- 660
Those are the kind of ignorant comments that are guna get you flamed.
Gosh.
Gosh.
Forza
- Thread starter GT Obsession
- 2,956 comments
- 166,374 views
Safe SpeedYeah well, PD has a selection of cars not seen in any game also.....POS cars that is. I mean in the Honda section, there is even a freakin van in there. I can understand some of the cars in GT4 but some are just flat out ridiculous and are a waste of space to more important cars. Why does PD have to do that to us?
Well, you have to understand exactly what GT is. It really has never been a true "Racing" game. It's a driving simulator. IMO, the only reason you can "race" is because it creates mainstream appeal. But seriously, the intent is not to race all of the cars, it is to drive them. That is what makes GT4 so great. You can drive so many different cars, and it's not limited to ONLY supercars, etc. It's great to be able to drive cars from the past and compare how a certain line of cars has improved over the years, at least to me it is. IMO, you can't appreaciate a car of now, if you don't understand exactly how far the line has come. Also, it's fun to race these cars in multiplayer at times. Hell, I've had countless races with friends with the Mini Vans and Sport Utility Trucks. It's just fun to have that variety and be goofy about it. I don't see it as a negative...but you should really come to terms with the true vibe of GT, which isn't a "racing game" that is strictly about competition.
That is where GT series and Forza are different. GT is there so you can experience the car and drive it. Forza is more competion driven. For me, I enjoy both, however I like to take a break from competition and just take a car out on a track for a dozen or so laps, just drive it for fun. To me, that's what GT is, enjoying the cars, not the races.
- 2,611
- DRIFTGOD187
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I agree that enjoying driving the cars is a big part of GT, but the fact remains that it's a racing game and KY's initial vision for the GT series was to include every car and every form of motorsport. Motorspot = racing and the lack of entertaining races is not a + in my book and KY should see how frustrating it is for people to have such a good and useable game engine but not be able have any fun besides time trials and collecting cars because once you start a race thats all it is, a time trial you vs the clock that AI isn't good enough.
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
Yup EB-Games has http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/244535.asp Oh well that will just give us more time with GT4DRIFT GOD
]5/3/05[/URL] Oh well that will just give us more time with GT4 tha_con
Total copout, the only part of GT where you just drive is only found in SOME of the license tests and time trial. The beef of GT4 is about racing includeing B-spec. Now if you dont enjoy the actual racing as you would in other games then its a huge fault in GT. Thats like trying to say Gran Theft Auto is really just about jacking cars and not shooting people where if you want to shoot things you should play SOCOM.
GT is all about winning races to earn money to upgrade and buy/win new cars. Explain why you think Forza is more "competition" based?
Edit: Live4speed was faster.
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
Gek54
Gran Turismo - Tursimo is a word that describes a car that carries people.
Forza Motorsport - Forza means "to be forceful" which translate to "forceful motorsport" which SUGGESTS competitive racing.
GT - The DRIVE of your life. The Real DRIVING Simulator.
Point blank. The focus of the GT series is the cars and driving them, but that WILL NOT SELL GAMES. Thus, they include races to give the game PURPOSE. But the fact still, and always will, remain that is it about DRIVING AND EXPERIENCING the different cars, NOT THE RACES. Races are included to give the game meat and content. Something to do. KY has said many times he wants a game where people can experience all cars and the history of them, and driving them. He rarely RARELY speaks about "racing".
Forza is PURELY competition driven. From the Online aspect, to the races. The goal of the game is to give you a skill level depending on your RACING results.
GT has what is has in order to make it a game. If you believe that the focus of this game is to RACE you are wrong. If that was the case, then we WOULDN'T see 700 cars, we'd see significantly less, more races, and better AI in order to make the game challenging.
Argue all you want, this is exactly how I see it as it's been explained in interviews many times over for the following years. KY always states his goals in the GT series, and he always refers to the DRIVING EXPERIENCE rather than the RACING ASPECT of the game.
Hope that's "good enough" for you...I don't see why you hold such a grudge...lol...
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Your reading an awful lot into the GT name, what about GT racing, isn't that the focus of GT, Gran Turismo racing is where it all started with the GT cars in GT1, then GT2 expanded the racing models with different types of racing car.
