FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers

[GTP_CargoRatt]

First of all, please excuse the OT excursion, but I feel this has to be addressed.
Someone brought this to my attention this evening.

------------------------------------------
ABS 0 and clutch in same rant, so I take it I am probably the target.
Just to clarify a few things here as it seems that my posts are mis-interpreted as arrogant.

1) I have never stated that I believe ABS 0 is more realistic on any GTP thread discussion.

2) I have never participated in any GTP thread discussions regarding realism of driving aids.
Other then to say PD set the rules by making them available, so I find no fault using/not using.

3) I have done 0 ABS since back in GT5 because it felt more natural to me, nothing else.

4) I frequently post that I use ABS 0, the reason for this is to provide a reference point.

5) Regarding the clutch, yes, I have frequently posted I use the clutch...
...reason is in case there are other clutch users out there because of its bad rep in GT5/GT6.

6) A few seasonal threads ago I started creating dedicated clutch thread...
...reason for that is so that I could compete against my FR LB pals who also use clutch.

7) If I have offended anyone or have come across as arrogant, that was not my intention.

8) I can't tune, I am not alien, I will never have the time to devote to GT6 like @GTP_CargoRatt does.
So a few months ago, I started to do the Seasonal threads as a way to contribute something.
The bulk of my posts regarding 0 ABS, clutch use have been on these threads.

9) I am surprised by the tone of the commentary to be honest.
I can only surmise that it might have something to do with what happened on Panorama Seasonal thread.
This post pretty much encapsulated it, but I invite you to trawl the thread for full effect.

I think this has put the nail in the coffin for me as far doing future Seasonal threads, & prob. GTP.

So, here you go again, coming intro a thread with your assumptions for the sole purpose of taking a shot or otherwise trying to start crap with me again. I did not mention names for a reason, to avoid stuff like this but yet you manage to take it to this level again. And no, I was not talking about you personally. I only mentioned the clutch because that seems to go along with the whole no aids thing with a lot of people. So again, another wrong assumption on your part. I am entitled to my opinion and my thoughts on the matter, I am sorry if you don't like it.

Furthermore, there was no need for you to bring something that happened in another thread, weeks ago I might add, into this one. I can only guess though your sole intention was to further smear my name or otherwise turn others against me. The matter has already been taken care of and resolved between me and the other party, you do not need to keep bringing it up. It didn't even involve you directly anyway. You and the other members in that thread seem to want to keep poking at me for what took place in that thread and I really think its time for you guys to put an end to it, I have. In my opinion, its pretty rude and childish of you to bring those events into this thread and I'm sure the OP won't appreciate it. All of your assumptions about why I posted my opinion in this thread has nothing to do with you or the events that took place in the other thread, so please, stop with the silly assumptions.

 

[JogoAsobi]

So, here you go again, coming intro a thread with your assumptions for the sole purpose of taking a shot or otherwise trying to start crap with me again.

So please find and return here and publicly quote where I have ever started crap with you.
I can recall no interactions with you to-date that have been so.
Perhaps you have confused me with someone else?

I am done here, apologize to all for this on your thread.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

So please find and return here and publicly quote where I have ever started crap with you.
I can recall no interactions with you to-date that have been so.
Perhaps you have confused me with someone else?

I am done here, apologize to all for this on your thread.

Drop it, please. I'm not going to turn this thread into a pissing match just because you seemingly have an axe to grind now just because you dislike my opinion stated earlier in this thread. Also, there is just more than me that shares this same general opinion, guess you must have missed that post.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Sounds similar to my findings running with just the upgraded power/weight options (Stock suspension/LSD), I found the Civic to be slightly quicker and more refined in that form but I felt the AE86 would easily be equal if the stock LSD didn't keep lighting up the inside wheel on exit. If tuned I believe they would both end up with equally competitive and comparative performance 👍

I recently posted this replica, at 420PP, it should be a good contender for the AE86 and EG6 It can do 1:07s on stock gearbox.

AMR Engineering/Cusco Toyota MR2 1600 G Limited Supercharger '86
Real World Setup - TRD Track/Auto Cross/Road Race Alignment 420PP and 450PP

Special Build of Cusco/AMR Engineering MR2 AW11 G-LTD SC
420PP and 450PP
Comfort Soft to Sports Medium​

View attachment 182573
​

CAR : Toyota MR2 1600 G Limited Supercharger '86
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium

Specs 420PP - 45/55 distribution
Horsepower: 195 HP / 198 PS at 7300 RPM
Torque: 175.0 ft-lb at 5200 RPM
Power Limiter at : 98.8%
Weight: 980 kg
Ballast : 86 kg
Ballast Position : 15
Weight Distribution : 45 / 55 as in real life stock ( 45.5%/55.5% ) replicated via ballast position.
Performance Points: 420

