Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

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Are you disappointed GT7 is also on PS4 with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations?


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My hype is fading pretty fast, the old consoles will bottle neck every aspect of the game. This might be the final kick in the arse I need to switch to PC since GT is the only reason why I’m on Playstation in the first place.
Quoting myself here since I think I need to clear a couple things up.

GT is far from the only game I play, all of the other games I play are available on all platforms so it doesn’t matter what platform I choose when it comes to those. I only buy Playstation because of the GT series. I started playing this series when I was a kid in the late 90s, so no doubt I am passionate about it.

And no I don’t feel like I jumped the gun at all by buying a PS5. I bought this system because I know the limitations my base ps4, it struggles with a lot of games that have come out lately. With that in the back of my mind, my expectations are low and I think the criticisms are completely justified.
 
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The GT7 page on the PlayStation website still says PS5 only...
Because they've still not chosen to officially announce it, or rather acknowledge all of the leaked info. It seems rather likely to me that they're planning to "re-announce" the game at some point in the future and almost pretend the first announcement didn't even really happen. The official GT website still barely mentions it.

"Gran Turismo 7. Coming Holiday 2022 to PS4 and PS5" at the end of the trailer as if nothing else happened is my guess, around next May.
 
Well no, but I don't think anyone was suggesting it would sell those numbers. Just that whatever numbers it does do in say the first 6 months, would be more than PS4 in the same timeframe. As others have said, it's already been true of many other games. Remember as well the early adopters are always the most hardcore gamers, with or without a shortage availability. Combine that with less games available and attach rates are far higher than later in the console life with millions of casual gamers. So I think GT7 absolutely could easily do 7+ from the first 25-30m sales on PS5. PS4 probably wouldn't be that far behind, maybe 3-4m.

Depends a lot on how good the game is though of course, but I think a good return to a full numbered GT game could move the sales figures back towards 15m total.
That's true. I got a PS5 on launch day and went ahead and bought Demon's Souls, among other games, even though I still haven't played past the first hour. I like it and plan to finish it one day but it's not quite my jam. I'm broke/more frugal now (and working on the backlog) so I haven't gotten around to R&C or Returnal but I would imagine that, with so few true first party PS5 games, a large number of PS5 owners are buying these games automatically. GT7 will not be an exception.
 
To be fair, people were buying GT3 at that point, given that GT2 was a PS1 game :D


GT6 launched to the largest number of consoles in the history of GT games, and absolutely tanked - at least in GT terms. In fact launching to a larger customer base seems to have a negative effect on lifetime game sales for GT games. Here, have a table:



GameConsoleConsoles at Game LaunchFinal Game Sales
Gran TurismoPlayStation29.8 million10.8 million
Gran Turismo 2PlayStation70.0 million9.4 million
Gran Turismo 3: A-SpecPlayStation 228.7 million14.9 million
Gran Turismo 4PlayStation 284.9 million11.8 million
Gran Turismo 5PlayStation 341.8 million11.9 million
Gran Turismo 6PlayStation 380.0 million5.2 million
Gran Turismo SportPlayStation 467.5 million>8 million

That all rather looks like the ~22m PS5s around at GT7's launch would be a better bet than 135m consoles across PS4 and PS5 - though of course if it does launch as a cross-gen game, it will be technically the first to do so (though PS2s could play GT1-4, and some PS3s could play GT1-6).
This is why the decision to make GT7 cross-gen is stupid! A bigger install base doesn't equate to more players!
 
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GT6 is an interesting case as that probably could have been the first cross-gen GT release if they made it playable on PS4. Kind of like whats happening now with games getting better res/fps. Also since the release was right around the same time, it would make sense to do so. With GT7 however that launch window spread gets further apart with delays where it wouldnt make sense to do it in the timeframe they have now, but they seem to already be in too deep into it.
Maybe, but that seems like it would have been even more of a clusterfridge. If GT6 on PS4 was the same as GT6 on PS3 but with a stable frame rate and maybe some graphical bells and whistles, that changes almost nothing about what made that game a disaster. Arguably it just exposes it to more people who are then even more disappointed when their next gen game is half-baked and missing advertised content.
 
