Fanatec Gran Turismo DD Pro

[PirovacBoy]

@kovacs like I promised I had some more Seat Time today and tried all sorts of possible Settings, but I have to disappoint you.
Unfortunately it’s not possible to adjust the FFB to feel comparable to 1.15 😕
I‘m using the following Settings as they seem the best possible Solution

Tuning Menu Settings:

SEN Auto
FF 95
FFS Peak
NDP 0
NFR Off
NIN Off
INT 1
FEI 100
FOR 100
SPR 100
DPR 100
In-Game Settings:

Controller Settings:
Force Feedback Max. Torque: 5
Force Feedback Sensitivity: personal Preference currently at 3.
But 1 gives more Dynamic Feedback.

Overall I must admit that the current FFB implementation is a huge step back in terms of Dynamic Feedback.
Braking into Corners feels numb and with 0 Feedback while going through a Corner.
It’s just heavy without ANY sort of Feedback .
The FFB Dynamics are completely ripped out compared to 1.15.
No Setting can bring back the Dynamics.
The FFB feels very much like Project Cars3.
I‘m so angry and disappointed and can’t understand why PD did that.

We had a perfect Base Setup.
They should have just added more Strength/Force and it would have been spot on.
But unfortunately my Impression is that many People just simply don’t understand that Raw Force doesn’t equal Detail.
The Signal is not clipping though.
The Numbness going through Corners is not clipping. Definitely not.
Clipping feels different.
It’s just that the details are not being communicated anymore.
Even at 8/1 in Game , it doesn’t feel like the Signal is clipping.
It’s just missing Detail.
No matter if you set up 1/1 or 5/1 or 5/10 or even 8/10.
Very strange.
It all feels the same just with more Force in the Rim/ Wheelbase but definitely not clipping.

I don’t know Man, I’m sorry but there’s no way to amplify a Signal which just isn’t there.

Edit: one more thing I noticed today.
Sometimes the Wheel would get much heavier after restarting a Run than it should be.
Something that didn’t happen under 1.15
Now under 1.16 it’s back again.

 

[FMW]

@kovacs like I promised I had some more Seat Time today and tried all sorts of possible Settings, but I have to disappoint you.
Unfortunately it’s not possible to adjust the FFB to feel comparable to 1.15 😕
I‘m using the following Settings as they seem the best possible Solution

Tuning Menu Settings:

SEN Auto
FF 95
FFS Peak
NDP 0
NFR Off
NIN Off
INT 1
FEI 100
FOR 100
SPR 100
DPR 100
In-Game Settings:

Controller Settings:
Force Feedback Max. Torque: 5
Force Feedback Sensitivity: personal Preference currently at 3.
But 1 gives more Dynamic Feedback.

Overall I must admit that the current FFB implementation is a huge step back in terms of Dynamic Feedback.
Braking into Corners feels numb and with 0 Feedback while going through a Corner.
It’s just heavy without ANY sort of Feedback .
The FFB Dynamics are completely ripped out compared to 1.15.
No Setting can bring back the Dynamics.
The FFB feels very much like Project Cars3.
I‘m so angry and disappointed and can’t understand why PD did that.

We had a perfect Base Setup.
They should have just added more Strength/Force and it would have been spot on.
But unfortunately my Impression is that many People just simply don’t understand that Raw Force doesn’t equal Detail.
The Signal is not clipping though.
The Numbness going through Corners is not clipping. Definitely not.
Clipping feels different.
It’s just that the details are not being communicated anymore.
Even at 8/1 in Game , it doesn’t feel like the Signal is clipping.
It’s just missing Detail.
No matter if you set up 1/1 or 5/1 or 5/10 or even 8/10.
Very strange.
It all feels the same just with more Force in the Rim/ Wheelbase but definitely not clipping.

I don’t know Man, I’m sorry but there’s no way to amplify a Signal which just isn’t there.

Edit: one more thing I noticed today.
Sometimes the Wheel would get much heavier after restarting a Run than it should be.
Something that didn’t happen under 1.15
Now under 1.16 it’s back again.

That's a real bummer to hear. Thanks for the seat time and testing. I personally loved how 1.15 felt after you, @Jordan and Maurice posted your settings. GT7 felt the way a driving game should. You felt like you had to "drive" the car, and 1.15 gave you detail, especially in the corners, on how to adapt to good lap times. For now, I'll just put in your current settings and pray they have another FFB update, at some point, to bring back the Dynamic Detail.

