Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Klik]

The physics are better but we need better force feedback on racing wheel. Its impossible to feel what is car doing (losing grip/oversteer/understeer) and have some tarmac surface feel

 

[Tenacious D]

Also, i think this thread is about physics in gt, not about setting up cars that are handling bad.

Well, but they do kind of go hand in hand. When a car is exhibiting troublesome behavior, which in many cases is due to the somewhat iffy physics, how do you address that? "Git gud?"

By the way, the wishlist thread is entirely relevant in the early days of GT7 we're in. Since PD is in the mood to accommodate us right now, I think it's a good time to hop in. A link to my post is in my sig, so if you have any cool ideas, load up a post with your druthers and share them.

 

[MrNukki]

It just feels off. I play on a pad (i know blah blah blah) but the wheels feel like they are on a switch and the moment you push the car just a tiny bit over the limit it wants to kill you. Frustrating because I like the physics more than sport but this one issue with the physics is keeping me from fully enjoying the experience. I don't want the physics dumbed down but I don't want it to be hard just for the sake of being hard as I know its not this hard irl.

Same here, almost every car loves to spin out for literally no reason. I get anxious whenever I go through a corner at a decent speed, because if you so much as turn even slightly when accelerating, you spin out and might as well restart.

 

[RobikV3]

Exactly same experience here, maybe im just bad at driving but some cars feel way too tailhappy, just drove a Testa Rossa slightly tuned to 440hp and on race softs and it comes out sliding out of every corner

Didnt have that much trouble controlling cars in GT Sport, most of the time i drove with TCS on 1, here i find myself driving on 3 and the cars are sliding out of the corners

 

[Johnnn]

Exactly same experience here, maybe im just bad at driving but some cars feel way too tailhappy, just drove a Testa Rossa slightly tuned to 440hp and on race softs and it comes out sliding out of every corner

Didnt have that much trouble controlling cars in GT Sport, most of the time i drove with TCS on 1, here i find myself driving on 3 and the cars are sliding out of the corners

It's not your style for sure. I always like stock cars. They should be OK, right? GT7 has mostly sport versions, not normal ones. And some are very hard to control which is not much probable. I can imagine bad tuned car but not stock ones.

On the other hand, Xbow with SS can do amazing turning like tires are really tires but still with some unexpected slides during cornering. But it's very possible to balance light slide on rear, front or both. Very cool. There is good physics somewhere.

 

[graesand]

Well, but they do kind of go hand in hand. When a car is exhibiting troublesome behavior, which in many cases is due to the somewhat iffy physics, how do you address that? "Git gud?"

By the way, the wishlist thread is entirely relevant in the early days of GT7 we're in. Since PD is in the mood to accommodate us right now, I think it's a good time to hop in. A link to my post is in my sig, so if you have any cool ideas, load up a post with your druthers and share them.

Yeah they go hand in hand, but theres obviously very worrying behaviour in stock cars not related to setups, which would be the point of discussion... Dude im not about git gud. =)

Theres a thread for setups.

 

[Colonel_BMW]

This is great analysis. I've read comments that widebodies, wide tyres, rim size all affect the performance. So I think it's plausible that PD have gone the extra mile and included the differences in rim stiffness, weights or even the aerodynamic properties. I'd also be curious if they show up in the decimals of the PP rating

I swear I put a widebody and wider wheels on a car (can't remember which) and the PP went up by 5

 

[MrMattAdz]

Yeah they go hand in hand, but theres obviously very worrying behaviour in stock cars not related to setups, which would be the point of discussion... Dude im not about git gud. =)

Theres a thread for setups.

But I think that's the point. Impossible to talk about physics without context about the setup. And setups are there to try and manipulate the physics. There's a lot of crossover between the two topics.

Custom wheels for example shouldn't make a difference to handling Vs stock wheels with everything else being the same, but they do. Different rim sizes should make a difference to the cars handling performance, but they don't. I've seen people say that putting the ballast towards the back of the car always results in a better handling car once you adjust the setup, even on cars that already have a lot rear weight bias, but that shouldn't be.

