Cote D'Azur track scale

[TenEightyOne]

My guess is that they didn't want to add one more country to the list,
and because Monaco is really not a country... it's a principauty (a land rule by a Prince)... so to defined it/categorize it as a country would not be entire correct.

But in the same way many people accept Great Britain as a country when it isn't, although the United Kingdom is... but so are the two countries, one province and a principality inside it. Country definitions are difficult. Monaco is legally recognised as a feudal principality and therefore a country - it's just that defnining countries is a complex task.

Your guess about the country list is way off I'm afraid. The rights to the image and name of the Monaco track are expensive and highly sought after.

PD created a fictional track set in France (whose southern coast includes the western edge of the area known as Le Cote D'Azur)... that track looked remarkably like the Monagasque F1 track of the day - but it WASN'T!!! The track was an homage to the Monaco GP circuit without a doubt but it was substantially and severably different.

That's important for licensing reasons.

 

[georgiebest]

Got to wonder why they put a little "France" flagblob next to it then, really.

Facepalm.

Monaco does not have a national flag which is recognised in the international community as a "national flag". The "national flag of monaco" is actually only used for Civil purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Monaco

Therefore the official "national flag" for Monaco that would be international recognised by other countries would be the French flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France

This is similar to how Isle of Man has its own civil flag, but uses the union jack for all intensive purposes.

Gotta make you think why some people go to school then, really.

 

[Famine]

Facepalm.

Monaco does not have a national flag which is recognised in the international community as a "national flag". The "national flag of monaco" is actually only used for Civil purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Monaco

Therefore the official "national flag" for Monaco that would be international recognised by other countries would be the French flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France

I wonder what the official national flag for Polyphony is for them to plonk that next to SSR5 and SSR7 then.

Gotta make you think why some people go to school, really.

Gave that up years ago, squire.

But if you want to imagine up a whole bunch of reasons why there's not a Monegasque blob next to Cote d'Azur without any supporting evidence, when licensing covers all known bases already, there's not a lot anyone can say to dissuade you. Got to love a good speculate, eh?

While you're busy speculating and attempting to patronise, go have a squizz at what flag Wikipedia (your source) uses for the Monaco Grand Prix over the years.

 

[georgiebest]

Double facepalm.

SSR5 and SSR7 do not have a flag, they have a little emblem (as opposed to leaving it blank) which basically tells you it was made up by Polyphony and is not meant to be representing a real country/place.

You cannot really licence a flag. I was merely pointing out why the French flag was used.

I'm beginning to wonder if you even went to school in the first place.

How about you stop trolling and accept you are wrong. I'm not replying any more, I suggest you do the same, and save yourself more embarrassment.

 

[Famine]

You cannot really licence a flag.

The City of Siena certainly believes you can.

I was merely pointing out why the French flag was used.

No, you were pointing out why you think the French flag was used. Your speculation isn't relevant, since licencing covers all the bases already - say that your Monaco-looking track is in Monaco when you don't have the licence to use the real one and you open yourself to litigation.

I'm beginning to wonder if you even went to school in the first place.

Looks like I didn't attend the same one you did, that's for sure.

Incidentally, if the Wikipedia article on the race and track aren't sufficient international recognition for the flag of Monaco for you, give the United Nations a whirl.

Take your time.

How about you stop trolling and accept you are wrong. I'm not replying any more, I suggest you do the same, and save yourself more embarrassment.

New member decides he is right, is shown evidence that he is wrong, determines that he's still right, attempts to insult a site admin twice regarding intelligence (same site admin having won every iteration bar one of "Most Knowledgeable Member" in annual GTP Awards) and then takes his ball home claiming trolling.

Oh, if only I had a fiver for every time that'd happened in the past. I might be able to afford that Flags of the World book.

 

[TenEightyOne]

New member decides he is right, is shown evidence that he is wrong, determines that he's still right, attempts to insult a site admin twice regarding intelligence (same site admin having won every iteration bar one of "Most Knowledgeable Member" in annual GTP Awards) and then takes his ball home claiming trolling.

Oh, if only I had a fiver for every time that'd happened in the past. I might be able to afford that Flags of the World book.

Asides from the fact that you control the entry list for that competition... I'd like to see georgiebest have just a little more rope

This might be good time to vaguely remember my favourite George Best quote. When asked where all his money had gone he said "Most of it went on booze, women and cars. The rest I just wasted..."

