Forza 4 Nordschleife
- Thread starter azrael1965
- 340 comments
- 46,766 views
Just some quick input from someone who owns both GT5 and Forza, and has driven the 'ring in real life. (Albeit in a rental car and not balls to the wall.) For the record, I love both GT5 and Forza. I just recently bought an Xbox so I could get Forza 4. In the mean time, I have been hammering the 'ring on Forza 3 with a Porsche 550
Technically speaking, I also want to weigh in on the track width issue. I honestly believe that Forza's track width is exaggerated in places, and GT 5 is definitely narrow...or rather, the perception of track width in both games is off at times. Overall, I again prefer Forza's rendition of the 'ring, it somehow feels like I remember in real life. While GT 5's actual model of the 'ring is more accurate physically, there is something distorted about the way the cockpit view of the track comes at the driver. It seems like the track is flowing out of a pinhole, and it is really more difficult than it should be to see the track ahead. I don't know how else to put it. To me, it feels like the game is artificially limiting my ability to see to the level of a very near-sighted individual.
That is really hard and difficult to believe. Here is a video of a Driving/Racing Instructor who always drives the Ring as much more familiar with it than the odd person driving it. In the comments, he didn't consider Forza 3s representation of the Ring as very good at all.
EDIT: Here is his comment on Forza 3
"I played Forza and I can tel that some US based tracks like Road Atlanta are very accurate, but unfortunately Nurburgring not even close to the real one. I hope that some day they go to Germany and do some work to create world famous track in that game. When I see it, I call Forza a sim
krisa9977"
He is driving both in GT5 and in Real Life.
Now that is not to say that Forza 4 won't improve on this, but judging by the video, it doesn't look it.
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Yep, a real unbiased opinion right there.
Why do you see bias? He drives the Nurburgring often enough and is a teacher of the 'real thing'
He is a racing instructor.
He gives Forza 3 credit, in that the American tracks are very accurate. Its just that the track that he thinks would elevate the game, is not very accurate.
Would he not be biased if he said Forza 3 was really accurate? Is it only because, he said what he said?
It is my hope as well, that Forza 4 gets this track correct, however, judging by the video, I can barely even recognize it as the "RING"
Given that they did such an awesome job on some of the american tracks, would be it so much to ask?
- 1,983
- Ohio
- IceManPJN
- IceMan PJN
The problem with the wording that people use when criticizing FM's Nordschleife is that they make it sound like every aspect of it is wrong. They actually have the layout right as well as the basic topography. The problems, all of them, are all the same single issue: they selected the entire map (select all) and scaled it up a bit. This single move made for a greater total length (more miles), longer corners, and wider track. All Turn 10 needs to do is select the entire map and scale it back down to the real size and it's suddenly accurate in total length, size of corners, and track width. Then it just needs more detail in the little surface bumps.
The way people talk about it ("didn't consider [it's] representation... as very good at all") makes it sound like the corners are in the wrong places, turns going the wrong way, added or missing straights, and/or hills added/missing/incorrect. This is not the case. Forza's Nordschleife turns left where it should turn left, turns right where it should turn right, tightens where it should tighten, loosens when it should loosen, straightens when it should straighten, goes uphill when it should go uphill, and goes downhill when it should go downhill. It's problems are all a single matter of scale, rather than a list of problems.
- 3,181
- Atlanta, GA
- SolidSnake7735
Call me biased if you want (i don't care if i am), but after seeing this video i had to laugh at Turn 10's cheap attempt at recreating the legendary Green Hell.
Sure it goes up and down, left and right when it should. But the scale is what matters most when its a track that's so big!!
That's why i will forever be a GT-faithful. Even though it took 6 years for GT5 to release after GT4, that's the time it took them to recreate every turn, bump and nuance of the Nurburgring. Every kink, every tree, every building off in the distance. Patience isn't my greatest virtue but a wise man once said the greatest things in life are worth waiting for
So... Microsoft/Turn 10 releasesa new Forza every year or so... while SONY/Poliphony Digital release a new Gran Turismo whenever they feel like it. Or better said, whenever the time FEELS RIGHT. Or even better said, when the developers feel the game is what it should be.. living to their mantra.. The Real Driving Simulator.
Now, this isn't without saying that Forza is a well-made game with great car models, impressively-decent graphics, and decent physics. It's just not on the technical level that Gran Turismo 5 is... it's a long ways off.
Please, don't reply to me with no talk of graphics because what you can do with GT5's photomode is far more impressive (with some photography know-how) than what Autovista can show you.
Though, please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Sure it goes up and down, left and right when it should. But the scale is what matters most when its a track that's so big!!
That's why i will forever be a GT-faithful. Even though it took 6 years for GT5 to release after GT4, that's the time it took them to recreate every turn, bump and nuance of the Nurburgring. Every kink, every tree, every building off in the distance. Patience isn't my greatest virtue but a wise man once said the greatest things in life are worth waiting for
So... Microsoft/Turn 10 releasesa new Forza every year or so... while SONY/Poliphony Digital release a new Gran Turismo whenever they feel like it. Or better said, whenever the time FEELS RIGHT. Or even better said, when the developers feel the game is what it should be.. living to their mantra.. The Real Driving Simulator.
Now, this isn't without saying that Forza is a well-made game with great car models, impressively-decent graphics, and decent physics. It's just not on the technical level that Gran Turismo 5 is... it's a long ways off.
Please, don't reply to me with no talk of graphics because what you can do with GT5's photomode is far more impressive (with some photography know-how) than what Autovista can show you.
Though, please, correct me if I'm wrong.