That's all related to the physics of the game, but it's also related to tuning and setups at the same time.

 

[s0cks]

The fact there is even such a heated debate suggests that something is wrong. You simply don't get these sorts of complaints if the physics are roughly on point. The happy rear end is clearly an issue that numerous people have commented on, from casuals, to track enthusiasts, to racing drivers, to pro sim racers, etc...

The issue will sort of semi-resolve itself though, as we get used to it we'll learn to drive in a manner to adapt for it. The placebo being that it feels like it's getting better.

 

[Lion-Face]

Same here, almost every car loves to spin out for literally no reason. I get anxious whenever I go through a corner at a decent speed, because if you so much as turn even slightly when accelerating, you spin out and might as well restart.

Exactly same experience here, maybe im just bad at driving but some cars feel way too tailhappy, just drove a Testa Rossa slightly tuned to 440hp and on race softs and it comes out sliding out of every corner

Didnt have that much trouble controlling cars in GT Sport, most of the time i drove with TCS on 1, here i find myself driving on 3 and the cars are sliding out of the corners

I don't believe the physics are unpredictable. I believe there has always been a consistency to the physics in the GT Games, whether they are correct or not is up for debate, however I find that they always did the same thing in the same situation and there was a reason for it.

Are you finding similar corners for your mishaps or when the cars get tail happy? At low speed, the power of the cars can easily overcome the grip of the tires so you have to be more measured on acceleration and turning, the harder you accelerate you have to really dial back the steering lock or the rear will step out as you are exceeding the grip available to you. This is a marked difference to previous GT games where you could really punch it out of the corners and have little worry about the rear end stepping out.

If your finding the car is stepping out at high speed, this is often due to a lack of rear downforce. As a car gets faster, it generally creates more lift, which is fine in a straight line, but you try to take a corner at high speed, the rear tires now have less force acting on them, therefore they step out. You will either need to back off the accelerator so your not exceeding the tires grip as it tries to turn, or you modify your car to generate more rear downforce, a wing, setup changes etc. This is also different to previous GT games where you would have little trouble in holding high speed corners flat out with your biggest worry coming from a build up of understeer.

Whether this is correct behaviour or not I cannot answer that. I'm just trying to give a bit of reasoning as to why it is happening, and if you understand why something is behaving the way it is, then you will have a better understanding on when to expect it, how to combat it or modify your car to suit. It is why I can throw the Ferrari GTO around Deep Forest as I was in my video on the previous page, I have an understanding of what to expect and why, so the car was quite predictable in it's behaviour, even though that was only my 2nd race in the car and I'm still learning it.

 

[MarrGuitar]

I’m at my wits end with the physics. I spent a good amount of time this evening trying to get my E30 M3 to handle nicely on sports soft tyres, but to no avail. It spins out on very slight corners, even in 3rd gear low revs and low throttle!

I’ve only got moderate power mods on it for it to behave that way; less than 350bhp. It has full weight reduction, race brakes, fully customisable suspension, full LSD etc - basically, all the handling mods.

No matter what I change in the tuning setup, it makes no difference to the problem. Suspension changes only seem to affect the off-power handling of the car. LSD changes seem to do almost nothing. Believe me I’ve tried everything… you name it, I’ve tried it.

I believe the issue lies in the tyre model and here’s why: with a decent suspension/geometry setup I can throw just about any car very aggressively into corners and it has so much grip and loads of stability. But the slightest touch of throttle on the slightest bend and the thing wants to swap ends immediately. You’d think this points to a bad LSD setup but whatever I change on the LSD makes no difference in any way. It’s like the tyres just stop working properly the moment you put power through them. I’ve tested this with a few cars and it’s the exact same thing, including low power cars and high power cars, on sports tyres and on slicks.