 

[palqo]

Your wheel vibrates like a dildo when you understeer in corners? Instead of going lighter since there's less friction and self-alignment torque? Cool. What car is that?

That vibration has always been there. Even in GTS.

Imagine, it does both. As it loses and regains traction repeatedly, it vibrates. It's not cool, I've been trying to mitigate it, since I got it.

Also

We had a perfect Base Setup.
They should have just added more Strength/Force and it would have been spot on.
But unfortunately my Impression is that many People just simply don’t understand that Raw Force doesn’t equal Detail.
The Signal is not clipping though.
The Numbness going through Corners is not clipping. Definitely not.
Clipping feels different.
It’s just that the details are not being communicated anymore.
Even at 8/1 in Game , it doesn’t feel like the Signal is clipping.
It’s just missing Detail.
No matter if you set up 1/1 or 5/1 or 5/10 or even 8/10.
Very strange.
It all feels the same just with more Force in the Rim/ Wheelbase but definitely not clipping.

Don't know about GTS, Sony has kindly locked out the CSW from PS4, I had no vibration or any understeer in GTS in G25 emulation mode.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Imagine, it does both. As it loses and regains traction repeatedly, it vibrates. It's not cool, I've been trying to mitigate it, since I got it.

I'm assuming it's more like rapid skipping, losing and regaining traction, when you've pushed way too far on a specific set of tyres and suspension? Sure, that's nice, but dildo vibration isn't, not in a steering wheel?
Every time I feel that vibration, it's as immersion breaking as if someone would suddenly slap me in the face. But I brush it off and race on...

 

[palqo]

Every time I feel that vibration, it's as immersion breaking as if someone would suddenly slap me in the face. But I brush it off and race on...

In that moment, I usually release the throttle or wheel a bit and what do you know, it stops and my exit from the corner is faster. 😄
I'm still unsure, what you refer to as "dildo vibration" (sorry, never held one in my hand 😋).
It's a thread about DD Pro, so I would assume, we both use the same wheel? Don't you have the problem with the QR adapter?

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

In that moment, I usually release the throttle or wheel a bit and what do you know, it stops and my exit from the corner is faster. 😄
I'm still unsure, what you refer to as "dildo vibration" (sorry, never held one in my hand 😋).
It's a thread about DD Pro, so I would assume, we both use the same wheel? Don't you have the problem with the QR adapter?

Yep, you're right, that's what the vibration is for. I and many others just find it too obtrusive, and would want an option to turn it off. The wheel going a touch lighter would be indication enough for many of us, but not all. Also, the vibration starts when you've understeered too much. You should act before it vibrates.

Yes, GT DD Pro 8 Nm with the GT wheel is what I'm using. I've held many dildos in my hand - they feel exactly like the understeer effect. Now you know how a dildo feels. And dildo owners know how a Fanatec DD wheel feels when understeering in GT7. A sensation pleasant in some situations and less so in others.

QR Lite clonking is solved by electrical tape.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I’ve just popped out down the local sex shop to buy a dildo for research purposes.

 

[Tuna_350Z]

With boost kit?

I’ve just popped out down the local sex shop to buy a dildo for research purposes.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

With boost kit?

Highly recommended! And with more settings than what PD offers us in GT7!

 

[Tuna_350Z]

Thought PD philosophy is just brutal force and no details...

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Highly recommended! And with more settings than what PD offers us in GT7!

That’d be 3 settings then 😆

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

That’d be 3 settings then 😆

Yes. I'd need a cry laugh emoji for that. It's sad funny.
Anyway, if they had FFB really dialled, we wouldn't need so many settings, I believe. But it's not dialled at the moment, not at all.
As far as Fanatec tuning menu goes, I'm happy. I just turn the special effects off and everything is good.

 

[PirovacBoy]

As it loses and regains traction repeatedly, it vibrates. It's not cool, I've been trying to mitigate it, since I got it.

Assuming you are playing on the GT DD Pro, there IS a way to mitigate the horrendous Understeer Rattle.

