Forza Motorsport Single-Player Mode Revealed: Car Leveling, Car Points, Online Saves, & More

[ImaRobot]

The always online issue it’s a problem for me… I mean it’s 2023 it is what it is… My problem is I like to collect the same cars and tune them different.. to have to level up the same car maybe three times and maybe do the same races or take the same path to upgrade them is going to be a killer. I can see if I maxed out a car and if I buy that same exact car the upgrades were already available, but that will not be the case… we have to start from level 1 and upgrade the car. In GT7 we can upgrade cars in seconds put them in a custom race grid and race.

Yeah not really liking that either. Worst comes to worst, you'd just have to utilize the save function that the games have had for a while with modifying/tuning vehicles.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I have no issue with an always online game, it’s 2023, nearly everything is connected to the internet.

Not 100% sold on the idea of this car XP system but I’ll reserve judgment until I put some time in. I guess Turn 10 are trying to do something different to the template set out by Gran Turismo.

And imo, GT7 (single player) could have benefited from utilising their, in place for online races, qualifying system. As well as standing starts, I hate the catch the leader format used for 90% of the career races.

Something for GT7: Spec 2, but I digress.

I’m looking forward to Forza 👍

Will you be saying the same thing when the game gets delisted once the licences expire. Offline save equals no problem. Online save equals losing access to the game you paid for.

 

[phillgt2002]

This just feel like FM3/4/5/6/7, with just a little polish for new generation consoles.

Having played Assetto Corsa and Beamng, mods and full customization of the game's physics, AI, assets and environments is all I care about now.

 

[Eggstor]

The save game thing isn't an issue. To me, it looks like they looked at the worst aspects of GT7, and did the opposite.

The "online only" save thing isn't an issue...until something happens between your console's/PC's network software and the game server (and that's more links than you think) that breaks the online connection. If there truly is no local save (which is an option on Microsoft's OneDrive service), it is a worse solution than GT7's virtual-online-only "solution", where there is a local save, but it's only updated if the online save can also be updated and only truly accessible if the servers are available.

Another question is what happens if that connection is lost mid-race - in GT7, one at least gets to continue and hope the connection gets restored before quitting the game so progress is saved (which doesn't work too well if the disconnection is because the game is being updated).

While there is a small bit of forking in the Builders Cup (the race portion of the original 39 Menu Books in GT7), it looks quite linear. It's also unclear how much of the rest of the content is locked behind progress in the Builders Cup (cough...Brand Central, tracks and Hagerty's in GT7...cough).

The worst part is the car tuning - one has to race each car, whether or not one already owns and has upgraded another copy of the same car, in order to access (with that specific car's "car experience points") and buy (with separately-earned car credits...er...points, not general credits, which sounds like is tracked separately for each car you own) tuning parts. On GT7, once one hits the Collector Level metric, each category of parts is unlocked and purchasable with standard credits for every single car. On the plus side here, pulling a part from the car does return that car's car points, and there is an "easy" button that is supposedly geared toward a "balanced" build.

I will grant that as far as getting general credits, having variability by adjusting the AI (which, if it truly is rubber-band free, is another plus), race options, and getting a larger podium bonus from choosing to start further back (as well as the ability to start where one wants instead of always playing "Catch the Rabbit") are pluses. The overall economy is something that, as the early-access reviewers of GT7 found out, something that can't really be evaluated until the game goes live. However, that credits payout didn't look too promising, and it looks like there's a total of 4 separate economies to keep track of, including "drivers points", the purpose of which is unclear (at least 1/4th the way through the Twitch stream)

Further, there is a pay-to-win element beyond the 30-car/30-week car pass and car packs - a 2x general credits bonus (and 5 additional cars) available only for either those who pay $30 more than the cost of the base version (and $10 more than the deluxe version, which gives the car pass) or those who pay $39.95 to add it onto the free-for-XBox Game Pass base version.

