Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[FPV MIC]

I talk a bit about it here:



The main issue doesn't seem to be anything too fundamentally wrong with the physics, but rather the grip level of the tires themselves, the still quite numb FFB doesn't help, along with some FFB drag when countersteering.

It's like the tyres are overinflated, and its similar to running street tyres at OEM pressures in AC, which is easily solved in AC by dropping the PSI by around 4-5 on each corner, which of course we can't do, because Gran Turismo.

I just watched this on your channel and personally think it's a fair assessment 👍

 

[Scaff]

I just watched this on your channel and personally think it's a fair assessment 👍

Thanks.

It's more than fixable by PD, I just hope they actually fix it rather than take the nuclear option and just nerf the hell out of everything.

 

[danardif1]

I don't think they're 'bonkers' at all. If we use the example of the Nissan at Tsukuba licence test, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that if you're full throttle in that left hander before the timing line, the car is going to be unstable at the rear. I do think the tyres are perhaps lacking the grip one would expect of them, but the car behaviour is largely predictable and controllable in my experience. Once I had a couple of attempts at that particular licence and thought about my approach more carefully rather than expecting I can smash the throttle in 3rd gear of a reasonably powerful sportscar and get away with no power oversteer, I found it much easier to get a good time. Same goes for the NSX @ Suzuka hairpin. I had one attempt to feel what the car would do and get a base time, and then easily passed the gold time on the 2nd attempt.

Throttle control is a thing and it does appear that a lot of people have got used to things being rather easier in that area in past titles.

 

[Symtex]

I don't think they're 'bonkers' at all. If we use the example of the Nissan at Tsukuba licence test, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that if you're full throttle in that left hander before the timing line, the car is going to be unstable at the rear. I do think the tyres are perhaps lacking the grip one would expect of them, but the car behaviour is largely predictable and controllable in my experience. Once I had a couple of attempts at that particular licence and thought about my approach more carefully rather than expecting I can smash the throttle in 3rd gear of a reasonably powerful sportscar and get away with no power oversteer, I found it much easier to get a good time. Same goes for the NSX @ Suzuka hairpin. I had one attempt to feel what the car would do and get a base time, and then easily passed the gold time on the 2nd attempt.

Throttle control is a thing and it does appear that a lot of people have got used to things being rather easier in that area in past titles.

Harder =/= more realistic. I drive a Corvette in real life. I think I would understand the characteristic of a RWD Car.

 

[Phoenixsui]

I dont think its only the tyres.
With slightest steering input the cars just lose their rears. With just maintaining throttle during fast curves where in reality i can accelerate (not full throttle).
In IB-3 i realized that cars no matter how little steering input and how fast the corner, with throttle they oversteer without they understeer. While in reality when driving a long corner if i slowly add throttle the car will accelerate and if i get to fast in that corner the car will start sliding straight over the front tires but never lose the rear. It only loses it with harsh steering inputs or throttle input. Or over bumbs. If they dont drastically change this i dont know.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I’ve no idea how realistic the gr3 spin outs are but the way the road cars spin out at speeds that we’ve all driven ourselves is definitely not anything close to accurate.
On Kie’s stream he’s saying the pad is much more forgiving than the wheel which is worrying.

 

[danardif1]

Harder =/= more realistic. I drive a Corvette in real life. I think I would understand the characteristic of a RWD Car.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say this.

You'll know then from your real-world experience that if you applied full throttle in third gear on a corner exit where you've already pitched the weight of the car onto the outside front corner, there is the potential for the rear to become unstable. I actually said the tyres seem less grippy than what we should expect in my post. My contention was that the physics are somehow wrong inherently. I don't think they are. I think it's actually what @Scaff refers to in his excellent video, that the tyre model may be using an internal pressure figure that is not optimised for track driving. I also think people are trying to drive cars that use TC in real life without it because they could in GT games before.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say this.

You'll know then from your real-world experience that if you applied full throttle in third gear on a corner exit where you've already pitched the weight of the car onto the outside front corner, there is the potential for the rear to become unstable. I actually said the tyres seem less grippy than what we should expect in my post. My contention was that the physics are somehow wrong inherently. I don't think they are. I think it's actually what @Scaff refers to in his excellent video, that the tyre model may be using an internal pressure figure that is not optimised for track driving. I also think people are trying to drive cars that use TC in real life without it because they could in GT games before.

