Gran Turismo 7 takes center stage in an all-new State of Play, arriving Wednesday at 2pm Pacific:

[Imari]

And yeah just because you can make some xp with collecting cars doesn’t mean it will be the main thing in the career. How much of the trailers for GT7 shows racing scenes and how much is about car collecting? I would say let’s just wait till the game comes out

Right. Absolutely. The player level being literally called "Collector Level" doesn't mean that collecting will be a main part of it. That makes total sense. And having GT Cafe, a mod that is explicitly framed around collecting, being described by the game's producer as "ultimately the classic GT campaign mode" definitely doesn't mean that collecting is a main part of the game.

You're right, we should just wait. Definitely not enough information.

Don't worry, I'm sure even after release you'll be able to make some argument as to why car collecting isn't central to the career.

Why do people keep mentioning this as if it makes it alright? Future updates are no good if you play the game day 1, are they? Are we supposed to sit and twiddle our thumbs waiting for more content? It just seems like the go to response now whenever anyone suggests the cars/tracks aren't satisfactory and it's quite a cop out, especially when nothing is guaranteed.

The correct way to interpret those comments is that they are saying that people shouldn't buy the game day 1.

Its crazy that no one cares about the fact that the used car dealership only changes every day... With mostlikely everyone having the same cars displayed... ^^

It seems like bad design, but it's not that different from the past few iterations of the UCD. Most people hoped it would be better, but I don't think anyone is particularly surprised that they just did this again.

From the video it also looks like it's woefully small. I will not be surprised if people have trouble buying cars that are necessary to progress in the career again.

 

[Confus]

Don't we all. Sadly it's not the type of question Kaz is likely to be asked or answer if he was.

They probably just want the game to come out sooner. The current track list looks perfectly acceptable for a baseline, imo, and GT's DLC updates have always been free, anyway. Plus we get to see a few old tracks returning and those have been so revamped they may as well be new.

 

[Boxerengine4]

Ok, does anyone actually know if the AI in Gran Turismo 7 is terrible, or everyone jumping to conclusions? I mean what's challenging to one person can be easy to the next though.

 

[dacc10]

I wonder what their reason for this is.

I guess it all comes down to resources. And by this I mean, the resources (manpower) used to make Deep Forest, Daytona, Trial Mountain (am I missing anything else?) for GT7, are similar to what would be required to model any other track. Just because they were present in older games, they weren't ported over, and mostly ended up being redesigned and updated (textures for example). Even existing tracks from GTS were updated in some way. If the modeling team is doing this, they can't model new tracks at the same time. It ends up being a matter of what they choose to model.

The time they took to model Deep Forest, would be the same as modeling any other similar sized track. Who knows if they are working on another track right now.

 

[Peter.]

Why do people keep mentioning this as if it makes it alright? Future updates are no good if you play the game day 1, are they? Are we supposed to sit and twiddle our thumbs waiting for more content? It just seems like the go to response now whenever anyone suggests the cars/tracks aren't satisfactory and it's quite a cop out, especially when nothing is guaranteed.

Gran Turismo games have ALWAYS launched with brand new tracks alongside returning ones.

GT2:
Apricot Hill
Grindelwald
Laguna Seca
Midfield Raceway
Motor Sports Land
Pikes Peak
Red Rock Valley
Rome
Seattle
Smokey Mountain
Tahiti Maze
Tahiti Road

GT3:
Complex String
Monaco
Super Speedway
Swiss Alps
Tokyo R246

GT4:
Le Mans
Fuji
Infineon
Nurburgring
Suzuka
Tsukuba
Motegi
El Capitan
Citta di Aria
Costa di Amalfi
Paris
Hong Kong
New York
Seoul
Cathedral Rocks
Chamonix
Grand Canyon
Ice Arena

GT5:
Daytona
Indianapolis
Monza
Top Gear TT
Cape Ring
Eiger Nordwand
London
New Rome
Madrid
Toscana

GT6:
Brands Hatch
Goodwood
Silverstone
Willow Springs
Ascari Race Resort
Bathurst
Matterhorn

GTS:
Interlagos
Alsace
Maggiore
Broad Bean
Blue Moon Bay
Dragon Trail
Kyoto
Northern Isle
Tokyo Expressway
Colorado Springs
Fisherman's Ranch
Sardegna

GT7:
NONE

It's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed GT7 breaks this trend and promise of unspecified future updates at unspecified time doesn't null that disappointment.

Don't forget to mention there were 0 pandemics during the development of GT1-Sport. I am disappointed too, but let's not pretend it would have been easy to fly teams out to laser scan new tracks, or to even develop a new title at home, given the circumstance.

Given all the other additions we are getting on day 1, we aren't really playing GTS Spec II.