Back on-topic; georgiebest's link to the Monaco Flag Wiki actually disagrees with his own argument; it's referred to as the National Flag and goes on to link references to Monaco as an independent sovereignty since 1861... bad luck, georgie

While PD's attempt at paraphrasing the Monaco track into the game may seem childishly obvious and ham-fisted they've got away with it for years and have clearly done so without any significant opposition.

 

[georgiebest]

Wow. Just Wow.

I know I said I wasn't going to reply. But this is actually a joke.

The City of Siena certainly believes you can.

You are seriously quoting the UN website? Possibly one of the worst international organisations? I could section off my garden, give it a flag (copyrighted of course) and then ask for admission to the UN and get accepted as a new country. Clearly i'm going "ott" before you start quoting and trying to disprove that. I'm merely making a point about how everyone can get into the UN. Regardless, been in the UN has nothing to do with having a National Flag that is recognised by the international community.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that although many countries have flags that they call "national flags", their use is not actually as a National flag in the international community sense, it is used merely as civil purposes in the case of Monaco. I fail to see how you cannot grasp this, although I'm beginning to expect less and less of you as this discussion goes on.

New member decides he is right, is shown evidence that he is wrong, determines that he's still right, attempts to insult a site admin twice regarding intelligence (same site admin having won every iteration bar one of "Most Knowledgeable Member" in annual GTP Awards) and then takes his ball home claiming trolling.

Sorry, I did not realise I was dealing with the human incarnation of the fountain of knowledge. How could I have been so foolish to challenge you, you faultless creature you. How could someone who wins most knowledgeable member ever be wrong? I mean the true greats of all time such as Einstein and Newton have made mistakes, but you? of course not, no chance of mistake. The word mistake doesn't even exist in your universe!!!!!111

 

[KingSakery]

There is a reason behind the Track name: Cote d'Azur.

That is the point. PD didn´t get the FIA-License (or Monaco´s) to porper conditions.
=> they did what Famine pointed out.

PS: Monaco´s Flag is Monaco´s Flag, they don´t use the French one.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Wow. Just Wow.

I know I said I wasn't going to reply. But this is actually a joke.

You're bringing it upon yourself.

You stated that a flag cannot be copyrighted; it can. International law allows anyone to claim the rights to an image and to seek judicial reviews of the use and ownership of that image any context.

You stated that the Monagasque flag wasn't a proper national flag; you then linked to the Wiki which said it was... the page subsequently linked to another Wiki which explained why.

Famine was being sarcastic and trying to keep the tone of the thread in the realms of light debate. It seems that he may have wasted his efforts in that regard.

The UN definition of a country is one that binds the world; if you disagree with it personally then that's your right. The UN would actually support you in that.

At the end of this several salient facts remain;

* PD don't hold the rights to include a Monaco named-and-badged track in their game. They have created a track which clearly apes the general world location (and the general layout) of a famous real-world street circuit. The circuit in the game is Pretending.

* Monaco really DOES have it's own flag and, rather like the UK, has a number of sub-flags for use in varying state contexts.

* Monaco is recognised under treaty as a nation. Its flag is recognised in that context. It has the same nation rights as Wales or Northern Ireland; neither of those are literally a country but both are accepted as countries; their flags are accepted in that context.

* Ice. It can be thinner than you might at first think

* Defining countries is difficult; not all nations are the same. United Kingdom is a country despite having no single parliament and no single legislature. It contains four countries; Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Iresland. Wales is a Principality (nominally ruled by the Prince of Wales), Northern Ireland is a province, England and Scotland are countries in the traditional definition albeit each with their own legislature and parliament. Perhaps you should have opposed Ban-Ki-Moon recently?

 

[boshuter]

I'm not replying any more,

Please, for everyone's sake, live up to that promise.

 

[Famine]

The word mistake doesn't even exist in your universe!!!!!111

Oh it does. Here's a few:

You cannot really licence a flag.

Reality: City of Siena threatens legal action over use of flags in GT5 "Piazza del Campo" track. Track is removed from the game.

Monaco does not have a national flag which is recognised in the international community as a "national flag". The "national flag of monaco" is actually only used for Civil purposes.

Therefore the official "national flag" for Monaco that would be international recognised by other countries would be the French flag.

(sic)

Reality: The international communities of which Monaco is a member use the Monegasque flag when referring to Monaco. Which you reject because the UN doesn't meet your own personal specifications for an international community...

