Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.
- Thread starter blademask
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Well, let's look at some sim games, see if they have an autobrake or rewind function.
- GTR: neither
- LFS: neither
- Enthousia: neither
Shall I go on? Making the game accessible to a wider audience does cripple the game in my opinion. And it certainly isn't right to promote forza 3 as a sim racer. Forza is somewhere between arcade and sim.
That said, the GT series aren't full sim games either. But with the new physics of GT5
, it's defenately getting more and more becoming one.
- 301
- N24_VANTAGE
- X what?
Well, let's look at some sim games, see if they have an autobrake or rewind function.
- GTR: neither
- LFS: neither
- Enthousia: neither
Shall I go on? Making the game accessible to a wider audience does cripple the game in my opinion. And it certainly isn't right to promote forza 3 as a sim racer. Forza is somewhere between arcade and sim.
That said, the GT series aren't full sim games either. But with the new physics of GT5
I've got to disagree with you. I dont think that having the aids to help new users (wider audience) cripples the game in any way. I also feel Forza 3 is as good a sim racer as GT5, obviously I haven't played either yet. I feel GT5 has better physics, better graphics... but, I feel Forza 3 is going to be very close.
- 4,004
- Croatia
You should stop thinking that way. First, nobody force you to use those functions. Second, they're aimed at casual players and you don't have to use them if you do not want. Third, they're useless in online. Fourth, what is wrong with the functions that are here to learn people how to play?
I really do not understand what is the anchor point for such oppinions.
Those functions does not compromise "Professional/Hard Core/Purists" physics or driving at all. So, what is the big deal with bashing them?
Every function that can help some people to enjoy the game is more than welcomed.
For those people individually, yes. But not when they're put together in an online race for example. But if those different types of players are kept seperated, there's no problem.
I didn't mean to bash on the entire game at all. As long if there's a section of the game (offline and online) where I can drive in a sim way, I'm satisfied. I have to admit that I don't know how these things will be introduced in Forza 3 though.
And just for the record: I get so fed up by how this game is announced. Taken from E3:
Forza 3 brings you what no other racing game can:
- The best graphics and physics (subjective, not true)
- The largest choice of the hottest cars (subjective, not true)
- The most thrilling action and approachable gameplay (subjective, debatable)
- The biggest creative online community (the game isn't even released yet)
They're just so damn full of themselves. Ok, it's PR, it's what game publishers do. But the way they're presenting this game, it just goes too far.
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Well I think autobrake can be mandatory in single player (if selected ofcourse), why else would they implement it? Ofcourse rewind doesn't work in online races, i'm not stupid amar. And it has been confirmed that a 5 second rewind can be applied in any single player race.Soory for the following Humpus, but if you have thought for a second that rewind or autobrake are going to be featured in online play - or being mandatory in single-player - than you've just didn't think at all
My point was that (to me) those features are out of the question in a racing game that promotos itself as a sim racer. It's just an excuse for people that aren't very good at racing games to be able to play them too. Or in other words: it's just a way to sell the game to people that wouldn't be able to fully enjoy the game under normal surcumstances.
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- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
Well i agree to some point.
I dont think its a big issue but features like that are tempting and even if you say "i dont use it because its unrealistic and stupid" you will still use it in the game at some point.
Sometimes its better to cut some assists and helpers imo.
I still dont get that "one button" driving though, is this like with a Carrera track, where you dont need to steer?
I dont think its a big issue but features like that are tempting and even if you say "i dont use it because its unrealistic and stupid" you will still use it in the game at some point.
Sometimes its better to cut some assists and helpers imo.
I still dont get that "one button" driving though, is this like with a Carrera track, where you dont need to steer?
- 5,398
- Buenos Aires
I find these two funny. How do we know the physics aren't the best? I will stay completely neutral for both (Forza and GT). Why is "the most thrilling action and approachable gameplay" debatable, but the physics aren't? The largest choice of the hottest cars may be a true claim. Most people want Lamborghini and Porsche with such a passion. They see them as the hottest cars. They said they will be disappointed if GT5 does not include them. Personally, I don't find 40 Nissan Skylines GT-R R34 "hot" cars. They do have a point when they claim that.
For those people individually, yes. But not when they're put together in an online race for example. But if those different types of players are kept seperated, there's no problem.
I didn't mean to bash on the entire game at all. As long if there's a section of the game (offline and online) where I can drive in a sim way, I'm satisfied. I have to admit that I don't know how these things will be introduced in Forza 3 though.