KY always says how proud he is of the driving experience, but when he says the focus isn't on racing (cos he knows the races are ****) it's a cop out, it's simply an excuse to get away with not spending more time including other things such as damage and better AI. Before all that he said his goal was to get every form of motorsport and every car in GT eventually.
People hold a grudge because no matter how much you, KY or anyone else says it's not about racing, GT is a racing game. And for a racing game to not be about racing is odd. I know GT has other aspects but if your to believe everything KY says you'd be wondering exactly WHAT is the focus on GT, in GT2 it was collecting the cars, in GT1 it was tuning your car into a race car (at the time that was by far the best in a console game), GT3 was just fancy graphics and now GT4 is all about the driving. Personally I'd like to ask KY when exactly is his racing game going to be about the racing, because when it is it will be all the better for it.
If you don't see my point at least, we'll just have to agree to dissagree because I'm not arguing over a matter such as this.
So far weve been told GT5 will have damage which is a step in the right direction IMO, hopefully the game will have online and decent AI too.
KY always says how proud he is of the driving experience, but when he says the focus isn't on racing (cos he knows the races are ****) it's a cop out, it's simply an excuse to get away with not spending more time including other things such as damage and better AI. Before all that he said his goal was to get every form of motorsport and every car in GT eventually.
People hold a grudge because no matter how much you, KY or anyone else says it's not about racing, GT is a racing game. And for a racing game to not be about racing is odd. I know GT has other aspects but if your to believe everything KY says you'd be wondering exactly WHAT is the focus on GT, in GT2 it was collecting the cars, in GT1 it was tuning your car into a race car (at the time that was by far the best in a console game), GT3 was just fancy graphics and now GT4 is all about the driving. Personally I'd like to ask KY when exactly is his racing game going to be about the racing, because when it is it will be all the better for it.
If you don't see my point at least, we'll just have to agree to dissagree because I'm not arguing over a matter such as this.
So far weve been told GT5 will have damage which is a step in the right direction IMO, hopefully the game will have online and decent AI too.
okay, we all know that KY makes the series for himself. He doesn't do it for us. He wants a good driving experience. He rarely mentions racing. If he makes a series, for himself, in his vision, how can he cop out to himself?
Do you see where I'm getting?
It is a RACING GAME, but the FOCUS of the game is driving, clearly. It's extremely easy to see that racing is not the focus of this game.
That is all I'm trying to get across, nothing deep, I just went in depth before.
And I have an interesting video from like june of last year where KY talks about damage, online, and even cars going off the grand canyon, it's pretty good stuff, I'd never seen it before. I'll post later.
EDIT: Video Link
http://games.kikizo.com/features/kazyamauchi_vidint.asp
It's pretty interesting. I'd never seen it, lol.
Do you see where I'm getting?
It is a RACING GAME, but the FOCUS of the game is driving, clearly. It's extremely easy to see that racing is not the focus of this game.
That is all I'm trying to get across, nothing deep, I just went in depth before.
And I have an interesting video from like june of last year where KY talks about damage, online, and even cars going off the grand canyon, it's pretty good stuff, I'd never seen it before. I'll post later.
EDIT: Video Link
http://games.kikizo.com/features/kazyamauchi_vidint.asp
It's pretty interesting. I'd never seen it, lol.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
He can't make the series for himself, if Sony let him make the game just how he'd like it do you think Sony woul agree to it all. It has to be marketable and provide mass apeal, unfortunately as good as GT4 is it's losing it's status as the benchmark fast IMO.
I'm not disputing that KY says the focus is on the driving, but it SHOULD be on the racing and I think that it's a way of being lazy not including better AI and other features, if a handful of people can do it like in Live for speed then PD can do it.
I've seen that vid about the cars going off the grand canyon, pitty it didn't make it in.
I'm not disputing that KY says the focus is on the driving, but it SHOULD be on the racing and I think that it's a way of being lazy not including better AI and other features, if a handful of people can do it like in Live for speed then PD can do it.
I've seen that vid about the cars going off the grand canyon, pitty it didn't make it in.
