- 152
- Killumaniti
i just want a release date from sony, i try to say away from spoiler as possible. I would love to just come acros a track creator or something when I get GT5
Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.
- Thread starter blademask
- 2,433 comments
- 237,455 views
- Status
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I'm sorry, but this is not correct. They're blowing stuff out their inflated tailpipes. "Excellent" is one thing, and definitely debatable around here, where some people have trouble giving Gran Turismo any kudos whatsoever - on a GT forum no less. "Best"? Give me an auto-rewind brake.
- 1,230
On the issue of accesibility:
Should Ferrari down market their brand to have mass appeal and sell millions of cars like Honda and Toyota do every year? Unthinkable, right? I feel the same way about sims; there are plenty of console racing games offering entry level racing thrills, and I think GT should keep that prestige as the first racing sim to require the player to obtain basic driving skills before pushing sport cars down the track. It's enough that it allows players to race entry level series with the minimal requirements of the B license. I'd be disappointed if GT included rewind just to sell a few more copies.
But of course, GT doesn't have problems moving copies...
Should Ferrari down market their brand to have mass appeal and sell millions of cars like Honda and Toyota do every year? Unthinkable, right? I feel the same way about sims; there are plenty of console racing games offering entry level racing thrills, and I think GT should keep that prestige as the first racing sim to require the player to obtain basic driving skills before pushing sport cars down the track. It's enough that it allows players to race entry level series with the minimal requirements of the B license. I'd be disappointed if GT included rewind just to sell a few more copies.
But of course, GT doesn't have problems moving copies...
KSaiyu
(Banned)
- 2,822
Well I hope you're right
I just spit out my liver when the guys from Turn 10 start saying:
'Where doing things with this game that no one else touches'
But alright. On the another matter.
As much as it might seem I don't like Forza, in some ways I actually do.
There are a lot of features that are better in the Forza series compared to GT's.
Skidmarks is one of them ofcourse, the sound is a second one, but most importantly the livery editor! Come on PD, you're taking notes of them, why not implement some of these features yourselves? Sometimes I think there isn't much of a healthy competition going on between these two series.
PD just seems to do their own thing, and not really look at Forza or the fact why Forza has such a big fanbase. In short: PD should learn more from other games...
- 4,004
- Croatia
About the car flip:
http://gamersyde.com/stream_forza_motorsport_3_le_mans_gameplay_60fps-12069_en.html
Please comment if you feel so, I'll sustain.
http://gamersyde.com/stream_forza_motorsport_3_le_mans_gameplay_60fps-12069_en.html
Please comment if you feel so, I'll sustain.
- 161
- GTerholli
Personally, in my opinion, I don't think you can even compare the two. The Gran Turismo series is way out of Forza's league. For many reasons at that. One of the major ones has to be the fact that GT-PSP doubles the amount of cars FM3 features. I'm convinced GT5 will include more than a thousand cars. The love for cars and racing Polyphony Digital has is absolutely amazing. It outweighs that of Forza.
Physics - If you want the full experience for racing, want it as realistic as possible, then you can't get any better than GT. Now, I have no idea what Microsoft is aiming for, a simulator, or an arcade. Having heard about this "rewind" feature, I think it's safe to say the second one.
Graphics - We all know who wins this. Take a look at the trailer again, you can see dirt and dust on the rally car. And, it was all real footage of the game. And the people who say it's not have clearly not played GT5
.
Damage - Looking at the recent trailer, the damage looked really impressive. The Subaru's hood seemed to have gotten damaged from the impact of the fall on the ground. And just from that I can expect hitting something straight on will have a much more bigger impact.
Customization - This is where Kazunori Yamauchi's recent comment, "The trailer only shows a small portion of what we're working on." comes in. Who knows? There could be mass customization in this game. I, personally, do, not, want, this. If I wanted it, I'll fire up my Need for Speed: Carbon. I don't have the time, nor want, to be look looking at my car while I'm driving. Gran Turismo isn't America's Top Car. Plus, most of the cars I'll be driving (Ferrari, Audi, BMW) will only look like crap after a customization. What I would like to return though is, the ability to tune performance.
