Global Protests Against Social Distancing, Lockdown, Vaccine Mandate

  • Thread starter Dotini
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Danoff
Maybe. I dunno. I've been around a lot of gun owners. They often rally around the notion that the presence of guns is not a presence of danger or violence, but the contrary. You should hear them talk about how safe firing ranges are, and how America has allowed a disarmed population to be normalized, and how they'd like to change that. In some cases, people will say things like "if you could just get people to come to a firing range and see how everyone has a gun and nobody gets hurt..."

It is something that's quite near the core of gun culture.
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Change that how? By requiring everyone to own at least one gun? I'm kind of puzzled by that. I've never owned a gun, won't ever own a gun, and don't want anything to do with them and a couple of my co-workers think I'm odd for that especially down here in Alabama. I guess I don't understand the term normalized in this particular instance.
 
Jezza819
Change that how? By requiring everyone to own at least one gun? I'm kind of puzzled by that. I've never owned a gun, won't ever own a gun, and don't want anything to do with them and a couple of my co-workers think I'm odd for that especially down here in Alabama. I guess I don't understand the term normalized in this particular instance.
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May I respectfully ask you to take your opinion of guns to another thread, please? Unless you can directly relate such to the OP.
 
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Blood Eagle
I only had to type in "Iranian" into the search to find this one.

View attachment 913709

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/islam-whats-your-view-on-it.263208/page-176#post-12993759
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I'm not judging them based on their identity, I'm judging them based on their action of bringing guns to a protest. I don't think that's inconsistent with what I've said before.

Danoff
Maybe. I dunno. I've been around a lot of gun owners. They often rally around the notion that the presence of guns is not a presence of danger or violence, but the contrary. You should hear them talk about how safe firing ranges are, and how America has allowed a disarmed population to be normalized, and how they'd like to change that. In some cases, people will say things like "if you could just get people to come to a firing range and see how everyone has a gun and nobody gets hurt..."

It is something that's quite near the core of gun culture.
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I'm gonna have to get back to you on this later - I really need to do some work. Generally, this is not really my experience with gun owners, but that could be a difference in socio-economic kind of strata.
 
Blood Eagle
If you are doing that peacefully, it's fine.
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Yeah, but if I bring my windowless van up there, I'm lucky to just get a ticket.

(That and only one damaged control arm, but that's besides the point.)
 
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Blood Eagle
I'm not sure I understand the reference or correlation.
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I think his point is they can freely walk around with their guns but he can't drive his windowless jalopy down there.
I get his point but I think it's irrelevant.
Both require a license and certain rules to follow.
 
ryzno
I think his point is they can freely walk around with their guns but he can't drive his windowless jalopy down there.
I get his point but I think it's irrelevant.
Both require a license and certain rules to follow.
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Just to follow that up... I still don't understand. You need a license for a panelled van that's different from the one for a car/minibus/dayvan type of thing?
 
TenEightyOne
Just to follow that up... I still don't understand. You need a license for a panelled van that's different from the one for a car/minibus/dayvan type of thing?
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It's more of weight classes and commercial/private. While they might theoretically be the same "base truck". It's a whole nother thing driving some proper weight.
Personally I can drive anything <26Klbs with a <10klbs trailer. But commercial I can't drive anything over 12K with a <10K trailer without a DOT physical...
And I can't drive anything over 26K/10K without a CDL, which requires a DOT physical...
 
ryzno
I think his point is they can freely walk around with their guns but he can't drive his windowless jalopy down there.
I get his point but I think it's irrelevant.
Both require a license and certain rules to follow.
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It kind of reads like, "I can't take my van up there because the government won't let me use my personal property"

So I propose Constitutional Amendment 69: The right to keep and bear a windowless van shall not be infringed.
 
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This is so sad...

BB136Srd.jpg


"It was heated, people were very fired up about what they had to say," she said. "A lot of the top comments we got were about us being fake nurses, there was a huge majority of them that still believe this virus is fake, that it's a hoax and not real at all. They were convinced that we're fake nurses and that's why we weren't talking." ​
 
I still don't get how anyone thinks the virus is fake. I mean I can understand people thinking it's not as serious as it's being made out to be or that it's not as widespread, but to flat out deny the virus exists? You have to be a special kind of ignorant to think that. Although, there are people who think the Earth is flat so maybe I'm putting too much faith in humanity.
 
Joey D
I still don't get how anyone thinks the virus is fake. I mean I can understand people thinking it's not as serious as it's being made out to be or that it's not as widespread, but to flat out deny the virus exists? You have to be a special kind of ignorant to think that. Although, there are people who think the Earth is flat so maybe I'm putting too much faith in humanity.
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It is commonly said and even printed that the virus is invisible. "An invisible enemy, blah blah". It can be seen on the electron microscope, but few have them.

