Gran Turismo 7 takes center stage in an all-new State of Play, arriving Wednesday at 2pm Pacific:

  • Thread starter GlamFM
  • 1,381 comments
  • 147,247 views
I find it funny how some people seem to believe that GT is not a racing game, that it is a driving game, an automotive encyclopedia or whatever. Yeah, it can be. The issue is, that 99% of the gaming press and most of the gaming public is going to call GT a racing game because that is what its genre is. The hair splitting definitions come from turbo nerds like us on this forum.

This doesn't get into the fact that all those secondary aspects that Kaz likes to trot out as game changing ways to play...ultimately still revolve around racing. You want the cars to take photos of, or to make liveries of? You're going to be racing. There is simply no way around it. And it is in that actual moment to moment racing where GT has failed, time and time again, specifically regarding AI but also general gameplay loops. And as long as the core hasn't really changed, then Kaz and people here can use all the flowery descriptors they want to elevate GT to a higher art then 'racing game'...but it's still ultimately a racing game to everyone else, it is still racing to do half of what the game also lines out for you. And if the general racing is bad and hasn't changed for most of the series' modern history, then what is the point?
If someone was to be technical, without buying in game cars , with real money, a player doesn't have to race. They can drive leisurely around, in time trial, to complete their daily mileage. ;)
 
Last edited:
Ok, Cars and Racing...... I concede that.

I spent hours golding licences, and hours grinding to get the RUF.

The racing is easy, over tune your car or get a top PP machine....walk away. It was a different game once you tried to compete without diving up the inside every corner.

I am not sure what people expect of AI? It has a fu&* tonne of issues but either you are dicing in the pack and showing restraint or you are way out front. Its the same with RFactor, AC and others.

You accept they make mistakes or you dont.
You're not sure what people expect of the Ai? Than you haven't been reading the things you're responding to. People want better Ai, that shouldn't be out of the question to expect as much either.

Everyone has accepted it, don't know what that has to do with wanting it to be better and talking about it as such.

If someone was to be technical, without buying in game cars , with real money, a player doesn't have to race. They can drive leisurely around, in time trial, to complete their daily mileage. ;)
Time Trial's are still races, no matter how slow you go. :P
 
If someone was to be technical, without buying in game cars , with real money, a player doesn't have to race. They can drive leisurely around, in time trial, to complete their daily mileage. ;)
Good luck getting any top tier car that way, the odds are massively stacked against you.

GT has, unfortunately, become a title in which to obtain a resonable car collection you need to grind races.
 
I'm not sold yet for what I've seen so far of this iteration of the game. And that is a strange feeling for me. Even with Gt Sport all the info we had over the years till release, the graphics improvements, the new cars and tracks etc ..got me excited.

I expect more info in the upcoming weeks because on that I will decide either to buy a PS5 or if I'll stick with the PS4 Pro.

One thing I really noticed is that we're a getting the same cars over and over again. I mean with each game, they left some cars out that were already in the previous because they have to improve the quality of them (in GT5 and 6 we had a lot because you know standard cars). So with DLC we get a lot of old known friends from past games.

As many others have been saying, it looks like their trying make the game appeal to a new audience again. In my opinion for those who came from GT Sport as me, I see not enough new content (mostly refering to cars and tracks). So I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
Last edited:
I’m genuinely concerned that GT7 could have one of the worst campaigns in the series to date. I saw no indication of any structure or progression, it almost seemed like another redo of GTS’s GT League, where every event is available from the start (or rather 3 easy level thresholds to make them available) and no specific direction. Maybe the collector level/Cafe stuff will somewhat aid this, but what I saw doesn’t convince me it’ll be enough.

To get this out of the way, GT needs (and has needed) difficulty settings in all levels of it’s campaign, or at minimum an “expert” mode to unlock after completing the original event.

