Engine Swap / Drivetrain Swap

[Exorcet]

on the note of drivetrain swaps I think those should be limited to If the cars has a variant with a drivetrain that is different (for example: Skyline GT-S getting the GT-R's AWD)

Why? That makes it pointless, and does not do anything for realism.

You should be able to do whatever. Even something as ridiculous as a FWD Zonda.

 

[Tornado]

I don't see how keeping you from adding AWD to anything and everything makes it pointless. In real life short of turning a car into a tubed frame silhouette because you had to chop out most of the interior there are some cars that you cannot adapt to different drivetrains from stock. Granted, the limits should be somewhat higher than "had an AWD version in real life" (I'd say at the very least allow AWD on cars that had AWD in some form on that platform, like the recent Civic not having AWD anymore but the CRV being based off of the platform), but it isn't an all or nothing scenario regardless.

 

[Exorcet]

I said it would be pointless because then you would just be making the second model of that car, at least for a lot of cases. But I guess there is no guarantee both would be in the game in first place.

I'm also very much for turning a car into a shell if it's a necessary for a certain modification, though I'd also like lesser levels of redesign.

 

[RodSk8Dude]

I didn't really read all comments here to know if someone said this before, but here it goes:

Engine swap by engine size. Not every little detail of it taken into account though, just it's maximum width, height and lenght. And if you wanted, you could change the hood for one that allows for a little more space, thus allowing some other bigger engines.
Maybe you could have a modification for some cars to allow more space (like removing rear seats for RR cars). See this VW Beetle for an example.

 

[TwistyDrift]

I didn't really read all comments here to know if someone said this before, but here it goes:

Engine swap by engine size. Not every little detail of it taken into account though, just it's maximum width, height and lenght. And if you wanted, you could change the hood for one that allows for a little more space, thus allowing some other bigger engines.
Maybe you could have a modification for some cars to allow more space (like removing rear seats for RR cars). See this VW Beetle for an example.

I agree, to be honest I love Forza 4 car customization; it's astonoshing. This is like sorta Forza customization.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

I had an idea while in another thread. A Renault Avantime with either a Ferrari F1 or FGT engine and chassis. As near as makes no difference it's the Espace F1 from GT2!

Out of interest, who merged my thread with the older one? Normally there's a post saying thread merged etc.

 

[VXR]

I've often suggested Forza would benefit from generic crate engines, which would then only be offered if the engine fit the recipient car, so I reckon it would be perfect for GT as well.

 

[Giygas]

I've often suggested Forza would benefit from generic crate engines, which would then only be offered if the engine fit the recipient car, so I reckon it would be perfect for GT as well.

This would do really well, unfortunately some cars don't have quite a large enough engine bay to truly benefit. Didn't VW nearly rearrange the insides of the Golf in their attempt to create an R36? Or am i mistaken?

But to add on to that idea, PD could create their own crate engine for use ingame, for smaller cars like the Cappucino, or just for someone who's looking for a generic, solid engine for an older car.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Why? That makes it pointless, and does not do anything for realism.

You should be able to do whatever. Even something as ridiculous as a FWD Zonda.

Yeah....no. Totally don't agree with that.

 

[Exorcet]

And what's wrong with it?

 

[Downhill Dino]

That's not even physically possible though due to a Zonda's structure, right?

 

[Exorcet]

That's not even physically possible though due to a Zonda's structure, right?

It would require extensive modification most likely, but in principle it's very possible. One method might be placing electric motors in the front wheels themselves and then filling the trunk and what used to the engine with batteries which could give you more flexibility with packaging.

I think ideally we should be able to do anything. The catch is, it must be realistically modeled. If PD can't model a chassis down to the finest detail (which they probably can't) then they can start adding in limits. I'm against limits for the sake of limits though. That makes no sense.

 

[Downhill Dino]

That's quite much to expect out of any car game.

