industry and its evolution to being really good at producing countless variations of the same car. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, a comprehensive study of the tight little world of the JGTC series and a cursory, perfunctory, disrespectful glance at all the other car racing that has ever taken place is at your fingertips."

For me, it's all about truth in advertising. We aren't getting what Sony says we're going to get.

Permit me to cite a few examples:

The NA car list contains, as best as I can tell after two counts, the following by-nation breakdown:

451 Japanese
90 German
62 American
40 British
29 Italian
29 French
5 Australian
5 Korean
2 Swedish
1 Dutch
1 Spanish

Is this "the history of the automobile" or is it "the history of the automobile from the point of view of a few guys who have a lot of very good, close friends in the Japanese automobile industry"? It's easy to visualize, isn't it? One of Kaz's buddies says "Hey Kaz, do you think you could put a (fill in the blank) in GT4? I had a dark blue one for a couple of years and I loved that car." Of course Kaz replies: "Oh, sure. I can do that for you." How else can you explain the presence of a lot of the cars that are on this list? This would explain the following, as well:

There 53 Skylines, but just three Mustangs and two Jaguar XKRs.

There are as many cars from "Amuse" as there are Aston-Martins. (Amuse? Amuse!?!?)

There are 24 Lancers, but no Saabs whatsoever.

There are 23 NSX variants, but a total of two Volvos.

There are 35 Mazda two-seat sports cars, but just one Triumph, and not one of the old MG two-seaters.

There are 12 Daihatsus, but not one Cadillac production car. The XLR, STS, CTS, and CTS-V aren't there.

There are 9 variations of the Subaru Legacy, but just one Jaguar sedan.

Personally, the game's treatment of the many racing series that are going on around the world is the most infuriating of all. Sony claims "the vast expanse of automobile racing is at your fingertips". Not quite. Here's what we're really getting:

23 JGTC (All-Japan GT Championship) cars

3 from the FIA World GT Championship, and all three of them are warm-overs from GT3. (PD couldn't even be bothered with updating the paint job on the C5R. That's just disrespect, folks, plain and simple.)

1 from the Australian V8 Supercar series, and even that one's a leftover from GT3.

0 from the Trans-Am series (Check out those bad boys at http://www.trans-amseries.com/Event/Photos.asp . Click on the 2004 events on the right for lots more. Ferocious Corvettes, Jags, and Mustangs. Maybe that's why they aren't in GT4.)

0 from the American Le Mans series.

0 from the British Touring Car Championship

0 from the SCCA SPEED GT series

0 from the Grand American series

Just one from the great old Can-Am series, and they had to pick the freak: The Chaparral sucker car that entered (and failed to finish) just two races.

Thank heaven they have a little respect for the German Touring Car Championship. At least we get a fair selection of those nice DTM cars. And its a good thing the Japanese manufacturers made so many attempts at winning the Le Mans 24-hour (pulling it off just once), or we wouldn't have many Prototypes to work with.

Somebody said I was "partial to U.S. cars". Not at all. My wife has a new Camry and I'm determined to put 200,000 miles on my '92 Accord. I'll replace it with a Matrix.

My point is that PD is not delivering on their promise. After this absurdly long wait, we deserve better than this. A beautiful re-creation of the Nurburgring is not enough.

You are absolutely RIGHT

 

[enricopalazzo]

Just so you know, the R8, Bentley Speed 8(in Sebring), the Panoz, the Dell BMW LMR, the Courage(in LMP2 form), the CLK GTR(IMSA), the C5R, Viper and M3GTR all raced in the ALMS at one time.

 

[Jmac279]

If Japanese cars need forced-induction to make power, please explain why the Honda S2000 makes 240hp from a naturally aspirated i4 while GM's 3800 V6, in supercharged form, makes only the same amount of power. Think about it, NA 2.0L i4 making as much power as a supercharged V6 with nearly twice the displacement. Also, since when are American cars more reliable than Japanese cars? Last time I looked, the best built cars in the indrustry came from Japanese automakers.

And what is the age difference ?

IIRC, the 3800 V6 was used in the Chevrolet Camaro starting in 1995 ... The current 2.2 liter, 240 hp S2000 engine came out this year (although the original 2 liter also made 240 hp in 1999) ...

Now also take into account that the 3800 V6 was the "ghetto" engine of the Camaro ... Then take into account that the S2000 is a SPORTS CAR and the vehicles in which the 3800 are currently found are definitely not (Monte Carlo, Impala, Grand Prix, Bonneville, LeSabre, LaCrosse) ... In these cars, GM isn't so much concerned about making the most power possible, but making a decently powerful, comfortable vehicle ...

 

[Jmac279]

American cars are just fine. They are more reliable than alot of japanese cars

Evidence ?

Because every major reliability database seems to disagree with you (Consumer Reports, Lemon-Aid, J.D. Power, etc.)

 

[Cluns1414]

Zardoz......You're my hero. Plain and simple, now if you could just copy and paste that in an E-mail to P.D.

 

[Grand Prix]

F1 is a lot like Soccer. Overtaking or scoring only happens about once or twice per event. "Boring" due to lack of scoring.