GT5 was fairly unbalanced mid-late game, but the early-middle point of the game was pretty good. You had options of doing licenses, entering the first one or two A Spec events, and/or doing special events to build XP and unlock stuff. Golding every single license test would get you to (I believe) level 4 or 5, unlocking every beginner event and I think some of the amateur series, all without needing to even buy a car. Plus it’d gift you around 15 cars for doing so IIRC. So you could buy something from the UCD and climb the A-Spec ladder normally, but alternatively you could also do some license tests, get a couple free cars and levels, immediately hop in the special events and get enough credits and XP to get a mid-tier sports car, or mod one of your gift cars, and go into the amateur series. The first events of the first 3 special events were unlocked by A spec level 4 (Kart @1, NASCAR @2, TG @4), so it was very possible to amass a close-to-6 figure credit balance before even needing to buy your first car. You had the option to skip events you weren’t very interested in or didn’t want to buy a specific car for specific entry requirements, and you could climb through A-Spec this way until around maybe late in the professional series. At that point you had to start clearing the incomplete events, and that could get you a fair way into the Expert series. It was around level 20 where the balance got off and you had to start repeating/grinding events or squeeze out golds in the harder special events to get to the upper extreme and later-unlocked endurance series events.

In that early-mid game there was excellent player agency allowing you to prioritize content that interested you or catered to the car or cars you liked. Even where GT5 did good though it was too small for the amount of content it had, and there should’ve been even more events in the upper series utilizing more of the car list. There were hardly any (if any) events with harder difficulty that utilized slower cars, and a lot of missed opportunities with brand or model-specific events.

GT6 severely regressed with its structure to the point that the campaign was essentially a glorified mobile game - quite literally angry birds but extrapolated onto a GT context. This time you were not only forced to start the game by buying a car, but buying specifically the Honda Fit. You were forced to complete the licenses to unlock every stage of the career, and to unlock the licenses you had to earn enough “stars” from each stage. You were forced to spend time in each stage of the career rather than progressing how you wanted, and special events had little to no impact on anything else. There were more events but less agency, and it felt like you were grinding just to get through it all because you didn’t have much choice of what you could do. GT5 made the licenses and specials optional, and all of them would assist you to some level to getting through more campaign if you wanted to. GT6 regularly forced you out of the path you wanted to travel, and any extra stuff (Specials and Seasonals) didn’t help you move through other parts of the game or get anywhere closer to where you wanted to go aside from giving credits or cars that might be more useful in other events. Races were often repeated but slightly longer in the higher campaign tiers, and yet endurance racing was basically gone, with nearly no events being more than 30 minutes (ironically even in the “endurance” series). On top of this PD produced the worst AI they had to date, literally programmed to slow down on the last lap and give up as you approached. It just wasn’t fun.

GTS was designed as a focus title, funneling players into it’s esports modes, so it didn’t bother me as much that it’s campaign was slim, decentralized, and without goals or progression. It launched with licenses, missions, and circuit experience, all of which got you vaguely familiar with the core concepts to get you into Sport mode. Problem was once you completed all that there wasn’t much else to do aside from custom races. The likes of which, being fair, was a significant step up from any previous GT game, but didn’t give you enough tools to do anything/everything you wanted, nor was there a skeleton for discovery of what could be interesting for newer/younger players. So League was kind of a necessity to give something else to do when you’d had enough of online racing. Plus, it really didn’t help that 90% of sport mode was just cars in the various racing categories or one-make road cars. PD predominantly added road cars post launch but hardly used them to any dramatic effect in the core of the game.

GT5 and 6 were essentially carried by the end-game content, which was online lobbies, offline time trials, photo mode, weekly/bi-weekly seasonals, or (if you could stomach it) arcade mode (it was better with course maker, but that was pretty limited in 5 and it didn’t live very long in 6). All of this to entertain the idea of building your personalized garage from the 1000+ list of cars. The problem is that when the campaign doesn’t do enough to get you enticed and/or get you started there’s not much desire for even pushing for the end game loop.

From the showcase I still wasn’t able to identify what GT7s campaign even is, it almost seems like it starts you in this “endgame” loop with minor guidance. I can’t identify any particular progression system that relates to an actual campaign or a true goal for you to complete like there has been in any previous main-line GT game, and that kind of concerns me.

To date, PD has had the all the content already in their game available to do so even in launch-spec GT Sport but never implemented these basic ideas into a campaign:

  • Difficulty settings/sliders for every event increasing payout/xp/progression.
  • Slow/old/road cars at the highest difficulty/tier of the campaign.
  • Having AI enter with tuned or modified cars - you always race against either stock road cars, or existing tuning house cars like spoon/blitz/RE amemiya or base rally/touring/drift/race cars.