Just enter the Tuning Menu and LOWER the FEI to 80%. I wouldn’t go lower than 70% though.
I‘m referring to the 8NM Boost Kit with in Game Settings 5/1 keep that in mind.
Otherwise you loose too much overall FFB Effects Intensity.
The Force Effect Intensity regulates all incoming FFB Effects.
Not only does is mitigate the Understeer Effect, by doing so it lets you drive way more aggressive without being as intrusive as it is.
You can Attack Corners way harder without feeling that your Wheelbase is going to explode any Moment.
The biggest Benefit though is that it FEELS way more pleasant to your Hands.
It also gives you a better feeling for what your Tires are actually doing, not only while Understeering but also when Cornering with high Speeds.
It somehow makes the Tires FEEL more rubbery and sticky.
The only downside I noticed so far is that the Curb and Road Bump Effects feel a bit softer too, but the Advantages definitely outweigh that.

 

[ants818]

Assuming you are playing on the GT DD Pro, there IS a way to mitigate the horrendous Understeer Rattle.

Just enter the Tuning Menu and LOWER the FEI to 80%. I wouldn’t go lower than 70% though.
I‘m referring to the 8NM Boost Kit with in Game Settings 5/1 keep that in mind.
Otherwise you loose too much overall FFB Effects Intensity.
The Force Effect Intensity regulates all incoming FFB Effects.
Not only does is mitigate the Understeer Effect, by doing so it lets you drive way more aggressive without being as intrusive as it is.
You can Attack Corners way harder without feeling that your Wheelbase is going to explode any Moment.
The biggest Benefit though is that it FEELS way more pleasant to your Hands.
It also gives you a better feeling for what your Tires are actually doing, not only while Understeering but also when Cornering with high Speeds.
It somehow makes the Tires FEEL more rubbery and sticky.
The only downside I noticed so far is that the Curb and Road Bump Effects feel a bit softer too, but the Advantages definitely outweigh that.

i noticed you published your preferred settings here and have FEI at 100. however, you say above that FEI at 80 or higher feels good. are you still tweaking, what would you recommend FEI be set at?

thanks for your help with this mess PD created

 

[PirovacBoy]

i noticed you published your preferred settings here and have FEI at 100. however, you say above that FEI at 80 or higher feels good. are you still tweaking, what would you recommend FEI be set at?

thanks for your help with this mess PD created

Me personally I’m currently using FEI at 100% with my Settings.
80% FEI let’s me push the Cars‘ Limits harder without my Hands going Numb when Understeer kicks in.
As Long as you‘re smooth with your inputs I’d suggest to keep FEI around 100%.
Here’s an example.
Choose a Car and Track you’re very familiar with.
Let’s say a GR3 Car around Suzuka.
Drive some Laps and push the Limits from Corner to Corner, Lap after Lap.
You‘ll feel when, where and how intrusive the Understeer kicks in.
If it slows you down or gives you an unpleasant Feeling, lower the FEI in 10%steps until you find a Point where it doesn’t slow you down, doesn’t make you loose Detail and gives you a more pleasant and therefore better and more consistent and overall faster Driving Experience.
It really all depends on your Driving Style and smoothness in your Inputs.
Just don’t go below 70% as you‘ll loose too much Details otherwise.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I just tried a fast formula car in RaceRoom for the first time. Excellent FFB. But, in a high speed corner, I was suddenly "wait what, this feels like GT7!". I checked the FFB meter and I was very clearly experiencing FFB clipping. Turned down the FFB multiplier a couple of notches, and all was excellent again - no clipping/GT7.

Now I'm convinced that GT7, and GTS as well but not as bad, is for some surely stupid reason clipping in faster cars. In 1.15 it wasn't. That daily race C in Super Formula last week was excellent.

So, can someone explain how this is? They surely can't be this incompetent at PD? There has to be an explanation...

Edit: During clipping, what wheel you got doesn't matter. It all feels like a cheap toy - just a spring effect towards middle. Talking wheels becomes irrelevant. Clipping should never ever occur in a corner. It can only be accepted during a crash.
So yeah, having Fanatec or anything nice in GT7 is a total waste in my opinion - I'd strongly advise against spending the money. Luckily there are other games. In 1.15 it felt totally worth it though. If they don't bring it back... Who wants to buy a PS5?

 

[NikNakTobasco]

They surely can't be this incompetent at PD?