NASCAR and IRL are a lot like Basketball, the scoring comes often, but to the point where a score is completly worthless, as there are thousands more like it. "Boring" due to repetitiveness.

CART and ALMS are a happy medium, like Ice Hockey. Scoring is difficult, but happens just often enough to keep an average viewer attentive, while still providing suspense.


Now, let's get back on topic.

True, GT4 doesn't exactly represent the history of the automobile. But aside from Grand Prix Legends, what other game does? As far as I know, GT4 is the only current game that has the Chapparals, an Auto Union, a Benz patent wagen, and the Model T Ford. A 1890's Panhard or Bugatti 35 would have helped, but this is by far the most history oriented racing game (exception: Grand Prix Legends) out there. 👍

 

[enricopalazzo]

What's Hockey?

 

[exitspeed]

Damn they took out the Sileighty!!!!!! I'm pissed! Thats cool they added the 2--6 Eclipse though

 

[Jmac279]

Damn they took out the Sileighty!!!!!! I'm pissed! Thats cool they added the 2--6 Eclipse though

No they didn't, they just placed it at the bottom of the list instead of with the rest of the Nissans for some odd reason ...

 

[Grand Prix]

What's Hockey?

A game like Soccer where players use "sticks" to hit a ball into a net. It is often played on a grass field.

 

[RUSSIATURISMO]

Here's a post from another forum someone did a chart and attached an excel sprdsht with the car data pasted.



http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1837730&page=2

http://homepage.mac.com/kapellusch/Misc_hostings/GT4Cars.xls

 

[cudadude2]

From the official Sony GT4 web site:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover cars - the history of the automobile and its evolution to modern day vehicles. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, the vast expanse of automotive racing is at your fingertips."

Obviously, some corrections are needed to that paragraph. It should read:

"Gran Turismo 4 is a journey to discover Japanese cars and a few others - the history of the Japanese automobile industry and its evolution to being really good at producing countless variations of the same car. From the Model T Ford to today's state-of-the-art Formula 1 racers, a comprehensive study of the tight little world of the JGTC series and a cursory, perfunctory, disrespectful glance at all the other car racing that has ever taken place is at your fingertips."

For me, it's all about truth in advertising. We aren't getting what Sony says we're going to get.

Permit me to cite a few examples:

The NA car list contains, as best as I can tell after two counts, the following by-nation breakdown:

451 Japanese
90 German
62 American
40 British
29 Italian
29 French
5 Australian
5 Korean
2 Swedish
1 Dutch
1 Spanish

Is this "the history of the automobile" or is it "the history of the automobile from the point of view of a few guys who have a lot of very good, close friends in the Japanese automobile industry"? It's easy to visualize, isn't it? One of Kaz's buddies says "Hey Kaz, do you think you could put a (fill in the blank) in GT4? I had a dark blue one for a couple of years and I loved that car." Of course Kaz replies: "Oh, sure. I can do that for you." How else can you explain the presence of a lot of the cars that are on this list? This would explain the following, as well:

There 53 Skylines, but just three Mustangs and two Jaguar XKRs.

There are as many cars from "Amuse" as there are Aston-Martins. (Amuse? Amuse!?!?)

There are 24 Lancers, but no Saabs whatsoever.

There are 23 NSX variants, but a total of two Volvos.

There are 35 Mazda two-seat sports cars, but just one Triumph, and not one of the old MG two-seaters.

There are 12 Daihatsus, but not one Cadillac production car. The XLR, STS, CTS, and CTS-V aren't there.

There are 9 variations of the Subaru Legacy, but just one Jaguar sedan.

Personally, the game's treatment of the many racing series that are going on around the world is the most infuriating of all. Sony claims "the vast expanse of automobile racing is at your fingertips". Not quite. Here's what we're really getting:

23 JGTC (All-Japan GT Championship) cars

3 from the FIA World GT Championship, and all three of them are warm-overs from GT3. (PD couldn't even be bothered with updating the paint job on the C5R. That's just disrespect, folks, plain and simple.)

1 from the Australian V8 Supercar series, and even that one's a leftover from GT3.

0 from the Trans-Am series (Check out those bad boys at http://www.trans-amseries.com/Event/Photos.asp . Click on the 2004 events on the right for lots more. Ferocious Corvettes, Jags, and Mustangs. Maybe that's why they aren't in GT4.)

0 from the American Le Mans series.

0 from the British Touring Car Championship

0 from the SCCA SPEED GT series

0 from the Grand American series

Just one from the great old Can-Am series, and they had to pick the freak: The Chaparral sucker car that entered (and failed to finish) just two races.

Thank heaven they have a little respect for the German Touring Car Championship. At least we get a fair selection of those nice DTM cars. And its a good thing the Japanese manufacturers made so many attempts at winning the Le Mans 24-hour (pulling it off just once), or we wouldn't have many Prototypes to work with.

Somebody said I was "partial to U.S. cars". Not at all. My wife has a new Camry and I'm determined to put 200,000 miles on my '92 Accord. I'll replace it with a Matrix.

My point is that PD is not delivering on their promise. After this absurdly long wait, we deserve better than this. A beautiful re-creation of the Nurburgring is not enough.

very, very well put. i gonna use a part of this quote in my Sig, thanks.

b