Gameplay - I have never finished any of the GT games to 100%, most I've gotten to is 60% with GT4. This is one of the biggies for GT. The amount of time I can actually spend on the game. I don't think Forza offers nearly as much races as GT. With Rally, (and now NASCAR included), hell no. With all the extra additions like license, test runs, missions, additional races for some manufacturers, is obviously, more gameplay.
Plus, Gran Turismo includes almost all major racing forms. Whether it's NASCAR, WRC, F1 (I'm guessing it'll be included considering there was an F1 in GT5), standard racing, yeah, it's all there. Hell, the other day, when I heard about the "small portion" comment, I began to think motorcycles would be included. (Yeah, sue me.)
If anything GT needs to be improved on, it's the online. I did a race and it wasn't that bad. Though I'm sure any issues and improvements will be dealt with for GT5. How the **** do people know if FM3's online will be "so great"? You don't know, you haven't tried it yet. But being able to rewind during online races? Really? Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe this was indeed said in one of the videos I have watched.
If anything, you should compare Forza Motorsport to Project Gotham Racing, they do look pretty identical.
Physics - If you want the full experience for racing, want it as realistic as possible, then you can't get any better than GT. Now, I have no idea what Microsoft is aiming for, a simulator, or an arcade. Having heard about this "rewind" feature, I think it's safe to say the second one.
Graphics - We all know who wins this. Take a look at the trailer again, you can see dirt and dust on the rally car. And, it was all real footage of the game. And the people who say it's not have clearly not played GT5
.Damage - Looking at the recent trailer, the damage looked really impressive. The Subaru's hood seemed to have gotten damaged from the impact of the fall on the ground. And just from that I can expect hitting something straight on will have a much more bigger impact.
Customization - This is where Kazunori Yamauchi's recent comment, "The trailer only shows a small portion of what we're working on." comes in. Who knows? There could be mass customization in this game. I, personally, do, not, want, this. If I wanted it, I'll fire up my Need for Speed: Carbon. I don't have the time, nor want, to be look looking at my car while I'm driving. Gran Turismo isn't America's Top Car. Plus, most of the cars I'll be driving (Ferrari, Audi, BMW) will only look like crap after a customization. What I would like to return though is, the ability to tune performance.
Gameplay - I have never finished any of the GT games to 100%, most I've gotten to is 60% with GT4. This is one of the biggies for GT. The amount of time I can actually spend on the game. I don't think Forza offers nearly as much races as GT. With Rally, (and now NASCAR included), hell no. With all the extra additions like license, test runs, missions, additional races for some manufacturers, is obviously, more gameplay.
Plus, Gran Turismo includes almost all major racing forms. Whether it's NASCAR, WRC, F1 (I'm guessing it'll be included considering there was an F1 in GT5
), standard racing, yeah, it's all there. Hell, the other day, when I heard about the "small portion" comment, I began to think motorcycles would be included. (Yeah, sue me.)If anything GT needs to be improved on, it's the online. I did a race and it wasn't that bad. Though I'm sure any issues and improvements will be dealt with for GT5. How the **** do people know if FM3's online will be "so great"? You don't know, you haven't tried it yet. But being able to rewind during online races? Really? Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe this was indeed said in one of the videos I have watched.
If anything, you should compare Forza Motorsport to Project Gotham Racing, they do look pretty identical.
Priceless again... Quote of the day for me 
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
I think I said this in another thread but the rollover physics look bouncy. It seems like the cars are not taking the force of the impact but ricocheting off of one another. Have any of you noticed that the more realistic games are becoming the easier flaws of realism are to spot? This goes for all games not just forza and gt but games like madden where some tackles look like the player are hugging each other to the ground. And even in EA's NBA series where the feet of the players look they are moving at a faster speed then what the person is traveling or am I just weird for looking into details to much.