😐

 

[PirovacBoy]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share my thoughts after some long and mind boggling Sessions with GT7.
So over the past 2Days I did endless testing different FFB Settings on the Wheelbase as in Game too.
My Conclusion is the following.
I just simply have no idea 🤷🏻‍♂️😅

The Force Feedback feels phenomenal as soon as I jumped in any Road Car driving on Sport or Comfort Tires.
At least when we talking Chassis/Suspension Dynamics and Weight Shifting.
Tires are a Different Story but I’ll check on that later.
GR3 Cars are a Mysterium though.
These Machines are so stiff and planted that under the current FFB 1.16 Calculations I couldn’t find a reasonable Setting to bring back the much appreciated Details we all (a small elitist Minority 😂) experienced under 1.15

I have a Theory though.
I think that the Games‘ Signal especially the one which is responsible for the FFB Strength/Linearity is just overriding the fine Details Signal and therefore completely killing any Dynamic Details as soon as a certain constant FFB Treshhold Point is exceeded.
Usually these Parameters work independently and shouldn’t interfere with the other or are at least be calculated separately.
However, to me it feels like this separation is not working properly.
No matter what Setting I tried, after a certain Point it ALWAYS felt like something is missing.
And to make it clear, in my Opinion this has absolutely nothing to do with the Term Clipping.
It might feel similar but it definitely isn’t or can’t be Clipping.
Clipping occurs when the Wheelbase has to deal with Forces which exceed its maximum Torque output abilities.
In that Case the Wheelbase just simply isn’t capable of recreating the Details in the Signal due to an override in Max peak Torque which results in a very heavy Wheel with absolutely 0 Detail.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE IN GT7.

No matter if it’s set to 5/1, 5/10 or 1/5, 1/10 .
The Results are ALWAYS the same.
When I set the Wheelbase above 8/1 then I start to notice some sort of slight Clipping but keep in mind, a FFB Signal which clips for a very little Moment under extreme Situations, like going hard over Curbs/ Rumble Strips for example is acceptable as long as the Details under regular driving don’t get killed.
Up to or slightly over the Limit is tolerable for a glimpse period.
But that’s not the case at all with GT7.
This is not clipping @HugoTwoWheels .
It feels similar but the DDPRO is capable of running and dealing with much harder Forces than GT7 does output with ingame Settings 5/1 or even 7/1.
I don’t know if a Signal can clip. Of course, a Wheelbase can clip but only if the Signals Values exceed a certain Point and then overwhelm the Wheelbase‘ capabilities, or are not separated properly and therefore interfering under themselves.
I think that we experience exactly what I’m trying to describe.
Not the classical Clipping, but the Result gives the impression of clipping.
But the Forces in the Wheelbase are way way too weak to actually BE Clipping.

And one more thing maybe in Regards of Tire Feedback.
This is a hard one, as it’s impossible to separate the Tire FFB from the Suspension FFB in GT7.
But to me I’m fine with them.
I can feel what the tires are doing and when they are about to loose Grip.
Tires are not the issue.
It’s the damn Details when going through a Corner and the Wheel just becomes a Rubber Band without proper or sufficient Suspension Feedback.

And now a very important Note.
I know from my Real Life driving experience that I can honestly assure that I NEVER EVER felt the Suspension Feedback through the Steering Wheel.
I felt the Surface, I felt the Forces like self aligning Torque and of course Bumps and potholes or understeer (Wheelrim going light) but that’s it or at least that’s what I remember having felt.
Suspension Dynamics or oversteer I always felt through G Forces or Seat of Pants.

Wow, what I’m trying to say is that GT7 overall “FEELS“ very much like real life driving a Car at least when it comes down to what I would feel through the Steering Column/Rim.
Of course like @Scaff once mentioned and told me, we as Sim Racers are heavily reliant on a properly simulated and implemented FFB with every possible Physical Real World Feeling being transferred to the FFB Signal through the Wheel to at least get a proper understanding what the Car is doing.
Driving by Feel like in ACC for example.
It’s so easy and understandable yet hard to master.
GT7 is harder because it’s more kind of an intuitive drive.

Anyway, my conclusion is the following.

With GT7 there is currently no right or wrong/ perfect Setup.
Our Wheelbase can’t amplify or add any Details which are not in the output Signal.