And just for the record: I get so fed up by how this game is announced. Taken from E3:
Forza 3 brings you what no other racing game can:
- The best graphics and physics (subjective, not true)
- The largest choice of the hottest cars (subjective, not true)
- The most thrilling action and approachable gameplay (subjective, debatable)
- The biggest creative online community (the game isn't even released yet)
There's just so damn full of themselves. Ok, it's PR, it's what game publishers do. But the way they're presenting this game, it just goes too far.
The physics might be better in Forza3 we have not played the game so we do not no yet.
GT5 might not have these cars, Ferrari, Porsche, or Lamborghini and Forza3 has them.
Also Forza2 has a massive online community.
Even though Forza2 is an old game now lots of people still play online every day.
There is no reason not to think that the same thing will not happen with Forza3.
In fact more people could end up playing it online.
- 342
- Haifa
- Tomeru
- Tomeru
For the record, humpus did not mention GT5 in his post and he didn't compare his points to GT5. He was talking in a general way.
Well as you can see, it's getting a bit of ridiculous throwing arguments around. There's no real problem if users of a forum are doing this, that's normal. But when game publishers are heating up their fanbase with arguments that aren't based on facts, it just gets really absurd.
- 818
And just for the record: I get so fed up by how this game is announced. Taken from E3:
Forza 3 brings you what no other racing game can:
- The best graphics and physics (subjective, not true)
- The largest choice of the hottest cars (subjective, not true)
- The most thrilling action and approachable gameplay (subjective, debatable)
- The biggest creative online community (the game isn't even released yet)
There's just so damn full of themselves. Ok, it's PR, it's what game publishers do. But the way they're presenting this game, it just goes too far.
All those things are debatable and subjective, they are just listing them as what they think are the selling points. Best graphics may not = best car models, it may be best OVERALL graphics, less jaggies, better environments, better flowing and more natural feel... you can't tell until you've played it yourself.
Largest choice of hottest cars, that wont be settled until after the full car lists are released. If a game has a selection of street cars, touring cars and open wheelers, but only 100 cars total, I'd consider that a "larger choice" than a game with 1000 cars that are only street cars and touring cars. Likewise more manufacturers and older cars is better than more overall cars from only a few manufacturers and represents a "larger choice".
Things like rewind and autobrake will hopefully allow for more "appoachable" gameplay that gets more people stuck into sims. You say the big sims like LFS and GTR dont feature these things, but I'd argue they WOULD feature them if they had the resources to do so without compromising the "sim" experience, as GTR is always advertising its more arcadish features trying to attract people who aren't the hardcore sim fans. I'm always trying to get my friends into sim racing, but throwing them straight into GTR is not going to work... that's not how I got into sims either (I started on sega GT 2002 to give me a taste of more realistic racing, then Forza 1, then started trying out PC sims after that).
I know they're just selling points, but as said before they are debatable and not 'real'.
Compared to PD's marketing the difference is even bigger.
And no, I don't approve of PD's marketing. In general, we're given far too little information about GT5. All we have to go on right now is: GT5 will be big, there's a lot more to see. Oh yeah, and even though the game is almost finished, we won't show you anything new. Just to make that clear.
Compared to PD's marketing the difference is even bigger.
And no, I don't approve of PD's marketing. In general, we're given far too little information about GT5. All we have to go on right now is: GT5 will be big, there's a lot more to see. Oh yeah, and even though the game is almost finished, we won't show you anything new. Just to make that clear.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Welcome to the world of video-gaming, this has been going on since 1984. Internet didn't even exist on Cern these days while everyone was predicting flying cars will become reality till 2001.
Although I do not also like what PD is doing, you have to look at that issue much more less west-o-centric. PD is Japanese developer and all employees are also Japanese. Their cultural heritage and overall life-logic massivly differs than western.
Marketing is also different. Everything is different. And since they're so important on the global scale to SCE, PD has the strength to keep their business humble untill they really want to.
If you look at the past, nobody had any idea that Nurburgring will be in Gran Turismo games before BMW Demo arrived - and it was just 2 months before GT4 Japan release.
The very first glympse of exhaust-flames in GT4 was given in some spy-movie less than 4 weeks before game was actualy released in Japan. We didn't have a clue about features, car list, anything untill game was actually released.