 

[ImaRobot]

Further, there is a pay-to-win element beyond the 30-car/30-week car pass and car packs - a 2x general credits bonus (and 5 additional cars) available only for either those who pay $30 more than the cost of the base version (and $10 more than the deluxe version, which gives the car pass) or those who pay $39.95 to add it onto the free-for-XBox Game Pass base version.

Yeah, no. That's not pay to win.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The "online only" save thing isn't an issue...until something happens between your console's/PC's network software and the game server (and that's more links than you think) that breaks the online connection. If there truly is no local save (which is an option on Microsoft's OneDrive service), it is a worse solution than GT7's virtual-online-only "solution", where there is a local save, but it's only updated if the online save can also be updated and only truly accessible if the servers are available.

Another question is what happens if that connection is lost mid-race - in GT7, one at least gets to continue and hope the connection gets restored before quitting the game so progress is saved (which doesn't work too well if the disconnection is because the game is being updated).

While there is a small bit of forking in the Builders Cup (the race portion of the original 39 Menu Books in GT7), it looks quite linear. It's also unclear how much of the rest of the content is locked behind progress in the Builders Cup (cough...Brand Central, tracks and Hagerty's in GT7...cough).

The worst part is the car tuning - one has to race each car, whether or not one already owns and has upgraded another copy of the same car, in order to access (with that specific car's "car experience points") and buy (with separately-earned car credits...er...points, not general credits, which sounds like is tracked separately for each car you own) tuning parts. On GT7, once one hits the Collector Level metric, each category of parts is unlocked and purchasable with standard credits for every single car. On the plus side here, pulling a part from the car does return that car's car points, and there is an "easy" button that is supposedly geared toward a "balanced" build.

I will grant that as far as getting general credits, having variability by adjusting the AI (which, if it truly is rubber-band free, is another plus), race options, and getting a larger podium bonus from choosing to start further back (as well as the ability to start where one wants instead of always playing "Catch the Rabbit") are pluses. The overall economy is something that, as the early-access reviewers of GT7 found out, something that can't really be evaluated until the game goes live. However, that credits payout didn't look too promising, and it looks like there's a total of 4 separate economies to keep track of, including "drivers points", the purpose of which is unclear (at least 1/4th the way through the Twitch stream)

Further, there is a pay-to-win element beyond the 30-car/30-week car pass and car packs - a 2x general credits bonus (and 5 additional cars) available only for either those who pay $30 more than the cost of the base version (and $10 more than the deluxe version, which gives the car pass) or those who pay $39.95 to add it onto the free-for-XBox Game Pass base version.

I've never had an online save requirement game go wrong in that aspect. So it's a non issue to me.

Also, where did you get pay to win from? That's not even remotely close to being pay to win. Iirc from the stream, there's no MTX at all.

 

[Eggstor]

Yeah, no. That's not pay to win.

I've never had an online save requirement game go wrong in that aspect. So it's a non issue to me.

Also, where did you get pay to win from? That's not even remotely close to being pay to win. Iirc from the stream, there's no MTX at all.

It may not be MTX, but it's a permanent bonus one can only get by, presumably only before the game launches based on the early-access aspect, giving Microsoft a bunch more money than the average player will. That is the very definition of pay-to-win.

The closest thing to that in GT7 is the 25th-anniversary version of the Toyota GR Yaris obtainable by buying one of the two deluxe versions, which gained some performance sometime after launch, as at launch, it had the same Performance Points as the one in Brand Central. The other 3 cars (available pre-order only, and available at no additional cost on all three versions, including the base version) all have the exact same performance as their Brand Central counterparts, even the "stealth" version of the RX-Vision GT3, which is a distinct model.

@MagpieRacer, you mean you never had your internet go down or had the server go down while you were playing an online-required game? I would love to have that level of connectivity.

 

[SU_Tempest]

It may not be MTX, but it's a permanent bonus one can only get by, presumably only before the game launches based on the early-access aspect, giving Microsoft a bunch more money than the average player will. That is the very definition of pay-to-win.