Some really strange people must feel that suddenly losing their freedom, mobility, livelihood, rights to assemble, income, etc. all on account of an invisible enemy is a too much to stomach. Me, I'm laughing.
 
Joey D
I still don't get how anyone thinks the virus is fake. I mean I can understand people thinking it's not as serious as it's being made out to be or that it's not as widespread, but to flat out deny the virus exists? You have to be a special kind of ignorant to think that.
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These are the same people who believe that Trump is a "great President" ...
 
Found this online and agree on most points.
I’ve read a lot of posts for and against reopening the country. Many attacking those who protest or want to open businesses back up as selfish and reckless. It got me to thinking.

There are those wanting to reopen, yet they’re being classified as selfish or worse. There are also those that rely on all kinds of people to supply them while they cower in fear at home. Isn’t that also being selfish?

You expect your garbage to be picked up.

You expect the grocery store to be open so you can get food to feed your family.

You expect truck drivers to supply the stores.

You expect farmers, meatpackers, fruit and vegetable pickers all to keep food in that grocery store.

You expect Amazon to still ship all the things you’re ordering while you sit at home shopping.

You expect the delivery driver to leave it on your doorstep.
You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine.

And of course you can't forget these healthcare workers and all they do.

The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay "safe" in your home.

I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to go out to concerts, and yes, I want to see my Barber for a haircut

And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold. I could get run over by a bus. I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?

Our economy can’t withstand much more of this. If our economy collapses, so will every other economy worldwide.
If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants.

I absolutely don’t want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live.

But sheltering in place is not living.

-Travis Owens
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VolkswagenX
Found this online and agree on most points.
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I don't.

"The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay "safe" in your home."

I strongly suspect that most people who are sheltering in place, in the US or elsewhere, are not doing so because they are scared of the virus themselves. They are doing it because they are concerned for the well-being of other people & they recognize that social isolation is currently the only way to prevent the uncontrolled spread of the virus & the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. There's nothing selfish or arrogant about that.
 
VolkswagenX
Found this online and agree on most points.
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If Travis gets his way the US economy would collapse via a different reason, in particular its healthcare system.

Travis thinks Covid-19 is only as bad as the Flu or Common Cold.

Travis is an idiot.

Don't be like Travis.


Parts of the US population have turned into the caricature of Capitalism that the USSR used to pedal, that the dollar is to put above all else, including the lives of the people. All the while using the argument of personal freedom as an excuse, morons that during the Blitz would have opened the curtains and let the lights blaze out, because, its my personal right to do so.

The concept of essential workers is not a difficult one to grasp, the fact that this is not like 'the common cold or flu' is not a difficult one to grasp. the fact that countries that have put lockdown in place, along with testing and tracing, have not gone bust is not difficult to understand. The need to undergo personal short-term inconvenience, for the long term good of the majority used to be well understood by Americans, as the danger of pandemics and viral outbreaks was, now that pragmatism is lost on some to the cult of the 'I' and the importance of the dollar above all.

Americans used to understand.

Sign1.jpg
 
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Travis
And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold. I could get run over by a bus. I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?
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I'm not sure what sounds dumber/more suspect to me, comparing the virus to diseases like colds or flu (which unlike COVID-19 is controlled by widespread vaccination) or comparing the risk of being struck by lightning to the far greater risk of spreading the virus and overwhelming the health system.

But I guess it's what some people want to hear. That they are the virtuous ones and that the people who support sheltering in place are the dumb and arrogant ones. An elaborate "no u!".
 
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I am not resisting testing. If it were convenient to do, and I were confident the tests were reliable, I would do it. But basically, I do not need to test at the moment because I am healthy, well isolated and have no symptoms.

Testing is most urgent for those who are with symptoms, under treatment, or are essential workers. I will be last in line, but it will eventually happen.
 
Dotini
I am not resisting testing. If it were convenient to do, and I were confident the tests were reliable, I would do it. But basically, I do not need to test at the moment because I am healthy, well isolated and have no symptoms.

Testing is most urgent for those who are with symptoms, under treatment, or are essential workers. I will be last in line, but it will eventually happen.
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Testing is one route to getting the economy open as quickly as possible. If we can prove antibodies are effective then antibody testing will allow for health passports to be issued and people to return to work as they pose no risk. Testing is critical.
 
VolkswagenX
Found this online and agree on most points.
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Biggles
I don't.

"The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay "safe" in your home."

I strongly suspect that most people who are sheltering in place, in the US or elsewhere, are not doing so because they are scared of the virus themselves. They are doing it because they are concerned for the well-being of other people & they recognize that social isolation is currently the only way to prevent the uncontrolled spread of the virus & the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. There's nothing selfish or arrogant about that.
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It misses the point of the stay-at-home orders, and... basically everything.