Hence, I still remember how I was amazed when I first popped the GT5
rologue PAL disc in my PS3 and witnessed F12007 for the first time. Nobody even knew they got Formula car in the game, not even SCEE staff.And that is good in some wierd way. If nothing else, it keeps people wonder about what hides underneath everything.
And I guess that in these days of full-frontal-nudity and wester-o-centric bestiality-porn we somehow forget how beautiful and subtile true old-school erotica can be.
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- 5,681
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
Welcome to the world of video-gaming, this has been going on since 1984. Internet didn't even exist on Cern these days while everyone was predicting flying cars will become reality till 2001.
Although I do not also like what PD is doing, you have to look at that issue much more less west-o-centric. PD is Japanese developer and all employees are also Japanese. Their cultural heritage and overall life-logic massivly differs than western.
Marketing is also different. Everything is different. And since they're so important on the global scale to SCE, PD has the strength to keep their business humble untill they really want to.
If you look at the past, nobody had any idea that Nurburgring will be in Gran Turismo games before BMW Demo arrived - and it was just 2 months before GT4 Japan release.
The very first glympse of exhaust-flames in GT4 was given in some spy-movie less than 4 weeks before game was actualy released in Japan. We didn't have a clue about features, car list, anything untill game was actually released.
Hence, I still remember how I was amazed when I first popped the GT5
And that is good in some wierd way. If nothing else, it keeps people wonder about what hides underneath everything.
And I guess that in these days of full-frontal-nudity and wester-o-centric bestiality-porn we somehow forget how beautiful and subtile true old-school erotica can be.
No doubt, I couldnt agree more with you.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
So, just because other games don't have a feature it doesn't mean anything. If the game has the most realistic physics in any game ever but it has a rewind and autobrake funtion, does that make it no longer a sim? I really can't agree with your logic here. At one point PC sims didn't have nearly as many driver assists as some have now, so are these new ones like GTR not sism because they have more assists than sims from the 90's? Again, your argument is flawed on this matter.Well, let's look at some sim games, see if they have an autobrake or rewind function.
- GTR: neither
- LFS: neither
- Enthousia: neither
Shall I go on? Making the game accessible to a wider audience does cripple the game in my opinion. And it certainly isn't right to promote forza 3 as a sim racer. Forza is somewhere between arcade and sim.
That said, the GT series aren't full sim games either. But with the new physics of GT5
So you're entire argument balances on the use of driving aids in online play? Well I hate to tell you but some people drive with traction control and ABS online in thoes sims you mentioned above, oh no. As stated already (including by yourself) the online play cannot feature the rewind funcion, as for the autobrake, I don't really care if it does or doesn't. I don't think for one second that the cars using auto-brake will come close to setting fastest lap times against semi-decent drivers doing thier own braking. That said, I see no reason to think that there won't be a option to enable or disable the assist when creatng a room online.
Ofcourse there will be, you can play the entire game in a "sim way" if you want, that's what makes it a sim.
You and me both.
It's not mandatory if it has to be selected and is optional
. As for rewind,so what if you can use it in any race, imo it beats restarting an entire race to correct one mistake if you don't have as much time to play or if one corner is giving you headaches you can just get to that corner and keep doing i over and over again without re-doing the rest of the lap. The feature has plenty of uses, and being option evein if you don't want to use it ever it's certainly not a bad point of the game.So, what are the assists there for in GTR and LFS? The first time I played LFS I didn't have a wheel, pad or stick for the PC, so you know what, I raced with the keyboard and mouse. I couldn't have done that without assists, so why is it a bad thing that the game catered for me. It's not. To boo the game because it allows more people to enjoy without forcing anyone else to compromise thier games if they don't want to it is frankly stupid.
- 134
- petter_mo
So, just because other games don't have a feature it doesn't mean anything. If the game has the most realistic physics in any game ever but it has a rewind and autobrake funtion, does that make it no longer a sim? I really can't agree with your logic here. At one point PC sims didn't have nearly as many driver assists as some have now, so are these new ones like GTR not sism because they have more assists than sims from the 90's? Again, your argument is flawed on this matter.
So you're entire argument balances on the use of driving aids in online play? Well I hate to tell you but some people drive with traction control and ABS online in thoes sims you mentioned above, oh no. As stated already (including by yourself) the online play cannot feature the rewind funcion, as for the autobrake, I don't really care if it does or doesn't. I don't think for one second that the cars using auto-brake will come close to setting fastest lap times against semi-decent drivers doing thier own braking. That said, I see no reason to think that there won't be a option to enable or disable the assist when creatng a room online.
