Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Sorry, double post. please delete.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Wait, once again, I'm horribly confused: do you have Forza 4?

If you don't, then this entire discussion (especially points on your behalf) is nothing but hearsay; and, no, the Nurburgring hasn't been cloudy for over four years in Forza.

The point I have been trying to make with this guy. Look at his participation on ForzaPlanet - nothing but posts in the GT vs Forza thread. Seems like a clear agenda to me...

So I own both and can give a verdict of my own.
Graphics: Inconclusive, Am running GT5 on an HDTV and FM4 on an old CRT TV. Forza looks good though, even in 480p.
Sound: Forza, no doubt. V10s have the distinctive exhaust note that is not seen in GT. You can hear the howl of a V12 and the high RPM buzz of a rotary. In GT5, the cars sound like blenders (but the transmission and turbos sound better in GT than FM).
Car Selection: Tough decision, GT5 has more cars (although I heard FM4 had 1000 liscensed cars, its more like 500-600) and yes, I know that GT has the Veyron as a (gasp) standard car, and that there are 45 different types of Mazda Miata, but GT has more cars and a better spread. Also, GT is still coming out with new DLC every month (two months?) and new cars coming with each update. GT5 wins this challenge.
Tracks: GT5, more tracks but less layouts. Also has the underwhelming course maker, at least it makes new tracks, even if they are not quite what you wanted.
Driving Dynamics: (settings: all aids off except for ABS) Tie, Forza has better over/understeer on cars, but gets way too slidey when you floor it in any car (didn't think you could get such a big slide in a Nissan Leaf did you?).
Forza has the vibration in the controller, which is good for telling you the wheels are spinning, but some cars just spin the tires endlessly (Maxed out Spark FWD, 568 hp) and race tires do no good in controlling them, and your hand gets numb. ABS is impossible to work with in FM4 and very easy in GT5. GT5 also has over/understeer and spinning tires, but much less, plus, race tires actually give good grip. GT5 has much more realistic smoke from the tires (thick and hard to see through). GT5 is more controllable and much easier when driving at full speed or when drifting (very hard in Forza). However, Forza can be more fun, driving a 1000 hp camaro at 250mph is just more exciting when you know the wheels could slide out from under you at any moment. Forza is exciting (huge slides) , GT5 is rewarding (fast lap times)
Tuning: Forza, GT5 has good tuning but FM4 takes it farther. GT5 does not have things such as drivetrain or engine swaps, there is only 1 type of supercharger and 3 turbos (low, mid, and high RPM).
Ease of Use: On a small TV, GT5 is infinitely better, large buttons and text, matched to menus that use the whole screen are much better than Tiny bars on the side of the screen (usually cut 1/2 off on mine. anyone know how to change the useable screen size?) and miniscule text that is impossible to read.
Overall: GT5, more cars, more tracks, a more rewarding and easier drive, and easier use prevails over good sound, slightly better tuning, and all premium cars.

Wow... but it's your opinion. Do you use a wheel with GT5?

There are a couple points you make that are in striking contrast to mine. The car selection is SO much better in Forza (IMO) - unless you are an Asian player then I could understand your preference to the GT car selection. And regarding the interface, WOW, I despise the GT menu system. It seems to have been built for mouse use. You can't just navigate left/right up/down. And sometimes the back button takes you er..back, sometimes it doesn't, and ... To each their own but again I hate that interface so much it is one of the things (sounds also) that stopped me from playing.

 

[omgitsbees]

The interface in GT5 is terrible, and if you are playing on a SDTV, which it sounds like mrluckypants is, then you really can't hold that against Forza. That's your problem if you are. Don't blame Forza for that. Current generation games are made with HDTVs in mind.

[edit]
Actually, durr, he said he is. God knows why when he admits to having an HDTV at the sametime.