Specs 420PP 42/58 distribution
Horsepower: 194 HP / 197 PS at 6700 RPM
Torque: 175.0 ft-lb at 5200 RPM
Power Limiter at : 98.7%
Weight: 980 kg
Ballast : 86 kg
Ballast Position : 50
Weight Distribution : 42 / 58 as in real life for track built MR2
Performance Points: 420

Specs 450PP 45/55 distribution
Horsepower: 243 HP / 246.3 PS at 7400 RPM
Torque: 207.4 ft-lb at 5500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.9%
Weight: 980 kg
Ballast : 86 kg
Ballast Position : 15
Weight Distribution : 45 / 55 as in real life stock ( 45.5%/55.5% ) replicated via ballast position.
Performance Points: 450

Specs 450PP 42/58 distribution
Horsepower: 243 HP / 246.3 PS at 7400 RPM
Torque: 207.4 ft-lb at 5500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.8%
Weight: 980 kg
Ballast : 86 kg
Ballast Position : 50
Weight Distribution : 42 / 58 as in real life for track built MR2
Performance Points: 450



GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED in this build )
Wheels : +1 Inch Up BBS-RS painted in Gold / Saddle Tan
Car Paint : Classic Red


Tuning Parts Installed :
Engine Tuning Stage 3 -ONLY FOR 450PP - remove for 420PP
Sports Computer
Racing Exhaust
Isometric Exhaust Manifold -ONLY FOR 450PP - remove for 420PP
Catalytic Converter Sports
Intake Tuning
Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
Adjustable LSD
Twin Plate Clutch
Weight Reduction Stage 3
Carbon Hood ( Body Color )
Window Weight Reduction



Suspension - AMR Engineering Coilover with Swift Springs 400/250 +
Track/Auto X/Road Race TRD Specs Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 120 120
Spring Rate: 7.14 4.47
Dampers (Compression): 6 8
Dampers (Extension): 7 5
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 1
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.14 0.28


LSD - 1.5 Way Cusco RS LSD
Initial Torque : 20
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 17

View attachment 182705​

Brake Balance:
5/6 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/5, for ABS 1 5/6 or feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :
Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/6 brake balance as starting point.


Notes :

This is one of the MR car that I really like to drive. I have built this replica since release day, but only decided to post it now as it has comfort hard tire

The car is roughly based on an real MR2 AW11 that my mate used to own back in my college days. An old worn out MR2 MK1 with over 200,000km in red It was modified with AMR Engineering custom coilover utilizing swift springs and Cusco 2 way LSD to help with traction, the owner was learner licensed driver so no power mods allowed by his parents For this version, I decided to give the little MR2 some more grunt and less fat, built for racing and track day, a what if version

For this build, I focused on stiffer springs to help the car stays more planted during high G cornering load. Springs are also chosen to balance the rear heavy car following similar approach in real life, closer rear rate to the front. Some AutoX / track MR2 MK1 even uses same rate or lower rear, depending on the rear sway bar usage and tires fitted. I chose to use lower rear, taking from my past experience and real life practice from MR2 AW11 owner who do Auto X and track racing. The plan is to use high spring rate, but the targeted value is not available in GT6, so I have to use lower range rate, while still maintaining proven spring ratio ( front to rear ) in real life.

Springs are 400 / 250 for the MR2, softer rear following a setup used in real life for track/Auto X AW11. With damper setup for track and ARB to reduce oversteer on mid corner. Toe and camber alignment uses TRD track/auto x/road race recommended range for their line of sports springs ( lowering and race ).

LSD uses 1.5 way, with high preload and medium lock to focus on agility while still keeping the little MR2 from dancing around too much and good traction from mid corner

For power and weight distribution, I have provided a multitude of choices, from 420PP to 450PP, each has 2 version of weight distribution. The official stock distribution is at 45.5/55.5 replicated via ballast position, while the 42/58 is from reports of MR2 AW11 owner who tracked the car and sporting extensive modification and weight savings. Try all of them and pick which one suits you best. For 450PP, engine tuning stage 3 and isometric exhaust manifold will have to be installed.

I mainly tested the car at Tsukuba and Bathurst It can easily run 1:07s at Tsukuba on comfort soft on 420PP + 45/55 distribution.


ENJOY

 

[DolHaus]

I recently posted this replica, at 420PP, it should be a good contender for the AE86 and EG6 It can do 1:07s on stock gearbox.

