Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT

  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
PirovacBoy
@br1x thanks a lot for reacting with a pile of Poo, but actually why 😂
What‘s it you obviously disagree with ?!
Maybe you‘re able to add more substance to my Statement than just a generic Emoticon 😉
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Because I really didn't want to make this post, as there have been several people with real life experience who stated how and why cars don't behave the way they should many many times on these last pages. Literally, so many times.. Of course it is possible to drive without getting oversteer in this game, you just underdrive everything and you are fine, which is what I suspect you do to make it work.

2 cars were even mentioned on this very page, the license tests of the Nissan Z33 at Tsukuba and the Corvette at Willow Springs. I have driven both those cars in real life, the Z33 I have a lot of experience with, they both don't oversteer as easily and sudden as in this game.

Others have also mentioned the GR 86, Ermin has mentioned the Porsche 911 GT3 RS, a well-known "drivers car", in this video as well:


Also most MR Gr. 3 cars as well as the BMW M6 GT3 which just wants to kill you for some reason.


It has been mentioned in this thread several times, and then those who claimed the physics are perfect said they would test it, then came back with something along the lines of "well, it was definetely a bit oversteery but nothing I couldn't control or react to or that felt unrealistic" and maybe add a video to it from where nothing can really be concluded.

We have had this several times in this thread, it is just getting exhausting and pointless, that's why I just reacted instead of answering. I am certain this is an infinite loop by now.


I will just mention @Scaff as he knows a lot more about real car behavior than me and can probably explain it a lot better as well.
 
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Suggestion, open a broken GT7 Lobby and bring your skills -- or lack there of. It's simple, show, stop talking, and capture the video so we can all see what the truth is.

EDIT -- sry, 3.5k+ posts guys...really?
 
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dabz343
Suggestion, open a broken GT7 Lobby and bring your skills -- or lack there of. It's simple, show, stop talking, and capture the video so we can all see what the truth is.

EDIT -- sry, 3.5k+ posts guys...really?
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Sign me up
 
br1x
Because I really didn't want to make this post, as there have been several people with real life experience who stated how and why cars don't behave the way they should many many times on these last pages. Literally, so many times.. Of course it is possible to drive without getting oversteer in this game, you just underdrive everything and you are fine, which is what I suspect you do to make it work.

2 cars were even mentioned on this very page, the license tests of the Nissan Z33 at Tsukuba and the Corvette at Willow Springs. I have driven both those cars in real life, the Z33 I have a lot of experience with, they both don't oversteer as easily and sudden as in this game.

Others have also mentioned the GR 86, Ermin has mentioned the Porsche 911 GT3 RS, a well-known "drivers car", in this video as well:


Also most MR Gr. 3 cars as well as the BMW M6 GT3 which just wants to kill you for some reason.


It has been mentioned in this thread several times, and then those who claimed the physics are perfect said they would test it, then came back with something along the lines of "well, it was definetely a bit oversteery but nothing I couldn't control or react to or that felt unrealistic" and maybe add a video to it from where nothing can really be concluded.

We have had this several times in this thread, it is just getting exhausting and pointless, that's why I just reacted instead of answering. I am certain this is an infinite loop by now.


I will just mention @Scaff as he knows a lot more about real car behavior than me and can probably explain it a lot better as well.
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Thanks for your reply, I appreciate that.
It wasn’t my intention to dig down further into a Thematic which has been discussed to death.
We have the ones saying the Driving Physics feel fine to them, same as the ones feeling the other way around.
It’s never been my intention to convince anyone to believe what I say.
I can only speak from my experience and point of View, and like I said to me there is nothing broken with the Driving Physics.

I find it quite funny though, you say you suspect I underdrive the Car, stay below its Limits and therefore probably not notice the problem.
That’s interesting. And you‘re correct.
I never try to purposely overdrive a Car, as it feels unnatural to me.
Not only that, it’s unnecessarily slowing me down and hurts my Lap times.
Yet, when I do it I don’t have Problems controlling it as long as I don’t go too far.
Every Car has its Limits and to me I don’t enjoy driving at or above this Limit.
It’s too exhausting and dangerous.
The amount of Focus is not worth the payout.
At the Limit, all good.
Anything beyond, better say your Prayers.
I‘m not that skilled, my reactions are not what they were anymore a few years ago.
I learned to stay within MY LIMITS.
The Cars are not the Limiting Factor to me, it’s me 😉
And I wouldn’t call myself a Sunday Driver neither.
This Week for example I’m just 1 Second off the Worlds fastest Lap Time at Circuit the Catalunya for Daily Race C.
Took me maybe 30 Minutes of trying out and reaching MY Limit.
The Car is obviously capable of more…but I’m not 😁
 
@PirovacBoy

I'm one of those people who are basically happy with the game, enjoy it and really feel like it's getting better bit by bit day by day, because the game really responds to so much more very fine detail than it does eg. was the case in GTS.