The closest thing to that in GT7 is the 25th-anniversary version of the Toyota GR Yaris obtainable by buying one of the two deluxe versions, which gained some performance somewhere after launch.

If the only thing credits can buy you in FM is cars, and you have to earn your upgrades by actually playing and earning a different currency, then it's even less pay-to-win than the already close-to-meaningless 2x credit bonus we have in FH5 when you pay for VIP. If it works like it does with previous games, it is also not a preorder-only purchase. Assuming the credit earning rate doesn't require you to toil away for hours for each car like a certain other racing game, it is not the "pay-to-win" problem you think it is.

As for the car pass, that depends on whether the cars in the car pass for FM are even remotely close to being meta, but with 30 exclusive cars vs. the 500 in the base game, I'm not holding my breath. It's probably just gonna be "here's those cool cars have fun with that."

 

[KiroKai]

Yay online-only, another AAA-practice gets added to Forza to normalise the behaviour. Because FOMO and slot machines and DLC on top of DLC just weren't enough.

Plenty services are unreliably tied to the servers as it is, through large parts of FM5's & 7's career I was racing grids of plain matte red cars or other basic colours, with maybe one or two actual popular designs appearing. The other option was racing cars in stock colours and racecars in standard livery. It added to the feel of Drivatars being very generic. And FM7 wasn't even old when I played it.

As for the game itself, looks decent, will try it on Gamepass. Do we know if there will be a demo?

I actually like the online saves. When my PS5 bricked I was able to immediately jump to my PS4 to play GT7 with all my saved content. Got a new hard drive on my PS5 installed and retain all the data. It's convenient. You can also jump to friend's PS5 and load up your account easily.

Xbox already solved this a while ago, since the start of Xbox One all local saves are also backed up to the cloud automatically. It's part of the Xbox Live service and offers exactly this convenience for all your games.

Online-only is to stop all the cheating.

But it won't achieve any of that, all relevant cheating is done online in real-time. At best they will have more control over cars saved in garages or credit balances, but it's hardly worth reviewing those. It's very likely just DRM to increase control over non-Microsoft Store versions of the game.

10 years is a long time, I probably wont even own the console anymore and would have moved on to the next 2 generations that will likely span after that. I'll likely stop playing long before the servers close, and even then, I can imagine a scenario where they unlock that way later in the games life, like they did for GT in the past. Doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

Not too worried about Motorsport either since they're iterations of a similar concept, but what does this imply for Horizon's future?
Don't know if you played FH2 in recent years, with a system like this you probably wouldn't have been able to start it. The servers were down for months at a time throughout 2021/22. I played it, mostly offline, once every other month or so, and the forums raised the same issue - multiplayer worked rarely, other systems were down. I was convinced the design servers were taken down permanently as they had been offline the entire time as far as I could tell, but I went on this year and all systems were up and running; designs, messages - even still had dozens of Forza Rewards to claim from years prior.

It was a small inconvenience when I couldn't play it with friends on some occasions and when we could, we couldn't see each other's paints. But if the whole game was inaccessible for months?

I disagree about reliability not being a problem 'these days' as well - look at Watch Dogs Legion, that game came out in 2020 with a major gamebreaking bug where the online save sync with Ubisoft's server quietly stops working and you lose all further progress. The bug seems to affect all platforms. To this day there is no solution and they stopped patch support for the title.

Ironically the only solution seems to be to play it with the entire system offline.

 

[Eggstor]

If the only thing credits can buy you in FM is cars, and you have to earn your upgrades by actually playing and earning a different currency, then it's even less pay-to-win than the already close-to-meaningless 2x credit bonus we have in FH5 when you pay for VIP. If it works like it does with previous games, it is also not a preorder-only purchase. Assuming the credit earning rate doesn't require you to toil away for hours for each car like a certain other racing game, it is not the "pay-to-win" problem you think it is.

As for the car pass, that depends on whether the cars in the car pass for FM are even remotely close to being meta, but with 30 exclusive cars vs. the 500 in the base game, I'm not holding my breath. It's probably just gonna be "here's those cool cars have fun with that."

