Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[ruggermole]

Feedback is definitely improved. During my laps with roadster in the rain I could feel when I was losing the grip and was able to save a couple. Overall I think the link between input and car was improved. I don’t think it was anything on the physics end.

 

[Sage Ages]

Daytona feels weird.

 

[Johnnn]

I was curious if they had a work-in-progress physics build and slapped that in. Of course they would never say, but for such an early patch, a band-aid fix like hidden assists make as much sense as anything. Right now, I'm just happy to feel like I know what I'm doing.

One more thing. I was surprised in the last Menu Book championship on the Nurb how bumpy the track was with my McLaren. I don't remember sections of it having such a rough surface.

That's my biggest problem. Physics is not easy stuff and you don't tune it with few parameters like fans need. You used real life data to simulate everything and worked on it for years. Then changes we saw feels a bit unexpected. It's just not possible to tune physics on week basis. It's nothing like darker night. Maybe they really have prepared something ahead of time.

Improved aids make sense too because almost nobody cares. Most people don't know what they play. And it's easy to hide.

I never felt the car fully and didn't know where is the right limit. Now I know I can push a bit more but it doesn't feel like I found the limit but rather like I can push more because somebody helps me. Maybe just feeling because of overall weird physics. In any sim I know what I can do to push the car more. I don't feel it here at all but after 1.09 I can push more and it's easier to recover. Lose of grip is more gradual for sure but maybe they just enabled harder stabilization stuff on a gamepad.

It's a mystery.

I don’t feel as their assist maybe just better feedback and grip limits.. I can feel a lot more within the cars especially the rear… the smoother you are with your throttle inputs the better you can feel the rear and limits. Had another high lap test day tonight the cars are feeling really good!

That would be better. Or wheel is different now.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Has anyone tried the Mangusta yet?

I bought and tuned it with the apology million, but not having any luck driving it. Steering locks in place while braking, with or without ABS and I checked to make sure CSA is really still off. I start braking, push the stick full in one direction and nothing happens until the car is down to 40 kph. You can't turn the wheel at all. It's nearly impossible to brake for a lot of corners on N24 since you approach them in a bend. Brake, lift, correct steering, brake again, go wide.

It isn't very controllable at speed in a straight line either, and you need to be very slow on corner exit to avoid oversteer. I added spoilers and set the down force to max to help with grip yet it still spins out very easily. I thought the Mark IV was a handful, this one is just painful to drive.

Anyway, any clue how to fix the steering wheel getting locked under braking. Doesn't matter whether it's sraight when you start braking, it just locks in place where it was when applying brakes.

Just tried it on Deep Forest.

It's comically bad. I hope all the classic cars' physics aren't like this.

EDIT: Just tried a compound softer (comfort soft) on the rear while keeping the fronts stock and it's improved it a lot.

 

[RacingFan1]

Has anyone tried the Mangusta yet?

I bought and tuned it with the apology million, but not having any luck driving it. Steering locks in place while braking, with or without ABS and I checked to make sure CSA is really still off. I start braking, push the stick full in one direction and nothing happens until the car is down to 40 kph. You can't turn the wheel at all. It's nearly impossible to brake for a lot of corners on N24 since you approach them in a bend. Brake, lift, correct steering, brake again, go wide.

It isn't very controllable at speed in a straight line either, and you need to be very slow on corner exit to avoid oversteer. I added spoilers and set the down force to max to help with grip yet it still spins out very easily. I thought the Mark IV was a handful, this one is just painful to drive.

Anyway, any clue how to fix the steering wheel getting locked under braking. Doesn't matter whether it's sraight when you start braking, it just locks in place where it was when applying brakes.

Just tried it on Deep Forest.

It's comically bad. I hope all the classic cars' physics aren't like this.

EDIT: Just tried a compound softer (comfort soft) on the rear while keeping the fronts stock and it's improved it a lot.

After almost an hour trying settings, I made it driveable. Tough cookie to "tame"...