Will wait for the official announcement on console parity cos I can't wrap my head around this.

Seems weird that PD aren't allowed to focus on the PS5 console features/technology and backport GT7 singleplayer as (standalone) DLC for GT sport for ps4.
 
I have no idea why the cross-gen idea makes me so mad and unmotivated, but no I can not wait another 5+ years for a PS6 and a NEW gen GT.
Not gonna buy a PS5 if it's on PS4 and I'm really skeptical buying GT7 on PS4.
I don't want to be disappointed. Been waiting so many years and trying to calm my impatience with GTS.
I don't want a N E W GT title with the same features than the previous gen title I've been playing for 4 years.
Or what? PS4 players will have different Nations/Manufacturers schedules or settings? Different races? Different physics? PS4 can't hold dynamic stuff.
If they can somehow make the title in both consoles a masterpiece so we get surprised and amazed, then ok.
Otherwise my only reason for a PS5 in the future, would be GTA 6. And oh boy, that's faaar in the future!...
So PS3 can handle dynamic weather but PS4 can't? Many other games have great dynamic time and weather on PS4. GT7 will be just fine on PS4 and 5. 5 will look better as it should and the 4 version would be just fine. GT7 probably just GTS with more stuff and new GUI anyway. GT7 will be just fine on both platforms and will look better on 5 which is the point of the 5 anyway. Just my thoughts though.
 
So PS3 can handle dynamic weather but PS4 can't? Many other games have great dynamic time and weather on PS4. GT7 will be just fine on PS4 and 5. 5 will look better as it should and the 4 version would be just fine. GT7 probably just GTS with more stuff and new GUI anyway. GT7 will be just fine on both platforms and will look better on 5 which is the point of the 5 anyway. Just my thoughts though.
PS3 didn't "handle" dynamic weather considering the target framerate for GT5 & 6 was supposed to 60 and the game would dip into the low 30s and 20s.

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Other games on PS4 with dynamic time and weather either run at 30fps or would dip to 30-low 40s with a 60fps target. Dunno why some of you guys keep ignoring framerate in which Kaz stated they wanted a stable 60fps and was the reason why they dropped dynamics for GTSport. Maybe they'll get dynamic weather back, but I wouldn't bet on dynamic time + weather + notably improved physics sim. If the rain physics are still as rudimentary then dynamic weather would be pretty pointless.

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Will wait for the official announcement on console parity cos I can't wrap my head around this.

Seems weird that PD aren't allowed to focus on the PS5 console features/technology and backport GT7 singleplayer as (standalone) DLC for GT sport for ps4.
I'm not sure that this is necessarily a Sony edict. Sony have been pretty permissive with Polyphony in the past, helped by the fact that Kaz was very senior within SCE/SIE, although I don't know what his status is like now.

Clearly offering the option is a Sony idea, but Polyphony may have chosen to take it on their own. They've done much weirder things in the past, and after the odd releases of GT6 and GTS this doesn't really stick out as something that Polyphony absolutely wouldn't want to do.

So PS3 can handle dynamic weather but PS4 can't? Many other games have great dynamic time and weather on PS4. GT7 will be just fine on PS4 and 5. 5 will look better as it should and the 4 version would be just fine. GT7 probably just GTS with more stuff and new GUI anyway. GT7 will be just fine on both platforms and will look better on 5 which is the point of the 5 anyway. Just my thoughts though.
Games have been able to handle dynamic weather for literal decades, it's just about how far you want to push the rest of the game at the same time.

PS3 couldn't handle dynamic weather in the implementation that Polyphony had in GT5 and 6 - it tanked the frame rate and made the game play really badly. It's not that it couldn't have been done on the hardware, it just couldn't be done with a game that was as graphically taxing as GT5/6.