On top of this there looks to be little to no change in GT’s age-old format of starting in last and blasting through a 10-24 pack of cars by the end of a few laps. The only time I’ve had to fight GT AI is when I took dramatically underpowered cars into championships (70s lotus in British lightweights, Daihatsu Midget in pickup truck challenge), the simple fact is that GT’s AI isn’t very good and the game is worse off for it. It doesn’t matter what % of the player base does find it challenging or “good enough”, the state it’s been in isn’t good racing and doesn’t cater to the full audience it should, certainly not all of the long-time fans. It actively contributes to a worse single player experience, and this is multiplied when mixed with a weak campaign.

The good news is there appears to be plenty of player agency, but I can’t really see how far that goes with everything so open ended and (seemingly) unnecessary to complete. It seems like the direction will be as strong as what the Cafe offers, but this presentation didn’t (to me) make it seem like it is very strong, directation wise, anyways.

What I really think GT’s campaign could use is a more “tree-like” (I know oh god oh no not the trees) structure, that gives players options for vertical or horizontal progression based on what they want to do. I’m basing this off of an extremely primitive skeletal idea NFS Hot Pursuit 2 had in it’s campaigns, where you could take the event on the main path that would immediately take you down to the next tier to the events with faster cars and more difficult AI/cops, or you could take the branched event, which wouldn’t unlock any other races, but would give dramatically higher payouts that you could use to unlock more single/custom race content.

73FEDA22-BCB3-468C-BE14-AC986B4D3F61.jpeg


Extrapolating and applying this into a bigger GT-sized context, you could start with the age-old short Sunday/FF/Kei car cups, completing the likes of which would immediately unlock a bunch of other bigger/longer grassroots types events, and a new short higher-tier/higher performance event. Taking that next tier wouldn’t give that much more of a payout, but would grant significantly more XP, and would provide a path to unlock and launch you vertically up the performance/racing categories. Sticking horizontal with the grassroots tier would give you races with more higher payouts, allowing you to buy better cars and parts for that level of racing and potentially apply them in higher tiers later on. So all races give cash and XP, but you can choose which is more important based on what you like. You quickly push up to the fastest cars, or you can hang out in a preferred spot for a while and build up your garage with your favorite kinds of cars and categories and also actually use them for the campaign. Or you can be a completionist and do everything mostly at once.

PD would have the option (as they always have) of providing difficulty options/sliders for everything, or if they wanted to stay on this traditional pre-set difficulty route, could make the difficulty ramp up only on the horizontal paths, with harder AI and longer races, allowing the AI to mod their cars, maybe even extending as far as having several mega championships or endurance events at every campaign/performance tier. I.e, the end game for the grassroots tier could be something like lemons endurance, or some made up very-gran-turismo international 10-race championship for lightly tuned grocery getters. This is all in the first tier, all of the tiers above could have similar if not greater depth, and if balanced correctly, it’d only take one or two events of 1-3 races to move up to the next tier. No stranding or grinding in one particular spot in the game, and spending extra time in a lower tier could get you better set up for the next tier. Campaign Tiers could look something like:

  • Grassroots (compact/commuter cars)
  • Performance (tuned cars and low range sports cars)
  • Sports (mid-high range sports cars)
  • Super (super cars/exotics and heavily modified cars)
  • Cup (Smaller/slower Cup cars ala Lupo/Micra cups of old, race-modified cars if the functionality is available)
  • Touring (GT4 and other lower categories/one-make classes, like the Megane Trophy)
  • Touring Extreme (GT3-GT2, SGT, DTM, NASCAR, depending on what content and licensing is available and in the game)
  • Hyper (GT1, prototypes, hypercars, maybe race-modded supercars if that functionality is available)
  • Formula (open wheelers, redbull X cars)

All of what I just listed is can be done just by building the UI to do so. The cars, tracks, and now tuning options are there. This is one of the least difficult aspects of game design and they’re not doing anything with it. Funnily enough it’s also something they could expand in the exact same way they did with GT League as more cars and tracks showed up.

I don’t think anything was ever going to stop me from getting this game on day one, but man, this lack of evolution and near-regression really bums me out.
 
Last edited:
I'm so confused because every time someone dares point out a problem with the physics in a GT game the tagline is suddenly just marketing material to not take so seriously.
Oh god yeah. Or even any sort of general problem with the game that could be easily fixed if Polyphony actually cared to do so instead of continuing to peddle nostalgia. Apparently the tagline that the series has made no attempt to distance itself from simply doesn't matter anymore. Wonder why that is.