- 2,461
gran turismo isn't a driving game. Even if it was, that's a stupid niche to fill.
calling GT a "driving game" is like making a fighting game that focuses solely on providing great graphics and a ton of selectable characters, but no competition. Even if it had awesome characters, graphics, animation, and a huge amount of moves and combos, it would be pointless. Even for people really into that sort of thing, it would get old fast. kind of like how GT3 got old extremely fast for me (2p battles are what kept it in my ps2 for over 2 years, and even then that only happens about twice a month)
calling GT a "driving game" is like making a fighting game that focuses solely on providing great graphics and a ton of selectable characters, but no competition. Even if it had awesome characters, graphics, animation, and a huge amount of moves and combos, it would be pointless. Even for people really into that sort of thing, it would get old fast. kind of like how GT3 got old extremely fast for me (2p battles are what kept it in my ps2 for over 2 years, and even then that only happens about twice a month)
- 587
kinigitt
GT3 kept me satisfied for well over 2 years, and I didn't even use 2p. So, I guess it depends on what you are looking for - you are obviously not looking for another GT game, so why are you on these forums? I am looking foreward to another GT, and I might even start participating in the OLR league - which has its advantages over online racing. 1) you can find good competition all the time 2) nobody is ramming you off the road/going backwards 3) no highspeed internet required 4) no lagging out
Obviously there are great things about racing online as well, and the AI could definetly use improvement, but I have never experienced "good" AI on a console game anyway.
To each his own, but I don't understand why people come on a Gran Turismo board and start bashing the game that this board was created for.
Hello GT-ers. This is the Forza thread, right? Can we get back to Forza?
Forza Motorsport - Forza means "to be forceful" which translate to "forceful motorsport" which SUGGESTS competitive racing.
The name Forza (pronounced fort'-za) was not used for its literal meaning. Rather it is for the spirit. F-1 Ferrari fans (THE largest, most fanatic motorsport fan bar none,) chant 'Forza Ferrari!' as THE cheer to rally their team.
It is this love of all things motorsport that MSG's is reaching for. The enthusiast, period. Competitive, or not. Mechanic or not. Knowlagable or not. You just gotta LOVE.
If by any stretch of the imagination you believe GT has a MINI-VAN purely for a craving of the 'driving experience', I suggest you go get some fresh air.
peace and out -
~TRE
Forza Motorsport - Forza means "to be forceful" which translate to "forceful motorsport" which SUGGESTS competitive racing.
The name Forza (pronounced fort'-za) was not used for its literal meaning. Rather it is for the spirit. F-1 Ferrari fans (THE largest, most fanatic motorsport fan bar none,) chant 'Forza Ferrari!' as THE cheer to rally their team.
It is this love of all things motorsport that MSG's is reaching for. The enthusiast, period. Competitive, or not. Mechanic or not. Knowlagable or not. You just gotta LOVE.
If by any stretch of the imagination you believe GT has a MINI-VAN purely for a craving of the 'driving experience', I suggest you go get some fresh air.
peace and out -
~TRE
- 2,461
Minnesota01R6
Oh but I am looking for another GT game. You see, Gran Turismo is so damn good in many respects that it warrants a purchase despite the frustratingly bad things that come with the package. I can still ***** and moan about those bad things, just like I can praise the good things. It's a forum, you're going to have to get used to it. Objective critisism is often helpful, and not just for the person getting it off their chest.
to your points:
1) I doubt you can just fire up your ps2 and have 5 other people to compete against magically pop into your living room. It's a headache to get people together for LAN matches (though they are usually better than online races.) Online racing happens whenever you want it to.
2) this happens very rarely to me, I don't know what it is with people complaining about griefers as if they own the internet. About 85% of my time spent online in MotoGP2, Toca 2 and PGR2 is pleasant and friendly. Halo 2 is full of jerks though...
3) no high speed internet required, but it requires patience, organisation, and a little bit of obsession.
4) if my connection is crappy, I sit it out and play other games, or go outside and do something else. People with decent connections don't have problems with this on a large scale anyway.
- 587
kinigitt
1) I was talking about OLR here at GTP - no need to get people over to my house, you post your time on here (from what I've read, network play is all choppy on GT4 if you get more than 3 people playing anyway)
2) most of my online experience is from SOCOM II - I guess the same people play Halo 2
3) we're here aren't we?