PS4 could have had dynamic weather and a stable frame rate, but GTS wouldn't have been as pretty if it did.

PS5 can have dynamic weather if they think that they can balance frame rate with what the game needs in terms of visual splendour for a first party release. I think it's totally doable if they're smart about it and GTS suggests that perhaps they've finally got a handle on balancing the computational needs of the various sub-systems that make up the game, but they may well decide that it's still not worth it for what they'd have to sacrifice.

If the rain physics are still as rudimentary then dynamic weather would be pretty pointless.
This is the main problem I see. Polyphony thinks that dirt and rain are just slippery dry tarmac. Actually driving in the wet is hard, and it's going to be tough to make that both playable and enjoyable for a casual audience. But it can be done, and I don't think a first party studio should be avoiding something just because it's hard.

If Polyphony can get something where you actually get faster by learning where the puddles are and how to handle your car so it doesn't get upset by the changing traction I'll buy Kaz a whole box of Pocky. Two whole boxes even.
 
I'm not sure that this is necessarily a Sony edict. Sony have been pretty permissive with Polyphony in the past, helped by the fact that Kaz was very senior within SCE/SIE, although I don't know what his status is like now.

Clearly offering the option is a Sony idea, but Polyphony may have chosen to take it on their own. They've done much weirder things in the past, and after the odd releases of GT6 and GTS this doesn't really stick out as something that Polyphony absolutely wouldn't want to do.


Games have been able to handle dynamic weather for literal decades, it's just about how far you want to push the rest of the game at the same time.

PS3 couldn't handle dynamic weather in the implementation that Polyphony had in GT5 and 6 - it tanked the frame rate and made the game play really badly. It's not that it couldn't have been done on the hardware, it just couldn't be done with a game that was as graphically taxing as GT5/6.

PS4 could have had dynamic weather and a stable frame rate, but GTS wouldn't have been as pretty if it did.

PS5 can have dynamic weather if they think that they can balance frame rate with what the game needs in terms of visual splendour for a first party release. I think it's totally doable if they're smart about it and GTS suggests that perhaps they've finally got a handle on balancing the computational needs of the various sub-systems that make up the game, but they may well decide that it's still not worth it for what they'd have to sacrifice.


This is the main problem I see. Polyphony thinks that dirt and rain are just slippery dry tarmac. Actually driving in the wet is hard, and it's going to be tough to make that both playable and enjoyable for a casual audience. But it can be done, and I don't think a first party studio should be avoiding something just because it's hard.

If Polyphony can get something where you actually get faster by learning where the puddles are and how to handle your car so it doesn't get upset by the changing traction I'll buy Kaz a whole box of Pocky. Two whole boxes even.
No denying that Kaz made some questionable game design before but making the game as cross gen was made fairly recently. That just means he never intended to develop it on last gen console in the first place. He has never made two separate version of a game at once before, so why do it now? just for the f of it? I doubt it. He has position at Sony and full freedom on what to do with his games but he's not the one financing it.
 
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To be fair, people were buying GT3 at that point, given that GT2 was a PS1 game :D


GT6 launched to the largest number of consoles in the history of GT games, and absolutely tanked - at least in GT terms. In fact launching to a larger customer base seems to have a negative effect on lifetime game sales for GT games. Here, have a table:



GameConsoleConsoles at Game LaunchFinal Game Sales
Gran TurismoPlayStation29.8 million10.8 million
Gran Turismo 2PlayStation70.0 million9.4 million
Gran Turismo 3: A-SpecPlayStation 228.7 million14.9 million
Gran Turismo 4PlayStation 284.9 million11.8 million
Gran Turismo 5PlayStation 341.8 million11.9 million
Gran Turismo 6PlayStation 380.0 million5.2 million
Gran Turismo SportPlayStation 467.5 million>8 million

That all rather looks like the ~22m PS5s around at GT7's launch would be a better bet than 135m consoles across PS4 and PS5 - though of course if it does launch as a cross-gen game, it will be technically the first to do so (though PS2s could play GT1-4, and some PS3s could play GT1-6).
Its not playerbase have negative effects on sales, its previous title in series that has 90% of features and content of next game making purchase not worth it. Casual player dont see any difference between GT5 and GT6.