What I really think GT’s campaign could use is a more “tree-like” (I know oh god oh no not the trees) structure, that gives players options for vertical or horizontal progression based on what they want to do. I’m basing this off of an extremely primitive skeletal idea NFS Hot Pursuit 2 had in it’s campaigns, where you could take the event on the main path that would immediately take you down to the next tier to the events with faster cars and more difficult AI/cops, or you could take the branched event, which wouldn’t unlock any other races, but would give dramatically higher payouts that you could use to unlock more single/custom race content.

73FEDA22-BCB3-468C-BE14-AC986B4D3F61.jpeg


Extrapolating and applying this into a bigger GT-sized context, you could start with the age-old short Sunday/FF/Kei car cups, completing the likes of which would immediately unlock a bunch of other bigger/longer grassroots types events, and a new short higher-tier/higher performance event. Taking that next tier wouldn’t give that much more of a payout, but would grant significantly more XP, and would provide a path to unlock and launch you vertically up the performance/racing categories. Sticking horizontal with the grassroots tier would give you races with more higher payouts, allowing you to buy better cars and parts for that level of racing and potentially apply then in higher tiers later on. So all races give cash and XP, but you can choose which is more important based on what you like. You quickly push up to the fastest cars, or you can hang out in a preferred spot for a while and build up your garage with your favorite kinds of cars and categories and also actually use them for the campaign. Or you can be a completionist and do everything mostly at once.
A tree based campaign would certainly be a nice way of going about things, especially if it offered multiple paths. There you can get your standard GT tournaments and one off events in a much better way then simply rifling through them one by one.
 
:odd:

The game's not about racing, it's about winning races!
Lol, some serious delusion going on here. The only reason you would argue it's not a racing game first and foremost is if you barely beat the shoddy AI right now and are just using a coping mechanism. What next? FIFA isn't a football game, it's a card collection one? Jesus

I'm so confused because every time someone dares point out a problem with the physics in a GT game the tagline is suddenly just marketing material to not take so seriously.
It's insane. The people who want it to be the ultimate virtual car experience are the one's that need to go and not the one's making excuses for developers with huge resources and time, that overpromise everytime.

(I'm not saying anyone needs to go, just that the people who want the series to evolve have more solid ground to stand on, imo obviously)
 
I’m genuinely concerned that GT7 could have one of the worst campaigns in the series to date. I saw no indication of any structure or progression, it almost seemed like another redo of GTS’s GT League, where every event is available from the start (or rather 3 easy level thresholds to make them available) and no specific direction. Maybe the collector level/Cafe stuff will somewhat aid this, but what I saw doesn’t convince me it’ll be enough.

To get this out of the way, GT needs (and has needed) difficulty settings in all levels of it’s campaign, or at minimum an “expert” mode to unlock after completing the original event.

GT5 was fairly unbalanced mid-late game, but the early-middle point of the game was pretty good. You had options of doing licenses, entering the first one or two A Spec events, and/or doing special events to build XP and unlock stuff. Golding every single license test would get you to (I believe) level 4 or 5, unlocking every beginner event and I think some of the amateur series, all without needing to even buy a car. Plus it’d gift you around 15 cars for doing so IIRC. So you could buy something from the UCD and climb the A-Spec ladder normally, but alternatively you could also do some license tests, get a couple free cars and levels, immediately hop in the special events and get enough credits and XP to get a mid-tier sports car, or mod one of your gift cars, and go into the amateur series. The first events of the first 3 special events were unlocked by A spec level 4 (Kart @1, NASCAR @2, TG @4), so it was very possible to amass a close-to-6 figure credit balance before even needing to buy your first car. You had the option to skip events you weren’t very interested in or didn’t want to buy a new car for specific entry requirements, and you could climb through A-Spec this way until around maybe late in the professional series. At that point you had to start clearing the incomplete events, and that could get you a fair way into the Expert series. It was around level 20 where the balance got off and you had to start repeating/grinding events or squeeze out golds in the harder special events to get to the upper extreme and later-unlocked endurance series events.

In that early-mid game there was excellent player agency allowing you to prioritize content that interested you or catered to the car or cars you liked. Even where GT5 did good though it was too small for the amount of content it had, and there should’ve been even more events in the upper series utilizing more of the car list. There were hardly any (if any) events with harder difficulty that utilized slower cars, and a lot of missed opportunities with brand or model-specific events.