Just set the Wheelbase up to your likings, enjoy the Game or not, it’s up to you but don’t destroy your Head trying to find THE Setting.
The ForceFeedback you want to talk to is temporarily not available 😂
#PD bring back 1.15 with higher Torque, I’m begging you 🙏🏻

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share my thoughts after some long and mind boggling Sessions with GT7.
So over the past 2Days I did endless testing different FFB Settings on the Wheelbase as in Game too.
My Conclusion is the following.
I just simply have no idea 🤷🏻‍♂️😅

The Force Feedback feels phenomenal as soon as I jumped in any Road Car driving on Sport or Comfort Tires.
At least when we talking Chassis/Suspension Dynamics and Weight Shifting.
Tires are a Different Story but I’ll check on that later.
GR3 Cars are a Mysterium though.
These Machines are so stiff and planted that under the current FFB 1.16 Calculations I couldn’t find a reasonable Setting to bring back the much appreciated Details we all (a small elitist Minority 😂) experienced under 1.15

I have a Theory though.
I think that the Games‘ Signal especially the one which is responsible for the FFB Strength/Linearity is just overriding the fine Details Signal and therefore completely killing any Dynamic Details as soon as a certain constant FFB Treshhold Point is exceeded.
Usually these Parameters work independently and shouldn’t interfere with the other or are at least be calculated separately.
However, to me it feels like this separation is not working properly.
No matter what Setting I tried, after a certain Point it ALWAYS felt like something is missing.
And to make it clear, in my Opinion this has absolutely nothing to do with the Term Clipping.
It might feel similar but it definitely isn’t or can’t be Clipping.
Clipping occurs when the Wheelbase has to deal with Forces which exceed its maximum Torque output abilities.
In that Case the Wheelbase just simply isn’t capable of recreating the Details in the Signal due to an override in Max peak Torque which results in a very heavy Wheel with absolutely 0 Detail.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE IN GT7.

No matter if it’s set to 5/1, 5/10 or 1/5, 1/10 .
The Results are ALWAYS the same.
When I set the Wheelbase above 8/1 then I start to notice some sort of slight Clipping but keep in mind, a FFB Signal which clips for a very little Moment under extreme Situations, like going hard over Curbs/ Rumble Strips for example is acceptable as long as the Details under regular driving don’t get killed.
Up to or slightly over the Limit is tolerable for a glimpse period.
But that’s not the case at all with GT7.
This is not clipping @HugoTwoWheels .
It feels similar but the DDPRO is capable of running and dealing with much harder Forces than GT7 does output with ingame Settings 5/1 or even 7/1.
I don’t know if a Signal can clip. Of course, a Wheelbase can clip but only if the Signals Values exceed a certain Point and then overwhelm the Wheelbase‘ capabilities, or are not separated properly and therefore interfering under themselves.
I think that we experience exactly what I’m trying to describe.
Not the classical Clipping, but the Result gives the impression of clipping.
But the Forces in the Wheelbase are way way too weak to actually BE Clipping.

And one more thing maybe in Regards of Tire Feedback.
This is a hard one, as it’s impossible to separate the Tire FFB from the Suspension FFB in GT7.
But to me I’m fine with them.
I can feel what the tires are doing and when they are about to loose Grip.
Tires are not the issue.
It’s the damn Details when going through a Corner and the Wheel just becomes a Rubber Band without proper or sufficient Suspension Feedback.

And now a very important Note.
I know from my Real Life driving experience that I can honestly assure that I NEVER EVER felt the Suspension Feedback through the Steering Wheel.
I felt the Surface, I felt the Forces like self aligning Torque and of course Bumps and potholes or understeer (Wheelrim going light) but that’s it or at least that’s what I remember having felt.
Suspension Dynamics or oversteer I always felt through G Forces or Seat of Pants.

Wow, what I’m trying to say is that GT7 overall “FEELS“ very much like real life driving a Car at least when it comes down to what I would feel through the Steering Column/Rim.
Of course like @Scaff once mentioned and told me, we as Sim Racers are heavily reliant on a properly simulated and implemented FFB with every possible Physical Real World Feeling being transferred to the FFB Signal through the Wheel to at least get a proper understanding what the Car is doing.
Driving by Feel like in ACC for example.
It’s so easy and understandable yet hard to master.
GT7 is harder because it’s more kind of an intuitive drive.

Anyway, my conclusion is the following.

With GT7 there is currently no right or wrong/ perfect Setup.
Our Wheelbase can’t amplify or add any Details which are not in the output Signal.