 

[Samus]

They probably just want the game to come out sooner. The current track list looks perfectly acceptable for a baseline, imo, and GT's DLC updates have always been free, anyway. Plus we get to see a few old tracks returning and those have been so revamped they may as well be new.

But what have the track artists been doing these past years? Some people suggest COVID as a reason for not getting any real tracks done but even if true, could they not have cobbled together at least one new fictional track?

Ok, does anyone actually know if the AI in Gran Turismo 7 is terrible, or everyone jumping to conclusions? I mean what's challenging to one person can be easy to the next though.

They've shown a fair amount of footage in the game, the AI is terrible in all of them. Actions speak louder than words, if they had fantastic AI to show off we'd have seen it by now.

Don't forget to mention there were 0 pandemics during the development of GT1-Sport.

Development of GT7 started almost immediately after GTS released according to Kaz, three years before the pandemic. Obviously the work of some of the track modellers was included as updates to Sport but that still gave them three years to go out and scan new tracks that they could work on in later development years.

Kaz also said that because of how his company works they weren't too badly affected by COVID.

I guess it all comes down to resources. And by this I mean, the resources (manpower) used to make Deep Forest, Daytona, Trial Mountain (am I missing anything else?) for GT7, are similar to what would be required to model any other track. Just because they were present in older games, they weren't ported over, and mostly ended up being redesigned and updated (textures for example). Even existing tracks from GTS were updated in some way. If the modeling team is doing this, they can't model new tracks at the same time. It ends up being a matter of what they choose to model.

The time they took to model Deep Forest, would be the same as modeling any other similar sized track. Who knows if they are working on another track right now.

They added 12 brand new locations to GTS at launch. Of course modelling a returning track takes just as long as a new track but subtract those four (High Speed Ring) that's still output of 8 locations fewer.

 

[dacc10]

Fine - they've spent a lot of time & resources capturing "cloud movement" ... but why didn't they spend those resources WORKING ON THE AI & PHYSICS?

I assume they have different people working on each of those things. I doubt the "cloud movement dude" is also an expert on AI or Physics.

 

[Imari]

Ok, does anyone actually know if the AI in Gran Turismo 7 is terrible, or everyone jumping to conclusions? I mean what's challenging to one person can be easy to the next though.

The first problem is that GT career modes have only had a single AI difficulty, making it impossible for it to reasonably provide a challenge to all players. The second problem is that the difficulty that they choose is insultingly easy to anyone who has played a racing game before.

There's no evidence in any of the video so far that this has changed in any meaningful way, but there could be more information still to come.

Don't forget to mention there were 0 pandemics during the development of GT1-Sport. I am disappointed too, but let's not pretend it would have been easy to fly teams out to laser scan new tracks, or to even develop a new title at home, given the circumstance.

Sure, but that doesn't stop them from making new fantasy tracks. I could totally accept no new real world tracks given the state of travel for the last couple of years, but no new tracks at all seems off. I would have thought at least one new fantasy track to serve as the iconic location for the game would be mandatory, but apparently not.

I assume they have different people working on each of those things. I doubt the "cloud movement dude" is also an expert on AI or Physics.

It's more about how they choose to hire people. At some point they choose how many artists, programmers, engineers, etc. to hire. They could have chosen not to hire someone to work on a weather system and instead hired someone to work on tyre physics. Obviously once they're hired they're more or less locked in, but that just means that resource planning needs to be done earlier.

 

[Corsa]

After a few years on PC involved mainly in racing leagues I think this is exactly what I need.
The layout looks great, very reminiscent of GT4 which is something special.
So, anyone know where I can buy a PS5?

 

[O604]

Did they manage to Beta Test this without leaks?

If so, well done testers. P.S. I hate all of you.

 

[Islaygaz]

Did they manage to Beta Test this without leaks?

If so, well done testers. P.S. I hate all of you.

Yea beta testing GT7 was so much fun!


Just kidding. I don’t think there was a beta test for GT7. From memory GTS had a beta test to do with server load or something?!

 

[Emet_PL]

Have you noticed lack of reflections on the wet tarmack in the Tokyo at rain footage? I hope it's not going to be downgared from GT Sport in that regard.
Watch from about 10:25 :

 

[Kalder]

Yea beta testing GT7 was so much fun!


Just kidding. I don’t think there was a beta test for GT7. From memory GTS had a beta test to do with server load or something?!

Ooh, a closed beta for GT7 before release for pre-ordering would be awesome (not expecting it at all though), but I guess they would be testing the same things as with the GT Sport beta, so they already have that information from the previous game.

 

[Nuschel01]

Don't assume everyone wants to play games the way you do and try to force them to do so, or be forced to be happy for things you are.