I'm not replying any more

Reality: See above.


There are many extra possibilities as to why PD used the French flag in lieu of the Monegasque one. Perhaps PD are idiots and had no idea Monaco even had its own flag - it's not like the UN even recognises it, after all. Perhaps they'd never watched the Monaco Grand Prix at the Monaco circuit and seen the Monaco flags, or looked on Wikipedia, like you did, to see that the Monegasque flag is attached to the event rather than the French one. I'm sure there's others but, and here's the key, they are irrelevant even if they are also true.

Licensing prevents PD from showing the Monaco GP track. This means that they are prevented from showing the circuit outline, they are prevented from copying the track and they are prevented from referring to it by name. They cannot pretend, in any way, that the track they include that is "inspired by" the real track is actually the real track and this includes pretending that it's in the same place, and being in a very small place helps them out here - they can just move it. Any further reasons why they got the flag "wrong" are further reasons, not substitute ones.


Remember the Piazza del Campo example above? That track was complete and in the game. I've driven it, along with thousands of others, in a pre-release demo. It was removed entirely after legal action was threatened over some flags.

Of course, nothing will dissuade you from your course, hilariously packed as it is with massive aggression and attempts at patronising others (neither of which are conducive to a lengthy membership), but in turn your argument will not alter the reality of the issue however much you wish it would.

 

[ScouserInExile]

[The Dude]
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.
[/The Dude]

 

[tho]

As everyone know it is really the Monaco circuit, PD doesn't own the rights to it so they had to change the name and the track slightly so they didn't get into any lawsuit trouble.

 

[tho]

[The Dude]
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.
[/The Dude]

8 year olds dude

 

[Robin]

Just out of interest how accurate is the F1 2010 game version of Monaco compared to GT5 (ignoring the obvious differences such as the pit entrance etc).

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just out of interest how accurate is the F1 2010 game version of Monaco compared to GT5 (ignoring the obvious differences such as the pit entrance etc).

Much more accurate (barrier glitches aside).

The PD version of Not-Monaco (Non-aco?) is more like the nineties F1 layout.

 

[Hypergolem]

Since everybody seems to know everything here, just FYI it is spelled Monegasque and not Monaguesque as everybody is using in here...

 

[Famine]

He was kidding:

It's monagesque rather than Monagasque.

As in "like Monaco" rather than "of Monaco".

 

[Hypergolem]

He was kidding:



As in "like Monaco" rather than "of Monaco".

Anyways both wrong... Monegasque is correct! Amen!

 

[Famine]

Yeah, but it was funny if nothing else.

(shouldn't it have an acute accent on the "e" anyway? )

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yeah, but it was funny if nothing else.

(shouldn't it have an acute accent on the "e" anyway? )

Actually, yes, it should be "Monégasque"... I had to copy/paste that because my work laptop struggles with anything outside the normal alphabet

I think the "Monaco"/"Monégasque" always confuses my ageing hardened brain!

 

[ferhound]

Its like Monaco anyway.

 

[JacklegJack]

Facepalm.

Monaco does not have a national flag which is recognised in the international community as a "national flag". The "national flag of monaco" is actually only used for Civil purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Monaco

Therefore the official "national flag" for Monaco that would be international recognised by other countries would be the French flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France

This is similar to how Isle of Man has its own civil flag, but uses the union jack for all intensive purposes.

Gotta make you think why some people go to school then, really.

I hate to beat a dead horse here, but do you really think PD used the French flag simply because of whatever technicalities are involved with the international acceptance of the Monaco state flag (or whatever nonsense you were going on about)? Let's be serious here, PD didn't have the rights, end of. I really doubt the dev team sat around debating which flag of Monaco is internationally recognised by other sovereign nations, hahaha. Or maybe they did, and that's why it took so many years to settle that argument and release the game.

Unfortunately for georgiebest they don't teach common sense in school.

 

[georgiebest]

If that is the reason then why would they not put the Monaco flag? The copy right restrictions are on the track and city, not the countries flag.

As i've said before, a Country cannot copy right its own flag. Your "point" about Sienna is absolute void, their not trying to copy right the national flag, they are trying to copyright a symbol of a specific part of the city, there is a big difference. It is like the London Olympics are copyrighted for advertisement, but the English flag cannot be copyrighted.

That was my point, and it is correct. Regardless of what the infallible monster says.