 

[Exorcet]

Modeling every detail of the chassis? Yes. (Well no. It might be too much for GT5, but for any racer in general? Not impossible. It's not a racer, but the same thing applies, read through this manual http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/dcs-p-51d_flight_manual_en/)

Figuring out a FWD Zonda conversion? I'm not convinced. RM in GT is basically the same kind of conversion depending on how high you want the fidelity to be. And, for future games at least, I would expect a rather large jump in car detail. If we get better hardware it had better not just go into graphics.

 

[Griffith500]

I agree; Exorcet presents the ideal that the genre should be aiming for. I don't think every game should have that kind of detail, but I think it's about time it started appearing somewhere.

I don't like arbitrary limitations, either, but I expect if engine swaps do appear in GT, it will be heavily constrained.

 

[D-Max]

Why? That makes it pointless, and does not do anything for realism.

Now, take that statement right there ok?

You should be able to do whatever. Even something as ridiculous as a FWD Zonda.

And throw it in along with that.

How can you say converting a GTS-T to run GTR drivetrain throws realism out the window yet you then mention a fwd zonda?

Contradicting your own statements a bit there are you not? :s

 

[Exorcet]

Now, take that statement right there ok?



And throw it in along with that.

How can you say converting a GTS-T to run GTR drivetrain throws realism out the window yet you then mention a fwd zonda?

Contradicting your own statements a bit there are you not? :s

Have you read the posts following? Also I never said that converting a RWD GT-R to AWD threw out realism. I said that adding arbitrary restrictions did not add realism.

And if you want to see a realistic way to get a FWD Zonda, then read my other posts.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The GT series has gotten this far, the biggest driving sim the world has ever known, billions of dollars in sales, mainly by focusing on realism and not allowing a lot of the "arcadish" stuff other titles allow or encourage. In the future, if the game allows unlimited engine swaps, in my opinion it'll be moving more towards arcade and away from realism and take something away from the series. Limited engine swaps maybe, along a certain theme or line of reasoning, like being able to put an American V8 into a RWD JDM drift car might make some sense. PD creating a line of RM's that allow for engine swapping would make some sense. Allowing a 7 litre V10 into a Mini, while fun for some, would seriously detract from heart of the series to date.

Having said that, if they do decide to be very liberal with the engine swapping there had better be either a dramatic improvement in the PP system or at least some kind of toggle switch available when setting up a room to allow hybrids or not. PD dramatically missed the boat when it comes to the online racing aspect of the game this time around, lets hope they don't get the design right next time and this could be a big part of it, for good or bad.

 

[Flaco13]

^ This!!! 👍

 

[counter345]

I agree that engines should be swappable, but within reason. At least they should make it so that engines should be able to physically fit into the car in order to swap it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And what's wrong with it?

FWD Zonda, are you kidding me? Seriously.

Maybe find a better example.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

FWD Zonda, are you kidding me? Seriously.

Maybe find a better example.

A 4WD Viper would be a better example I think. It has been done in real life but required a ton of work and the front subframes from a different Chrysler vehicle.

 

[C6.R]

Engine swapping en drivetrain changing sounds very cool but it has to be limited.

For example : A FR Subaru with a Focus ST 5 cylinder (just an example) but not something like a :
Honda type R with a Peugeot 908 engine..

 

[E46fanatic937]

E60 m5 engine put into the e46 M3 CSL.Its been done in real life. Mercedes sl600/Sl65 twin turbo v12 into the CL600(N/A v12) or CLK55(N/A v8).Lexus LFA small v10 swapped into the Lexus SC430(4.3l V8).

 

[Exorcet]

Maybe find a better example.

I honestly think it was a good example. Whether or not people find the idea distasteful or sacrilege or unreasonable doesn't matter. It's possible, it's realistic, we should be allowed to do it if the game can model it correctly.

Believe me I don't plan on making FWD anything (All my FWD cars in Forza have been converted to something else), but limits for the sake of limits is not what we need. If we can't make FWD Zondas, or something just as silly, there should be an acceptable reason for it. That reason would be GT's inability to model it correctly, Pagani refusing PD to model this, that it is completely impossible, or lack of time/resources to implement this feature.