- 1,274
- Chicagoland, IL USA
- oldmodelt
That is not the point though. Forza 3, had some really fantastic recreations. The driver even admitted this. But when it came to this track, the granddaddy of all tracks, they sort of just dropped the ball.
They could have done a lot better.
- 1,391
- Chicago
- Silberc
- Silberc
Actually GT5 isn't on the technical level of T10, especially since it takes PD 6 years to make 200 cars, while it takes T10 2 years to make 500+
Also, I have the same gripe with PD
Why is Laguna Seca so far off?
The best track and it's not even fairly represented?
pfft, I shake my head at PD
I still don't understand why that would be considered bias? I would also add that a proper recreation of this track would put Forza into the "sim" category. Of course, there is hyperbole in the statement, but given that the track has a lot of meaning to many, it seems almost ridiculous to think they would just lazily --recreate it.
They have the ability to recreate the track properly. Criticism shouldn't be against those who notice that the track isn't 'quite right'-- but rather, it should be leveled at those who choose not to recreate the track properly even though they have the power to do so.
- 1,391
- Chicago
- Silberc
- Silberc
Much shorter track of course. But yes, I agree, they were a little bit sloppy there, but not as sloppy as what happened with the Nurburgring--that is a lot of track to mess up on...
Here is a video where someone who drives these tracks compares. The car behaves much like in real life, and of course, there are differences with Laguna....that i wont dispute
However--His best lap time is very, very close to the game and in real....1:42.925 in GT5
1:42.9xx in Real Life
- 1,391
- Chicago
- Silberc
- Silberc
It's not hard to recreate a lap time, I'm sure I can run that same lap with FM
in fact I will try on FM4 tomorow....
Also, even more of a reason to get the track right. It's shorter, plus the only thing wrong with the RIng is that it's wider. Theyve also said it's done on purpose. Maybe they should rename the toll road "Pigs Head Overrated Road"?
in fact I will try on FM4 tomorow....
Also, even more of a reason to get the track right. It's shorter, plus the only thing wrong with the RIng is that it's wider. Theyve also said it's done on purpose. Maybe they should rename the toll road "Pigs Head Overrated Road"?
He is not just driving in a sim though. He is driving the two cars, the same models and coming up with very similar times.
Edit: He has also set the configuration of the cars to be very similar
- 1,391
- Chicago
- Silberc
- Silberc
That proves nothing, like I said I can run those times with the same mods easy, just driving isnt the only factor in a lap time you know....Also, I can run similar lap times with many real world or GT5 lap times in similar cars too, but yet the RIng is soo far off?
- 2,414
Come on, you realize what's going on right? You're not even having a debate right now. You might be, but not "all parties" are. Stop wasting your time. Speaking of wasting time, sorry I didn't get to run with you tonight. Got caught up checking the update on GT5. Me and zr1chris probably could have spent our time better racing with you. lol. Not that's all bad, physics are definitely getting better but the rest of the stuff , meh.
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- 314
if it's that easy, so why dont just do it and make people like me shut up?
I just want a Nordschleife with the correct length at least so that i get lap times compareable to real life results.
- 770
The lap times are already comparable with real life
Thought I'd leave this little note.
A lot of the supposed inaccuracies are purely down to the default field of view Forza uses. It's very, very wide and is used to try and give a sense of speed.
Default FoV
Adjusted
Thought I'd leave this little note.
A lot of the supposed inaccuracies are purely down to the default field of view Forza uses. It's very, very wide and is used to try and give a sense of speed.
Default FoV
Adjusted
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- 11,281
- Sweden
- eran0004
The lap times are already comparable with real life
Not if the map scale is inaccurate.
- 314
How can they be , when the track size is incorrect? Sure there are drivers in GT and Forza who are 20 or more seconds faster than the majority of player. I don't remember correctly but i believe there are guys who lap the Nordschleife with a stock GT-R in GT5 in 7:10, while a lot of players even struggle with 7:29. At least i did. So sure there are people in Forza too, who drive faster then the real time records even with a longer track, but it still doesn't have the correct length. At least people like me with mediocre skill will always be 20 seconds too slow. And this will be the case for the majority of the estimated 6 million buyers as well. I don't expect to be as fast as the record holders in real life but at least i should get near to the results achieved in magazines like sport auto, where the car is not pushed to its limit.The lap times are already comparable with real life
I want the correct width and i don't need this sense of speed ****. Leave this to Shift please.
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- 770
Except for 1 area, the track is around 15% wider which equates to an almost unnoticeable difference of half a car width.
- 314
A half a car width and 15% is fairly noticeable to me, you have to drive differently if you have 1m of more space and as i said before my main issue is not the tracks width but its length which is also incorrect. As someone else suggested maybe they should have just shrunk the track.
- 2,729
- Sele1981
The lap times are already comparable with real life
Thought I'd leave this little note.
A lot of the supposed inaccuracies are purely down to the default field of view Forza uses. It's very, very wide and is used to try and give a sense of speed.
You can not compare lap times with 2 different tracks... The corners in FM Nordschleife are so wide and easy... Thy physics (in FM3) are more like Need for Speed Undercover or so, you can drive like an animal... T10 must have implemented something hidden to match lap times to real life...
- 770
- 4,038
- United States
Sele1981
Yeah. Ah. No.
- 6,838
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- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Why do you keep doing it? You keep pulling these statements from out of no where about the game and it's just so far from the truth that it's embarrassing. And all you do is prove time and time again that you have zero credibility and you receive zero respect from most in this debate as a result. We get you don't like FM and that's fine, your entitled to your opinion. However, try and come up with something tangible to enhance your opinions. At the moment it's just 'I don't like FM so therefore GT must be the best.'
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