4) I'll give you that
And finally #5 - I agree with you that the AI in GT sucks donkey b@!!s, but I don't think TOCA had great AI, or any other console racer for that matter. doing the OLR here at gtp just seems like such a great compromise because there's no damage, so online racing wouldn't be that real anyway - you could bumper-car corner just like in the 1p game. I'll wait and see how forza impliments everything before I decide if I like the game or not. I'm not going to base it off a demo - I'll wait till the final product comes out. After all, if you aren't constantly looking for something better, racing sims might not have evolved beyond super sprint.
EDIT: spinal tap rules
McLaren
Premium
- 45,637
- Texas
T_R_EHello GT-ers. This is the Forza thread, right? Can we get back to Forza?
Forza Motorsport - Forza means "to be forceful" which translate to "forceful motorsport" which SUGGESTS competitive racing.
The name Forza (pronounced fort'-za) was not used for its literal meaning. Rather it is for the spirit. F-1 Ferrari fans (THE largest, most fanatic motorsport fan bar none,) chant 'Forza Ferrari!' as THE cheer to rally their team.
It is this love of all things motorsport that MSG's is reaching for. The enthusiast, period. Competitive, or not. Mechanic or not. Knowlagable or not. You just gotta LOVE.
If by any stretch of the imagination you believe GT has a MINI-VAN purely for a craving of the 'driving experience', I suggest you go get some fresh air.
peace and out -
~TRE
For some reason...that was nicely put.
- 1,267
T_R_E
Good post. This is very true. FORZA FERRARI!
- 2,461
Minnesota01R61) I was talking about OLR here at GTP - no need to get people over to my house, you post your time on here (from what I've read, network play is all choppy on GT4 if you get more than 3 people playing anyway)
2) most of my online experience is from SOCOM II - I guess the same people play Halo 2
3) we're here aren't we?
4) I'll give you that
And finally #5 - I agree with you that the AI in GT sucks donkey b@!!s, but I don't think TOCA had great AI, or any other console racer for that matter. doing the OLR here at gtp just seems like such a great compromise because there's no damage, so online racing wouldn't be that real anyway - you could bumper-car corner just like in the 1p game. I'll wait and see how forza impliments everything before I decide if I like the game or not. I'm not going to base it off a demo - I'll wait till the final product comes out. After all, if you aren't constantly looking for something better, racing sims might not have evolved beyond super sprint.
EDIT: spinal tap rules
smart man.
God...I cannot believe how some people just ignore things one minute, then use them the next, then become ignorant to them the next.
Everone *****es about Kazanuri's statement about how he makes the GT series for himself, in his image of a good driving game, etc etc.
Then I say HE himself say's he wanted a great DRIVING EXPERIENCE, etc etc...and I get asked "He couldn't make the game for himself, sony wouldn't let him now would they?"...
If it is unclear to you, exactly what his focus in GT is, I suggest some of you go listen to him speak, rather than just play the boring weak AI and assume it's just a crappy racing game....
It is a driving simulator, where the main focus of the game itself is to enjoy driving all of the cars on different courses, and learning about the history of automobiles.
Plain and simple.
The next person to try to come up with some "genius" analogy better have something half decent, so far they have been half assed.
And forza isn't less of a driving game, I never said that. I said it's more of a racing game, and is extremely more competitive. It's driven more by competition than the GT series is.
For me, playing the two daily for no less than an hour a piece, it's extremely easy to tell the difference.
Everone *****es about Kazanuri's statement about how he makes the GT series for himself, in his image of a good driving game, etc etc.
Then I say HE himself say's he wanted a great DRIVING EXPERIENCE, etc etc...and I get asked "He couldn't make the game for himself, sony wouldn't let him now would they?"...
If it is unclear to you, exactly what his focus in GT is, I suggest some of you go listen to him speak, rather than just play the boring weak AI and assume it's just a crappy racing game....
It is a driving simulator, where the main focus of the game itself is to enjoy driving all of the cars on different courses, and learning about the history of automobiles.
Plain and simple.
The next person to try to come up with some "genius" analogy better have something half decent, so far they have been half assed.
And forza isn't less of a driving game, I never said that. I said it's more of a racing game, and is extremely more competitive. It's driven more by competition than the GT series is.
For me, playing the two daily for no less than an hour a piece, it's extremely easy to tell the difference.
- 293
I think what he meant like he stated in his post is really the fact that the A.I. level in both games are different, and you cant say BS because it is true that tha AI in the GT series has always been weak, i dont know much about forzas but im guessing hes saying its more competitive.