 

[Griffith500]

Engine swapping en drivetrain changing sounds very cool but it has to be limited.

For example : A FR Subaru with a Focus ST 5 cylinder (just an example) but not something like a :
Honda type R with a Peugeot 908 engine..

This is he sort of thing that is curiously, seemingly, engrained in people. Why is converting the Scooby to FR and putting in a transverse engine like that Volvo lump more acceptable than putting a 908 engine in a "Honda Type R" (you mean like the NSX? )?

This is a game, the general lack of spare 908 engines lying around and the supposed / imagined "difficulty" of sub-frame modification (never mind the fact that most "production-car-based" racing formulas had heavily modified or often bespoke subframes anyway) shouldn't matter, except maybe for cost of modification. Granted, uni-body / chassis modifications might need to be a bit more extreme in some cases, but that's what RMs are for, and I'd argue that the RM "system" could do with a bit more customisability / adjustability anyway. For the case of non-modified car bodies, a simple engine bay volume and dimensions with engine volume and dimensions intersection would define the possible engine / drivetrain swap options, whilst practically anything should go for RMs in the ideal case.

In short, it's still a totally arbitrary limitation. Is a 908 engine more or less hassle than, say, a Toyota GZ V12 installed into any given car? The problem is that there will be perfectly feasible engine swaps (in the grandest of grand schemes of engine swaps in general) that can come completely out of left-field and produce some truly interesting cars (as well as some downright ludicrous ones, granted, but that's the same argument levelled at the livery editor), and that shouldn't be obstructed because of what is essentially a matter of taste.

 

[Exorcet]

This is he sort of thing that is curiously, seemingly, engrained in people. Why is converting the Scooby to FR and putting in a transverse engine like that Volvo lump more acceptable than putting a 908 engine in a "Honda Type R" (you mean like the NSX? )?

This is a game, the general lack of spare 908 engines lying around and the supposed / imagined "difficulty" of sub-frame modification (never mind the fact that most "production-car-based" racing formulas had heavily modified or often bespoke subframes anyway) shouldn't matter, except maybe for cost of modification. Granted, uni-body / chassis modifications might need to be a bit more extreme in some cases, but that's what RMs are for, and I'd argue that the RM "system" could do with a bit more customisability / adjustability anyway. For the case of non-modified car bodies, a simple engine bay volume and dimensions with engine volume and dimensions intersection would define the possible engine / drivetrain swap options, whilst practically anything should go for RMs in the ideal case.

In short, it's still a totally arbitrary limitation. Is a 908 engine more or less hassle than, say, a Toyota GZ V12 installed into any given car? The problem is that there will be perfectly feasible engine swaps (in the grandest of grand schemes of engine swaps in general) that can come completely out of left-field and produce some truly interesting cars (as well as some downright ludicrous ones, granted, but that's the same argument levelled at the livery editor), and that shouldn't be obstructed because of what is essentially a matter of taste.

This is it pretty much exactly.

People equate "I've never heard of this" with "completely impossible".

 

[CodeRedR51]

This is it pretty much exactly.

People equate "I've never heard of this" with "completely impossible".

Might as well just allow every engine into any car with your crazy logic.

 

[Griffith500]

Might as well just allow every engine into any car with your crazy logic.

Think of the potential for innovative, interesting, online racing series, with player-created cars built to player-specified rulesets (many of which will be real-world) - assuming some accompanying overhaul to online racing in general.
Besides, boring old money is the only thing keeping most people back from manifesting their crazy ideas in the real world in the first place.

It might sound crazy, but it's guaranteed to also be fun. This is too much like the argument against a livery editor, and, much as in that case, proper filtering and "opting out" ability will work wonders for controlling exposure to ludicrous taste.

 

[Flaco13]

No manufacturer will give a license to a free of limits swapping of virtual car parts anyway. What PD could do though would be to offer 'Gran Turismo engines' in all shapes and sizes wich would fit in (almost) any car. Fictional, but hey... we got X2010's