Don't twist words in my mouth around. I just feel like lots of people (not everyone) care a bit too much about AI as the game has much more to offer than racing offline and can't understand how only one bad "feature" of the game can push people so far to say the game is bad and they won't buy it.
You're free to enjoy the game as you wish and so is everyone else, nobody gets judged by me. I just voiced my opinion on some discussions here.

 

[Samus]

Don't twist words in my mouth around. I just feel like lots of people (not everyone) care a bit too much about AI as the game has much more to offer than racing offline and can't understand how only one bad "feature" of the game can push people so far to say the game is bad and they won't buy it.
You're free to enjoy the game as you wish and so is everyone else, nobody gets judged by me. I just voiced my opinion on some discussions here.

But the rest of my post literally explained why people feel that way. We all like different things and for me, I only play racing games to go racing offline. If that aspect of the game is poor, the whole game is not worth paying full price for.

For someone else they might only buy GT7 to take photos so that's all the care about. In fact I know some people have done that with GTS, never drive cars, just photograph them. Hypothetically, if they removed scapes and photo mode from GT7 I'm pretty sure that person wouldn't buy it, no matter how good the rest of it is. Because they're not interested in it.

 

[Biggles]

It's more about how they choose to hire people. At some point they choose how many artists, programmers, engineers, etc. to hire. They could have chosen not to hire someone to work on a weather system and instead hired someone to work on tyre physics. Obviously once they're hired they're more or less locked in, but that just means that resource planning needs to be done earlier.

Exactly! It's what you choose to prioritize. I barely played GTSport at all, preferring to be in Asseto Corsa or Pcars2. Sure GTSport LOOKS nice, but the driving is so bland & unconvincing. It's not just really weak AI, it's the whole driving physics equation. I'm afraid that GT7 is just going to be more of the same ... maybe a lot more, but still the same.

 

[Nielsen]

The ability to select “AI cars of choice” in Custom Race hopefully works on a car by car basis and not limited to preset filters like class and PP.

 

[NightHawkFur]

Nice 4K liveries they got there on the RedBulls...

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Gran Turismo is not a racing game, it's an automotive magazine with driving as one of its elements, reminiscent of the very first NFS games. That's why most people felt alienated by GTS, which was closer to a pure racing game at the beginning.

Assetto Corsa is not as beautiful and PC2 is not as accessible. Neither are they as carefully made as GT. They can't replace Gran Turismo at what Gran Turismo does best.

Suffice to say, hardcore sim racers are not the target demographic of Gran Turismo. The competition element in GT was a more recent development with the advent of online gaming and the GT Academy.

I expect many GTS-centric channels to become quite disappointed with how GT7 develops, because this game deviates from the core GTS experience to venture back into casual territory.

 

[Dave A]

Don't twist words in my mouth around. I just feel like lots of people (not everyone) care a bit too much about AI as the game has much more to offer than racing offline and can't understand how only one bad "feature" of the game can push people so far to say the game is bad and they won't buy it.
You're free to enjoy the game as you wish and so is everyone else, nobody gets judged by me. I just voiced my opinion on some discussions here.

Because if I have no real interest in racing online (which I don't) and the game is being touted as a return to the classic GT expeirence therefore suposedly caters fully to offline play why shouldn't I call it bad if the AI, which is one of the biggest factors of making offline racing enjoyable, is poor?

 

[JDMKING13]

Gran Turismo is not a racing game, it's an automotive magazine with driving as one of its elements, reminiscent of the very first NFS games. That's why most people felt alienated by GTS, which was closer to a pure racing game at the beginning.

Assetto Corsa is not as beautiful and PC2 is not as accessible. Neither are they as carefully made as GT. They can't replace Gran Turismo at what Gran Turismo does best.

Suffice to say, hardcore sim racers are not the target demographic of Gran Turismo. The competition element in GT was a more recent development with the advent of online gaming and the GT Academy.

I expect many GTS-centric channels to become quite disappointed with how GT7 develops, because this game deviates from the core GTS experience to venture back into casual territory.

I agree with everything you said, but I think the GTS experience will still be within GT7. I feel as it will be your normal GT game but with even better racing than GTS… the weather effect alone in my opinion already makes for better racing than GTS.

 

[Samus]

Gran Turismo is not a racing game

Funny that, the people who made it make an awful lot of references to racing in their non-racing game.

‘World Circuits,’ where tracks around the world can be visited to be raced on​

The ‘World Circuits’ is a location where players will have access to the various tracks included in GT7. From here they can visit various tracks and take part in races and championships hosted there, as well as other activities. There is a ‘Circuit Experience’ focused on learning all the sectors of a track, as well as ‘Custom Race’ where weather conditions, time of the day, number of laps, and rival cars can be defined freely.

