Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Hobson]

I’m getting the same lap times so unless some of you saying it’s gotten better have evidence to back it up, I’m sticking to my usual model:

new update placebo + memory-muscle-learn over time = a feeling that physics have gotten better

It’s kinda a let down there’s no mention about physics in the blog post road map.

Yeah I did the exact same test on Nurb this morning, and ended up getting the similar times from before the update too.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Has anyone tried the Mangusta yet?

I bought and tuned it with the apology million, but not having any luck driving it. Steering locks in place while braking, with or without ABS and I checked to make sure CSA is really still off. I start braking, push the stick full in one direction and nothing happens until the car is down to 40 kph. You can't turn the wheel at all. It's nearly impossible to brake for a lot of corners on N24 since you approach them in a bend. Brake, lift, correct steering, brake again, go wide.

It isn't very controllable at speed in a straight line either, and you need to be very slow on corner exit to avoid oversteer. I added spoilers and set the down force to max to help with grip yet it still spins out very easily. I thought the Mark IV was a handful, this one is just painful to drive.

Anyway, any clue how to fix the steering wheel getting locked under braking. Doesn't matter whether it's sraight when you start braking, it just locks in place where it was when applying brakes.

 

[ruggermole]

So I tried to clear out some missions while working so I used controller. If you have a ps5 give it a go. The physics feel mad different. I was able to save so many slides I’m the one Ferrari challenge on controller when I’d have no clue what to do on wheel. I think the game is definitely calibrated for the analog stick.

 

[graesand]

Nah its the same.

Also, today i got some really wierd ffb effects.
I tried to calibrate my brain to really try and provoke and save one of those snappy slides, and the ffb went really strong whilst countersteering lol. It was in a evo V with some tuning, but ive tried and had the same happen in other cars. Its like the ffb loads up and its practically unsaveable.

Ive played alot of DR2 and some RBR, theres alot of countersteering going on in those games and ive never had the same feeling there.

Also noted that kerbs dont give ffb, just sound.

 

[Batschisane52]

Has anyone tried the Mangusta yet?

I bought and tuned it with the apology million, but not having any luck driving it. Steering locks in place while braking, with or without ABS and I checked to make sure CSA is really still off. I start braking, push the stick full in one direction and nothing happens until the car is down to 40 kph. You can't turn the wheel at all. It's nearly impossible to brake for a lot of corners on N24 since you approach them in a bend. Brake, lift, correct steering, brake again, go wide.

It isn't very controllable at speed in a straight line either, and you need to be very slow on corner exit to avoid oversteer. I added spoilers and set the down force to max to help with grip yet it still spins out very easily. I thought the Mark IV was a handful, this one is just painful to drive.

Anyway, any clue how to fix the steering wheel getting locked under braking. Doesn't matter whether it's sraight when you start braking, it just locks in place where it was when applying brakes.

I set the stability to 6/7 and the racing differential to 15/40/25 and breakbalance to -1...with that I got rid of the oversteer and was able to exit the corners real quick and it stayed controlable on the straights...couldn't get rid of that steering lock completely-I drive it very differntly from others cars, I break earlier and use different racing lines through certain corners, but I got used to it after spending some time with it the last two days...it's one of my favorite cars so far in GT7 because it behaves and reacts so differnt...it is definitly hard to drive, but it gives you lots of joy once you find a way to handle that beast...

 

[Dunderbolt]

Could someone do a test for me? Because I had my times increase by literally 1.247 seconds on willow springs. And I wanna see if this is the same for anyone else.

Take a car with docile over steering characteristics. Then go to a track you test on of your choice. First: do your normal "full grip run"

THEN

Take corners where you begin to oversteer and you have to catch yourself. Throughout that whole corner. Do that.

I noticed that on my runs, where I have to catch myself (not snapping into oversteer on the other side) I'm literally getting MORE GRIP and FASTER TIMES for my car see-sawing back and forth.

 

[JDMKING13]

Could someone do a test for me? Because I had my times increase by literally 1.247 seconds on willow springs. And I wanna see if this is the same for anyone else.

Take a car with docile over steering characteristics. Then go to a track you test on of your choice. First: do your normal "full grip run"

THEN

Take corners where you begin to oversteer and you have to catch yourself. Throughout that whole corner. Do that.