For reference I’m a wheel user (I’ve played the game G29 and recently upgraded to Fanatec GT DD), the physics feel odd on both wheels. I use TC1 at the most and no other assists beside ABS weak/default. In my opinion the physics are very very strange in this game, both for road cars and race cars. The race cars just seem to mask the tyre issues with huge amounts of downforce, and using the assists do the same. Like slapping a bandaid on it

 

[graesand]

But I think that's the point. Impossible to talk about physics without context about the setup. And setups are there to try and manipulate the physics. There's a lot of crossover between the two topics.

Custom wheels for example shouldn't make a difference to handling Vs stock wheels with everything else being the same, but they do. Different rim sizes should make a difference to the cars handling performance, but they don't. I've seen people say that putting the ballast towards the back of the car always results in a better handling car once you adjust the setup, even on cars that already have a lot rear weight bias, but that shouldn't be.

That's all related to the physics of the game, but it's also related to tuning and setups at the same time.

This is true, which further enlightens how broken and erratic the physics engine is.

Never mind my comments then, just didnt want this to turn into "how to tune next meta car thread" hehe

 

[graesand]

This guy seems to love the physics...
That awesome intuitive feel GT7 gives you when sliding...

 

[PirovacBoy]

Ok, my Fellow GT Planet Members currently I’m at work and have some time to share my impressions after driving Roundabout 10.000km over the past 14 Days since I got GT7.
I had Holyday so I had more than enough time to observe and ensure my impressions.

Maybe this post will be a bit longer than some of you might expect it to be, but I‘ll try to express my impressions as detailed as possible.

So far, I’m very very pleased with the Driving Physics.
They are very challenging and different to anything I’ve yet discovered in other Racing Games.
To be honest, from my point of View and that’s just my impression but i think that overall, PD has nailed it pretty much spot on in terms of what it „Feels“ like to actually „Steer“ the Car.
The Immersion is very real.
The Physics are very accurate in terms of giving you a Natural Replication of true to life Feeling of Steering a Car.

The whole Physics Simulation in GT7 seems to exceptionally Focus on the Car itself though.
The Natural and intuitive Communication between the Car and the Driver.
On the other Hand, in regard of Track Surface Detail, only the subtle Effects are being simulated.
And here lies the biggest concern which in my opinion makes most of us think that something is off with the GT7 Physics.
Let’s take PC2 for example.
For me personally a perfect Example for a Symbiotic Driving Experience.
Let me explain what I mean.
PC2 simulates both, a mostly accurate Driving Model paired with very detailed Road Surface Details.
Both brought together to ultimately provide the pleasant Sensation and best of both Worlds.
It just feels very very immersive, of course with the correct Settings.

GT7s’ Focus though is only based on the actual Car Feeling.
The Track itself is not integrated appropriately to give us the Perception of being "on the Track“.
The Cars themself are the Main Characters, it’s very obvious.
And that’s obviously a big Handicap for many of us.
We don’t feel “connected“ to the Road.
We never get the impression to actually feel any sort of Connection between the Tires and the Road.
But is that true?!
I don’t think so.
It’s very subtle and almost not noticeable if not paying attention to the small little Details.

Look, I‘m not going to argue that other Games like PC2 or AC to only mention this 2 which I can refer to provide a much better Track Surface/Car Connection and therefore a much more immersed Feeling.
But GT7 just does it the same, though in a completely different way.
Driving the Cars in GT7 is very easy as long as you stay within the Limits.
But once you start to push them, the line becomes veeeery thin.
But it’s the same in real life.
Once you pass the Point of no return, well, the name speaks for itself I think.
Game over.
And that Point of no return can thankfully be felt somewhat good with the right FFB Settings.
I‘m playing with the GT DD Wheel and I have 0 Problems to feel the Cars‘ Limit itself.
Of course and there are no 2 opinions, for sure it would be much handier to get some sort of more obvious, more pronounced Feedback, a Feedback which we are used to get from other Racing Games but like I said GT7 offers a completely different driving experience.
Maybe I’m wrong I don’t know but to me I think that the Creators intention was purposely to not confuse us with too much “unnecessary Feedback“ (from their point of View).
A Feedback though we all would rather appreciate.
But again, like I said I think that’s not PDs‘ intention.