- 818
Personally, in my opinion, I don't think you can even compare the two. The Gran Turismo series is way out of Forza's league. For many reasons at that. One of the major ones has to be the fact that GT-PSP doubles the amount of cars FM3 features. I'm convinced GT5 will include more than a thousand cars. The love for cars and racing Polyphony Digital has is absolutely amazing. It outweighs that of Forza.
Physics - If you want the full experience for racing, want it as realistic as possible, then you can't get any better than GT. Now, I have no idea what Microsoft is aiming for, a simulator, or an arcade. Having heard about this "rewind" feature, I think it's safe to say the second one.
Graphics - We all know who wins this. Take a look at the trailer again, you can see dirt and dust on the rally car. And, it was all real footage of the game. And the people who say it's not have clearly not played GT5
Damage - Looking at the recent trailer, the damage looked really impressive. The Subaru's hood seemed to have gotten damaged from the impact of the fall on the ground. And just from that I can expect hitting something straight on will have a much more bigger impact.
Customization - This is where Kazunori Yamauchi's recent comment, "The trailer only shows a small portion of what we're working on." comes in. Who knows? There could be mass customization in this game. I, personally, do, not, want, this. If I wanted it, I'll fire up my Need for Speed: Carbon. I don't have the time, nor want, to be look looking at my car while I'm driving. Gran Turismo isn't America's Top Car. Plus, most of the cars I'll be driving (Ferrari, Audi, BMW) will only look like crap after a customization. What I would like to return though is, the ability to tune performance.
Gameplay - I have never finished any of the GT games to 100%, most I've gotten to is 60% with GT4. This is one of the biggies for GT. The amount of time I can actually spend on the game. I don't think Forza offers nearly as much races as GT. With Rally, (and now NASCAR included), hell no. With all the extra additions like license, test runs, missions, additional races for some manufacturers, is obviously, more gameplay.
Plus, Gran Turismo includes almost all major racing forms. Whether it's NASCAR, WRC, F1 (I'm guessing it'll be included considering there was an F1 in GT5
If anything GT needs to be improved on, it's the online. I did a race and it wasn't that bad. Though I'm sure any issues and improvements will be dealt with for GT5. How the **** do people know if FM3's online will be "so great"? You don't know, you haven't tried it yet. But being able to rewind during online races? Really? Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe this was indeed said in one of the videos I have watched.
If anything, you should compare Forza Motorsport to Project Gotham Racing, they do look pretty identical.
Physics - Can't say until games come out. What you assume about auto rewind making the game arcadish could be correct, it could also be completely wrong and it could have awesome physics and autorewind may bring hordes of new casual gamers into the sim addiction so many of us already have by allowing them to ease into the genre better.
Graphics - As I said earlier, its debatable. I like nice environments which I think Forza 3 has. Also, things like jaggies are very important to "graphics" and we wont know until we play it.
Damage - You're basing that on a few seconds of a short trailer of GT5 which may or may not be actual gameplay (it could just be a movie that is using the game's engine but not actual gameplay). We wont know until both games are out and we can turn the damage up and see what its like.
Customisation - We wont know until GT5 actually announces something solid or we have the game in hand. Previous experience shows FM2 has a decent livery editor and FM3 looks to expand it more... we wont know what GT5 has to offer until further down the track. You may not want this, other people may love it. As someone who is into Aerodynamics, I like the ability to modify the aerodynamic parts of a race car.
Gameplay - Wont know until the games come out. Having stuff like rally may or may not add to the gameplay depending on how well its implemented. Assuming the physics is well implemented, purely tarmac racing could easily have better gameplay than a game that has both rally and tarmac.
Point being - wont know until games come out. At least Forza 3 has a release date which is only 3 months away.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
I dont want to go too deep into this debate because i know that i will be called a GT fanboy again... but:
Forza 3s environment textures are not good, lots of blurry/muddy textures (thats why they release so many screenshots with motion blur, but you can see this in lots of other pics, there are some more objects and things in the background, but this isnt always that "realistic", but "stylish", so yeah, a matter of taste there. And i know people who played the game at the E³ and it has jaggies, the anti aliasing in the pics is faked (which is normal, everyone does this, also PD).