I did think about the MR2 for an MR option, can you think of a 4x4 that would fit into the criteria? (trying to avoid the early lancer/imprezza though)

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I did think about the MR2 for an MR option, can you think of a 4x4 that would fit into the criteria? (trying to avoid the early lancer/imprezza though)

The Celica, Legacy, GTO SR or MR and Audi Quattro are good choices

 

[DolHaus]

The Celica, Legacy, GTO SR or MR and Audi Quattro are good choices

Nice one, I shall have a look and see what fits 👍

 

[DolHaus]

Ok, I think I have my groups ready for action...

Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91'
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Eiger Nordwand
Cote d'Azur


Group 2

RE Amemiya FD3S RX7
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) Touring Car '04
Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR Touring Car '05

525pp
Sports Soft Tyres
Max 150 Front Down force
Max 350 Rear Down force
Max 70% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Special Stage Route 5
Twin Ring Motegi East



Sound like fun?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ok, I think I have my groups ready for action...

Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91'
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Eiger Nordwand
Cote d'Azur


Group 2

RE Amemiya FD3S RX7
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) Touring Car '04
Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR Touring Car '05

525pp
Sports Soft Tyres
Max 150 Front Down force
Max 350 Rear Down force
Max 70% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Special Stage Route 5
Twin Ring Motegi East



Sound like fun?

I like this 👍 I have Team Kunimitsu NSX GT2 LM replica ( as close possible but still not perfect ) made long ago, this might be a good event to get feedback on Sadly the GT1 Turbo NSX is not possible

 

[Lionheart2113]

Ok, I think I have my groups ready for action...

Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91'
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Eiger Nordwand
Cote d'Azur


Group 2

RE Amemiya FD3S RX7
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) Touring Car '04
Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR Touring Car '05

525pp
Sports Soft Tyres
Max 150 Front Down force
Max 350 Rear Down force
Max 70% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Special Stage Route 5
Twin Ring Motegi East



Sound like fun?

When you say 70% max power limiter for group 2 does that mean you can't go below 70% or it has to remain under 70%?

 

[iainoflo85]

When you say 70% max power limiter for group 2 does that mean you can't go below 70% or it has to remain under 70%?

It means 70% is as far down as you can go.

 

[Lionheart2113]

It means 70% is as far down as you can go.

Just means there are limited options that you can install or things you can do, but that's easier for me!

 

[DolHaus]

When you say 70% max power limiter for group 2 does that mean you can't go below 70% or it has to remain under 70%?

As @iainoflo85 said, 70% is the lowest you can set the engine limiter. 👍
The downforce rules in group 2 are just there because the NSX has more aero available and it could potentially lead to an unfair advantage.

 

[Lionheart2113]

As @iainoflo85 said, 70% is the lowest you can set the engine limiter. 👍
The downforce rules in group 2 are just there because the NSX has more aero available and it could potentially lead to an unfair advantage.

Yeah I figured as much, just a shock to the system seeing such a limited amount of added parts/power limiter that could be done to hit 525pp! Wanted to be sure.

 

[DolHaus]

Yeah I figured as much, just a shock to the system seeing such a limited amount of added parts/power limiter that could be done to hit 525pp! Wanted to be sure.

Some of the cars can go much higher in overall power than the others, the Integra for example can only just reach the target PP whereas the RX7 needs a lot of limiting to meet the specs with parts added. Its all I could do to balance it really, trying to find tuner/race cars of all drivetrains in a specific PP range is tricky, I originally intended to go higher but high spec FF race cars are few and far between and they don't really work above a certain power rating anyway. I don't think it will be a popular option but I wanted it to be available, that's not to say its slow or anything just most people prefer there power going to the rear. At spec level all the cars are within 1 sec of each other using stock suspension/LSD, with a few small tweaks they would be pretty much identical

 

[Lionheart2113]

Some of the cars can go much higher in overall power than the others, the Integra for example can only just reach the target PP whereas the RX7 needs a lot of limiting to meet the specs with parts added. Its all I could do to balance it really, trying to find tuner/race cars of all drivetrains in a specific PP range is tricky, I originally intended to go higher but high spec FF race cars are few and far between and they don't really work above a certain power rating anyway. I don't think it will be a popular option but I wanted it to be available, that's not to say its slow or anything just most people prefer there power going to the rear. At spec level all the cars are within 1 sec of each other using stock suspension/LSD, with a few small tweaks they would be pretty much identical

Don't get me wrong mate, I'm not knocking your choice, so no explaining needed! Coming from you, I know there had to have been loads of thought put into it!👍

 

[DolHaus]

Don't get me wrong mate, I'm not knocking your choice, so no explaining needed! Coming from you, I know there had to have been loads of thought put into it!👍

Its all good, asking questions now saves problems later 👍

 

[brian wolf]

Ok, I think I have my groups ready for action...

Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91'
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Eiger Nordwand
Cote d'Azur


Group 2

RE Amemiya FD3S RX7
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) Touring Car '04
Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR Touring Car '05

525pp
Sports Soft Tyres
Max 150 Front Down force
Max 350 Rear Down force
Max 70% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Special Stage Route 5
Twin Ring Motegi East



Sound like fun?

Looks good to me! :tupne thing tho, is SS tyres to sticky for 525pp? My choice would be SH as they`ve got downforce.

 

[xande1959]

Ok, I think I have my groups ready for action...

Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91'
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Eiger Nordwand
Cote d'Azur


Group 2

RE Amemiya FD3S RX7
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) Touring Car '04
Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR Touring Car '05

525pp
Sports Soft Tyres
Max 150 Front Down force
Max 350 Rear Down force
Max 70% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Special Stage Route 5
Twin Ring Motegi East



Sound like fun?

- good choice of cars and tracks
we can choose the cars and or draw?
'm still new in FITT but for everyone to have a chance, could you do this event with other forms such media do 10 or 5 laps for each track.
with normal tire wear, fast or very fast testers would have to do online. would really work., and an idea.💡

 

[DolHaus]

Looks good to me! :tupne thing tho, is SS tyres to sticky for 525pp? My choice would be SH as they`ve got downforce.

I was thinking of changing tires, the cars can get loose on SS but they might be more fun on something less grippy. The current listings are only a rough outline at the moment, the cars and tracks won't change but I think I need to adjust a few of the finer details before finalizing it to make sure everything is balanced fairly. 👍

- good choice of cars and tracks
we can choose the cars and or draw?
'm still new in FITT but for everyone to have a chance, could you do this event with other forms such media do 10 or 5 laps for each track.
with normal tire wear, fast or very fast testers would have to do online. would really work., and an idea.💡

It will be free choice of car, hopefully not everyone will choose the same one
I love the idea but I don't think it would be fair with my car selections because some drivetrains kill their tires a lot faster than others. Might work with @Ronald6 's open track idea perhaps?

 

[Ronald6]

@xande1959 , can you elaborate on your idea, please. I'm not sure what you mean by 'media'.

 

[DolHaus]

Oh another quick question - Is anyone out there any good with photoshop?

 

[Otaliema]

Ok, I think I have my groups ready for action...

Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91'
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Eiger Nordwand
Cote d'Azur


Group 2

RE Amemiya FD3S RX7
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) Touring Car '04
Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR Touring Car '05

525pp
Sports Soft Tyres
Max 150 Front Down force
Max 350 Rear Down force
Max 70% Power Limiter
ABS Optional

Special Stage Route 5
Twin Ring Motegi East



Sound like fun?

sounds like fun to me.
With the aero on the cars SS tires might be over kill but maybe not lots of torque needs sticky tires or just spin them.

 

[DolHaus]

sounds like fun to me.
With the aero on the cars SS tires might be over kill but maybe not lots of torque needs sticky tires or just spin them.

Almost certainly dropping down to SM although I might leave the Integra on SS 👍

 

[Otaliema]

@DolHaus one car with SS and the rest on SM? is it that unstable it needs the stickier tires to keep it competitive?

 

[DolHaus]

@DolHaus one car with SS and the rest on SM? is it that unstable it needs the stickier tires to keep it competitive?

Its not so much unstable as on the edge of what the drivetrain is capable of. You can only put so much power through the front tires before it becomes unusable and so I think it needs the better tires to stay competitive

 

[xande1959]

when this event start?

 

[Lionheart2113]

when this event start?

Sounds like xande is sitting at the start line with the wheels spinning....he's ready to go!

 

[xande1959]

- Group 1

Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83
Honda Civic SiR II (EG) 91 '
Toyota MR2 1600G '86
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

420pp
Comfort Soft Tyres
Fixed Ratio Transmission
Max 90% Power Limiter
Optional ABS

Eiger Nordwand
Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83 / Time = 1:21,744
Toyota MR2 1600G '86 / Time 1:20,576
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86 / Time = 1:20,075

cote d'Azur
Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-APEX (AE86) '83 / Time = 2:03,017
Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86 / Time = 2:01,890
Toyota MR2 1600G '86 / Time = 2:01,815

- Toyota MR'm working on it but a tough car balance
Toyotas are quoted excluding other tunings, some may amaze.
missed so honda will buy later

 

[Motor City Hami]

I think I would like to host a Mustang and Focus challenge just because I work with Ford.

Pro Class: Mustangs

Street Class: Focus

I need to work out some of the detail and need to look into how to equalize the cars a bit.

Any interest?