To sum it up, I think that especially some MR Cars definitely need some tweaks in regard of their Differential Settings( looking at you Ferrari 458 GR3), mostly some MR Cars, but other than that I’ve yet not come across many other Cars that feel undrivable.
Challenging yes, but not completely off.
Again, I’m no Physics Expert or technical Kind of Guy like @Scaff to only mention one who I really respect for his Knowledge, but like I said I think that the approach that PD is forcing us to experience their intention in letting us try to make us believe we actually play “The Real Driving Simulator“ is unique.

Good or Bad, I’m not here to judge either way.
All I’m trying to say is that we just have to accept GT7s Physics the way they are.
I really have no other complaints than with a tad bit more “on the edge“ Feedback, we actually might have a very satisfying Driving Game.

Damn, I think I wrote a bit too much…😂
Have a good one my dear Fellow Virtual Wannabe Racers 😬

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@PirovacBoy Unfortunately there is no FFB on dualsense. While GT Sport was far more forgiving and had lots of understeer (forgiving when turning and accelerating, GT Sport is actually far less forgiving for touching kerbs or looking at the grass the wrong way) the deafening tire squeal made sure you payed attention before pushing too hard.

I turned tire squeal to the max in GT7, still hardly hear it when I'm pushing the tires. I can hear my own Honda Civic's tires better when taking a corner fast-ish. But you adapt, not in a nice way, but you do learn the limits for every corner just by repetition.

Agreed we need a bit more "on the edge" feedback. So often the car just goes without any time to respond.

 

[ruggermole]

I don't believe the physics are unpredictable. I believe there has always been a consistency to the physics in the GT Games, whether they are correct or not is up for debate, however I find that they always did the same thing in the same situation and there was a reason for it.

Are you finding similar corners for your mishaps or when the cars get tail happy? At low speed, the power of the cars can easily overcome the grip of the tires so you have to be more measured on acceleration and turning, the harder you accelerate you have to really dial back the steering lock or the rear will step out as you are exceeding the grip available to you. This is a marked difference to previous GT games where you could really punch it out of the corners and have little worry about the rear end stepping out.

If your finding the car is stepping out at high speed, this is often due to a lack of rear downforce. As a car gets faster, it generally creates more lift, which is fine in a straight line, but you try to take a corner at high speed, the rear tires now have less force acting on them, therefore they step out. You will either need to back off the accelerator so your not exceeding the tires grip as it tries to turn, or you modify your car to generate more rear downforce, a wing, setup changes etc. This is also different to previous GT games where you would have little trouble in holding high speed corners flat out with your biggest worry coming from a build up of understeer.

Whether this is correct behaviour or not I cannot answer that. I'm just trying to give a bit of reasoning as to why it is happening, and if you understand why something is behaving the way it is, then you will have a better understanding on when to expect it, how to combat it or modify your car to suit. It is why I can throw the Ferrari GTO around Deep Forest as I was in my video on the previous page, I have an understanding of what to expect and why, so the car was quite predictable in it's behaviour, even though that was only my 2nd race in the car and I'm still learning it.

sure that's a solution if the only game you play is gt7. But if you are like most people who dabble in sim racing and play across multiple sims it's a pretty big issue and a reason to turn away from a game. GTSport was always the relaxing game compared to iracing or ACC where you have to always be on in order to not lose control. With GT7 however you can spin out at just the slightest over throttle, something that doesn't happen on iracing or ACC. If a game is going to have physics that are much more punishing that games that are universally considered to have better physics, it's a major issue.

 

[extreme car]

This guy seems to love the physics...
That awesome intuitive feel GT7 gives you when sliding...

to be fair he kind of can drift the car properly, he's just frustrated that he couldn't get the 5,300 pts for the gold trophy. you actually need to stick to the racing line while drifting to get more points in drift mode and he's nowhere near the racing line in all of his drift mission challenge video that's why he's not getting the drift points.



here's a video of a guy that's barely doing any angle and got massive point just by sticking to the racing line.