GT7 would be promoted as proper single player GT experience, unlike multiplayer oriented GTS.
 
Maybe, but that seems like it would have been even more of a clusterfridge. If GT6 on PS4 was the same as GT6 on PS3 but with a stable frame rate and maybe some graphical bells and whistles, that changes almost nothing about what made that game a disaster. Arguably it just exposes it to more people who are then even more disappointed when their next gen game is half-baked and missing advertised content.
Well yeah thats the point, your opinion notwithstanding, exposing it to more people, ie more sales. I'm sure there were many discussions with Sony brass about releasing a high value IP only on PS3 after releasing the PS4 when other games released on both. But whatever, Itll be interesting to see how all this plays out.
 
Well yeah thats the point, your opinion notwithstanding, exposing it to more people, ie more sales. I'm sure there were many discussions with Sony brass about releasing a high value IP only on PS3 after releasing the PS4 when other games released on both. But whatever, Itll be interesting to see how all this plays out.
No, it means more early sales. Gran Turismo games seem to sell ~10 million over the lifetime of the console pretty much regardless, so there's very little to support the idea that it will result in more sales over the long term.

It does mean that there's potentially more people who will be able to purchase in the first six months, which if they avoid going straight to the bargain bin like GTS will potentially result in more money for them in the short term. With GT6 it was never going to work because the game was fundamentally rushed out two years early. With GT7 it might be OK if they put together a good game, but there's also the chance that it ends up like Cyberpunk 2077 where it's technically playable on previous gen but realistically all it does is damage the brand.

GT7 will sell well regardless just like CP2077 did, which I'm sure people will use to justify the idea that releasing cross platform was correct. But we won't know until GT8 because that's when we'll see what, if any, damage has been done to the brand. I doubt many people are going to be falling over themselves to buy CDPRs next game.
 
Ah, yes. Poor Sony. They only have checks notes the fastest selling console in the history of the game industry and checks notes a higher online usage/attach rate than the previous console generation when the previous records for that were set by checks notes Sony.


I can definitely see why they couldn't release a game exclusively for that new console ~24 months after it released after advertising it as such, because truly they are in trying times.
PS5 being the fastest selling console for them is irrelevant, because at the same time Sony’s gaming division has grown. In correlation with this growth comes higher demands and market expectations for generating more turnover. The microchip shortage is something they probably didn’t anticipate to this extent when the console launched. So yes indeed, poor Sony. Not that I’m trying to say we should feel pity for them, but the situation does explain why questionable decisions may flourish.

Obviously, making GT7 PS4 compatible is not going to save the day singlehandedly, but they’ll act on any option that can help to compensate for lost income throughout the corporation.
 
That’s why I asked the question about GT7 sales. No matter if it’s available for both consoles, Sony can spin the sales as total GT7 sales. Not split GT7-PS5 or GT7-PS4. It’d probably be the most sold GT in the franchise due to combined sales. Then, as mentioned above about PS5 production, GT7-PS4 owners switching to PS5. Once those players register/download the game on that new PS5 system, how does that register total sales?
 
No, it means more early sales. Gran Turismo games seem to sell ~10 million over the lifetime of the console pretty much regardless, so there's very little to support the idea that it will result in more sales over the long term.

It does mean that there's potentially more people who will be able to purchase in the first six months, which if they avoid going straight to the bargain bin like GTS will potentially result in more money for them in the short term. With GT6 it was never going to work because the game was fundamentally rushed out two years early. With GT7 it might be OK if they put together a good game, but there's also the chance that it ends up like Cyberpunk 2077 where it's technically playable on previous gen but realistically all it does is damage the brand.