I noticed that on my runs, where I have to catch myself (not snapping into oversteer on the other side) I'm literally getting MORE GRIP and FASTER TIMES for my car see-sawing back and forth.

You would be correct the cars have more grip and feedback in the rear.. we just did 40+ laps at Laguna and 15+ At Daytona.. for our Michelin GT4 series, I love how the cars feel now, and you can still spin out if your not smooth but also catch the car better.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Whatever you're describing has changed, I and others have experienced from the beginning, at least with the 6-8 Nm wheels. There's no problem catching slides, unless you don't feel (!) where the limit is because of a weak wheel, turn the wheel too much and then apply throttle - "snap oversteer". If you feel where the limit is, stay within limits, apply throttle and lose the rear, it's fully controllable - just don't twist the wheel too much. In real life, it would feel intuitively wrong to twist the wheel as much as many do in GT7 - all senses would shout at you that you're in trouble and need to be gentle.
In GTS, everything was understeery in comparison.

I tweak my FFB strength depending on the car I'm driving, from 60-100%. Some cars are nearly impossible to drive fast consistently with 60%, while some race cars or tuned cars have so much grip at speed and understeer that FFB hardly matters and 100% FFB strength just becomes heavy and annoying.

With that said, once again, I welcome improvements in FFB during high slip angle, where you drive race cars in corners. The FFB is almost completely numb there. It goes from good FFB (grip) to numb and heavy (high slip angle) to vibration (slide). That slip angle and slide phase is very cartoonish.

 

[Johnnn]

So I tried to clear out some missions while working so I used controller. If you have a ps5 give it a go. The physics feel mad different. I was able to save so many slides I’m the one Ferrari challenge on controller when I’d have no clue what to do on wheel. I think the game is definitely calibrated for the analog stick.

Yes, it's a bit problematic. When you start to slide, game starts to help. It was always in any GT and felt very arcadey. Good thing is normal physics is finally much better. GT was always rather easy game for gamepads and that's the reason. If somebody says GT has amazing gamepad support he says he likes very assisted gamepad steering. Overall, I am very satisfied with this GT and GTS was terrible (not so simmy).

You would be correct the cars have more grip and feedback in the rear.. we just did 40+ laps at Laguna and 15+ At Daytona.. I love how the cars feel now, and you can still spin out if your not smooth but also catch the car better.

So I am not the only one? It really felt different.

 

[Td04]

I don't feel any difference with 1.08 patch.

 

[Klik]

Even though im huge GT fan, every time i play AC on PS5(road cars/gt3) it just feels so much better and you know exactly what is car doing even with **** G29. On PC is probably even better.

 

[Griffith500]

I can feel the same foibles in GT7 that were present in the PS3 era, and before. Granted I've done precious few miles so far. But my personal approach still works in the new game.

Spoiler: The ABS masks chassis dynamics

Disabling ABS in GT5 Prologue was a revelation to me and I'll never go back. GT7 is no different.

This does mean you'll need to know what you're doing with brake balance settings and make sure you get the brake balance controller and test settings for every car. The defaults are all over the place; the NA Miata needed +5 to brake effectively, a Clio RS is about right at 0. As usual, as before, the setting is not fine grained enough and you will need to settle for slightly too much understeer for stability. If you find the car locking up the front far too easily, move the bias in the positive direction until the rear tries to break away in a long breaking zone, then knock it back and retest.

GT's ABS is solely responsible for its understeer reputation, and although improved the system still creates issues today. Although weight transfer and suspension damping is greatly improved in recent times, the understeer bias still remains. This is because the ABS applies exactly as much braking power to each wheel according to how much grip it has (affected by load transfer). Naturally proper trail braking limits this effect, but if people are applying hard braking and turning, the car will not turn and will not recover. The tyres with the most grip are the outside tyres and slowing them down more than the inside tyres makes the car turn out of the corner you're trying to turn into.

This also contributes to the snap oversteer on corner entry. If the car is understeering under braking and you release the brake, the car suddenly is able to turn in much faster and it's likely to break loose in the rear.