It’s not even full throttle. Taking a 911 through a banked curve and half throttle will take it out. That’s not right.

 

[Phoenixsui]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say this.

You'll know then from your real-world experience that if you applied full throttle in third gear on a corner exit where you've already pitched the weight of the car onto the outside front corner, there is the potential for the rear to become unstable. I actually said the tyres seem less grippy than what we should expect in my post. My contention was that the physics are somehow wrong inherently. I don't think they are. I think it's actually what @Scaff refers to in his excellent video, that the tyre model may be using an internal pressure figure that is not optimised for track driving. I also think people are trying to drive cars that use TC in real life without it because they could in GT games before.

My Mustang actually driver more controllable without TCS in reality. As the TCS is way overtuned and brakes will aply a lot of braking power in corners where its perfectly save and unnecessary. To the point where it gets dangerous and undrivable lol. The Mustang 2013 was not made for Trackuse in his factorystate.

 

[Scaff]

OK, not sure what the common denominator is here, I just gave IB-1 a go, and I'm traditionally rubbish at license tests (not an all Gold man at all).

Here's the unedited video of my three tries.

1. wasn't paying attention and didn't realize it had started, result = off-track
2. Bronze
3. Silver

This issuing a T300 with a set of L-PCM pedals, as per my sig, don't get me wrong the grip level overall is too low, but I'm not having the same issues some are.




It may help work out what is going on if people can post what they are using when attempting it.

 

[Phoenixsui]

OK, not sure what the common denominator is here, I just gave IB-1 a go, and I'm traditionally rubbish at license tests (not an all Gold man at all).

Here's the unedited video of my three tries.

1. wasn't paying attention and didn't realize it had started, result = off-track
2. Bronze
3. Silver

This issuing a T300 with a set of L-PCM pedals, as per my sig, don;t get me wrong the grip level overall is too low, but I'm not having the same issues some are.




It may help work out what is going on if people can post what they are using when attempting it.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah silver was no problem too after spinning out without any good reason several times. But if you want to go for gold you need to go further to the limit and thats where it gets ridiculous.

 

[Symtex]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say this.

You'll know then from your real-world experience that if you applied full throttle in third gear on a corner exit where you've already pitched the weight of the car onto the outside front corner, there is the potential for the rear to become unstable. I actually said the tyres seem less grippy than what we should expect in my post. My contention was that the physics are somehow wrong inherently. I don't think they are. I think it's actually what @Scaff refers to in his excellent video, that the tyre model may be using an internal pressure figure that is not optimised for track driving. I also think people are trying to drive cars that use TC in real life without it because they could in GT games before.

you are making the assumption that I am some chad that never track his car complaining I can't flat out in a corner. I just posted earlier a video from Randy Pobst on Willing Spring in a C7 Corvette. Not only did he maintain speed in the corner he was able to accelerate through it. The car didn't twitch at all, it stayed stable throughout and he exited the corner with full acceleration.

Can you have the backend loose in 3rd gear ? absolutely but not in the way GT7 does it. And you are right even if I am in track mode and TCS is disable, there is still some level of TCS/STM that I can't disable even if I wanted too. I also have an E-LSD in my car which prevent a powerful car line mine to do exactly that : preventing the back end to go loose. Cars today are exceptional safer than they were 10 years ago. It's absolute track weapon.

I am pretty sure the same goes for the 911. Load the front at the entry of the corner and let the back take over at the apex.

 

[FPV MIC]

I’ve no idea how realistic the gr3 spin outs are but the way the road cars spin out at speeds that we’ve all driven ourselves is definitely not anything close to accurate.
On Kie’s stream he’s saying the pad is much more forgiving than the wheel which is worrying.

I found this too! I can slide/drift around a corner far easier with the pad and wheelspin is easier to contain. It's odd really

OK, not sure what the common denominator is here, I just gave IB-1 a go, and I'm traditionally rubbish at license tests (not an all Gold man at all).

Here's the unedited video of my three tries.

1. wasn't paying attention and didn't realize it had started, result = off-track
2. Bronze
3. Silver

This issuing a T300 with a set of L-PCM pedals, as per my sig, don't get me wrong the grip level overall is too low, but I'm not having the same issues some are.




It may help work out what is going on if people can post what they are using when attempting it.

I haven't had a chance to try yet but do you think the view we're using could be more/less informative? I haven't tried much in car view yet (bar stupid Music Rally at the start) but in this video of yours it looked more informative (edit: regarding the cars attitude) than the bumper cam I usually use.