- 2,461
tha_con
You want half-assed?
how about a platforming game without jumping or combat. oooh! aaaah! the developers call it an "exploration" game. boring.
an RPG without any story. the object of the game is to level up your little dude to infinity while fighting random little enemies. boring.
a "driving game", a neutered racing game that only delivers the driving experience and none of the racing action. seems like half a game to me. boring, but worth buying because cars an obsession to a lot of people. does it make it the best? worthy of highest acclaim? I dunno, doesn't seem nearly as ambitious as a game that delivers decent competition. Unless you're talking about a rally game, which is intense enough of an experience by it's lonesome.
Jesus...flipping....christ.
I am not saying that racing is not a HUGE part of GT. I have already said it is. HOWEVER, this is NOT the FOCUS of the game. It's intent, is to allow you to drive as many cars in different environments and locations as possible. KY has said this, many members of his staff have said this. I just don't see why you would acknowledge something like this one minute, then ignore it the next.
Forza is more competition driven, because the game is geared towards you getting a better "rank" so to speak, and the focus on the development of the AI etc is much more intense.
GT has very little focus on the AI or setting yourself apart from the crowd via skill level and rank.
That is how they are different. Forza aims for you to set yourself apart from everyone else and the standard, while GT aims for you to get every car, and focuses it's intent that you drive a WIDE variety of cars through all of the different races.
I can go on and on, the point is, while they are both racing games, the focus of GT does not lie soley on the racing experience, rather it is more geared towards the driving experience of various different cars.
christ...do some of you not understand what I type? It's simple, just READ it and UNDERSTAND IT. I'm not trying to stand up for anyone, or bash any game, nothing like that at all. It's simple fact. Period. Not a "cop out" nothing. If you can't understand this I would suggest not replying because you are only wasting your time.
I am not saying that racing is not a HUGE part of GT. I have already said it is. HOWEVER, this is NOT the FOCUS of the game. It's intent, is to allow you to drive as many cars in different environments and locations as possible. KY has said this, many members of his staff have said this. I just don't see why you would acknowledge something like this one minute, then ignore it the next.
Forza is more competition driven, because the game is geared towards you getting a better "rank" so to speak, and the focus on the development of the AI etc is much more intense.
GT has very little focus on the AI or setting yourself apart from the crowd via skill level and rank.
That is how they are different. Forza aims for you to set yourself apart from everyone else and the standard, while GT aims for you to get every car, and focuses it's intent that you drive a WIDE variety of cars through all of the different races.
I can go on and on, the point is, while they are both racing games, the focus of GT does not lie soley on the racing experience, rather it is more geared towards the driving experience of various different cars.
christ...do some of you not understand what I type? It's simple, just READ it and UNDERSTAND IT. I'm not trying to stand up for anyone, or bash any game, nothing like that at all. It's simple fact. Period. Not a "cop out" nothing. If you can't understand this I would suggest not replying because you are only wasting your time.
tha_con
Fair enough, I hope we can all move on. All the ranting leads to too much reading!!!
In regards to Forza's 'getting better rankings,' how is that working out. How is the pacing and flow of the game so far. How much time have you put in and what rank has that given (number of cars opened, number of credits earned.) Has the racing got repetitive yet (like Toca did quickly.) Can you choose to jump around to the different types of racing as you wish. Ha, 8 questions in one little parargraph!
Thanks.
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
Just saw the damage pics for Forza, you can blow out the windows and what not. Intersting...
Question, can you pull sand and gravel back onto the track after you go off track? That would make sense to me since there are tire marks that effect performance in later laps.
Question, can you pull sand and gravel back onto the track after you go off track? That would make sense to me since there are tire marks that effect performance in later laps.
tha_con
Forza has 200+ types of leagues. I dont know exactly how many GT4 has but I would bet you would be hard pressed to say Forza has you drive a less diverse set of cars through out the game.
If GT is main focus is driving different cars and not racing then why has there been so much effort put into having performance parts?
If you tried to tell me the main focus to GT4
rologue was just driving then I would agree but GT1,2,3,4 and all the concepts have been focused on racing as it is how you progress through the game. Quit trying to make excuses for GT's lackadaisical racing experience.Edit: Oh and if GT4's intent was for you to get every car then wouldnt you think they would allow your garage to hold every car?