I agree with your other points though, we just dont know and thats why we should stop comparing GT5 with FM3 for now, we can only compare GT5: Prologue to what weve seen from FM3 and thats just as stupid because GT5P is not only 1 1/2 years older, its also not a full fledged game.
- 5,954
- 020 A'dam
- Blitz187
- Are u serious?
I believe there is a detailed thread with frame by frame analysis, I saw somewhere here on GTP, about this. It claims to confirm that the trailer is all gameplay running on the game's engine and NO CGI... I think based on what KY has said recently with the clip only being a "small" part of GT5, we can infer that visual damage or some sort WILL be implemented. This just being an educated guess and slowly creeping towards speculation again the more I type... I will leave it at that... 👍
- 818
I believe the movie is running on the game's engine, but that doesn't mean its actual "gameplay" footage, I'll only believe that once I see it with my own eyes
It could easily be running in some sort of replay mode with higher LOD and higher filters than actual gameplay. It might be "in game", but we wont know until it actually comes out. Replays and intro movies in many games are rendered using what appears to be the game's engine but use higher levels of detail and look better than what you'll see once in the actual game.So yeah, I go back to what I originally said, we can't know until it comes out
I hardly consider a couple of seconds in a short trailer that may or may not be gameplay to give a good indication of what we'll see in the final game. I remember the original Crysis videos looked way better than the final Crysis game, and that was 100% in game footage, this footage we dont even know what it is EDIT:
Yeah, you could be right. My basis for thinking the Forza 3 environments are shots like these from Forza Central...
http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=19902&c=143
http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=19906&c=143
http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=19903&c=143
But you're right that most shots are replay shots that have a lot of motion blur, making it hard to make out how good the details are. But this video looked pretty nice (the interviewer is the biggest Forza fanboy
but just mute the sound, watch in HD, fill screen and fast foward to 4:40 and look at the environment.[YOUTUBEhd]WPpE6FjrV2w[/YOUTUBEhd]
But at the end of the day we're gonna have to wait for the final game and we can see it with our own eyes on our own HDTVs, then and only then will we be able to decide if we find things like distant textures and antialiasing to be acceptable.
Last edited:
- 692
- Dracwolley
THAT. LOOKS. FAKE.
It looks like GT4 when played in HD.
I agree with what someone else said... a while ago... I forget.
FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACING GAME FOR THE GENERATION.
FORZA 3 HAS THE BEST PHYSICS SYSTEM EVER DEVELOPED.
FORZA 3 HAS THE BEST EVERYTHING.
A) It's a load of crap.
B) If you really did make a good game, release it, and you'll get the credit you deserve.
They are so horrible about this release.
They're also doing what Criterion Games did with Big Surf Island.
They're telling so much about it before it comes out, and so much is already known, that nobody is excited about it anymore when the release comes.
PD has class.
Utter class.
Be almost silent about it, but get people ridiculously excited about it with just bits and pieces to put together.
The trailer, for instance.
"We can release it at any time"
"We will announce the release date soon"
etc, etc. They don't boast constantly about how wonderful it is, they just show it for what it is, and leave it at that.
Trust me, they will have so much more hype when it's released.
In my mind, this is the series of events in the PD/Forza "battle" (which, of course, is nothing to PD)
1. More information about Forza 3 is released.
2. "
3. "
4. "
5. GT Mobile is released.
6. More information about Forza 3 is released.
7. The release date for GT5 is released.
8. More information about Forza 3 is released... but no one cares anymore.
9. Another trailer and information about GT5 is released, but only a bit to get us thinking.
10. Forza 3 is released... but no one cares anymore.
11. Yamauchi gives a few more vague hints.
12. Forza's team tries as hard as hell to get their game sold... but no one really cares anymore.
13. Gran Turismo 5 is released.
14. No one plays Forza 3 anymore, and millions and millions of PS3s are bought.
Christmas comes, and Forza 3 doesn't hit a peak in sales at all, but GT5 does incredibly.