 

[Scaff]

I just posted earlier a video from Randy Pobst on Willing Spring in a C7 Corvette. Not only did he maintain speed in the corner he was able to accelerate through it. The car didn't twitch at all, it stayed stable throughout and he exited the corner with full acceleration.

He's about 5mph quicker than I can manage on the constant radius section, and I agree GT 7's not giving you any more than that. Thanks for posting the video, as I kind of confirms what I suspect is the issue, which is too little grip from the tyres, not by a massive amount but enough to account for this difference in speed and in part why the rear is too mobile.

Your point about active safety systems is also very valid, GT as a series has always been basic in it's implementation of them, and while GT7 is a bit better in that regard, it still doesn't accurately reflect how real-world system function (unlike say AC or AMS2).

I haven't had a chance to try yet but do you think the view we're using could be more/less informative? I haven't tried much in car view yet (bar stupid Music Rally at the start) but it in this video it looked more informative than the bumper cam I usually use.

It may well help, but some of it I think is also just getting used to GT 7 sense of speed and that 'may' be easier to judge in cockpit view.

 

[Worst_Driver]

There is something wrong with the physics as it stands. I can barely drive 300hp RWD cars around any track, even the ovals. I’m playing with a T300RS, same settings as with Sport, never had any problem with GT Sport but now I can’t even do a lap without spinning out. The lift off oversteer is crazy and every car is so snappy you can’t catch a drift.

Am I the only one with this issue ?

 

[Ryan Dungey]

Controller user here I’ve put 14 hours in and 1000miles into GT7 so far and as some one in sport who did a **** load of just lapping improving times again on controller. There is a difference in how the throttle behaves between the two games which I feel some people might not be noticing and driving cars to much like how they did in sport. The weight transfer of the cars now has much more of an effect on the car which in turn you need to make sure you are much more squared off before you hit the throttle again when exiting a corner. Weight transfer is something you have to careful of mid corner and in high speed corners any kind of weight shift starts to unsettle the car. Cars also like to tripod now again thanks to the weight transfer. Messed with a R32 GTR tuned it up to around 540bhp (didn’t mess with the detailed tuning left it as stock in that sense and just nailed some mods on) kept it on sports hards every assist off except ABS which was on weak and it was incredibly easy to control if it snapped it was very easy to catch. It’s a big improvement over sport for users on a controller if your using the dualsense it allows you to be so much more precise on the throttle and brakes. It’s also much better for when your about to lose grips. I played so much today the controller haptics having ruined my hands due to the intense vibrating my hands ache 😂

 

[traind]

I like the physics update. It is more nuanced and you really have to manage the platform/ weight transfer thoughtfully. Definitely a step toward the PC sims. However, I think Scaff is on to something about the tires not being grippy enough.

My example is the license test with the 03 M3 at Barcelona. I owned that M3 for 13 years and yes, I experienced oversteer with it many, many times. I have attended multiple track schools and done track days etc. The car will rotate in real life pretty readily. However, if I ignore the two times I had snap oversteer on snow & ice with summer tires (yes, I know that's a ridiculous combination but it was unexpected trip and weather)... i never felt the M3 was that easy to rotate as in GT7.. On a real track, in good weather, it just felt more grippy and progressive than in GT7.

Now, the license test uses Sport Hard tires. I used to run Pilot Sports, which were the OEM tire. I've always imagined them as Sport medium in GT so that could be part of the difference. Also, I play GT with a controller and the new physics seem like they are going to require some adjustments with the dual shock.I had all assists off. I may try it with stability control back on and see how it feels. I'd like to try GT7 on my simrig but I do not have a compatible wheel. But the extra handling nuance makes me think it might be worth the inverstment this time where as GT Sport was good but never seemed "wheel worthy" to me.

Reactions?

 

[Samus]

OK, not sure what the common denominator is here, I just gave IB-1 a go, and I'm traditionally rubbish at license tests (not an all Gold man at all).

Here's the unedited video of my three tries.

1. wasn't paying attention and didn't realize it had started, result = off-track
2. Bronze
3. Silver

This issuing a T300 with a set of L-PCM pedals, as per my sig, don't get me wrong the grip level overall is too low, but I'm not having the same issues some are.




It may help work out what is going on if people can post what they are using when attempting it.