GT7 will sell well regardless just like CP2077 did, which I'm sure people will use to justify the idea that releasing cross platform was correct. But we won't know until GT8 because that's when we'll see what, if any, damage has been done to the brand. I doubt many people are going to be falling over themselves to buy CDPRs next game.
Huh?.. so like the sales would even out regardless of releasing on both consoles? Isnt the whole point of publishers releasing their games on both PS3/PS4 to maximize sales since there are buyers on both platforms. Is Gran Turismo some outlier where releasing on both would have been different from other games.
And I'd bet millions would dive right into another Witcher game.

That’s why I asked the question about GT7 sales. No matter if it’s available for both consoles, Sony can spin the sales as total GT7 sales. Not split GT7-PS5 or GT7-PS4. It’d probably be the most sold GT in the franchise due to combined sales. Then, as mentioned above about PS5 production, GT7-PS4 owners switching to PS5. Once those players register/download the game on that new PS5 system, how does that register total sales?
For physical copies I think there are sku trackers people keep tabs on but who knows for digital sales unless Sony gives out that info. But upgrading to PS5 accounts would not add to sales, it would still be on the same account holder. Unless there were some upcharge for the PS5 version.
 
I'm going to assume GT7 was designed for the ps5 from the get go and then later a decision was made to adapt to PS4 also.
With this in mind id expect it to be a next gen game that's scalable to a PS4 rather like Forza horizon 5 is going to be, scalable LOD models, resolution etc
Possibly adaptive physics to suit dynamic weather/day and particle physics with crashes on the ps5.

Being a ps5 owner since Feb I'm loving the cross gen games that the ps5 takes advantage off, we are back to 60fps again just like PS2 days, framerate over resolution anyday. Control complete edition, spiderman etc are superb.
I'm not too worried but id rather we have some news soon instead of speculation.
 
Huh?.. so like the sales would even out regardless of releasing on both consoles? Isnt the whole point of publishers releasing their games on both PS3/PS4 to maximize sales since there are buyers on both platforms. Is Gran Turismo some outlier where releasing on both would have been different from other games.
We don't know, but yeah, maybe. We don't know what the point of publishers releasing across console generations is, because it's not really a universally used method. The assumption is usually that when it doesn't happen it's to drive hardware sales, and so presumably when it does happen it's to drive software sales.

But what about something like GT where there's reasonable evidence that there's only 10-15 million people actually interested in buying the game at any given time, and you're already more or less guaranteed to reach that by releasing on a single console? Are there really extra sales to be had, or are you trading off a better game from running only on stronger hardware with maybe getting more sales in that first six months before the game ends up in the bargain bin? Is making that money up front worthwhile in the longer term, or are you going to lose yourself more money on later installments of the game than you make by following this strategy? Does Sony need that money right now, or can they play the long game and continue to build their franchises?

This isn't simple, and without data that only Sony likely has access to some of these questions can't be answered. But it's by no means a slam dunk that releasing across generations is always going to be the best decision.
And I'd bet millions would dive right into another Witcher game.
I'm sure there are, but I'd also bet that it's less after the Cyberpunk fiasco. Consumers are mostly not idiots. Sure, there are people with more money than sense, and there are people who are so invested in particular franchises or properties that they'd buy a game even if they had to crawl over broken glass to do so. But for most people their history with a franchise or developer matters.

For example, I think TW3 is one of my my favourite games of all time, so if they make another one I'll certainly be strongly looking at buying it. But after CP2077 I'll be doing my research first, whereas if they'd released another Witcher game straight after TW3 I would have lined up at midnight to buy it sight unseen and no questions asked. CDPR haven't necessarily lost my sale, but they've absolutely got me thinking more carefully about whether I really want to buy their game.