 

[high_end]

I picked Forza up for my gf's son for xmas and got to spend most of the weekend with it...while the interface is very streamlined and clean i dont see how gt5's menus are horrible...granted i picked up gt5 a week before spec 2.0 even then it didnt bother me with the loadtimes...post update its even better and have never experienced any menu glitches or user-unfriendliness...maybe im old and dealing with windows 3.1/95 spoiled me but whats truly wrong with gt5's interface? i find it to be very pleasant as is forza's...they are just different

Also i love the car selection in both games with a nod towards forza's bigger muscle car selection

 

[ERIC11940]

If Hennessey86 is reading this, then I must agree with you on Forza 4.

I've enjoyed GT5 for about a year, but I was very disappointed that it doesn't have enough Events and Tracks, bad engine sounds and for the fact that some of the cars such as the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 and the DMC Delorean S2 didn't make it as Premium Cars.

Forza 4 may pull ahead easily, but I sure hope PD's upcoming title, "Gran Turismo 6" will have alot of improvements from GT5.

 

[Northstar]

unless you are an Asian player then I could understand your preference to the GT car selection.

Have to say, in my opinion at least the car selection is about even. Forza 4 does an amazingly good job getting muscle cars and newer race cars in while GT5 does well at classics from Asia and classic race cars(love the selection of Group B and C cars).

Unfortunately, European classics end up getting mostly neglected in both games.

(If you couldn't tell, I'm biased towards older cars and race cars )

 

[omgitsbees]

Also i love the car selection in both games with a nod towards forza's bigger muscle car selection

But no nod to Forza's much more well rounded and balanced car list overall? GT5 has a really awful car selection. You'll know what I mean when you come across 20 different Mazda Miata's that are all basically the same.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Why yes, yes I do. I know your going to say GT5 has night and day cycles on selected tracks but Forza is even worse. Forza has different pre-baked times which are too on selected tracks (as far as I know do not know 100%). No dynamic times or shadows on selected tracks. I read somewhere that the Nurburgring has been cloudy in Forza for over 4 years now. The weather aint that dreary over there.

You have an excellent point. GT definitely nails it, Fuji is always perfectly sunny.

(This is where your brand of logic takes us)

I'll readily admit GT's 'Ring is the superior track, no questions, but the game is more than that and Le Mans. The AI is still awful, the car sounds are mostly inaccurate and resemble kitchen appliances more than anything else once tuned, and it still has some very serious framerate issues due to the weather and ToD loads. It's simply a question of if that's a worthy price for people or not.

Oh, and... it's funny you should mention the FM3 UC Edition, since PD seems to like that plan.

As for car selection, and which game is "best" - I think instead of people counting cars, or saying which has the wider spread, what works very well for me is just comparing which game has the least amount of cars versus the other game that I'd be willing to play without. GT slightly loses on this front - it has some cars I'm very sad aren't in FM4, and probably won't ever be (Galant GTO MR, Cappuccino, 155 DTM, a few others), but FM4 has a whole helping of cars I have no access to in GT. And with FM4's superior tuning options, I can recreate certain cars, too - I have an FTO that, looks aside, is almost identical to the FTO Super Touring from GT4. But I've also got an E30 M3, a brace of classic Ferraris, an Escort RS1800, and a bunch more. The new DLC pack is a 9/10 for me for interesting cars, as well.

 

[high_end]

Its not the sort of thing that would bother me too much in these games...if forza had 30 versions of the same camaro its the same deal...there are other things that are more important to me in a driving game than car selection which is why i havent bought forza for myself even though i like forza's car list more

 

[Patrick]

I read somewhere that GT5's car list is like 60% imports.

 

[omgitsbees]

I read somewhere that GT5's car list is like 60% imports.

Over 60% is Japanese, with over 180 Nissans, a lot of them are Skylines, with the same models, but a Japanese and then American version. Basically a right and left side steering wheel... on STANDARD cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Over 60% is Japanese, with over 180 Nissans, a lot of them are Skylines, with the same models, but a Japanese and then American version. Basically a right and left side steering wheel... on STANDARD cars.