There are lots of features for enjoying races with other players as well.

It's amazing the gymnastics people will go through to defend PD when PD themselves don't even do it. PD promote this and all Gran Turismo games as racing games.

 

[Tired Tyres]

This "GT is a car collecting game " is a lame excuse for a developer that is stuck in the 90s. There is zero reason they cant actually make a good game around that too.

Totally disagree. If PD was stuck in the 90's then we would have a GT2,3 or 4 GT-mode on top of what has been revealed yesterday. That would make this an 11/10 game rather than potentially a race game with no actual racing in it like GT6 in which case it would be 7/10 at best.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Cancellation

 

[todally_lit]

So, anyone know where I can buy a PS5?

I signed up with PlayStation where they prioritize PlayStation members and probably look at your usage. It took a few months and you only get a days notice to hit a 2hr window (I missed the first one they sent and had to wait a couple months more - DOH!!).

That being said, my plan was to play GT7 on my PS4 Pro until PS5 became widely available, so acquiring a PS5 is just a bonus. I think the game experience will be similar on PS4 pro and PS5 - just PS5 will support higher resolution and ray tracing. Keep in mind PS5 is 10Tflop machine, and PS4 Pro is 4.2Tflop - so just about 2x compute power - and PS4 at 1.8Tflop at <20% of PS5 compute power may have further graphics settings simplifications.

------------------------

I'm excited about GT7 - weather looks amazing and will add variety and unpredictability to the game. Car performance will vary with weather!! ... probably means that atmospheric pressure is modeled and maybe also means car performance would vary on circuits at high altitudes or with large elevation changes (Nurb?) Impressed. The shots of cars going through puddles was pretty neat too - I hope it means that hydroplaning effects are modeled as well and that grip on a wet surface will vary based on tire tread depth (meaning that as tires wear, tread depth decreases resulting in hydroplaning above some water depth)

I'm bummed there was no talk of VR but I guess we'll have to wait till PSVR2 is announced.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Agreed. I think Gran Turismo is one of the first games for me that gave distinction to racing games Vs driving games.

One of my biggest regrets in life is getting into GT as late as I did.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Gran Turismo is not a racing game, it's an automotive magazine with driving as one of its elements,

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Gran Turismo bought the Best Motoring experience to the people...

 

[NotThePrez]

I just feel like lots of people (not everyone) care a bit too much about AI as the game has much more to offer than racing offline and can't understand how only one bad "feature" of the game can push people so far to say the game is bad and they won't buy it.

People care about AI becuase Gran Turismo is, well a racing game series. Yeah, there's going to be plenty of other offerings within GT7, but for the average consumer the main draw is that its a racing game first and foremost. If the AI sucks (which all evidence so far seems to indicate as much) then the racing is going to suck, and if you're someone who just wants to race in single player (which I'd say is the main thing GT was known for before it started focusing on car collecting and photography), then that's going to make GT7 seem quite unappealing (not helped by the game being always online just to save your single-player progress).

It's especially problematic because Gran Turismo no longer exists in its own bubble like it used to over a decade ago. The racing genre as a whole has made some significant strides since the days of GT4, and several games have gotten to a point where, while they may not have a total package on the level of GT, they have been able to match, or even beat GT in one or more categories. For a lot of the people who eat up those games (myself included), that also means that what we want out of a racing title has changed over time. Whether Kaz wants to admit it or not, Gran Turismo has significant competition now, but the main crux of the game, the racing, looks like it's still significantly lagging behind its rivals.

If I want to play a catch-the-rabbit, AI-sandbagging-itself style of racing, I'll play one of the older GT titles in my collection, rather than plop down the cash for GT7 and a PS5 system. I'd honestly argue that GT2 produces better racing than the newer titles, and the AI in that game was pretty barebones, and had a tendency to cheat quite a bit.

 

[O604]

Funny that, the people who made it make an awful lot of references to racing in their non-racing game.



It's amazing the gymnastics people will go through to defend PD when PD themselves don't even do it. PD promote this and all Gran Turismo games as racing games.

Not gymnastics.

"There are lots of features for enjoying races with other players as well."

Implies it's secondary. As opposed to GTS with Sports Mode in the name.

PD continues to use "The Real Driving Simulator" to promote itself. I've actually never heard the term "sim-racing" used in any ad.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Funny that, the people who made it make an awful lot of references to racing in their non-racing game.



It's amazing the gymnastics people will go through to defend PD when PD themselves don't even do it. PD promote this and all Gran Turismo games as racing games.

I don't get you. If I was defending PD, I'd be rolling with their PR, not writing something completely different from what they said.

If it satisfies you, I also thought the lower events in GTS' GT League were a snoozefest.