GT6 severely regressed with its structure structure to the point that the campaign was essentially a glorified mobile game - quite literally angry birds but extrapolated onto a GT context. This time you were not only forced to start the game by buying a car, but buying specifically the Honda Fit. You were forced to complete the licenses to unlock every stage of the career, and to unlock the licenses you had to earn enough “stars” from each stage. You were forced to spend time in each stage of the career rather than progressing how you wanted, and special events had little to no impact on anything else. There were more events but less agency, and it felt like you were grinding just to get through it all because you didn’t have much choice of what you could do. GT5 made the licenses and specials optional, and all of them would assist you to some level to getting through more campaign if you wanted to. GT6 regularly forced you out of the path you wanted to travel, and any extra stuff (Specials and Seasonals) didn’t help you move through other parts of the game or get anywhere closer to where you wanted to go aside from giving credits or cars that might be more useful in other events. Races were often repeated but slightly longer in the higher campaign tiers, and yet endurance racing was basically gone, with nearly no events being more than 30 minutes (ironically even in the “endurance” series). On top of this PD produced the worst AI they had to date, literally programmed to slow down on the last lap and give up as you approached. It just wasn’t fun.

GTS was designed as a focus title, funneling players into it’s esports modes, so it didn’t bother me as much that it’s campaign was slim, decentralized, and without goals or progression. It launched with licenses, missions, and circuit experience, all of which got you vaguely familiar with the core concepts to get you into Sport mode. Problem was once you completed all that there wasn’t much else to do aside from custom races. The likes of which, being fair, was a significant step up from any previous GT game, but didn’t give you enough tools to do anything/everything you wanted, nor was there a skeleton for discovery of what could be interesting for newer/younger players. So League was kind of a necessity to give something else to do when you’d had enough of online racing. Plus, it really didn’t help that 90% of sport mode was just cars in the various racing categories or one-make road cars. PD predominantly added road cars post launch but hardly used them to any dramatic effect in the core of the game.

GT5 and 6 were essentially carried by the end-game content, which was online lobbies, offline time trials, photo mode, weekly/bi-weekly seasonals, or (if you could stomach it) arcade mode (it was better with course maker, but that was pretty limited in 5 and it didn’t live very long in 6). All of this to entertain the idea of building your personalized garage from the 1000+ list of cars. The problem is that when the campaign doesn’t do enough to get you enticed and/or get you started there’s not much desire for even pushing for the end game loop.

From the showcase I still wasn’t able to identify what GT7s campaign even is, it almost seems like it starts you in this “endgame” loop with minor guidance. I can’t identify any particular progression system that relates to an actual campaign or a true goal for you to complete like there has been in any previous main-line GT game, and that kind of concerns me.

To date, PD has had the all the content already in their game available to do so even in launch-spec GT Sport but never implemented these basic ideas into a campaign:

  • Difficulty settings/sliders for every event increasing payout/xp/progression.
  • Slow/old/road cars at the highest difficulty/tier of the campaign.
  • Having AI enter with tuned or modified cars - you always race against either stock road cars, or existing tuning house cars like spoon/blitz/RE amemiya or base rally/touring/drift/race cars.

On top of this there looks to be little to no change in GT’s age-old format of starting in last and blasting through a 10-24 pack of cars by the end of a few laps. The only time I’ve had to fight GT AI is when I took dramatically underpowered cars into championships (70s lotus in British lightweights, Daihatsu Midget in pickup truck challenge), the simple fact is that GT’s AI isn’t very good and the game is worse off for it. It doesn’t matter what % of the player base does find it challenging or “good enough”, the state it’s been in isn’t good racing and doesn’t cater to the full audience it should, certainly not all of the long-time fans. It actively contributes to a worse single player experience, and this is multiplied when mixed with a weak campaign.

The good news is there appears to be plenty of player agency, but I can’t really see how far that goes with everything so open ended and (seemingly) unnecessary to complete. It seems like the direction will be as strong as what the Cafe offers, but this presentation didn’t (to me) make it seem like it is very strong, directation wise, anyways.

What I really think GT’s campaign could use is a more “tree-like” (I know oh god oh no not the trees) structure, that gives players options for vertical or horizontal progression based on what they want to do. I’m basing this off of an extremely primitive skeletal idea NFS Hot Pursuit 2 had in it’s campaigns, where you could take the event on the main path that would immediately take you down to the next tier to the events with faster cars and more difficult AI/cops, or you could take the branched event, which wouldn’t unlock any other races, but would give dramatically higher payouts that you could use to unlock more single/custom race content.