Kazunori is smart.
He will win.
...
'nuff said.
It looks like GT4 when played in HD.
I agree with what someone else said... a while ago... I forget.
FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACING GAME FOR THE GENERATION.
FORZA 3 HAS THE BEST PHYSICS SYSTEM EVER DEVELOPED.
FORZA 3 HAS THE BEST EVERYTHING.
A) It's a load of crap.
B) If you really did make a good game, release it, and you'll get the credit you deserve.
They are so horrible about this release.
They're also doing what Criterion Games did with Big Surf Island.
They're telling so much about it before it comes out, and so much is already known, that nobody is excited about it anymore when the release comes.
PD has class.
Utter class.
Be almost silent about it, but get people ridiculously excited about it with just bits and pieces to put together.
The trailer, for instance.
"We can release it at any time"
"We will announce the release date soon"
etc, etc. They don't boast constantly about how wonderful it is, they just show it for what it is, and leave it at that.
Trust me, they will have so much more hype when it's released.
In my mind, this is the series of events in the PD/Forza "battle" (which, of course, is nothing to PD)
1. More information about Forza 3 is released.
2. "
3. "
4. "
5. GT Mobile is released.
6. More information about Forza 3 is released.
7. The release date for GT5 is released.
8. More information about Forza 3 is released... but no one cares anymore.
9. Another trailer and information about GT5 is released, but only a bit to get us thinking.
10. Forza 3 is released... but no one cares anymore.
11. Yamauchi gives a few more vague hints.
12. Forza's team tries as hard as hell to get their game sold... but no one really cares anymore.
13. Gran Turismo 5 is released.
14. No one plays Forza 3 anymore, and millions and millions of PS3s are bought.
Christmas comes, and Forza 3 doesn't hit a peak in sales at all, but GT5 does incredibly.
Kazunori is smart.
He will win.
...
'nuff said.
- 818
Fanboy much?
Why not judge the games, ya know, based on the actual games themselves, rather than pure speculation and guessing. Forza 3 will be out in a few months and you can all then say whether or not its good or not, and GT5 will come out whenever it comes out and you can judge that too. But dont be disappointed if GT5 doesn't live up to your sky high expectations, personally I'm gonna be expecting nothing more than GT5P with more cars and tracks, then hopefully be pleasantly surprised when it comes out.
Why not judge the games, ya know, based on the actual games themselves, rather than pure speculation and guessing. Forza 3 will be out in a few months and you can all then say whether or not its good or not, and GT5 will come out whenever it comes out and you can judge that too. But dont be disappointed if GT5 doesn't live up to your sky high expectations, personally I'm gonna be expecting nothing more than GT5P with more cars and tracks, then hopefully be pleasantly surprised when it comes out.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
@Wolf: Well the 3D backgrounds are quite nice, yes (still too stylised though imo), but look at the grass textures, look at the textures direct at the track, theyre so blurry and washed out (also visible in the latest Le Mans video from Gamersyde, watch it in the FM3 thread), i bet it has a lot to do with compression so it still fits on the DVD.
Im not saying the game looks bad, but its still far away from GT5P, which is, like i mentioned, already 1 1/2 years old.
The graphics department is not debatable anymore, only if you might like more stylised backrounds etc. okay, but not which game looks more real.
EDIT: And one thing, the track in the video is a fantasy track, wait till you see tracks like El Capitan or Grand Valley in GT5, i bet theyre just as stunning with their backgrounds (take a look at Eiger, this one is also extremely nice imho, they rendered the mountains almost perfectly).
Im not saying the game looks bad, but its still far away from GT5P, which is, like i mentioned, already 1 1/2 years old.
The graphics department is not debatable anymore, only if you might like more stylised backrounds etc. okay, but not which game looks more real.