The worth of the 2x bonus (something never offered from PD/Sony) is dependent on the overall economy. If it takes more than a year of racing to fill up the garage like it does in GT7, the 2x is one hell of a pay-to-win incentive. If one can fill up the garage in, say, a couple months by racing, the 2x bonus won't be much of an incentive. As I said above, we won't truly know which is the case until the game drops, but judging by the single-race video, the credit-earning side appears to be even worse than the worst part of GT7 (custom single-player races).

Don't get me wrong - I like that Forza Motorsport won't have MTX (or loot boxes). As an aside, I didn't spend any money on MTX in GT7, and won't be doing so. Assuming the car packs are merely shortcuts to get content obtainable through playing the game, that's a "meh" as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SU_Tempest]

The worth of the 2x bonus (something never offered from PD/Sony) is dependent on the overall economy. If it takes more than a year of racing to fill up the garage like it does in GT7, the 2x is one hell of a pay-to-win incentive. If one can fill up the garage in, say, a couple months by racing, the 2x bonus won't be much of an incentive. As I said above, we won't truly know which is the case until the game drops, but judging by the single-race video, the credit-earning side appears to be even worse than the worst part of GT7.

Don't get me wrong - I like that Forza Motorsport won't have MTX (or loot boxes). As an aside, I didn't spend any money on MTX in GT7, and won't be doing so. Assuming the car packs are merely shortcuts to get content obtainable through playing the game, that's a "meh" as far as I'm concerned.

If the car pass works as it did the last two FH games, they'll be exclusive cars not otherwise obtainable. But by the same token, if FM continues along the same lines as the last two FH games, I'd be genuinely surprised if the gameplay loop suddenly took a turn to the long and grindy. Other than that I generally agree, the real first impressions will begin when you can play.

 

[Eggstor]

If the car pass works as it did the last two FH games, they'll be exclusive cars not otherwise obtainable. But by the same token, if FM continues along the same lines as the last two FH games, I'd be genuinely surprised if the gameplay loop suddenly took a turn to the long and grindy. Other than that I generally agree, the real first impressions will begin when you can play.

As I don't have any versions of Forza (no XBox consoles here, for one thing), I'd like a better definition of "exclusive" - is it a case of not being able to get a specific livery or not being able to get the car at all?

 

[JackRyanWMU]

I like there's a reason to to drive cars in stock form and experience what they're like in OEM spec rather than just running off and slapping a big honking turbo on it right away. Also the ability to choose where you start the race and how much challenge you want is leagues better than GT7's lazy "Chase The Rabbit" thing they've been doing since GT5. Heck, you could use a Random Number Generator to determine your "Qualifying" if you wanted to.

Gonna preorder on Steam as soon as it's available.

 

[ImaRobot]

Not too worried about Motorsport either since they're iterations of a similar concept, but what does this imply for Horizon's future?
Don't know if you played FH2 in recent years, with a system like this you probably wouldn't have been able to start it. The servers were down for months at a time throughout 2021/22. I played it, mostly offline, once every other month or so, and the forums raised the same issue - multiplayer worked rarely, other systems were down. I was convinced the design servers were taken down permanently as they had been offline the entire time as far as I could tell, but I went on this year and all systems were up and running; designs, messages - even still had dozens of Forza Rewards to claim from years prior.

It was a small inconvenience when I couldn't play it with friends on some occasions and when we could, we couldn't see each other's paints. But if the whole game was inaccessible for months?

I disagree about reliability not being a problem 'these days' as well - look at Watch Dogs Legion, that game came out in 2020 with a major gamebreaking bug where the online save sync with Ubisoft's server quietly stops working and you lose all further progress. The bug seems to affect all platforms. To this day there is no solution and they stopped patch support for the title.

Ironically the only solution seems to be to play it with the entire system offline.