View attachment 1111195

Extrapolating and applying this into a bigger GT-sized context, you could start with the age-old short Sunday/FF/Kei car cups, completing the likes of which would immediately unlock a bunch of other bigger/longer grassroots types events, and a new short higher-tier/higher performance event. Taking that next tier wouldn’t give that much more of a payout, but would grant significantly more XP, and would provide a path to unlock and launch you vertically up the performance/racing categories. Sticking horizontal with the grassroots tier would give you races with more higher payouts, allowing you to buy better cars and parts for that level of racing and potentially apply then in higher tiers later on. So all races give cash and XP, but you can choose which is more important based on what you like. You quickly push up to the fastest cars, or you can hang out in a preferred spot for a while and build up your garage with your favorite kinds of cars and categories and also actually use them for the campaign. Or you can be a completionist and do everything mostly at once.

PD would have the option (as they always have) of providing difficulty options/sliders for everything, or if they wanted to stay on this traditional pre-set difficulty route, could make the difficulty ramp up only on the horizontal paths, with harder AI and longer races, allowing the AI to mod their cars, maybe even extending as far as having several mega championships or endurance events at every campaign/performance tier. I.e, the end game for the grassroots tier could be something like lemons endurance, or some made up very-gran -turismo international 10-race championship for lightly tuned grocery getters. This is all in the first tier, all of the tiers above could have similar if not greater depth, and if balanced correctly, it’d only take one or two events of 1-3 races to move up to the next tier. No stranding or grinding in one particular spot in the game, and spending extra time in a lower tier could get you better set up for the next tier. Campaign Tiers could look something like:

  • Grassroots (compact/commuter cars)
  • Performance (tuned cars and low range sports cars)
  • Sports (mid-high range sports cars)
  • Super (super cars/exotics and heavily modified cars)
  • Cup (Smaller/slower Cup cars ala Lupo/Micra cups of old, race-modified cars if the functionality is available)
  • Touring (GT4 and other lower categories/one-make classes, like the Megane Trophy)
  • Touring Extreme (GT3-GT2, SGT, DTM, NASCAR, depending on what content and licensing is available and in the game)
  • Hyper (GT1, prototypes, hypercars, maybe race-modded supercars if that functionality is available)
  • Formula (open wheelers, redbull X cars)

All of what I just listed is can be done just by building the UI to do so. The cars, tracks, and now tuning options are there. This is one of the least difficult aspects of game design and they’re not doing anything with it. Funnily enough it’s also something they could expand in the exact same way they did with GT League as more cars and tracks showed up.

I don’t think anything was ever going to stop me from getting this game on day one, but man, this lack of evolution and near-regression really bums me out.
Really well said. The campaign should absolutely have some direction or at the least, a dedicated area to guide you. Otherwise it just feels like a mess of one track races with variation.
 
Online, social gaming is the best thing since sliced bread for some people. They love the interaction with other humans, they love the competition. I do not. I'm not a social gamer at all, in any genre. I don't play online, I don't want to play online. Gaming for me is an escape from the real world and real people, something I have always enjoyed doing alone and always will. Again, all wired differently. I'm obviously not going to say anyone is wrong for not caring about single player racing and preferring online, that's their preference. Good for them/you. It's not my preference, and no amount of encouragement is going to change that. I know what online gaming entails.
Funny how it works. I gravitated to the world of online GTS because I was looking for an asocial experience. A lot of online games require a mic, teamwork, and befriending people in order to play as a team and build chemistry. There are more casual games, of course, but those don't usually interest me.

To me, Sport Mode is the opposite of that but at least I am racing against actual people which makes it exciting and real to me.

But I personally would have appreciated a competent AI to race against because I'm not always down to race online. I'm tired almost all the time and for me, online racing requires a nap, a coffee, some green PEDs, if you catch my meaning, as well as time.
 
Could this not be YT compression at work? I hope so...
It likely wasn't compression or else it would be the same overall on everything. This one stood out, though I'm betting it will get addressed. Seems like the only one that stood out like that for some reason.
 