Super GT and Jimmy Broadbent were both squirming all over the shop as they tried to put the power down on exit in their playthoughs, I assume their rigs are listed on their page somewhere. That being said, they both went under gold by three or four tenths IIRC.

 

[Pfei]

I am watching my 14YO daughter who is on Menu 7 and I am starting to think this game was designed with traction control in mind. The exact opposite of previous games. She flew through the first rounds of license tests with TC 3. She is not a racing game fan and has hardly touched the wheel before today. She does have a legal driving permit and has about 100hs racked up in our Subaru Crosstrek.

 

[kilesa4568]

T300 and bumper cam experiencing the rear grip issue and I'm getting very little, if any feedback from the wheel as it starts to kick out. I've also noticed there's very little feedback from the curbs too. I'm using 4-4 for the settings and Sport had 10x the detail compared to 7.

I can work with it (just) for now but all the wheel sawing is seriously exhausting.

 

[Worst_Driver]

I like the physics update. It is more nuanced and you really have to manage the platform/ weight transfer thoughtfully. Definitely a step toward the PC sims. However, I think Scaff is on to something about the tires not being grippy enough.

My example is the license test with the 03 M3 at Barcelona. I owned that M3 for 13 years and yes, I experienced oversteer with it many, many times. I have attended multiple track schools and done track days etc. The car will rotate in real life pretty readily. However, if I ignore the two times I had snap oversteer on snow & ice with summer tires (yes, I know that's a ridiculous combination but it was unexpected trip and weather)... i never felt the M3 was that easy to rotate as in GT7.. On a real track, in good weather, it just felt more grippy and progressive than in GT7.

Now, the license test uses Sport Hard tires. I used to run Pilot Sports, which were the OEM tire. I've always imagined them as Sport medium in GT so that could be part of the difference. Also, I play GT with a controller and the new physics seem like they are going to require some adjustments with the dual shock.I had all assists off. I may try it with stability control back on and see how it feels. I'd like to try GT7 on my simrig but I do not have a compatible wheel. But the extra handling nuance makes me think it might be worth the inverstment this time where as GT Sport was good but never seemed "wheel worthy" to me.

Reactions?

If my Mustang handled like the RWD cars in the game I’d be dead since a long time.
It feels like there’s a weird pendulum effect. Even a 140hp silvia spins out at quarter / half throttle exiting a corner on a dry track on sports hards.

High speed corners are terrifing and ovals are simply impossible.

 

[JDMKING13]

I am watching my 14YO daughter who is on Menu 7 and I am starting to think this game was designed with traction control in mind. The exact opposite of previous games. She flew through the first rounds of license tests with TC 3. She is not a racing game fan and has hardly touched the wheel before today. She does have a legal driving permit and has about 100hs racked up in our Subaru Crosstrek.

I said it before I feel like when driving stock cars without tuning them you might need to leave TCS on… it just feels like AC to me.. And agree with Scaff with people saying how their real car handles.. I don’t know how many people are turning off all their electronic aids pushing their car to a limit compared to GT7…

 

[Haitauer]

After few hours and just few cars. Oversteer is definetely a bit overwhelming and its a bit too easy to loose control. That said - i kind of like how its actually a lot more about controlling the over-/understeer. A lot more subtle use of accelerator/brake. Slamming either one when the cars weight is out of balance WILL get you in trouble and this lack of balance is not just about steering angles, inputs and weight transfer, but also bumps, crests and road cambers need to be noticed. This also forces you to learn the quirks of each car and tune them to your liking. There is potential here - maybe a slight adjustmet to "tyre compounds" gets us more control.

Just few notes from the cars i have tried. Gr.3 Toms Supra felt a lot more alive than gr3 at GT Sport in general. The wild oversteers of civic type r at the banks of high speed ring and cooking rear tires of e30 M3 evo at Northern Isle speedway really caught me off guard. I was actually lucky to acquire 911 turbo 930 from used cars and boy does it live up to its nickname in gt7. Have driven most of the time the 911 and tuned it. This has shown what massive difference setup and weight distribution makes in GT7. I do see this as a positive.

 

[Terronium-12]

Oh, wish I had seen this sooner as I just had a whinge about the physics.

The license test cars...what even is tire grip? There's no tread pattern, only perpetual ice. What do you mean the track is dry? Then why am I sliding so much?