But to propose you a car that is extreme, take a 3.0 CSL (a dream car of mine) and tune it to the maximum (you notice it without tuning, but with it it becomes all the more violent and easier to repeat) and you you won't be able to take a curve halfway well without reducing your speed extremely and that's not much fun.



As I said.... I love GT7 and am totally enjoying it. There were just a few things I would have liked to soften.
 
br1x
I will just mention @Scaff as he knows a lot more about real car behavior than me and can probably explain it a lot better as well.
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Quite frankly given the degree of confirmation bias rampant ion this thread I have much more constructive ways to spend my time.

GT7 has, in my view, demonstrable issues with it's physics engine, and even more so it's FFB (these are however not the biggest issues with GT7 as a title, but that's for other threads).

If people wish to believe that GT7 has nothing wrong with either of these things, good for them, I mean I utterly disagree, but if it makes them happy go for it.
 
I think in the end, we just gonna end up with a carbon copy of GTS since the physics complaints are getting way too much and you know companies have to listen to the masses so that the money can come in.

Different strokes for different folks, the physics made me rethink my driving style and taught me about patience and taking more advantage of the car's inertia and weight transfer and it made me even better when it came to tuning cause you kind of know what parts to buy and parts not to buy. So I give it a plus on my side, still not too sure about the rain physics. Maybe they can borrow a page out of ACC when it comes to water on the track.

But in the end, if 70% of the community wants physics that allows them to "full throttle" then they not wrong for asking that. Don't expect to be an expert on the streets tho, the streets will humble you.😂
 
I think the majority don't even want the limit of grip changed. They simply want the falloff beyond the limit to be less extreme, and for traction to be regained more quickly once you begin to correct a slide.

It wouldn't make anybody faster, it would simply help bring consistency to the racing.
 
Think the reasonable voices here (from both sides) have been demonstrative and their conclusions are solid.

Since I'm one of those that sees the good and the bad, I would like to offer a chance to get more quantitative, and less qualitative. How about if I open a lobby sometime this week/weekend so that those who have strong opinions could test the physics in a fun and relaxed manner. Sometimes, staring at words -- you can misinterpret the tone and intent. Plus, we can observe driver inputs and chat about OEM characteristics live.

We would need a small range of cars so everyone can offer their perspectives. Also, few track suggestions. Of course, everyone is welcome to join.

AMG Black on SM
Radical on SM
Gr4 on RH

PS -- it would be so much easier if we had that 'one-make' option in lobbies...save GT7's lobbies :bowdown:
 
Scaff
Literally not what people are asking for, and a demonstrable example of why this thread is a dumpster fire I try and now avoid.
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We'll just have to wait and see what updates will be brought but I can already bet that the physics will soon be updated to make driving easier. But we'll see.
 
dabz343
Think the reasonable voices here (from both sides) have been demonstrative and their conclusions are solid.

Since I'm one of those that sees the good and the bad, I would like to offer a chance to get more quantitative, and less qualitative. How about if I open a lobby sometime this week/weekend so that those who have strong opinions could test the physics in a fun and relaxed manner. Sometimes, staring at words -- you can misinterpret the tone and intent. Plus, we can observe driver inputs and chat about OEM characteristics live.

We would need a small range of cars so everyone can offer their perspectives. Also, few track suggestions. Of course, everyone is welcome to join.

AMG Black on SM
Radical on SM
Gr4 on RH

PS -- it would be so much easier if we had that 'one-make' option in lobbies...save GT7's lobbies :bowdown:
Click to expand...
While a great ideal… I don’t think it’s going to happen.. we made these suggestions when the game first came out and it was just cricket 🦗….. Asking the people to post videos of their driving and show where the physics are actually broken… nothing but crickets…. I would love to join a room where we could all get together so I could see peoples driving technique… many of the people who don’t have a problem with the physics was trying to make this happen but as I said it won’t happen my friend. Also we should use easy stock production cars that everyone should have no problem driving so we could get finer results.
 