Actually, the Skyline's the one car that doesn't happen with

There are still far too many models of it though, but in PD's defense, Kaz had an interview at some point post-release saying they're going to be moving away from that endless copying from GT4. Forza has a handful of the same sort of the thing (mostly the Aussie Touring Cars, which really should just be skins, the SuperGT cars, and the Speedster/VX220 Turbo), but yes, nothing compares to the myriad different Miatas/Roadsters/MX-5's. The first-gen being the absolute worst, as really, we wouldn't need more than 2 models - one 1.6L, one 1.8L, since there's minimal modelling differences between the two, but even then, most people wouldn't be bothered by the MK1 having a lone model.

 

[hennessey86]

If Hennessey86 is reading this, then I must agree with you on Forza 4.

I've enjoyed GT5 for about a year, but I was very disappointed that it doesn't have enough Events and Tracks, bad engine sounds and for the fact that some of the cars such as the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 and the DMC Delorean S2 didn't make it as Premium Cars.

Forza 4 may pull ahead easily, but I sure hope PD's upcoming title, "Gran Turismo 6" will have alot of improvements from GT5.

I am glad you had a read of it, it seems most people have come in this thread to troll and nothing else

 

[HBK]

I actually like the visual design of GT5 menus. Looks slick (even if the main GT Mode menu looks like a discount store). But that's about it. They're slow as hell, overly counterintuitive, and the associated loading times are properly insane.

 

[t.o.]

Actually, the Skyline's the one car that doesn't happen with

There are still far too many models of it though, but in PD's defense, Kaz had an interview at some point post-release saying they're going to be moving away from that endless copying from GT4. Forza has a handful of the same sort of the thing (mostly the Aussie Touring Cars, which really should just be skins, the SuperGT cars, and the Speedster/VX220 Turbo), but yes, nothing compares to the myriad different Miatas/Roadsters/MX-5's. The first-gen being the absolute worst, as really, we wouldn't need more than 2 models - one 1.6L, one 1.8L, since there's minimal modelling differences between the two, but even then, most people wouldn't be bothered by the MK1 having a lone model.

In defense of the V8 Supercars I'm glad they did what they did. For visual purposes only it's great to have all those different skins with the windows having decals and windshields also. Makes for great photos and movies. Unfortunately we're not able to paint on glass otherwise they could have done it like the NASCAR cars and let the user make their own skins.

 

[Luminis]

Why do you think people hated the UC. Its because it had exclusive DLC. Here you are again making up complete lies. No where did it say that the XL will contain exclusive DLC so it is not like the UC at all. Pretty sad you have to actually lie to make your point seem credible.

Considering that the contents of the XL edition hasn't even been confirmed yet, you're awfully fast to call people liers. But well, there's always the glowing adoration of Kaz

Sigh. See its stupid humour....anyone can do it.

If you think so

Im curious would you rather have no cockpit or a blacked out cockpit with mirrors, and general outline because the majority of GT5 fanbase wanted something like this so do PD try and please their fanbase or the people who dont even like the game hmmmm tough question. (/s)

How about (gasp) car models of consisting quality? Because, you know, quality > quantity. Then again, bullet points on the back of the box are most important, I guess.

[edit]
Actually, durr, he said he is. God knows why when he admits to having an HDTV at the sametime.

Didn't get that, either. That's why I didn't feel like arguing about the conclusion, if both games are being compared under different circumstances.

Forza 4 may pull ahead easily, but I sure hope PD's upcoming title, "Gran Turismo 6" will have alot of improvements from GT5.

I do hope so, too. If GT6 gets to fix most of what I perceive as being wrong with GT5, I'll be happy to give thr GT franchise another go.

Unfortunately, European classics end up getting mostly neglected in both games.

They do seem to start adding more classics with the DLC packs now, fortunately. But, yeah, lots of good stuff still missing.

Oh, and... it's funny you should mention the FM3 UC Edition, since PD seems to like that plan.