As far as Polyphony, they lost me for GTS after what happened with GT5 and 6. I did not buy a PS4 and didn't buy GTS largely on the strength of my poor experience with GT5 and 6 (aided by the fact that a lot of the other games that I liked were becoming cross platform). I gave them the benefit of the doubt with GT6, and I just wasn't interested in buying another game off of them until I had solid evidence that they'd turned themselves around. I think GTS seems like it's done a fairly good job of that, and I'm interested to see what GT7 looks like when it gets closer to release. But it's by no means a guaranteed purchase for me like every Gran Turismo before 6 was.

This is how goodwill works. It's not all or nothing, it's nuance. You don't lose customers outright (unless you're ActiBlizz apparently, but they can go choke on a satchel of sausages), but you do start turning people off your brand. And with that lack of excitement there's a greater chance that customers just decide that their money is better spent on something that isn't your product. It's not that hard to have half the people who bought your product think "meh, wasn't that great, I wouldn't buy another one".
 
I'm going to assume GT7 was designed for the ps5 from the get go and then later a decision was made to adapt to PS4 also.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that GT7 was destined for PS4. GTS being a place holder to give them a little more time, until they realized they could adapt it for long term use. Until 2 or so years ago that PS5 talks began, they adapted it to the PS5. Fast forward until now when PS5 availability isn't where they thought it would be, and are going back to make it PS4 capable.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that GT7 was destined for PS4. GTS being a place holder to give them a little more time, until they realized they could adapt it for long term use. Until 2 or so years ago that PS5 talks began, they adapted it to the PS5. Fast forward until now when PS5 availability isn't where they thought it would be, and are going back to make it PS4 capable.
That trailer we've seen a year ago just smells like PS4. If you didn't tell me that was GT7 (for PS5) and just shown me the footage, i would have said, this looks like a classic track DLC for GT Sport for PS4. No way i'd have thought its GT7.
 
That trailer we've seen a year ago just smells like PS4. If you didn't tell me that was GT7 (for PS5) and just shown me the footage, i would have said, this looks like a classic track DLC for GT Sport for PS4. No way i'd have thought its GT7.
It is pretty staggering that there wasn't a significant jump to what we were shown after 3 years of "development." Although that trailer we were shown was probably a few months old just sitting in a folder to be released at the presentation. So I would expect a measurable gap if we're shown something by the end of the year.
 
PS4 cannot have a rear view mirror with that much detail. Let alone more frames and better lighting like the GT7 trailer.

I expect everything to be “baked in” as well. Nothing dynamic due to old consoles.
 
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i think the number of cars on track might get limited on ps4 or visual quality drastically reduced. I expect way worse weather effects, but the physics model should be just fine on ps4. I just see no reasons to worry if i was a ps5 owner(that i might be by the time GT7 is out). There's still space for GT8 to expand the game into a full fledged next gen title.
 
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If GT7 on PS4 is the same as GTS on PS4, we may see the extra 10 cars in Arcade Mode grids. It’s built into that game. PD for whatever reason, haven’t activated it. It’ll possibly be just a more enhanced version for GT7. 30 cars. Maybe the 24 cars in Sport Mode.
 
If GT7 on PS4 is the same as GTS on PS4, we may see the extra 10 cars in Arcade Mode grids. It’s built into that game. PD for whatever reason, haven’t activated it. It’ll possibly be just a more enhanced version for GT7. 30 cars. Maybe the 24 cars in Sport Mode.
I would imagine that it not being activated is likely due to the fact that it may hinder performance more than they're comfortable with.
 
GTS has excellent performance with 38 cars on track in all conditions on the base PS4, I'm sure it could handle even more before the framerate started being affected.

I wonder if the tracks have a coded grid slot limit and that's why the game locks up with more than 38 cars added. 🤔

iirc, Tokyo has a 30 limit. I will have to see if it's possible to get 40+ cars by looking into the tracks.
 
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