ABS set to "weak" limits the difference between braking force applied to each wheel, but it still tries to turn the car out of the corner. The setting should really be a yaw assist, sacrificing peak deceleration for front end "bite" during trail braking manoeuvres, like proper motorsport ABS (which is why it was often banned in motorsport). Falling that it should be a dumb system that brakes left and right sides equally, regardless.

Spoiler: Tyres lose grip too easily and can't recover

The tyre model has long been flawed, it seems to still struggle to mix longitudinal slip with lateral slip angle. Additionally the grip fall off is too severe and it's very hard to get back over the knee once traction is broken, giving that ice feeling.

It also makes a poorly set brake balance with ABS off undriveable and frustrating, because lock ups are almost impossible to recover from in that case.

Spoiler: Drivetrains have too much inertia

There is still far too much inertia in the drivetrain, which means that a spinning driven wheel doesn't regrip once power is removed, it takes time to slow down even when spinning against the road surface. The grip fall off of the tyre model makes this worse.

It also renders small cars utterly tedious, as they should be nippy but the slow revving nature of the model means they're ultimately uninteresting. GT has historically had issues with stability when engines get too responsive or when real world data is not available, so this seems like an attempt to avoid that instability.

Spoiler: Inappropriate default settings

The default settings are an issue too, and I think the reason that GT7 doesn't feel as planted as Sport is because of the additional tuning parts. The drivetrain, suspension and tyre models have to cope with a much wider range of usage and so it's much harder to tune for both feel and stability.

The default LSD settings are an obvious brute force whitewash and many cars suffer for it. My approach is to get the fully adjustable item, set it to as open as it can be made (all 5s) and add acceleration until the inside wheel stops spinning up. If you go too far the car becomes unstable in acceleration and creates snap oversteer. If you're having trouble on a trailing throttle, add decel. Then if the car is upset by throttle modulation on long high speed corners, try adjusting the preload. You usually don't need high numbers at all.

I should be clear I don't much care about absolute pace, I just like to enjoy each car for what it is.

 

[Td04]

Even though im huge GT fan, every time i play AC on PS5(road cars/gt3) it just feels so much better and you know exactly what is car doing even with **** G29. On PC is probably even better.

I feel exactly the opposite.
I am not a fast player,but i was trying to attempt to Real life time lap at Laguna seca with a stock m3 E92 ( 1.42-1.43).
On Ac, even if It Is Better when the car want to spin, i did as best lap 1.45.7 but i am not really consistent and i feel i Just get my lucky lap.
On gt7 i did 1.44.0 but i feel where i was losing time. The only department where i feel worst gt is the exaggerrated sudden oversteer (It seems scripted,as if You get It when You lock a specific steering degree and some specific amount of throttle).
In all other regards as braking,weight transfer,find the good line for a corner, throttle control and understand how behave (overall) the car i am driving, i feel Better on gt7. And i Guess this Is why i get better times on it with all cars i tested in both games: m3, Skyline r34, Ferrari 458, Abarth 500, Toyota Levin and Toyota GT 86 (Always stock with aids off on both games,except weak abs).

I am using a g923 wheel

 

[Johnnn]

The only department where i feel worst gt is the exaggerrated sudden oversteer (It seems scripted,as if You get It when You lock a specific steering degree and some specific amount of throttle).

Exactly my feeling before 1.09. It wasn't tight to the physics model at all. Just you meet the criteria and that means losing grip.

 

[dabz343]

I can feel the same foibles in GT7 that were present in the PS3 era, and before. Granted I've done precious few miles so far. But my personal approach still works in the new game.

Spoiler: The ABS masks chassis dynamics

Disabling ABS in GT5 Prologue was a revelation to me and I'll never go back. GT7 is no different.

This does mean you'll need to know what you're doing with brake balance settings and make sure you get the brake balance controller and test settings for every car. The defaults are all over the place; the NA Miata needed +5 to brake effectively, a Clio RS is about right at 0. As usual, as before, the setting is not fine grained enough and you will need to settle for slightly too much understeer for stability. If you find the car locking up the front far too easily, move the bias in the positive direction until the rear tries to break away in a long breaking zone, then knock it back and retest.