Just set the Wheelbase up to your likings, enjoy the Game or not, it’s up to you but don’t destroy your Head trying to find THE Setting.
The ForceFeedback you want to talk to is temporarily not available 😂
#PD bring back 1.15 with higher Torque, I’m begging you 🙏🏻

Try RaceRoom, experiment with the FFB settings, and come back. You can re-create the exact feeling you get in GT7 with fast cars by inducing clipping. You got an FFB meter while driving (real-time graph). When you mess up the settings so it clips at peak forces, the FFB meter flatlines and suddenly you get GT7 flashbacks. The peaks of FFB go above the red line and all you feel is a numb spring effect.

In RaceRoom, FFB multiplier ("strength") is adjusted on the fly when switching between slow and fast cars. Fast cars need smaller multiplier to not clip, and slow cars might need more multiplier to not feel too weak.
In GT7, this is not available, so road cars feel excellent while fast cars feel like **** clipping).

So yeah, you're wrong. Try another game with FFB meter and more settings and you'll see by yourself. It all becomes very obvious.

 

[PirovacBoy]

So yeah, you're wrong.

With what 🧐 😅
Now I’m curious

Try another game with FFB meter and more settings and you'll see by yourself. It all becomes very obvious.

That’s exactly what I did and it completely matches my Observations.
I don’t have a PC but I have Project Cars 2 on PS5.
This Game has a FFB Graph.
I experimented with it quite a lot a while ago, and Clipping was only induced when I did set the Gain in Game to high.
No matter how high I did set the other Values like Road Effects for example, as long as i kept the Gain Slider under 85% in Game with 100% FFB Torque in the Wheelbase there was no sign of clipping.
Of course the Wheel became more firm and heavy but the Details were still ALL there.
Clipping was only felt with in Game Gain above 85 and Wheelbase 100% FF.
In that case the Wheel became ridiculously heavy, something we‘re far far away from what the FFB feels in GT7 with 5/1 in Game and 95 or even 100% in the Wheelbase .
I think you might confound Clipping with the perceptive Feeling we get in GT7 which like I described might give the impression it’s Clipping but the Forces in the Wheelbase are way way to weak to actually BE Clipping.
I assure you that I know what and how clipping feels and although it might give the impression of a clipping Signal but it physically isn’t possible as the Peak Torque output Capability of the 8NM DDPRO is by far not the even in the slightest reached when the wrongly perceived Clipping like you call it occurs.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

It’s the damn Details when going through a Corner and the Wheel just becomes a Rubber Band

This is perfectly articulated and the big issue I have. I hope they can address it. Right now it feels like guesswork.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

With what 🧐 😅
Now I’m curious


That’s exactly what I did and it completely matches my Observations.
I don’t have a PC but I have Project Cars 2 on PS5.
This Game has a FFB Graph.
I experimented with it quite a lot a while ago, and Clipping was only induced when I did set the Gain in Game to high.
No matter how high I did set the other Values like Road Effects for example, as long as i kept the Gain Slider under 85% in Game with 100% FFB Torque in the Wheelbase there was no sign of clipping.
Of course the Wheel became more firm and heavy but the Details were still ALL there.
Clipping was only felt with in Game Gain above 85 and Wheelbase 100% FF.
In that case the Wheel became ridiculously heavy, something we‘re far far away from what the FFB feels in GT7 with 5/1 in Game and 95 or even 100% in the Wheelbase .
I think you might confound Clipping with the perceptive Feeling we get in GT7 which like I described might give the impression it’s Clipping but the Forces in the Wheelbase are way way to weak to actually BE Clipping.
I assure you that I know what and how clipping feels and although it might give the impression of a clipping Signal but it physically isn’t possible as the Peak Torque output Capability of the 8NM DDPRO is by far not the even in the slightest reached when the wrongly perceived Clipping like you call it occurs.

Twist the wheel into the first corner of this week's daily race c, gr.3 at Red Bull Ring, a high downforce car in a high speed corner. The FFB just goes numb with a spring effect remaining, or call it "rubber band" if you wish. That's clipping. What the hell else, since the FFB is fine in low torque situations? Use a slower car and you'll experience it less, or not at all, as you said - which is also an argument for clipping in high downforce cars since the signal from the game is stronger with those.
However, we can't affect the "gain" or whatever it is behind the scenes. This **** occurs even at max torque 1 in-game.
I don't understand why you're mixing in other parameters - how are they even relevant?
If trying to understand or even solve a problem, simplify it as much as possible first. Don't mix in other nonsense.