JDMKING13
While a great ideal… I don’t think it’s going to happen.. we made these suggestions when the game first came out and it was just cricket 🦗….. Asking the people to post videos of their driving and show where the physics are actually broken… nothing but crickets…. I would love to join a room where we could all get together so I could see peoples driving technique… many of the people who don’t have a problem with the physics was trying to make this happen but as I said it won’t happen my friend. Also we should use easy stock production cars that everyone should have no problem driving so we could get finer results.
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No idea why you claim the people post no videos when there are so many videos on the last 5 pages alone, I linked a YouTube video explaining the problem, I gave exact examples of 2 license tests everyone can access explaining the how the cars don't behave like they do in real life, which is also what a lot of others did.

Again proving the point I made, people who claim the physics are fine just ignore the issues being demonstrated and that's why this discussion is stuck in a loop.
 
br1x
No idea why you claim the people post no videos when there are so many videos on the last 5 pages alone, I linked a YouTube video explaining the problem, I gave exact examples of 2 license tests everyone can access explaining the how the cars don't behave like they do in real life, which is also what a lot of others did.

Again proving the point I made, people who claim the physics are fine just ignore the issues being demonstrated and that's why this discussion is stuck in a loop.
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You mean videos where people turn the wheel too much and then stomp the throttle? Or keep a steady throttle but still turn the wheel too much? Would that be evidence of broken physics or poor driving?

And no, nobody's "under driving" the cars. @PirovacBoy certainly isn't - I'm probably faster than most of you and he's faster than I am, in GT7 as well as IRL or any other game.
 
HugoTwoWheels
You mean videos where people turn the wheel too much and then stomp the throttle? Or keep a steady throttle but still turn the wheel too much? Would that be evidence of broken physics or poor driving?

And no, nobody's "under driving" the cars. @PirovacBoy certainly isn't - I'm probably faster than most of you and he's faster than I am, in GT7 as well as IRL or any other game.
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And again, you don't want to understand.

IT IS NOT ABOUT BEING FAST, I am A+ ranked too, the Aliens are still quite a bit faster than me, that doesn't mean the cars behave like they should.

But now I am again explaining things that have been explained many times here, and people still chose to ignore them. I am done on this topic now, have fun.
 
br1x
No idea why you claim the people post no videos when there are so many videos on the last 5 pages alone, I linked a YouTube video explaining the problem, I gave exact examples of 2 license tests everyone can access explaining the how the cars don't behave like they do in real life, which is also what a lot of others did.

Again proving the point I made, people who claim the physics are fine just ignore the issues being demonstrated and that's why this discussion is stuck in a loop.
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Did you post YOUR videos? I can find people on YouTube praise GT7 physics also.. that’s not my issues… I’m actually posting MY driving and backing up my claims not posting others people videos… I’m playing the game driving the cars with downgraded tires and no abs no electronic aids. I have asked people who are having trouble post a lap… not YouTube videos of other people driving..

@br1x yup exactly leave your poo emoji…
 
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Td04


Just a lil of cherry picking video.. i guess reality is broken too and he Is waiting for the kaz's next patch 😀
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A point to note, in the beginning of this clip where he spins, he is doing about 125 kph...that's only around 75-78 mph. The snappiness can get frustrating, but I'm beginning to feel it as less about broken physics, and more about misinterpretation of speed being carried. We're so used to just chucking a car into corners and expecting it to grip thru and on exit that having to use more real world approaches and inputs makes the physics seem broken. I think it would suprise many how easy it is to unsettle a car when all that weight starts getting thrown around. Broken or not, I'm finding the more I drive GT7 (with a real world approach), the closer to the edge I am able to achieve, and have been getting better and better at catching the car when it does go over the limit. If pushed too far or attempted to carry too much speed, exceeding the cars traction limits, it results in a spin. Even the pro drivers in the real world run the cars as close to the limit without going over...that's the point, staying within the limits is what GT7 is trying to teach us as drivers. Watch any real world race on a hi friction surface (rally not counting in this conversation) and more times than not, a car over the lateral limit ends in a spin...the few who catch it are lucky, or are just really that good. Think about the high g load and forces on the tires, and imagine whats happening when that load releases....it results in a sudden loss of traction. We all like to pretend we can save every loss of traction and that there isn't a car we can't control, but let's face it, 75-80% of us would likely spin if we even attempted to go anywhere near the limit of whatever real world chosen car we used. And, I'd bet only a handful of us could drift in the real world the way we do in game without spinning. I spun my 01 Camaro Z28 at a Solo event running a little too hard in a slalom...and I'd be lucky if I was going more than 45-50mph...and I had 275/40/17 front and 315/35/17 rear Nitto NT05 rubber. It doesn't take much when that weight start moving and the lateral grip let's go. I believe GT7 is asking us to repect the limits and the real consequences for trying to expore those limits. If it's too easy to save, the threshold just keeps getting higher and higher until we're back to gtsport styled physics...I personally don't want to see that happen. Either way, I'm coming to enjoy the game and the changed approach it requires...and like any "Race car driver" I'll adapt and learn where the limits are and how best to control the cars within those limits.
 