Careful now, you'll have a certain someone at your throat for likening the two

In defense of the V8 Supercars I'm glad they did what they did. For visual purposes only it's great to have all those different skins with the windows having decals and windshields also. Makes for great photos and movies. Unfortunately we're not able to paint on glass otherwise they could have done it like the NASCAR cars and let the user make their own skins.

Shift 2 did that rather well: you would buy a car and then get to pick one of the default liveries. Would've probably been the best solution, in terms of "honesty" of the car list.

 

[somebodysb2]

As a GT convert, I have to side with Forza for this generation, it feels more complete, and I really enjoy the customization. Only thing that FM4 is lacking for me is tracks, night racing, and rain which I miss dearly from GT5. They also need to model more prototypes...adding the old R15 as DLC when the R18 is out? really T10? cause what you are essentially paying for is added canards and a paint job you can get from the storefront..

not to mention the 160 point increase for DLC D:

 

[cuco33]

As a GT convert, I have to side with Forza for this generation, it feels more complete, and I really enjoy the customization. Only thing that FM4 is lacking for me is tracks, night racing, and rain which I miss dearly from GT5. They also need to model more prototypes...adding the old R15 as DLC when the R18 is out? really T10? cause what you are essentially paying for is added canards and a paint job you can get from the storefront..

not to mention the 160 point increase for DLC D:

The Audi R15 that came with the game at launch and the R15+ which came in the November DLC are very different cars. They aren't just essentially adding canards and a paintjob.

R15:

R15+:

The R15+ also ran at the 2011 12 Hours of Sebring whereas the R18 first competed in a race at Spa 2011 (1000km)

I'm with you in wanting more prototypes. I REALLY want the R18 but I also want a lot of the older prototypes (P1 & P2). The more the merrier! I also don't get why there's a price discrepancy between buying individual cars as street cars are cheaper than race cars apparently.

 

[somebodysb2]

I know that..but inputting different values into a slightly different model isn't exactly hard is it?

note that I'm talking about effort and difficulty, not the car itself.

 

[cuco33]

I know that..but inputting different values into a slightly different model isn't exactly hard is it?

note that I'm talking about effort and difficulty, not the car itself.

They aren't just slightly different models. One version has the aero going through the car a whole lot more, completely different 'nose' and front, different intake scoops, differences in the bodies, etc. It really is very much different. I'd peg the easier modeling means in FM4 to go with the Scirroco and the DLC Scirroco R where the bulk of the model remains the same, of course with different values.

If we're discussing padding the numbers up with duplicates and whatnot, both FM4 and GT5 are guilty of this but GT5 is by far the guiltiest racer out there. Ford GT vs Ford GT no stripe. All those Skylines, Miatas, Civics, etc. Different liveries on the same car (which every racer is guilty of). Race mods of an existing car. Standard vs premium variant of the same car. Etc, etc..

 

[somebodysb2]

Well you obviously haven't modelled anything before. Think of it as the new Red bull car in GT5 DLC.

EDIT: Since Turn10 outsources their work, a fresh model would probably take from 2-3 days up to a week (a solid, well modelled, textured car).

 

[t.o.]

Shift 2 did that rather well: you would buy a car and then get to pick one of the default liveries. Would've probably been the best solution, in terms of "honesty" of the car list.

Yeah I'll have to agree with that. I think the V8's have slightly different cockpits for some of the different manufacturer cockpits. I know between the Ford and Vauxhall there is and I think a few models in each might be slightly different. I could be wrong there though. In any case that could have been tied into the livery method you described.

 

[cuco33]

Well you obviously haven't modelled anything before. Think of it as the new Red bull car in GT5 DLC.

EDIT: Since Turn10 outsources their work, a fresh model would probably take from 2-3 days up to a week (a solid, well modelled, textured car).

I have modeled before. I'm an engineer and have used 3D modeling software quite a lot in my years (ProE, SolidWorks).
The X1 2011 is a few tweaks to what existed in X1 2010. New rear spoiler and 'jet engine', slight other differences to what is already there. The R15 and R15+ are a lot more different than the X1 update. I'm a big Audi fan, and enduro fan. There are more differences between the R15+ and the R15 than you think, is all I'm saying.