EDIT: And one thing, the track in the video is a fantasy track, wait till you see tracks like El Capitan or Grand Valley in GT5, i bet theyre just as stunning with their backgrounds (take a look at Eiger, this one is also extremely nice imho, they rendered the mountains almost perfectly).
Has anyone noticed that there is no decent ingame screen with a good cockpit view? The image is always so dark, so you really can't see if the modelled it right (ingame!).
The press release screens show this:
But taken from the gameplay movie above:
And really, I didn't do anything to the original image. I just took a screenshot from the gameplay movie a few posts higher. The press released shots look SO much better than the gameplay videos we can watch. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?
Maybe it's an early build, but there seems to be no light reflecting on the cockpit at all. Add this to the badly tinted windows, and I think they're really trying to hide something here.
Just to compare the two: here is a screenshot of GT5, also on a sunny day:
The press release screens show this:
But taken from the gameplay movie above:
And really, I didn't do anything to the original image. I just took a screenshot from the gameplay movie a few posts higher. The press released shots look SO much better than the gameplay videos we can watch. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?
Maybe it's an early build, but there seems to be no light reflecting on the cockpit at all. Add this to the badly tinted windows, and I think they're really trying to hide something here.
Just to compare the two: here is a screenshot of GT5
, also on a sunny day:
There will be millions of people playing Forza3 just like they do with Forza2.
You seem to forget the fact that millions of 360s have been sold and not all of those people have a Ps3 as well as there 360s.
Even though Forza2 is now an old game i can go online today and loads of people still play it.
- 818
Actually I downloaded the 720p version of that Le Mans video from gamersyde (here), all 400mb of it, and the grass doesn't look blurry at all in the 720p version. Maybe when the car is moving at speed its a bit blurry, but when the car drives over the grass or crashes and you can see it clearly, its just as sharp as the track textures, which look pretty good too. Even the grass in the rear view mirror looks pretty sharp to my eyes. The grass on the other 540p video on gamersyde looks pretty good too (here), only 260mb for that one. If I knew how to take screen grabs from them I would show you what I mean, but printscreen just gives a black rectangle where the video should be
EDIT: Actually, only a couple of screenshots I've seen imply that the grass is blurry, namely this one:
http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=19873&c=143
But watching the videos the grass doesn't look nearly that blurry, so I'm not sure what's going on with it. All the other screenshots I've seen with blurry grass are simply motion blur shots or shots where the car is in focuus but the environment isn't, which appears to only happen in replays not in actual gameplay (look at the trees on Le Mans in most shots and they are really heavily motion blurred or out of focus, in that video which I believe is actual gameplay, the trees aren't motion blurred or out of focus).
The trees look a bit odd in the Le Mans video at 720p, can't really put my finger on why though, the trees in GTR evo look much more natural than those trees (when moving at speed at least, when you come to a complete stop the GTR evo trees look ugly, but something about the blur on them looks good as long as the car is moving).
I have noticed there are no good in game shots of the cockpit too, which I find odd, only videos. You can't really take screenshots from a youtube video though, the compression required for even HD videos on youtube loses a lot of the quality. Try downloading the videos I linked from gamersyde, they're big, but have far less issues with compression. Though I'm sure even they are losing a lot of quality due to compression (and I believe they are both taken using a camera rather than a video taken directly from the video stream).
Soooo, point being once again, even as far as graphics are concerned I'm gonna be waiting until the final games are out before I start judging them
Last edited:
- 489
You know, back in the day when the first Screenshots of Forza 2 were released everyone was like: "uuuhh its looking as good as Gran Turismo HD, or even better" and as the final Games was released it couldnt live up to the hyped screenshots. Forza 2 basicly looks like Ferrari Challenge on PS3 in case you have played it.
- 818
- 818
Yeah, they dont really have much time left to polish the game, though I have no idea what's going on with the lighting. Most videos I've seen have way too much contrast between the dark and bright areas of the game, yet the screenshots like the ones you posted above are washed out, and to make them look decent I need to turn down my monitor brightness and gamma. Like this one...
- Status
Similar threads