This is perfectly articulated and the big issue I have. I hope they can address it. Right now it feels like guesswork.

Yes, that "rubber band" on a FFB meter would be visualized as the peaks going above the red line, where the red line is 100% FFB signal to the wheel, meaning you only get a spring effect towards middle and nothing else (no detail), since the peaks are cut off.


It makes me sad that even gear shifts mid corner are felt in RaceRoom, since they of course affect everything. In GT7, it's just flat force centering the wheel. And since 1.15 I'm certain it's not because of the physics engine, but because of the ******** FFB model that the same person that was responsible for the lobby functionality must have made.

I was googling and found a post from Fanatec Dominic saying that they are aware of the poor FFB (my words but same meaning) and that they are in touch with PD about it. Let's hope that 1.15 was an effort of fixing it and that it will come back, without breaking TGT wheels and whatever else was broken.

If you don't understand how FFB works, I'm out. It's fun discussing stuff but I'm not bashing my head into a wall on my free time. And if the GT community likes clipping, my copy of GT7 with PS5 is for sale - I'm off to PC sims, where there's a demand for good FFB and plenty of supply.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I don’t understand how FFB works to be honest. I don’t really understand how anything I use works.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I don’t understand how FFB works to be honest. I don’t really understand how anything I use works.

I hate not understanding how something I use works, at least on a somewhat basic level. People are different.

If you want to learn about FFB, Gran Turismo Youtubers are the last people you should listen to. Watch someone explaining how it works in PC sims, without any "my honest magic formula that will make you faster". Or ask @Scaff .

 

[PirovacBoy]

Twist the wheel into the first corner of this week's daily race c, gr.3 at Red Bull Ring, a high downforce car in a high speed corner. The FFB just goes numb with a spring effect remaining, or call it "rubber band" if you wish. That's clipping.

Nope, that’s not clipping. It’s just the absence of Details in the Signal.
Clipping is felt by a very heavy and firm Wheel without ANY Details.
With 5/1 in GT7 on 8Nm Power Supply we get approximately 5NM MAX PEAK Torque in total, so no way the Wheel is Clipping.

What the hell else, since the FFB is fine in low torque situations?

I‘ve explained it in my previous Post very detailed.
It’s just an absence of a specific FFB Detail.
Not because of too high Torque Values but most probably because of wrongly calculated/ interfering FFB Signal overriding the FFB Details Signal.

Use a slower car and you'll experience it less, or not at all, as you said - which is also an argument for clipping in high downforce cars since the signal from the game is stronger with those.

I‘ve driven and tested a lot of Road Cars. Anything from a flimsy VW Polo to a mighty
V8 Muscle Car. No clipping. Very detailed Weight Transfer/Suspension Dynamics.

This **** occurs even at max torque 1 in-game.

Exactly, and therefore it has NOTHING to do with clipping.

I don't understand why you're mixing in other parameters - how are they even relevant?
If trying to understand or even solve a problem, simplify it as much as possible first. Don't mix in other nonsense.

Now this one is funny.
Because the Mixture of all Effects is what makes the whole FFB Experience actually an experience.
My post was not made or intended to solve a Problem which can’t be solved like I also described in my previous Post and also explained why it’s not solvable.
Actually the true Nonsense is claiming that the FFB in GT7 is Clipping.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I don’t really understand how anything I use works.

This one made my Day. Excellent, learning by doing, try and error 😂

 

[poumpoum]

My understanding is that you two are talking about 2 ways of "clipping" :

• "software clipping" : with bad FFB implementation in the game the sent signal is considered at max too quickly / early so you don't feel the difference between medium speed and high speed corners
• "hardware clipping" : the sent signal is good but your hardware can't manage the forces asked so you don't feel the difference between medium speed and high speed corners

Today I've finally tested my wheel with the "original" FFB (1.16 = before 1.15) and I can confirm 2 things on Gr3 cars :

• the feeling is really worse than the 1.15 ! Like @HugoTwoWheels said -> "just a spring effect towards middle"
• the feeling is really worse than my CSL Elite (tomorrow I will reinstall my CSL Elite just to be sure) so perhaps it means that it is a problem specific to our DD Pro wheel not the whole FFB implementation in the game

I can't believe anyone with a GT DD Pro is playing like this since the beginning

 

[Goonie75]

My understanding is that you two are talking about 2 ways of "clipping" :

• "software clipping" : with bad FFB implementation in the game the sent signal is considered at max too quickly / early so you don't feel the difference between medium speed and high speed corners
• "hardware clipping" : the sent signal is good but your hardware can't manage the forces asked so you don't feel the difference between medium speed and high speed corners

Reading both HugoTwoWheels and PirovacBoy comments I have been thinking the same.