Sure, we can make a bunch of hypotheticals around what could/couldn't happen, but until it does, I'm not too bothered by it. I just, for one, haven't kept playing games for so long that I manage to outlast their closing of the servers. Makes sense for a game that was no longer supported that came out nearly 10 years ago. If there's no one there to support the game when issues arise, then yeah, issues wont get fixed. Again, for a game like this, I'd imagine that they can just pull what GT did in this scenario with the always online functionality. Can I see the potential issue? Sure, but again, these issues don't seem to be so wide spread. Especially for me, so I can live with it.

Although, to point out. It sounds like you're having issues with games in general just losing support and not working anymore. Doesn't look like its tied much to online only, and more so, the amount of time a game is supported and how long you intend to play it, considering you're having similar issues with games that don't require this connectivity..

I never said reliability isn't a problem "these days." Though I'd hardly say save corruption is a thing only isolated to the fact that a game is online only.

It may not be MTX, but it's a permanent bonus one can only get by, presumably only before the game launches based on the early-access aspect, giving Microsoft a bunch more money than the average player will. That is the very definition of pay-to-win.

The closest thing to that in GT7 is the 25th-anniversary version of the Toyota GR Yaris obtainable by buying one of the two deluxe versions, which gained some performance sometime after launch, as at launch, it had the same Performance Points as the one in Brand Central. The other 3 cars (available pre-order only, and available at no additional cost on all three versions, including the base version) all have the exact same performance as their Brand Central counterparts, even the "stealth" version of the RX-Vision GT3, which is a distinct model.

@MagpieRacer, you mean you never had your internet go down or had the server go down while you were playing an online-required game? I would love to have that level of connectivity.

I didn't say MTx, and neither did you. You said Pay to win, and frankly it's not. Having extra credits isn't going to make you win races. Neither is having additional cars. I think its a bit ridiculous to think that, and the only alternative to that would always add DLC cars that are just absolute dog **** that no one cares about because people think that someone might be faster than them in a car. There will always be a meta, DLC or not, but just because it exist doesn't automatically mean it'll turn **** drivers into good ones.

@MagpieRacer, you mean you never had your internet go down or had the server go down while you were playing an online-required game? I would love to have that level of connectivity.

On my end, its very rare. If it does happen, I'll just go play something else for the time being. Not the end of the world.

The worth of the 2x bonus (something never offered from PD/Sony) is dependent on the overall economy. If it takes more than a year of racing to fill up the garage like it does in GT7, the 2x is one hell of a pay-to-win incentive. If one can fill up the garage in, say, a couple months by racing, the 2x bonus won't be much of an incentive. As I said above, we won't truly know which is the case until the game drops, but judging by the single-race video, the credit-earning side appears to be even worse than the worst part of GT7 (custom single-player races).

Forza has literally always thrown money at you like crazy. Every single game. It has been such a complete opposite of GT in every aspect that it likely shouldn't even be compared to at this point. You've played Forza right? Seeing their history, its not a thing I would worry about one single bit.

 

[05XR8]

Hope we find out if we can stick to one car, say an NA MX-5. Use it all the way up to a top level for completion. Not use the MX-5 to race hot hatchbacks up to LMH cars, but similar tuned road cars through to "the end".

 

[SU_Tempest]

As I don't have any versions of Forza (no XBox consoles here, for one thing), I'd like a better definition of "exclusive" - is it a case of not being able to get a specific livery or not being able to get the car at all?

The cars in the car pass cannot be obtained any other way. As far as FH4/FH5 was concerned, if you don't have it you can't buy the cars in it. If you do have the pass, you can buy the first copy of each car for 0 credits, then subsequent ones for whatever value they set each car.
Also going off FH4 and FH5, I've not really heard of a particular reason why you NEED a car pass car besides completionism. They were nice to have but not essential.

 

[McLaren]

Will you be saying the same thing when the game gets delisted once the licences expire. Offline save equals no problem. Online save equals losing access to the game you paid for.

I'm not sure it'll work directly like that. The game could be delisted but the servers containing your save stay up.