GT's ABS is solely responsible for its understeer reputation, and although improved the system still creates issues today. Although weight transfer and suspension damping is greatly improved in recent times, the understeer bias still remains. This is because the ABS applies exactly as much braking power to each wheel according to how much grip it has (affected by load transfer). Naturally proper trail braking limits this effect, but if people are applying hard braking and turning, the car will not turn and will not recover. The tyres with the most grip are the outside tyres and slowing them down more than the inside tyres makes the car turn out of the corner you're trying to turn into.

This also contributes to the snap oversteer on corner entry. If the car is understeering under braking and you release the brake, the car suddenly is able to turn in much faster and it's likely to break loose in the rear.

ABS set to "weak" limits the difference between braking force applied to each wheel, but it still tries to turn the car out of the corner. The setting should really be a yaw assist, sacrificing peak deceleration for front end "bite" during trail braking manoeuvres, like proper motorsport ABS (which is why it was often banned in motorsport). Falling that it should be a dumb system that brakes left and right sides equally, regardless.

Spoiler: Tyres lose grip too easily and can't recover

The tyre model has long been flawed, it seems to still struggle to mix longitudinal slip with lateral slip angle. Additionally the grip fall off is too severe and it's very hard to get back over the knee once traction is broken, giving that ice feeling.

It also makes a poorly set brake balance with ABS off undriveable and frustrating, because lock ups are almost impossible to recover from in that case.

Spoiler: Drivetrains have too much inertia

There is still far too much inertia in the drivetrain, which means that a spinning driven wheel doesn't regrip once power is removed, it takes time to slow down even when spinning against the road surface. The grip fall off of the tyre model makes this worse.

It also renders small cars utterly tedious, as they should be nippy but the slow revving nature of the model means they're ultimately uninteresting. GT has historically had issues with stability when engines get too responsive or when real world data is not available, so this seems like an attempt to avoid that instability.

Spoiler: Inappropriate default settings

The default settings are an issue too, and I think the reason that GT7 doesn't feel as planted as Sport is because of the additional tuning parts. The drivetrain, suspension and tyre models have to cope with a much wider range of usage and so it's much harder to tune for both feel and stability.

The default LSD settings are an obvious brute force whitewash and many cars suffer for it. My approach is to get the fully adjustable item, set it to as open as it can be made (all 5s) and add acceleration until the inside wheel stops spinning up. If you go too far the car becomes unstable in acceleration and creates snap oversteer. If you're having trouble on a trailing throttle, add decel. Then if the car is upset by throttle modulation on long high speed corners, try adjusting the preload. You usually don't need high numbers at all.

I should be clear I don't much care about absolute pace, I just like to enjoy each car for what it is.

The specific causal relationships about GT7 physics are interesting...do you have any data to support your conclusions? Or just seat-of-the-pants sensations? Getting some data around your points would certainly help to isolate and cement the problems you've outlined. Is there a way to gather such data from a console? I'm not skilled in this area.

Subsequently, if there is no data, could we approach this in another way? Could you apply your conclusions and make an attempt to verify them by tuning for and against your claimed causal relationships? It sounds like a bit of work, but starting with something simple to design the ideal character in corner entry may help to illustrate how physics can be improved.

I'm trying to do this in my Radical with SM at 550pp atm. I'm not looking for pace, just playing around to see what GT7 has to offer...

 

[Griffith500]

The specific causal relationships about GT7 physics are interesting...do you have any data to support your conclusions? Or just seat-of-the-pants sensations? Getting some data around your points would certainly help to isolate and cement the problems you've outlined. Is there a way to gather such data from a console? I'm not skilled in this area.

Subsequently, if there is no data, could we approach this in another way? Could you apply your conclusions and make an attempt to verify them by tuning for and against your claimed causal relationships? It sounds like a bit of work, but starting with something simple to design the ideal character in corner entry may help to illustrate how physics can be improved.

I'm trying to do this in my Radical with SM at 550pp atm. I'm not looking for pace, just playing around to see what GT7 has to offer...

100% seat of the pants based on experience with interactive simulations and physical modeling of dynamic systems in general.

Spoiler: Rationale

If you know what active yaw feels like, my opinion is that the conclusions about ABS should be pretty intuitive. Driving without ABS and with an appropriate brake bias is revelatory in practice (ignoring lap time issues).