This car, being stock, It's a piece of crap with bad brakes, bad setup, bad gearbox, and worst of all, very low grip tires for such a powerful and torquey mid engine sports car... Makes no sense really. The engine being a "brute" american V8 doesnt help either, as you barely touch the throttle in 1st gear and spin very likely.

Here are my settings and my upgrades, that I needed to buy.

Tires:
-Front: Sports medium
-Rear: Sports soft (yeah, not the ideal thing, but the car feels so much better)

Suspension (totally customizable)
Height 150 - 110
Anti roll bars 10 - 4
Damping comp. 40 - 20
Damping ext. 40 - 20
Natural freq. 2.90 - 1.75
Camber 0.0 - 2.2
Toe -0.50 - +0.50

Differential (totally customizable)
0 - 5
0 - 5
0 - 30

Gearbox (totally customizable)
Top speed 270 kph
1st gear 125 kph
2nd gear 150 kph

Brake bias -2

And that's it - it's got stock power and stock weight.


Not tried:
-Ballast at front (adding weight is not the ideal thing for tuning but it would help stability)
-Rear wing (that would surely help but it would spoil car's design)


Feel free to try it, the car drives okay with this.

 

[Tenacious D]

Lose of grip is more gradual for sure but maybe they just enabled harder stabilization stuff on a gamepad.

I keep forgetting that you're a pad user. There is a great divide between you guys and us wheel monkeys. In the case of pad drivers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if more assisting was going on. And driving with a pad isn't nearly as precise as with a wheel, so I'd tell my team to make it work so kids wouldn't be lost trying to race with even a Miata.

-Rear wing (that would surely help but it would spoil car's design)

Dude, race car, race car.

I bought two in order to make one a racer, so I could have one of these little devils stock, save for sport softs. Anything to help me grip the road better.

 

[meekrab]

Took the Radical out for a spin against the group 4 cars at Brands Hatch last night, loved it, except for the stupid steering wheel shake when you understeer. Sounds like my G29 is trying to mix a martini.

 

[PorscheHD]

Is it me or is it very hard to keep RR / FR cars on the road? (Fast ones) first time i put asm and tcs on in a GT Game (end the first months of GT Sport also if i remember)

 

[Johnnn]

I keep forgetting that you're a pad user. There is a great divide between you guys and us wheel monkeys. In the case of pad drivers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if more assisting was going on. And driving with a pad isn't nearly as precise as with a wheel, so I'd tell my team to make it work so kids wouldn't be lost trying to race with even a Miata.

Exactly. Good thing is GT7 is among the best assisted games. I still have some good feeling from the physics even I don't feel the limit. Fastest Clio is amazing experience. I probably won't use race cars because magic of GT to me is in slow cars. We will see, maybe they will improve physics and unlock more cars to play with.

 

[ederss7]

I can feel the same foibles in GT7 that were present in the PS3 era, and before. Granted I've done precious few miles so far. But my personal approach still works in the new game.

Spoiler: The ABS masks chassis dynamics

Disabling ABS in GT5 Prologue was a revelation to me and I'll never go back. GT7 is no different.

This does mean you'll need to know what you're doing with brake balance settings and make sure you get the brake balance controller and test settings for every car. The defaults are all over the place; the NA Miata needed +5 to brake effectively, a Clio RS is about right at 0. As usual, as before, the setting is not fine grained enough and you will need to settle for slightly too much understeer for stability. If you find the car locking up the front far too easily, move the bias in the positive direction until the rear tries to break away in a long breaking zone, then knock it back and retest.

GT's ABS is solely responsible for its understeer reputation, and although improved the system still creates issues today. Although weight transfer and suspension damping is greatly improved in recent times, the understeer bias still remains. This is because the ABS applies exactly as much braking power to each wheel according to how much grip it has (affected by load transfer). Naturally proper trail braking limits this effect, but if people are applying hard braking and turning, the car will not turn and will not recover. The tyres with the most grip are the outside tyres and slowing them down more than the inside tyres makes the car turn out of the corner you're trying to turn into.