Or it could be like NBA 2K which requires online saves to access its VC currency which is how multiplayer & single player upgrades are bought. When 1 of the games gets delisted & the servers shut down though, the game creates an offline save where your VC converts to normal credits for use in single player. Offline saves were possible to be created before server shut downs when 2K servers were under-going maintenance or you had no internet for a moment, but nobody would allow the game to do so because once your VC gets converted to offline credits, that's it; you'd have to start earning new VC all over again. Doing it at the end-of-life though, wouldn't matter b/c VC's primary use is for multiplayer, so with that gone & no updates coming, doing an irreversible conversion to offline credits isn't an issue.

 

[Eggstor]

I didn't say MTx, and neither did you. You said Pay to win, and frankly it's not. Having extra credits isn't going to make you win races. Neither is having additional cars. I think its a bit ridiculous to think that, and the only alternative to that would always add DLC cars that are just absolute dog ** that no one cares about because people think that someone might be faster than them in a car. There will always be a meta, DLC or not, but just because it exist doesn't automatically mean it'll turn ** drivers into good ones.

"MTX" is but one component to "pay-to-win". Having to pay extra, in this case, between $30 and $40 depending on whether you bundle it or not, to get a substantial advantage one cannot otherwise get, and getting a permanent 2x credits bonus is a substantial advantage, is another definition of pay-to-win.

Adding paid cars post-launch, as PD did in GT5/GT6, can potentially hit that "pay-to-win" line. It also can be a legitimate way for a developer to extend the playability of a game that, like a racing game, has a multi-year lifespan. It's the implementation that's the key, and both Turn 10 and PD have used it more for the latter (unlike, say, Rockstar).

I would pay a reasonable price for post-launch cars. I appreciate that PD has gone away from that by giving them to us for free thus far.

On my end, its very rare. If it does happen, I'll just go play something else for the time being. Not the end of the world.

"Rare" does not equal "never". I have had a couple of instances where I lost connectivity to the GT7 servers, but since I didn't quit before connectivity was restored, it was no issue. The person I was replying to said "never".

Forza has literally always thrown money at you like crazy. Every single game. It has been such a complete opposite of GT in every aspect that it likely shouldn't even be compared to at this point. You've played Forza right? Seeing their history, its not a thing I would worry about one single bit.

Given that we were blindsided by the poor economy in GT7, and the single-race pre-launch example from FM8, I'd start worrying. It is a single race from a pre-production build, credits aren't used for as many things in FM8 as they are in GT7, and we don't know how expensive the cars are going to be, but getting less than 10,000 Cr. from a win after over 10 minutes of racing a full field is something I haven't seen even in the extremely-low-paying single-player custom races in GT7, much less any of the curated races.

 

[MSiAventador]

What is so new in Forza Motorsport 2023 that is not in Project CARS 2?
1. RayTracing?
2. Squeaky rubber?
3. ... and nothing more.

I see all the rakes too:
1. Insufficient rotation due to a specific FFB, rubber and the alleged weight of the machine in 3 tons.
2. Pumping with spare parts as if BoP or AI cannot do it. Why is it in Autosport, it's about racers,
this is not Motorsport Manager.
3. Another "Autolokh" called Challenge the Grid, why do you need to choose a place at the finish in advance? This is not a game on Android under 2 fingers...
4. Where is the single story? Already, even in F1 2023, there was no plot.
5. Where are the motorsport categories relevant? Real!?

 

[ImaRobot]

"MTX" is but one component to "pay-to-win". Having to pay extra, in this case, between $30 and $40 depending on whether you bundle it or not, to get a substantial advantage one cannot otherwise get, and getting a permanent 2x credits bonus is a substantial advantage, is another definition of pay-to-win.

Adding paid cars post-launch, as PD did in GT5/GT6, can potentially hit that "pay-to-win" line. It also can be a legitimate way for a developer to extend the playability of a game that, like a racing game, has a multi-year lifespan. It's the implementation that's the key, and both Turn 10 and PD have used it more for the latter (unlike, say, Rockstar).