The stay-at-home orders are to protect the entire region against triage at the hospital. Not to protect against COVID-19. If the stay-at-home orders were to protect against COVID-19, you'd enact them before you had a single case, before you had even a chance of an undocumented case, and you'd keep them in place until a vaccine was available. Instead, stay-at-home was performed rather methodically across the country by governers who were listening to disease scientist forecasts and hospital capacities in a way that allows the virus to take hold, and starts moving patients through the healthcare system without overwhelming it. That's the whole point.

And stay-at-home does not increase the risk to an amazon delivery worker or trash person. It helps enable them to keep doing their job because the nearby hospital is not overwhelmed by patients and can still handle them if they get sick or injured. Without the stay-at-home order, presumably the local hospital is overwhelmed, and the virus spreads rapidly, disrupting supply chains more effectively, and causing triage at the hospital for lots of illnesses and injuries, not just COVID-19.

Stay-at-home is not a sacrificing the delivery worker for the pampered person at home. It is sacrificing the livelihood of the (potentially) unemployed person at home to hopefully prevent someone from dying at the hospital. That's how much that little editorial misunderstands the situation. The person at home is the one paying the penalty. And it's not because they're bored... it's because they might be losing their job. And it's not necessarily altruistic, it's under penalty of law.
 
jjaisli
That's true but he IS keeping himself isolated and away from everybody. So if he was, or is infected, at least he's not passing it on to anybody else.
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Well, isolated is not the same as total isolation, the later is almost impossible.

However, I was challenging the concept that symptom-free is the same as not requiring testing.
 
Scaff
Well, isolated is not the same as total isolation, the later is almost impossible.

However, I was challenging the concept that symptom-free is the same as not requiring testing.
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I understand and agree. But this was probably the only time in years I felt the need to defend one of Dotini's statements. And it's unlikely to happen again so I felt I should. :D
 
I have not been in close contact with anyone whatsoever since mid-February. On the rare occasion I go out for a walk, I am masked and gloved and always observe rigorous social distancing. Nothing comes into my home without decontamination protocol. I doubt my situation will change, at least for another couple of months, maybe never. I will undergo a test when they become available at my local pharmacy or clinic, and when I feel quite confident they are reliable, which is not the case now. Testing remains very rare in my region. Once reliable, inexpensive and widely available testing is established, some people like front line health workers and will probably have to undergo testing on regular and frequent occasions.

The overall pandemic situation is fluid, with new unproven, non-peer reviewed science observations being reported all the time. The latest and most disturbing is that contracting the virus and recovering from it is no guarantee of immunity or safety from reinfection or relapse. Another is that the virus can rain down from directly overhead on pollution particles. You could be in the middle of a lake or an empty parking lot and still get it. Yet another is that, just like the common cold, there will never be an effective vaccine for novel coronavirus. Now, there may be over 40 mutations, and the virus is constantly finding new pathways to infect us. I do not believe there has ever been an effective vaccine for any human coronavirus.

REMINDER:
The central question this thread is exploring is the balance in America between human health and safety on one hand, and freedom, democracy, and the Bill of Rights on the other.

My personal opinion is that the pandemic is a good, solid kick in the teeth of global humanity - a reality check. A bringer of humility and awareness of our vulnerability. We now begin to understand clearly that we are not prepared and have much to learn and to correct.
 
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Dotini
REMINDER:
The central question this thread is exploring is the balance in America between human health and safety on one hand, and freedom, democracy, and the Bill of Rights on the other.

My personal opinion is that the pandemic is a good, solid kick in the teeth of global humanity - a reality check. A bringer of humility and awareness of our vulnerability. We now begin to understand clearly that we are not prepared and have much to learn and to correct.
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It was probably never possible to fully prevent the spread here in the States. There are some cultural differences between Americans and other places that wouldn't allow us to be as successful as other countries and their plan of actions. You would need a total invasion of privacy, bans on foreigners, a society well versed in social distancing and a compliant society. US doesn't really check any of those. So unless bodies are stacking up outside of our towns where we could visually see it, I knew it was only a matter of time before people started to push back. Americans are probably more likely to listen to government when it makes sense rather than believe everything they are being told all the time. So there are now some that don't feel it makes sense anymore as well as some who never thought it made any sense, this was bound to happen. Some other places are probably more inclined to listen to everything they are being told and hardly question it. Americans don't really like being told what to do.
 
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I found this gem while determing the origins of another image.

uvh7u8n33mt41.jpg


While not quite as stupid as the other image, this is still just next level stupid.
 

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