Watching how long it takes a spinning wheel to re-grip again off-throttle should trigger some eyebrow raising and in combination with the behaviour of very small (and very big) engines quite quickly points the finger at inertia modeling, for my money.

Incorrect specs and default settings are a series bugbear - a simple consequence of the number of cars available. In addition, the settings sheet uses interesting "units" for e.g. suspension and LSD settings that requires "translation" from the actual vehicle's physical specs. Historically (in older games) even spring rates were entered incorrectly; often using spring rates directly as wheel rates for linkage designs, for example (ever since partnering with KW there seems to have been an improvement in the kinematic modeling in GT's suspension).

My comments about the tyre model are probably more tenuous as I'm far from an expert. My suspicion is that the lateral and longitudinal forces are not being treated independently in the slip regime, causing both the on-ice feeling on tarmac (once traction is broken) and the strange dirt behaviour too.


In any case the best approach would ideally be to actively try to disprove my conclusions, rather than prove them - but I've never really had the kind of rigour or motivation necessary for actual science in practice.

Some of my confidence comes from garage and more recently "spec database" modding in the PS3 games of course, directly fiddling with the numbers the game actually uses (this is where the infamous "chassis grip" fudge-factor was first discovered)

Per data gathering, replays used to be a great source (at one time they could be exported for use in Motec software on PC), but I'm not sure on the state of that for PS4 / PS5 as Sony / PD are very protective over their data formats. There was a thread for that long ago with some actual data - it's not relevant as far as the current tyre model is concerned, but the underlying physical system feels very similar to older games and it shows where we're coming from I guess.

It should go without saying that I'm not expecting my word to be considered gospel, I just wanted to share my experiences with finding some genuine joy out of the underyling physics and bringing out the character of each car (instead of burying it under a stack of assists).

In short I think my approach to assists and car settings is universal and can be illuminating for any player (in the true spirit of GTs of old), especially if the idea of turning off ABS and traction control is not to be feared but rather a challenge to be relished. Horses for courses, basically.

My opinion is that once you get into it and learn to work around its foibles, GT offers (has offered, since GT5) quite a rich simulation in terms of tyre and track temperatures, surface water, wind speed / direction and of course time of day that isn't necessarily obvious (or advertised) on the surface. I also think the eSports angle sits contrary to that philosophy because it's all about optimising, not enjoying. I do hope for improvements, always, but never expect too much

 

[dabz343]

100% seat of the pants based on experience with interactive simulations and physical modeling of dynamic systems in general.

Spoiler: Rationale

If you know what active yaw feels like, my opinion is that the conclusions about ABS should be pretty intuitive. Driving without ABS and with an appropriate brake bias is revelatory in practice (ignoring lap time issues).

Watching how long it takes a spinning wheel to re-grip again off-throttle should trigger some eyebrow raising and in combination with the behaviour of very small (and very big) engines quite quickly points the finger at inertia modeling, for my money.

Incorrect specs and default settings are a series bugbear - a simple consequence of the number of cars available. In addition, the settings sheet uses interesting "units" for e.g. suspension and LSD settings that requires "translation" from the actual vehicle's physical specs. Historically (in older games) even spring rates were entered incorrectly; often using spring rates directly as wheel rates for linkage designs, for example (ever since partnering with KW there seems to have been an improvement in the kinematic modeling in GT's suspension).

My comments about the tyre model are probably more tenuous as I'm far from an expert. My suspicion is that the lateral and longitudinal forces are not being treated independently in the slip regime, causing both the on-ice feeling on tarmac (once traction is broken) and the strange dirt behaviour too.


In any case the best approach would ideally be to actively try to disprove my conclusions, rather than prove them - but I've never really had the kind of rigour or motivation necessary for actual science in practice.

Some of my confidence comes from garage and more recently "spec database" modding in the PS3 games of course, directly fiddling with the numbers the game actually uses (this is where the infamous "chassis grip" fudge-factor was first discovered)

Per data gathering, replays used to be a great source (at one time they could be exported for use in Motec software on PC), but I'm not sure on the state of that for PS4 / PS5 as Sony / PD are very protective over their data formats. There was a thread for that long ago with some actual data - it's not relevant as far as the current tyre model is concerned, but the underlying physical system feels very similar to older games and it shows where we're coming from I guess.