 

[PirovacBoy]

@Sven Jurgens yes I totally agree on the repetition argument.
If you want to explore the limits it’s definitely more of a try and error thing. Though, same goes for us Wheel users.
But it was exactly the same with GTS too.
I remember its early Days, everyone was complaining about how off the “feel of Edge “ has been communicated and the parallels to GT7 are very Deja Vu like.
Than, PD made some tweaks over and over again because of all the bitching and complaining.
Personally, I very much preferred the Beta and Release Physics of GTS.
I wouldn’t have felt the need to change them.
But again, that’s just me personally.
And yes I can agree, I’ve tried GT7 with the Dual Sense too, and I can confirm it’s a totally different Experience.
Basically, it’s two different Games.
Without proper Tire Squeal you‘re doomed 😅

 

[PirovacBoy]

@Lion-Face I know you’re the same Ferrari obsessed Type like me.
My question, have you actually driven the 458 GR3 in GT7, I bet you have.
Tell me what are your initial impressions.
To me it feels even more nervous with its default Differential Settings in GT7.
I religiously drove this Car for the whole GTS Lifespan, but ffs, I can’t enjoy it anymore.
It’s really making me sad and it’s beyond me why PD decided to butcher the 458 even further.
I always appreciated the 458 for its squirrelly Nature. I quickly adapted and fell in love with it.
It was so unique and challenging to drive it in GTS, but in GT7 it’s just too much.
I can’t enjoy it anymore with the current Driving Physics.
It has definitely gone a step too far.
What are your thoughts?
I think it handles pretty much the same except of the problem that now it’s even more snappy.

 

[Lion-Face]

@Lion-Face I know you’re the same Ferrari obsessed Type like me.
My question, have you actually driven the 458 GR3 in GT7, I bet you have.
Tell me what are your initial impressions.

Not yet. I'm only up to the Porsche cup and then spent all my money on the GTO and Testarossa. I've been ignoring the GR3 cars as I haven't had a need for them yet. I'll make that one my priority and come back to you when I do. I guess the big difference for me at the moment is in GT Sport I exclusively drove with the wheel, where GT7 I have been exclusively on the controller. Might give me a reason to plug the wheel back in when I pick it up to give it a run.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Not yet. I'm only up to the Porsche cup and then spent all my money on the GTO and Testarossa. I've been ignoring the GR3 cars as I haven't had a need for them yet. I'll make that one my priority and come back to you when I do. I guess the big difference for me at the moment is in GT Sport I exclusively drove with the wheel, where GT7 I have been exclusively on the controller. Might give me a reason to plug the wheel back in when I pick it up to give it a run.

GTO and Testarossa I bought them too, such great Cars to drive in its stock Version.
Ok, I’m awaiting your Feedback then.
Maybe we can share our thoughts.
I‘m looking forward to your impressions 💪🏻

 

[ScottPuss20]

One of the major issues I have with this game as a controller user is the constant steering sensitivity. I know this sounds strange but think about it - when you use a steering wheel, you have a large range of motion and can therefore adjust how much lock to apply at any given time. You cannot do this with an analogue stick that moves left, right and sometimes down. As a result of this consistent sensitivity, the steering can either feel too heavy or too light, sometimes resulting in weird behaviour that catches me out really easily. If there was a speed sensitivity setting like Assetto Corsa, where in the steering sensitivity is adjusted on the fly based on how fast you travel, I wouldn't struggle soo much. It artificially increases the range of movement to better simulate the feeling of a steering wheel. This is something that must be implemented to further improve the controller experience.

 

[PirovacBoy]

One of the major issues I have with this game as a controller user is the constant steering sensitivity. I know this sounds strange but think about it - when you use a steering wheel, you have a large range of motion and can therefore adjust how much lock to apply at any given time. You cannot do this with an analogue stick that moves left, right and sometimes down. As a result of this consistent sensitivity, the steering can either feel too heavy or too light, sometimes resulting in weird behaviour that catches me out really easily. If there was a speed sensitivity setting like Assetto Corsa, where in the steering sensitivity is adjusted on the fly based on how fast you travel, I wouldn't struggle soo much. It artificially increases the range of movement to better simulate the feeling of a steering wheel. This is something that must be implemented to further improve the controller experience.