 

[Yard_Sale]

Alright dudes, been in game for a couple hours now.... as soon as I could, jumped into my Toms Supra and did the GR.3 Lago Maggiore race a few times.

- @Scaff. This game is ACC without the really, really good FFB. If you drive realistically, the physics are actually good. If you video game your inputs.... good luck

- on that note, the FFB IS HORRENDOUS!!!!! Why the fork would PD task fanatic with making a GT specific DD wheel, and not incorporate the FFB data to make use of it!!!! I honestly think the FFB is better in GTS. Like you said in your vid, barely any feeling over kerbs and rumble strips. Disappointing really.

- the linear throttle and brake are excellent!!!!! absolute game changer for brake and throttle modulation.

- as a cockpit view only guy, I tried both head-bobble modes, settled on the default. But I will say this, the cockpit view does have more movement in the way of head movement, looking towards apexes, it just feels more lively. Its extremely subtle and nowhere near where a proper sim should be. But its a NOTED improvement.

- Here's a big surprise... in that group 3 race on hard difficulty, the AI wasn't horrible!!!!!! No weird braking, no weird lines. I even got dived on a few times!! Goes without saying that its not AC-good in the AI department, but in group 3, it was good. In the first few races of the Japanese Compact book, the AI was horrendous!!!

About to do a deep dive into all the licenses and menu pages, but my gut reaction from that GR.3 race I've ran a few times now, I'm pleasantly surprised!!



EDIT: Loving the waste gate noise out of the Tom's Supra!!!

@XSquareStickIt @Pickle_Rick74 @Vic Reign93 @QTip8329Wags

 

[DonZonda]

If PD only had a support forum or something where we could report stuff like this... It's really frustrating when your car starts to spin out suddenly for no obvious reason.

It had me literally a few times like this

 

[Veinz]

Adapt or die, especially if you are driving the Mustang GT. 😆

I went down a little dip on Trial Mountain in 3rd gear and still spun up the rear tires. Using SH tires.

 

[Ryan Dungey]

Adapt or die, especially if you are driving the Mustang GT. 😆

I went down a little dip on Trial Mountain in 3rd gear and still spun up the rear tires. Using SH tires.

Atleast there is no pedestrians for it to eat like they do in real life 👀

 

[Phoenixsui]

Alright dudes, been in game for a couple hours now.... as soon as I could, jumped into my Toms Supra and did the GR.3 Lago Maggiore race a few times.

- @Scaff. This game is ACC without the really, really good FFB. If you drive realistically, the physics are actually good. If you video game your inputs.... good luck

- on that note, the FFB IS HORRENDOUS!!!!! Why the fork would PD task fanatic with making a GT specific DD wheel, and not incorporate the FFB data to make use of it!!!! I honestly think the FFB is better in GTS. Like you said in your vid, barely any feeling over kerbs and rumble strips. Disappointing really.

- the linear throttle and brake are excellent!!!!! absolute game changer for brake and throttle modulation.

- as a cockpit view only guy, I tried both head-bobble modes, settled on the default. But I will say this, the cockpit view does have more movement in the way of head movement, looking towards apexes, it just feels more lively. Its extremely subtle and nowhere near where a proper sim should be. But its a NOTED improvement.

- Here's a big surprise... in that group 3 race on hard difficulty, the AI wasn't horrible!!!!!! No weird braking, no weird lines. I even got dived on a few times!! Goes without saying that its not AC-good in the AI department, but in group 3, it was good. In the first few races of the Japanese Compact book, the AI was horrendous!!!

About to do a deep dive into all the licenses and menu pages, but my gut reaction from that GR.3 race I've ran a few times now, I'm pleasantly surprised!!



EDIT: Loving the waste gate noise out of the Tom's Supra!!!

@XSquareStickIt @Pickle_Rick74 @Vic Reign93 @QTip8329Wags

Hm would be interested how you do in IB-1 and IB-3? Racing Cars do better then street cars. There are literally Tracks where a 5° steering input on the wheel will smash you into the next wall imediatly.

 

[Phoenixsui]

Adapt or die, especially if you are driving the Mustang GT. 😆

I went down a little dip on Trial Mountain in 3rd gear and still spun up the rear tires. Using SH tires.

I bought the 350R Mustang ingame. Its one of the best handling cars on the market in RL. But ingame its just Terror on 4 wheels ;D. Habent tuned it in power but added racing hard tires and i think i did the brakes and weight reduction.