It should go without saying that I'm not expecting my word to be considered gospel, I just wanted to share my experiences with finding some genuine joy out of the underyling physics and bringing out the character of each car (instead of burying it under a stack of assists).

In short I think my approach to assists and car settings is universal and can be illuminating for any player (in the true spirit of GTs of old), especially if the idea of turning off ABS and traction control is not to be feared but rather a challenge to be relished. Horses for courses, basically.

My opinion is that once you get into it and learn to work around its foibles, GT offers (has offered, since GT5) quite a rich simulation in terms of tyre and track temperatures, surface water, wind speed / direction and of course time of day that isn't necessarily obvious (or advertised) on the surface. I also think the eSports angle sits contrary to that philosophy because it's all about optimising, not enjoying. I do hope for improvements, always, but never expect too much

Curious to know what car(s) in GT7 were considered in forming your seat-of-the-pants opinion?

Second, in your mind, which GT7 cars exemplifies the qualities you highlight? Both good and bad...I want to get some context, and perhaps try them out for myself.

 

[Griffith500]

Curious to know what car(s) in GT7 were considered in forming your seat-of-the-pants opinion?

Second, in your mind, which GT7 cars exemplifies the qualities you highlight? Both good and bad...I want to get some context, and perhaps try them out for myself.

The NA Miata is a good example to experiment with both ABS off and the LSD settings. You can apply the experience gained to any other car.

I noticed the Camaro Z28 egregiously exhibits the issue with wheels continuing to spin off-throttle.

 

[Jo3f1sh]

I'd like to know how a Mitsubishi Evolution IV is OVERSTEERING under power in stock form, when it's torque distribution is supposed to be 50:50. I have never heard of these cars doing this in any road test or review. If anything, they are known to understeer quite heavily from the factory, and many forums are filled with owners looking for solutions to cure it.

 

[Griffith500]

The Lan-Evo IV had AYC (active yaw control), albeit only on the rear diff.

 

[ruggermole]

I'd be a bigger fan of ABS off if I could calibrate my brakes in game. I'm not going to take the time to commit the threshold to memory on each car I jump into. I remember I tried it in GTSport with the formula car and I was locking up at like 25% brake pedal after straights which isn't standard across games.

 

[Tenacious D]

There was a thread for that long ago with some actual data - it's not relevant as far as the current tyre model is concerned, but the underlying physical system feels very similar to older games and it shows where we're coming from I guess.

This is kind of the consensus of a lot of the pros and experienced-in-many-areas folk, that the PD physics ninjas were so proud of their code that they based almost everything off of that first build in GT1 so many decades ago. At the time it was pretty amazing, but many of us think they would be better off starting from scratch to build a new tire and kinetics model. Maybe in GT8, if we're lucky.

I'll have to wait till later to read your essays, want to get back to the track, but skimming them was fun.

I'd be a bigger fan of ABS off if I could calibrate my brakes in game.

Hear hear. This is one of the things that need to seep in to Gran Turismo from real life. It shouldn't be hard to do.

 

[Griffith500]

This is kind of the consensus of a lot of the pros and experienced-in-many-areas folk, that the PD physics ninjas were so proud of their code that they based almost everything off of that first build in GT1 so many decades ago. At the time it was pretty amazing, but many of us think they would be better off starting from scratch to build a new tire and kinetics model. Maybe in GT8, if we're lucky.

...

This is my impression too, based on the many years of threads like this one. It's clearly a genius piece of model design and they do seem reluctant to let it go. As soon as I saw certain names on the credits I was already expecting more of the same.

I don't know if a redesign will ever come. They came so close to a revolution in the engine sounds but ultimately seem to have given up and fallen back on the tried and true. Granted a lot of people are happy with how that turned out, so maybe they can do the same kind of shoring up with the tried and true physics too.


As for the brake calibration, a simple sensitivity setting would go a long way. That and a braking force slider for the car settings (wasn't that already a thing in Sport?) and a more precise seeing for the bias too.

 

[Johnnn]

The game is definitely easier after 1.09 but it doesn't feel like tuned physics but like they added more aids. It's like TC 0 is now TC 0.5 or something. Cars are without any aid much more stable than before.