I am aware of what hardware clipping is, which Pirovac is clearly talking about, and that would only happen when the signal sent to the wheel is higher than it can output and gets cut off at the limit of the wheels capabilities, but can be avoided if the wheel or game FFB is turned down.

I am starting to think that what HugoTwoWheels is talking about could be software clipping (assuming thats a thing), if the game was trying to output more FFB than it’s parameters can handle the signals sent to the wheel would be cut off like hardware clipping and would be noticeable at any FFB setting on the wheel or game, also makes sense why lower powered cars are not affected as much and why 1.15 had more detail because PD probably just turned down the overall FFB gain output by the game which stopped the software clipping, now we need PD to allow the game to output higher FFB signals, or reduce the FFB gain enough to stop the software clipping, or a combination of both.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I can't believe anyone with a GT DD Pro is playing like this since the beginning

I was patient and tried to learn, thinking it was some new kind of FFB language that I needed to understand. Others could be fast so why wouldn't I be able to? I'm relatively new to simracing so then I didn't have experience with games like RaceRoom.
Since I'm mostly driving by FFB, I fell like 15k DR from A+ to A. When 1.15 came, in a week, with Super Formula at Autopolis, I climbed back to A+. It was super fun! Now I'm "****" again, since I don't practice as much as others and obviously can't react quickly enough by visuals. It's not fun, since I simply don't got FFB in high speed corners.

Regarding hardware and software clipping, thanks for pointing that out. I was talking about software clipping all the time. There's no hardware clipping with Fanatec 8 Nm that I'm aware of in Gran Turismo nor RaceRoom. Not in ACC either, I think. Haven't tried other games.

 

[PirovacBoy]

My understanding is that you two are talking about 2 ways of "clipping" :

• "software clipping" : with bad FFB implementation in the game the sent signal is considered at max too quickly / early so you don't feel the difference between medium speed and high speed corners
• "hardware clipping" : the sent signal is good but your hardware can't manage the forces asked so you don't feel the difference between medium speed and high speed corners

Me personally have never heard of the term “Software Clipping “ but I’m no expert or Scientist so what do I know.

I have a Colleague of mine who is working in post Production Sound Mixing Company.
I‘m much into Electronic Music and have a pretty solid AV Hi-Fi Equipment in my House.
After I read your Comment, some thoughts have gone through my Mind.
I remembered a Discussion between us where we were talking about Sound Effects and Noises in Music and Studio Speakers Capabilities.
He told me that you can amplify any Signal which IS included in the Main Signal but you can’t do it if it’s not included and you won’t hear it even if you have the best Speakers with the most linear and accurate Crossover available.
So IF the Signal is included in GT7 we should be able to at least notice/feel it as long as the Main Frequency Volume/Torque is low enough to not make the Signal clip physically.
But that just isn’t the case in GT7 under 1.16
Even with the lowest Torque Setting the much appreciated Details we all noticed in 1.15 are now missing.
I see our DDPRO as an Equalizer with all its fancy Sliders.
But no matter what I tried ( which specific Frequency I tried to amplify) the FFB Signal which should communicate these Details is just not included in the Main Signal.
And therefore from my Understanding there can’t be any sort of clipping be it physical or like you mentioned a Software Clipping.
But anyway, I’m not going to bother anymore trying to explain or look for a Solution.
My intention with my previous Post was just to give you my impressions and to try to help the Community to understand and make the best with what is currently available.
I just hope we get back to 1.15.
To me it felt detailed, strong and communicative, I don’t need more to make me happy.
It would be perfect if PD could implement individual Settings for the most used Wheelbases.
That way, everyone can enjoy the best FFB on his specific Base without having to make a compromise or sacrificing anything.
A one Fits all Solution is not applicable.
Tell that to a Woman which has thrown Children 😂