This also contributes to the snap oversteer on corner entry. If the car is understeering under braking and you release the brake, the car suddenly is able to turn in much faster and it's likely to break loose in the rear.

ABS set to "weak" limits the difference between braking force applied to each wheel, but it still tries to turn the car out of the corner. The setting should really be a yaw assist, sacrificing peak deceleration for front end "bite" during trail braking manoeuvres, like proper motorsport ABS (which is why it was often banned in motorsport). Falling that it should be a dumb system that brakes left and right sides equally, regardless.

I noticed exactly that when doing the S-10. I even improved my time when I turned off ABS, which was quite surprising to me.

 

[Sage Ages]

Is it me or is it very hard to keep RR / FR cars on the road? (Fast ones) first time i put asm and tcs on in a GT Game (end the first months of GT Sport also if i remember)

I honestly find RR cars to be easier to control than FR.

 

[newb1017]

I started playing with GTS, and put in over 1000 races and was a lowish B (20-25K) driver. Despite the time I put into GTS, I was not very good, and I still found many of the cars difficult to handle, even with assists. Like anyone else, I had/have favourite tracks and classes of cars, but if I skipped a race it was almost always due to my inability to be competitive at the B level with “any” of the possible car choices.

So, the last thing I wanted to hear was that the physics in GT7 made driving harder. Of all the faults with GTS, I don’t think any of the issues were that the cars were “too easy” to drive. If GT7 (either intentionally or unintentionally) made the cars harder to drive, I won’t be on GT7 unless the handling approximates that of GTS. I don’t care if the handling is “different”; I do care if it is “harder”.

I was looking for a new and exciting version of GT with the launch of GT7. I was not looking to have to become a better driver in GT7 in order to get the same enjoyment out of the game. Some might argue that I will still be a B driver in GT7, but that is not the point. If I can’t control the cars it won’t be any fun.

And all I want is fun. I am just a regular hack who wants to enjoy the game. GT7 seems like it was not made for people like me....

 

[Johnnn]

If you enable assists, the game is easy. I play without any assists and you sometimes lose grip very unexpectedly. Aids could solve it very much.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Has anyone tried the Mangusta yet?

I bought and tuned it with the apology million, but not having any luck driving it. Steering locks in place while braking, with or without ABS and I checked to make sure CSA is really still off. I start braking, push the stick full in one direction and nothing happens until the car is down to 40 kph. You can't turn the wheel at all. It's nearly impossible to brake for a lot of corners on N24 since you approach them in a bend. Brake, lift, correct steering, brake again, go wide.

It isn't very controllable at speed in a straight line either, and you need to be very slow on corner exit to avoid oversteer. I added spoilers and set the down force to max to help with grip yet it still spins out very easily. I thought the Mark IV was a handful, this one is just painful to drive.

Anyway, any clue how to fix the steering wheel getting locked under braking. Doesn't matter whether it's sraight when you start braking, it just locks in place where it was when applying brakes.

That's the built-in assist in gamepads. It won't let you steer beyond the optimal slip angle. It was like this in GTS as well.
Especially GT7 would be absolutely broken without this assist.

In a car with crap handling, you better brake in a straight line. A gamepad won't let you do anything else, and a wheel will. However, again, good FFB will let you know that you're about to die if you keep steering while braking before you actually spin off. The wheel becomes stupid heavy, and you're stupid if you push through that heaviness.

People with wheels with poor FFB or perception of it experience exactly this - "gamepad without built-in steering assist".

 

[BigSarj]

Sometimes I use a controller to do my daily workout before putting on another game and I absolutely must use TCS to drive with it. But I'm very rusty using a controller.

With the wheel, I don't really feel the need to use TCS and when I do, it doesn't improve my times. The only road car I've tried with a wheel since 1.09 was the stock 300ZX TT and it was fine.