I would pay a reasonable price for post-launch cars. I appreciate that PD has gone away from that by giving them to us for free thus far.

Yes, but what you described isn't MTX, nor is it pay to win. Not even remotely. Getting additional credits doesn't help you win. Getting additional cars doesnt help you win either. You're intentionally or unintentionally mixing up definitions here.

"Rare" does not equal "never". I have had a couple of instances where I lost connectivity to the GT7 servers, but since I didn't quit before connectivity was restored, it was no issue. The person I was replying to said "never".

And I never said it does. I'm also specifically talking about my experience there, so you can't really decide how you want that to be defined. The person you responded to was also talking about their experience - something you also can't try to redefine.

Given that we were blindsided by the poor economy in GT7, and the single-race pre-launch example from FM8, I'd start worrying. It is a single race from a pre-production build, credits aren't used for as many things in FM8 as they are in GT7, and we don't know how expensive the cars are going to be, but getting less than 10,000 Cr. from a win after over 10 minutes of racing a full field is something I haven't seen even in the extremely-low-paying single-player custom races in GT7, much less any of the curated races.

Why? You're being told that it's always been quiet the opposite of what you're saying, for Forza games from people that have had experience. The thing is with Forza, it's always had many faucets to receive credits, many as simple as just leveling up. It throws credits at you at most chances it gets. I don't see that changing much, considering it basically never has thus far. Plus, now that we have Credits as well as Car Points, thats alleviating having to spend those credits on car parts and vice versa. A system I'm not entirely fond of right now, but the economy being split like that should only help out in regards to what you're worrying about.

GT has always been the one with really bad economy. Forza has always been so far from that that I can't really say it should even be compared. Who knows though, I'm only going off history, so if things change we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Eggstor]

Yes, but what you described isn't MTX, nor is it pay to win. Not even remotely. Getting additional credits doesn't help you win. Getting additional cars doesnt help you win either. You're intentionally or unintentionally mixing up definitions here.

I'll explain it one more time, just in case you aren't that dense. If one pays the extra money to Microsoft for the VIP membership and the 2x credits bonus, one has to race half as much to get the same number of credits. That is one of the working definitions of pay-to-win.

With that, I'll take my leave from this thread.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'll explain it one more time, just in case you aren't that dense. If one pays the extra money to Microsoft for the VIP membership and the 2x credits bonus, one has to race half as much to get the same number of credits. That is one of the working definitions of pay-to-win.

With that, I'll take my leave from this thread.

None of that makes it pay to win. Should watch insinuating people are dense when all the while you can't make that simple distinction. Bye.

 

[McLaren]

I'll explain it one more time, just in case you aren't that dense. If one pays the extra money to Microsoft for the VIP membership and the 2x credits bonus, one has to race half as much to get the same number of credits. That is one of the working definitions of pay-to-win.

With that, I'll take my leave from this thread.

Lol, no.

Just because I earn twice the money you do, doesn't mean I can beat you.

Pay-to-win in this game would be getting exclusive access to a car that has a tremendous advantage over everyone else, even in spite of skill differences.

 

[Ramosis]

I was reviewing the Career gameplay demo and noticed a smart move by Turn10: the full starting grid has 2 empty slots between each car. I think this is to offload processing and AI so the game can have standing starts without compromising fps or performance.

 

[Tornado]

Completely undoubtedly decimating most of the appeal the game will ever have to your typical casual player base and making their game far more grindy than any GT game ever was but (presumably) without even giving players the option to get around it sure was... a choice. One that, man, bless them, they truly seem to think was an improvement. And here I thought when I first heard it that it was a return of the Affinity system from Forza 4 which accomplished the same thing but didn't gatekeep literally every single car until you get to a certain level.

I'm certainly not interested in buying "Enthusia but you need to grind even more and you still have to buy cars." The career as described is not even remotely compatible with how I play racing games of this type, so I'll just stick to Horizon 4 I guess and see if they back off from it like they did Forza 7's initial design.