Ofcourse there will be, you can play the entire game in a "sim way" if you want, that's what makes it a sim.
You and me both.
It's not mandatory if it has to be selected and is optional
So, what are the assists there for in GTR and LFS? The first time I played LFS I didn't have a wheel, pad or stick for the PC, so you know what, I raced with the keyboard and mouse. I couldn't have done that without assists, so why is it a bad thing that the game catered for me. It's not. To boo the game because it allows more people to enjoy without forcing anyone else to compromise thier games if they don't want to it is frankly stupid.
this is so right.. because a game has alot off assists doesent mean it isent a sim...
- 17
I personally prefer GT5P graphics over Forza 3 and definitely the car models of GT5P over F3 but both look pretty.
And don't get me wrong I prefer more cars if I can have them, I just wanna make sure that the important cars and supercars are there and not just everyday cars (though those are important as well).
Dave, I'm not going to quote everything you said because it will just result in an immense discussion.
Let me put it in the Clarkson way: If you were to buy a supercar with a stereo, sat nav, comfortable seats, airco, electric windows and such, would it still be a supercar? No.
But hey, you don't HAVE to use the sat nav, you don't have to listen to the radio, neither do you have to turn on the air conditioning. But just because it has those features, it isn't a supercar anymore.
And if all this failes, I'm still entitled to have my own opinion. For me, introducing too many features that make the game easier to play (or if you'd like to use an euphemism: more enjoyable for casual players) spoils a part of the game. Weither it's online or not, not depending on how it's implemented or anything, it just does. And if you think I'm being stubborn, I just might be.
Let me put it in the Clarkson way: If you were to buy a supercar with a stereo, sat nav, comfortable seats, airco, electric windows and such, would it still be a supercar? No.
But hey, you don't HAVE to use the sat nav, you don't have to listen to the radio, neither do you have to turn on the air conditioning. But just because it has those features, it isn't a supercar anymore.
And if all this failes, I'm still entitled to have my own opinion. For me, introducing too many features that make the game easier to play (or if you'd like to use an euphemism: more enjoyable for casual players) spoils a part of the game. Weither it's online or not, not depending on how it's implemented or anything, it just does. And if you think I'm being stubborn, I just might be.
- 5,398
- Buenos Aires
Yeah, it has to be the most stupid definition of supercar I have ever heard.
Here are some better definitions:
Supercar is a term generally used for high-end sports cars, whose performance is superior to that of its contemporaries.
It has been defined specifically as "a very expensive, fast or powerful car with a centrally located engine".
Stated in more general terms: "it must be very fast, with sporting handling to match", "it should be sleek and eye-catching" and its price should be "one in a rarefied atmosphere of its own", but the correct usage of the term is both subjective and disputed, especially amongst enthusiasts.
Here are some better definitions:
Supercar is a term generally used for high-end sports cars, whose performance is superior to that of its contemporaries.
It has been defined specifically as "a very expensive, fast or powerful car with a centrally located engine".
Stated in more general terms: "it must be very fast, with sporting handling to match", "it should be sleek and eye-catching" and its price should be "one in a rarefied atmosphere of its own", but the correct usage of the term is both subjective and disputed, especially amongst enthusiasts.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
First of all it's a poor analogy, yes it would still be a supercar but the analogy fails because regardless of you using a setreo, satnav and aircon or not in a car the mere presence of these has an impact on the car through both design and weight/performance and thus they has an effect regardless of you using it or not. The presence of an autobrake function in a game can be completely ignored and have zero impact on a player who chooses not to use such a feature.
Yes, yes you are entitled to your opinion. It may be a flawed opinion but you're entitled to it all the same
. We'll have to agree to dissagree on this one I think.
- 203
- shadowslyr
That would just be a totally awesome supercar
I think you may have slightly misquoted him there, but i believe what he was trying to say is that that's the way supercars always have been, they've always been about performance over comfort and that's what made a supercar a supercar... That's what characterised a supercar... But just because a certain supercar may have comfortable seats and a cd player doesn't mean it's automatically not a supercar any more.
It could very well be an evolution.
This is in the same way you couldn't say Gran Turismo isn't a sim if it just happens to have the option of auto-braking or whatever...
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