 

[Johnnn]

Sometimes I use a controller to do my daily workout before putting on another game and I absolutely must use TCS to drive with it. But I'm very rusty using a controller.

With the wheel, I don't really feel the need to use TCS and when I do, it doesn't improve my times. The only road car I've tried with a wheel since 1.09 was the stock 300ZX TT and it was fine.

GT7 is very hard without aids on a gamepad.

 

[AlexWilmot]

GT7 is very hard without aids on a gamepad.

Any particular races that stand out? Would like to give them a go

 

[Johnnn]

Any particular races that stand out? Would like to give them a go

The physics is rather good but a bit unreal. So it's hard to drive anything because it's not like it should be. Much fun. I have it as a fun game with very interesting physics which is much harder and better than GTS. For serious racing, I have other games. I even play Forza Horizon and this is way better experience. And Monza during sunset is unbeatable.

Overall very hard to drive any car without aids. After 1.09 it feels easier.

 

[DPereira_2909]

Nah there is definitely more grip with braking and acceleration… I do this Monza race every morning and I never pass all the cars before the 1st lap is over… don’t get me wrong you can still spin out but I feel more confident with TCS off… I’m driving my FXX K.

Off topic but can you tell me if you can modify it into the FXXK Evo package in GT Auto? Was on the fence, and I love the look of the Evo, the normal one not so much

 

[JDMKING13]

Off topic but can you tell me if you can modify it into the FXXK Evo package in GT Auto? Was on the fence, and I love the look of the Evo, the normal one not so much

It has no customizable parts unfortunately

 

[Sven Jurgens]

That's the built-in assist in gamepads. It won't let you steer beyond the optimal slip angle. It was like this in GTS as well.
Especially GT7 would be absolutely broken without this assist.

In a car with crap handling, you better brake in a straight line. A gamepad won't let you do anything else, and a wheel will. However, again, good FFB will let you know that you're about to die if you keep steering while braking before you actually spin off. The wheel becomes stupid heavy, and you're stupid if you push through that heaviness.

People with wheels with poor FFB or perception of it experience exactly this - "gamepad without built-in steering assist".

It won't let me steer at all though, not even back to center. The steering dot simply locks in place where ever it happened to be at when pressing the brakes. It's the only car so far that does this, any others I tried let you spin out under braking as much as you like.

And all it does is make me spin out when the dot unlocks since the analog stick and the dot are no longer in sync, so it snaps to wherever the stick is at once it unlocks.

I know about it locking to a max steering angle, and the steering input is 'filtered' on a pad, as in it reacts at a certain speed (determined by sensitivity setting) however this is very different. It won't even move 1 degree, completely locked in an on/off lock behavior. Pump the brakes while steering and it stops moving on/off binary response.

Oh well, sell the car when PD allows it. No fun to drive on a pad. The Mark IV lets me steer under braking, tricky one as well. Only accelerate in straight lines, very easy to over steer when accelerating in any bend.

 

[wheelhp]

Hmm... this deserves further study.

I just woke up a bit ago to find, along with some Earl Grey, that there is happy news. I don't doubt that there will be physics / tire modeling improvements. I just hope it doesn't take a year for it to impress the die hards. The day we get a few "Hey, this is pretty okay" posts is the day I can think less of firing up those PC sims. Which are still great and all, but as @s0cks says, this game is great with modifying and tuning cars. With just a bit more TLC to the physics code, it could be top notch.

On that point, I think the physics team could use some fresh blood to shake things up a bit. If I recall rightly, Live For Speed was a project made by three college students, and the car behavior was amazing so it can be done.

One quick edit: PD needs to make some race modded and tuners of some of these sports cars. Near all of them have been modified into racing machines, and tuners offered. But they also need to tweak their stock tunes for all the race cars and tuners. As Praiano says, they need to hire a tuner to make their preset sheets. It almost seems like most of the cars, even racers, are made to encourage us to tweak them to get more performance and handling out them.