I would pay a reasonable price for post-launch cars. I appreciate that PD has gone away from that by giving them to us for free thus far.

I like how you try to lecture people on what pay to win means and imply that they are dumb for not understanding you and then say something as clueless as this. Gran Turismo had a "directly exchange money for goods" model. They got away from it because it was undoubtedly far, far more profitable to turn the franchise into one of the earliest implementations in the industry of games as a service; including the definition of "pay to win" where you literally pay money for in-game currency.



GT's post-launch support isn't free. It's paid for by the structuring the entire franchise to take advantage of whales; up to and including actually lying about doing so before their games release until after all the review scores are already on the books.

 

[KiroKai]

Sure, we can make a bunch of hypotheticals around what could/couldn't happen, but until it does, I'm not too bothered by it. I just, for one, haven't kept playing games for so long that I manage to outlast their closing of the servers. Makes sense for a game that was no longer supported that came out nearly 10 years ago. If there's no one there to support the game when issues arise, then yeah, issues wont get fixed. Again, for a game like this, I'd imagine that they can just pull what GT did in this scenario with the always online functionality. Can I see the potential issue? Sure, but again, these issues don't seem to be so wide spread. Especially for me, so I can live with it.

Although, to point out. It sounds like you're having issues with games in general just losing support and not working anymore. Doesn't look like its tied much to online only, and more so, the amount of time a game is supported and how long you intend to play it, considering you're having similar issues with games that don't require this connectivity..

Didn't mean to get lost in hypotheticals, I'd just be extremely disheartened to see this online-only crap in the next Horizon, so it's worth raising the issue now. I mean, there's just no reason to be indifferent about this? There are lots of potential problems (just look at GT7 or Watch Dogs: L) and no benefit. I don't really get the stance of 'it hasn't annoyed me yet, so why care' (paraphrasing).

In general, I suppose my approach to games is a bit different; sometimes there's just an experience I want to drive again like taking the Carrera GT down the French Riviera in FH2, so I'll just play it. However, it's not about playing the same game for 10 years until the servers fall apart, more that they can't be relied on. Did you forget the buggy messes that FM7 and FH5 servers were at launch? Each took months to fix.

Finally, I do wonder what you mean by GT dealing with its always online functionality? I guess Polyphony added some of the online dealerships to GT5 in offline mode? In GT6 the long-awaited track creator was killed with the server shut-off, and GT Sport still requires permanent online connection. It seems Nenkai has a GTS offline patch for hacked PS4s (surprise, the game saves offline just fine!) but I don't suppose you mean that.

I never said reliability isn't a problem "these days." Though I'd hardly say save corruption is a thing only isolated to the fact that a game is online only.

Well almost

In this day and age, I don't think I've encountered much issues with it.

It's just annoying when it does happen and you can't play the new exciting offline races in The Crew 2 because the maintenance guy had an oopsie. Or, in case of Watch Dogs L, the whole game frequently stops saving progress precisely due to the server connection.

 

[kartman21]

So far I'm not that impress by the reveal (graphics are ok, but too close from FM7), I'm also a bit concern by the car rpg leveling system, and I wish physics and FFB have been worked

Good news with game pass, there will be a cheap way to try it, instead of paying full price

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Well this comment section has certainly been a ride.

I'm looking forward to it, it looks like a fun game.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Well this comment section has certainly been a ride.

I'm looking forward to it, it looks like a fun game.

I really like progression is going to be a thing in Forza again, something that was missing in FM7. Bounding with my cars is going to be great!

Ask for the comment section, not surprising in the slightest. It's just because it's Forza, so it's common to happen.

 

[willbsn13]

Such a large change to progression across the board is going to have some side effects, many of which are being pointed out already potentially.

I'm curious to see if the negative reaction is largely in smaller communities like here and the Forza forums and if the reaction is much better to it on YT, FB/Twitter.