T10 oursourcing work is nothing more than proper management of resources. When you want to have more output you either grow the core team or outsource. PD decided to do neither while taking in more work. The result? GT5 in the state we got it, and in the state we have it now after 13 months of patches. The outsourcing and 'bigger team' excuse from GT fans is nothing more than excuses. Maybe PD should have focused on their core business, video game development, before taking on ALL of the work they took on.

 

[somebodysb2]

Where the hell did I state outsourcing is bad?

 

[cuco33]

I didn't say you said it was bad. I simply replied to your post about T10 outsourcing their work and getting those models out in a quicker time. Just making a point is all because I'm sick and tired of the excuses that GT fans make for PD and GT, as it comes up quite often.
My response has always been, with PD being a bigger company, a more successful company, and one with more funds at their disposal, why couldn't PD outsource or grow their staff?

 

[omgitsbees]

They also need to model more prototypes...

For a second there I thought you meant GT5, because that would be true in that case. But you seriously think Forza 4 doesn't have enough prototypes? Really? If anything, it has way to many, but with that said, it is badly missing some Group-C prototypes.

Well you obviously haven't modelled anything before. Think of it as the new Red bull car in GT5 DLC.

EDIT: Since Turn10 outsources their work, a fresh model would probably take from 2-3 days up to a week (a solid, well modelled, textured car).

The game industry doesn't work the way you think it does.

 

[somebodysb2]

For a second there I thought you meant GT5, because that would be true in that case. But you seriously think Forza 4 doesn't have enough prototypes? Really? If anything, it has way to many, but with that said, it is badly missing some Group-C prototypes.

The game industry doesn't work the way you think it does.

Well Forza could do a 787B...

and tell me, how is it supposed to work? everything is about money and efficiency, I was simply stating the effort/time need to build X car.

 

[t.o.]

I didn't say you said it was bad. I simply replied to your post about T10 outsourcing their work and getting those models out in a quicker time. Just making a point is all because I'm sick and tired of the excuses that GT fans make for PD and GT, as it comes up quite often.
My response has always been, with PD being a bigger company, a more successful company, and one with more funds at their disposal, why couldn't PD outsource or grow their staff?

I hear what you're saying 100 percent. You read this on GT boards and it's posted as if Turn10 cheated or something. "T10 outsources their cars that's why they have all the cars at top level. PD doesn't do that, they do all their own work in-house. You can't expect PD to do that many cars .. blah blah blah"
If that's the case the Kaz "cheated" when he hired a staff.

 

[omgitsbees]

I hear what you're saying 100 percent. You read this on GT boards and it's posted as if Turn10 cheated or something. "T10 outsources their cars that's why they have all the cars at top level. PD doesn't do that, they do all their own work in-house. You can't expect PD to do that many cars .. blah blah blah"
If that's the case the Kaz "cheated" when he hired a staff.

I wish Kaz would stop being brought up as the mastermind behind Gran Turismo. If anything, he was barely involved in the development of GT5, especially in the last year leading up to its release. In 2010 alone, he took part in two 24 hour endurance races. The guy spends all of his time out of the office looking at cars and doing his own professional career racing. It's no wonder GT5 shipped in such a messy state, PD didn't have a manager who did his freaking job.

 

[Luminis]

Well Forza could do a 787B...

According to BADNED, the 787B will be added to FM4 as DLC, and his predictions usually come true.

I wish Kaz would stop being brought up as the mastermind behind Gran Turismo. If anything, he was barely involved in the development of GT5, especially in the last year leading up to its release. In 2010 alone, he took part in two 24 hour endurance races. The guy spends all of his time out of the office looking at cars and doing his own professional career racing. It's no wonder GT5 shipped in such a messy state, PD didn't have a manager who did his freaking job.

You will get attacked for this. I guess that's worse than what Denmark did with Allah. To some folks, at least.