Live For Speed is a bit of a miracle, I'd love if Pd could pull off anything like that but I doubt it!

The closest we have to LFS on console is CarX drift racing online, but still that game is nowhere near as realistic as LFS. To crudely put it I'd liken Carx to a 7/10 simulation of cars. LFS is 10/10

 

[Johnnn]

Live For Speed is a bit of a miracle, I'd love if Pd could pull off anything like that but I doubt it!

The closest we have to LFS on console is CarX drift racing online, but still that game is nowhere near as realistic as LFS. To crudely put it I'd liken Carx to a 7/10 simulation of cars. LFS is 10/10

Don't forget for complete trash named PS4. This game runs there. The console was very weak even at release date. It's amazing GT7 runs there.

 

[graesand]

Don't forget for complete trash named PS4. This game runs there. The console was very weak even at release date. It's amazing GT7 runs there.

But lfs can run on a 15 year old pc, maybe even older lol.... Physics are not nearly as taxing as graphics.

Richard burns rally was released in 2006 if im not mistaken. The physics are great, graphics not so much.

 

[wheelhp]

Don't forget for complete trash named PS4. This game runs there. The console was very weak even at release date. It's amazing GT7 runs there.

Except you're forgetting LFS ran on weak "gaming" capable computers

 

[Johnnn]

I don't think GT is comparable with bare-bone LFS. CPU just could be a reason. I don't believe they are not able to do better physics. It's not easy but we are talking about $100+ million game.

 

[Lion-Face]

Just tried it on Deep Forest.

It's comically bad. I hope all the classic cars' physics aren't like this.

EDIT: Just tried a compound softer (comfort soft) on the rear while keeping the fronts stock and it's improved it a lot.

I have only had a quarter lap around Nurburgring with the Mangusta, I thought it was a blast to drive! Nothing serious in terms of driving lap times yet, but a lot of character. I don't see where the complaints for it are coming from. I was expecting much worse the way Sven was describing things.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I have only had a quarter lap around Nurburgring with the Mangusta, I thought it was a blast to drive! Nothing serious in terms of driving lap times yet, but a lot of character. I don't see where the complaints for it are coming from. I was expecting much worse the way Sven was describing things.

Maybe I should try it again, patch 1.09 could have changed something. I couldn't get past Dunlop-Kehre. Start braking in the slight left and the wheel locks in place, keeps turning the car left right off the track. Lift off the brakes to correct, brake again, go into the sand.

It is different now. Steering still locks, but you can move it back to center, just nut outwards under braking.
My first lap in the Mangusta, tricky thing, probably because I messed it up with tuning parts

I don't feel when it starts to go, it just goes. But if you stay under the limit it's fine. The problem is, how do you find the limit without spinning out immediately

 

[GTboyz]

Any particular races that stand out? Would like to give them a go

For me, the final championship. I had to turn on TCS to 1, and I couldn't even get 1st place on 3 of the tracks.

 

[extreme car]

Maybe I should try it again, patch 1.09 could have changed something. I couldn't get past Dunlop-Kehre. Start braking in the slight left and the wheel locks in place, keeps turning the car left right off the track. Lift off the brakes to correct, brake again, go into the sand.

It is different now. Steering still locks, but you can move it back to center, just nut outwards under braking.
My first lap in the Mangusta, tricky thing, probably because I messed it up with tuning parts

I don't feel when it starts to go, it just goes. But if you stay under the limit it's fine. The problem is, how do you find the limit without spinning out immediately

Ah, I believe the steering lock problem could be due to the wheel hitting the fender of your car because your car is either too low or too much downforce. happened to my r32 skyline and redbull X2019. i fixed the issue in my r32 but couldn't fix it on my redbull because you can't tune the vehicle height and the downforce on that car is ridiculous even on lowest setting.