llNovall
A point to note, in the beginning of this clip where he spins, he is doing about 125 kph...that's only around 75-78 mph. The snappiness can get frustrating, but I'm beginning to feel it as less about broken physics, and more about misinterpretation of speed being carried. We're so used to just chucking a car into corners and expecting it to grip thru and on exit that having to use more real world approaches and inputs makes the physics seem broken. I think it would suprise many how easy it is to unsettle a car when all that weight starts getting thrown around. Broken or not, I'm finding the more I drive GT7 (with a real world approach), the closer to the edge I am able to achieve, and have been getting better and better at catching the car when it does go over the limit. If pushed too far or attempted to carry too much speed, exceeding the cars traction limits, it results in a spin. Even the pro drivers in the real world run the cars as close to the limit without going over...that's the point, staying within the limits is what GT7 is trying to teach us as drivers. Watch any real world race on a hi friction surface (rally not counting in this conversation) and more times than not, a car over the lateral limit ends in a spin...the few who catch it are lucky, or are just really that good. Think about the high g load and forces on the tires, and imagine whats happening when that load releases....it results in a sudden loss of traction. We all like to pretend we can save every loss of traction and that there isn't a car we can't control, but let's face it, 75-80% of us would likely spin if we even attempted to go anywhere near the limit of whatever real world chosen car we used. And, I'd bet only a handful of us could drift in the real world the way we do in game without spinning. I spun my 01 Camaro Z28 at a Solo event running a little too hard in a slalom...and I'd be lucky if I was going more than 45-50mph...and I had 275/40/17 front and 315/35/17 rear Nitto NT05 rubber. It doesn't take much when that weight start moving and the lateral grip let's go. I believe GT7 is asking us to repect the limits and the real consequences for trying to expore those limits. If it's too easy to save, the threshold just keeps getting higher and higher until we're back to gtsport styled physics...I personally don't want to see that happen. Either way, I'm coming to enjoy the game and the changed approach it requires...and like any "Race car driver" I'll adapt and learn where the limits are and how best to control the cars within those limits.
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I wish I could like this 1000 times… and the example you just mentioned happened to me.. I’m driving the 991 gt3rs around Tokyo SH abs weak… and coming around one of the sweepers the car kinda got unsettled.. I’m like that doesn’t seem right I looked down and I was doing around 80mph. 😂 As soon as I saw that said ahhhh ok I’m going a little too fast. I agree with everything you said though great explanation!
 
llNovall
Even the pro drivers in the real world run the cars as close to the limit without going over...
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No, they don't.

Tyres generate the most grip at the point they are slipping, which is over the limit, professional drivers dance the car on the limit, and even with race tyres stepping over the limit is progressive.

Allow me to post a professional racing driver and instructor disagreeing with you, this video may well be in regard to iRacing back when it had a similar issue to GT7's lack of tyre progression over the limit.

 
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Johnnn
But there is nice progression at least on a gamepad for now. Maybe the window is smaller than usual but it's there for sure.
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You can also feel on the wheel.. the only time I don’t get the sensation is when I stomp on the gas and the car has a lot of torque example my F8… then that snap oversteer slaps you on the face!
 
Scaff
No, they don't.

Tyres generate the most grip at the point they are slipping, which is over the limit, professional drivers dance the car on the limit, and even with race tyres stepping over the limit is progressive.

Allow me to post a professional racing driver and instructor disagreeing with you, this video may well be in regard to iRacing back when it had a similar issue to GT7's lack of tyre progression over the limit.

Click to expand...

Wait. This might be purely semantics, but this doesn't make any sense to me. I have always understood the phrase "the limit" to mean the point where the tires' grip transitions fully from elastic to frictional, or in other words the point where the lateral grip graph peaks and then begins to drop off. So to me it seems strange to say that tires generate the most grip "over the limit", because by definition the limit is where they generate the most grip. But I'm neither an engineer nor a physicist, so I could absolutely be mistaken.



Just as a note, I only post this to clarify my understanding of tire physics, not because I disagree with you about the physics of GT7.
 

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