 

[extreme car]

I've been tuning 600pp SS tyre RX7 FD last night and managed to made it driveable enough to be able to complete a lap of nurburgring at a high pace without spinning out. seems like LSD tuning is the key to making your car stable on the exit and somewhat cure that snap oversteer at exit of corners. I've tried all different kind of suspension tuning to remedy this but all it does is it makes my RX7 understeer then snap oversteer at exit of corner.



this is one of the lap where I did the decent lap, It seemed to me the other RWD cars in this lobby have the same snap oversteer problem as my RX7. the people in this lobby is no amateur, I've raced them since GT5-6 era and they're able to do a consistent fast lap around nurburgring with their RUF yellow birds back then. other complaints I have is it seems the PP system is quite unbalanced, the RX7 spirit R is no longer a competitive car but that's for another thread.

 

[Tenacious D]

The game is definitely easier after 1.09 but it doesn't feel like tuned physics but like they added more aids. It's like TC 0 is now TC 0.5 or something.

I was curious if they had a work-in-progress physics build and slapped that in. Of course they would never say, but for such an early patch, a band-aid fix like hidden assists make as much sense as anything. Right now, I'm just happy to feel like I know what I'm doing.

One more thing. I was surprised in the last Menu Book championship on the Nurb how bumpy the track was with my McLaren. I don't remember sections of it having such a rough surface.

 

[LSFDRX]

I've been tuning 600pp SS tyre RX7 FD last night and managed to made it driveable enough to be able to complete a lap of nurburgring at a high pace without spinning out. seems like LSD tuning is the key to making your car stable on the exit and somewhat cure that snap oversteer at exit of corners. I've tried all different kind of suspension tuning to remedy this but all it does is it makes my RX7 understeer then snap oversteer at exit of corner.



this is one of the lap where I did the decent lap, It seemed to me the other RWD cars in this lobby have the same snap oversteer problem as my RX7. the people in this lobby is no amateur, I've raced them since GT5-6 era and they're able to do a consistent fast lap around nurburgring with their RUF yellow birds back then. other complaints I have is it seems the PP system is quite unbalanced, the RX7 spirit R is no longer a competitive car but that's for another thread.

I've done a fair amount of tuning on the FD as well, and much like you, it's drivable (at about 380hp now), but it WILL murder you if you stop consciously thinking about every little throttle input. There are far more "relaxing" rear drivers out there, but it's nice to have the RX7 to get used to the balance of the game I guess. Ha ha.

 

[JDMKING13]

I was curious if they had a work-in-progress physics build and slapped that in. Of course they would never say, but for such an early patch, a band-aid fix like hidden assists make as much sense as anything. Right now, I'm just happy to feel like I know what I'm doing.

One more thing. I was surprised in the last Menu Book championship on the Nurb how bumpy the track was with my McLaren. I don't remember sections of it having such a rough surface.

I don’t feel as their assist maybe just better feedback and grip limits.. I can feel a lot more within the cars especially the rear… the smoother you are with your throttle inputs the better you can feel the rear and limits. Had another high lap test day tonight the cars are feeling really good!

 

[extreme car]

I've done a fair amount of tuning on the FD as well, and much like you, it's drivable (at about 380hp now), but it WILL murder you if you stop consciously thinking about every little throttle input. There are far more "relaxing" rear drivers out there, but it's nice to have the RX7 to get used to the balance of the game I guess. Ha ha.

The thing is my FD is around 330 hp and 1270kg with aero front, and rear and it still snaps while the gr. 4 supra that i raced in wtc 700 is around 400hp and 1380kg and doesn't have that nasty snap oversteer at exit. Let's hope PD fixes the RWD cars on the next patch.

 

[Tenacious D]

I don’t feel as they're assist maybe just better feedback and grip limits.

It could be. The game was most likely wrapped up in its "pseudo 1.0" version a couple of months ago so it could be shipped on time. Then the coding team was likely slaving away at the unfinished stuff, and some of us think they were forced to release it before it was truly ready. The physics and tire model update might have been close to something useful, and we got it in 1.08.

I'd sure rather get a physics patch than hidden assists. And more stuff is coming for sure, so we have some goodies to look forward to. Along with board wipes...