Famine, let me try to put this into context for you. You are wrong. <- that's the clearest I can make it for you.

You know the reason the UN uses the Monaco flag as opposed to the French flag, which would be the correct national flag? Because it would be too confusing for some imbeciles, namely you, to have 2 flags exactly the same for different countries. That is the sole reason. That doesn't make Monaco's flag a National flag, it is still a civil flag.

Here is a good example for you, Northern Irelands National flag is the Union jack. However, for almost all purposes, they identify themselves with the Ulster flag, their civil flag, for easier identification.

I just don't get it. I really don't. For someone who claims to be the "Moost interligernt pursun on teh forumz" you sure have a good knack for not understanding things clear as day. The fact that you won that "glorious award" leads me to have doubts about the competence of the voters/members of the forum.

If you look at my post I said "I know I said I'm not replying, but this is just a joke." As in your "argument", your "points" and your "conclusion" are an absolute joke, to the point where is it no longer funny.

Remember the Piazza del Campo example above? That track was complete and in the game. I've driven it, along with thousands of others, in a pre-release demo. It was removed entirely after legal action was threatened over some flags.

Sienna was not removed for containing the Italian flag? Was it removed for containing a National flag? No, the gist of that article you posted was talking about how a certain part of the section of the track contained copyrighted symbols of the city.

I would like to see you, or anyone for that matter, try to copy right an actual national flag, such as the French/Spanish/German flag.

And to whoever said that the link I gave disagreed with my post. No, it doesn't. It actually says the National flag of Monaco is used for civil purposes. It does not say it is used as a National flag. It is independent of Frances government, that does not mean the national flag is any different. Again refer to the example I've given about northern Ireland, it is pretty much the same context.

 

[djchon661]

I believe this thread should have been closed 2 pages ago. It is totally within reason to accept the argument of licensing as to why the tracks are different. The OP has been addressed. This argument on flags seems to be of no use other than to troll or insult.

 

[georgiebest]

^ agreed . So I'm perplexed as to why the very Admin in the "argument" did not stop commenting when I said/lock the topic long ago.

 

[Famine]

If that is the reason then why would they not put the Monaco flag? The copy right restrictions are on the track and city, not the countries flag.

"Copyright" and "country's".

The reasons have been explained. You still don't need to invent additional reasons of your own, claim everyone else is wrong after having your inaccuracies pointed out to you and continue posting barely concealed drivel several hours after you first flounced out of the thread.

As i've said before, a Country cannot copy right its own flag.

"Copyright". No-one said that they could.

Your "point" about Sienna is absolute void, their not trying to copy right the national flag, they are trying to copyright a symbol of a specific part of the city, there is a big difference.

"Siena", "they're" and "Copyright".

The legal issue was not over the part of the city being displayed but over the flags displayed signifying the Palio di Siena event. The request was to remove the flags. PD's response was to remove the track.

It is like the London Olympics are copyrighted for advertisement, but the English flag cannot be copyrighted.

That was my point, and it is correct.

No it wasn't. Your point was that the Cote d'Azur track isn't "in France" despite displaying the French flag blob next to it in the game. It was explained why, for legal reasons, this was purposely done and not accidentally. You rejected them, abusively and aggressively. You still are - and are trying to change your argument to suit.

You know the reason the UN uses the Monaco flag as opposed to the French flag, which would be the correct national flag? Because it would be too confusing for some imbeciles, namely you, to have 2 flags exactly the same for different countries. That is the sole reason. That doesn't make Monaco's flag a National flag, it is still a civil flag.

I shall requote to you your statement of fact, since you appear to have forgotten it:

Monaco does not have a national flag which is recognised in the international community as a "national flag". The "national flag of monaco" is actually only used for Civil purposes.

Therefore the official "national flag" for Monaco that would be international recognised by other countries would be the French flag.

The UN - the leading international community, of which Monaco is a member state - recognises the Monegasque flag as the flag of Monaco. This flag is, thus, recognised in the international community as the flag of Monaco.

Here is a good example for you, Northern Irelands National flag is the Union jack. However, for almost all purposes, they identify themselves with the Ulster flag, their civil flag, for easier identification.

Northern Ireland does not have a flag which is recognised by "the international community" that you cite. At best it is recognised by FIFA.

I just don't get it. I really don't.

This is quite evident.

For someone who claims to be the "Moost interligernt pursun on teh forumz" you sure have a good knack for not understanding things clear as day.