There actually is a Speed Sensitivity Setting for Controller.
Its range goes from -2 up to 7.
-2 being the slowest response up to 7 being the quickest inputs response.
You can find them in the Controller Settings Menu 🙂

 

[ScottPuss20]

There actually is a Speed Sensitivity Setting for Controller.
Its range goes from -2 up to 7.
-2 being the slowest response up to 7 being the quickest inputs response.
You can find them in the Controller Settings Menu 🙂

All that does is adjust the steer speed. I'm saying that there should be a setting that allows you to change how much the steer speed varies based on how fast you're going.

 

[PirovacBoy]

All that does is adjust the steer speed. I'm saying that there should be a setting that allows you to change how much the steer speed varies based on how fast you're going.

Ah ok, now I got it 😅
Well, actually I don’t believe we’re going to get such a Setting though.
Unfortunately, I think your going to have to live with the way it is.

 

[FPV MIC]

One of the major issues I have with this game as a controller user is the constant steering sensitivity. I know this sounds strange but think about it - when you use a steering wheel, you have a large range of motion and can therefore adjust how much lock to apply at any given time. You cannot do this with an analogue stick that moves left, right and sometimes down. As a result of this consistent sensitivity, the steering can either feel too heavy or too light, sometimes resulting in weird behaviour that catches me out really easily. If there was a speed sensitivity setting like Assetto Corsa, where in the steering sensitivity is adjusted on the fly based on how fast you travel, I wouldn't struggle soo much. It artificially increases the range of movement to better simulate the feeling of a steering wheel. This is something that must be implemented to further improve the controller experience.

I'm not sure it's the controller settings that's catching you out as wheel users are having issues at the moment too. And I'm also not sure following in the direction of one of the worst games for controller implementation is the right way to go for one of the games with some of the best implementation. Perhaps you're just used to AC's different/unusual ways now? It happens to me when I focus solely on one game.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'm not sure it's the controller settings that's catching you out as wheel users are having issues at the moment too. And I'm also not sure following in the direction of one of the worst games for controller implementation is the right way to go for one of the games with some of the best implementation. Perhaps you're just used to AC's different/unusual ways now? It happens to me when I focus solely on one game.

What? The controller implementation in AC and ACC is pretty good. It works really well for me but it does take a bit of time to figure it out. My left arm doesn't get sore when I play ACC, unlike GT7 which can cause a bit of discomfort. In fact it's been soo severe at times that I've had to stop playing for 20 minutes or so.

 

[FPV MIC]

What? The controller implementation in AC and ACC is pretty good. It works really well for me but it does take a bit of time to figure it out. My left arm doesn't get sore when I play ACC, unlike GT7 which can cause a bit of discomfort. In fact it's been soo severe at times that I've had to stop playing for 20 minutes or so.

ACC is okay but AC was crap, and well known for it. It's something you can get used to, and you can find something that's useable with a lot of experimentation but it wasn't designed for controller use so it's far from optimal. GT games have always been praised for there controller implementation and this game is as good as any of the others, possibly better with the DualSense.... once the weird tyre physics at high speeds is fixed.

I have no idea why you're getting sore but I'd imagine it could be because you're just not used to the physics yet so you're not as relaxed as you are with the other games.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I have no idea why you're getting sore but I'd imagine it could be because you're just not used to the physics yet so you're not as relaxed as you are with the other games.

Well I do know. I have to push the stick harder for longer than I do in ACC.

 

[FPV MIC]

Well I do know. I have to push the stick harder for longer than I do in ACC.

Okay, sorry to hear that. I don't know much about your disability but is GT7 so different to GT Sport? It seems very similar to me and I don't recall you having troubles with that game (not that I'd really know), which is what lead me to consider that it might be a familiarity thing. What about AC? That's the game you first brought up so that's the game I was first replying about.