I've never claimed any such thing. However this won't prevent you from pretending otherwise.

The fact that you won that "glorious award" leads me to have doubts about the competence of the voters/members of the forum.

What have you brought to the table to give the voters/members of this forum (of which you are one) cause to reconsider their opinions? Aside from a massively aggressive stance that you are absolutely correct despite being contradicted by your own sources on every level of your... "argument"... and a fairly weak stream of insults, not a lot.

Sienna was not removed for containing the Italian flag? Was it removed for containing a National flag? No, the gist of that article you posted was talking about how a certain part of the section of the track contained copyrighted symbols of the city.

"Siena". Reading the actual words, rather than some you've made up, will reveal that the legal issue was over certain flags hanging from buildings. You'll note that the location is still available in Photomode, without those flags, but the track is now absent.

And to whoever said that the link I gave disagreed with my post. No, it doesn't. It actually says the National flag of Monaco is used for civil purposes. It does not say it is used as a National flag. It is independent of Frances government, that does not mean the national flag is any different. Again refer to the example I've given about northern Ireland, it is pretty much the same context.

"Whomever", "France's" and "Northern". Monaco is a member of the UN and the Monegasque flag is used by them. Northern Ireland is not and the Ulster flag is not recognised by any institution more senior than a sporting body. I'd also like you to re-read this sentence back to yourself:

It actually says the National flag of Monaco is used for civil purposes. It does not say it is used as a National flag.

Since you now have a week's ban for your continued insulting behaviour, you'll get plenty of time to read it back and forth - and the Acceptable Use Policy while you're at it.

^ agreed . So I'm perplexed as to why the very Admin in the "argument" did not stop commenting when I said/lock the topic long ago.

We are not hear to perform tasks at your fiat and nor are we here to let abusive members attempt to bully falsehoods into fact.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Looking at the argument in this thread I don't think certain people understand 'quit while you're ahead' or 'live and let live'

 

[djchon661]

^ agreed . So I'm perplexed as to why the very Admin in the "argument" did not stop commenting when I said/lock the topic long ago.

I don't think he understands I was referring to him when I mention troll/insults.

And if he did understand that then I'm glad he agreed with me but wish he would have already quit posting.

 

[TenEightyOne]

This is a bit like Father Ted, Father Dougal and the toy cow in the caravan.

"Small... (points out of window)... Far Away..."

If that is the reason then why would they not put the Monaco flag? The copy right restrictions are on the track and city, not the countries flag.

The track in GT5 is NOT Monaco. It's Cote d'Azur and it's in France. It actually looks quite a bit like the Monaco landscape and layout, doesn't it?

You refer to the copyright (one word), I guess you're effectively talking about the licence to use the Monaco GP layout. Using the country's (singular possesive) flag would be tantamount to declaring that the Cote d'Azur layout is somehow representative of the real-world circuit. Without the correct licence that would be difficult for PD to get away with.

They've used the Pretend Track in France solution for years now. The track returned in GT5 therefore I think it's reasonable to assume that either PD haven't been challenged by the Principality on the issue or that if they have been challenged the issue was resolved in such a way that PD could continue with the Pretend Track Not Monaco No Siree.

Copyright a flag? Anyone can claim legal ownership of any image and effect a ban on its use by specified or unspecified third parties. For that to happen they have to convince a court that

a) They are indeed the owner or custodian of an image or design
b) The image is being used in a way that breaches their rights, permissions or other relevant sensibilities
c) The image is being used to garner royalties for a third party without permission
d) Such action is enforceable

Point (d) is important. If someone's using your image on t-shirts in Kenya then you're unlikely to stop them and a court probably wouldn't bother to hear your case. You'd be able to stop them being imported/sold in the court's jurisdiction but that's about it.

PD is a big, famous target in a country that is part of various international copyright (one word) agreements. That effectively means that they have to license every single image/name contained in their publications because legal action against PD's perceived misuse of copyrights would be eminently enforceable.

Code, graphics, software engines, car images, car names, museum photos, track names, track graphics and so on. Those are all licensed - either because PD themselves hold the licence (in terms of IP) or licensed from the third party owner.

What's relevant here though isn't the copyright ownership of the Monaco flag (or the copyrighting of flags per se); it's the fact that use of that flag would imply that the Cote d'Azur track is in Monaco... and PD would suddenly be in a lot of trouble.

For goodness' sake, read the replies in this thread and give it up!