I'm wondering if people claiming it's not a racing game are just trolling at this point. I guess F1 2021 isn't a racing game because racing is just something you can do in it.
Not trolling. But Gran Turismo has always been about the cars, the customization and the collecting as much as it has been about driving, which includes, but is not limited to, racing. Time trials, license tests and drift challenges don't involve racing. And in recent years with scapes, livery editor, etc. the game became far more diverse.

The whole reason why this became an argument is because Samus probably thought I was justifying the AI being slow by not calling GT a "racing game". Which is wrong, because I don't like how slow the AI is either. It's boring and some of the challenges are borderline pathetic. I understand there are people who love cars but aren't fast, but giving everyone a gold medal isn't the way to reward their effort.

There's a recent trend in gaming where people have been asking for easy/story/tourist modes in every game because they think everyone should be able to enjoy every game. And I disagree with this. Every product has a purpose and a target customer. It's not right for me to tell Miyazaki to add easy mode to Dark Souls or Sekiro, because the difficulty is what sets the product apart.

On the other hand, Kaz's intention with the Gran Turismo franchise is to guide the enthusiast from the very beginning to the top. Baby steps, then walking, then finally running. Unfortunately, it creates problems, because it doesn't make sense for seasoned players to do easy races. It's just not fun. A difficulty setting in career mode could mend this. But for some reason he doesn't do it, when even FM7 lets you run long races on Unbeatable. I ran full length IndyCars in Pro mode in FM7 (not Unbeatable because they cheat), and it was fun.
 
I'm so confused because every time someone dares point out a problem with the physics in a GT game the tagline is suddenly just marketing material to not take so seriously.

The Real = Marketing gibberish
Driving Simulator = Undeniable
 
Not trolling. But Gran Turismo has always been about the cars, the customization and the collecting as much as it has been about driving, which includes, but is not limited to, racing. Time trials, license tests and drift challenges don't involve racing. And in recent years with scapes, livery editor, etc. the game became far more diverse.

The whole reason why this became an argument is because Samus probably thought I was justifying the AI being slow by not calling GT a "racing game". Which is wrong, because I don't like how slow the AI is either. It's boring and some of the challenges are borderline pathetic. I understand there are people who love cars but aren't fast, but giving everyone a gold medal isn't the way to reward their effort.

There's a recent trend in gaming where people have been asking for easy/story/tourist modes in every game because they think everyone should be able to enjoy every game. And I disagree with this. Every product has a purpose and a target customer. It's not right for me to tell Miyazaki to add easy mode to Dark Souls or Sekiro, because the difficulty is what sets the product apart.

On the other hand, Kaz's intention with the Gran Turismo franchise is to guide the enthusiast from the very beginning to the top. Baby steps, then walking, then finally running. Unfortunately, it creates problems, because it doesn't make sense for seasoned players to do easy races. It's just not fun. A difficulty setting in career mode could mend this. But for some reason he doesn't do it, when even FM7 lets you run long races on Unbeatable. I ran full length IndyCars in Pro mode in FM7 (not Unbeatable because they cheat), and it was fun.
Is it a racing game yes or no? Simple question, simple answer, yes or no.
 
Not trolling. But Gran Turismo has always been about the cars, the customization and the collecting as much as it has been about driving, which includes, but is not limited to, racing. Time trials, license tests and drift challenges don't involve racing. And in recent years with scapes, livery editor, etc. the game became far more diverse.
Oh, those license tests you take to show you understand, at the very least, the basics of racing your car? That they added on things over the years to do besides racing doesn't mean it's not a racing game first and foremost.

The Real = Marketing gibberish
Driving Simulator = Undeniable
Well, that's extremely selective. The whole line is marketing gibberish.
 
Last edited:
Right. Absolutely. The player level being literally called "Collector Level" doesn't mean that collecting will be a main part of it. That makes total sense. And having GT Cafe, a mod that is explicitly framed around collecting, being described by the game's producer as "ultimately the classic GT campaign mode" definitely doesn't mean that collecting is a main part of the game.

You're right, we should just wait. Definitely not enough information. :rolleyes:

Don't worry, I'm sure even after release you'll be able to make some argument as to why car collecting isn't central to the career.

The correct way to interpret those comments is that they are saying that people shouldn't buy the game day 1.

It seems like bad design, but it's not that different from the past few iterations of the UCD. Most people hoped it would be better, but I don't think anyone is particularly surprised that they just did this again.

From the video it also looks like it's woefully small. I will not be surprised if people have trouble buying cars that are necessary to progress in the career again.
Yeah „a“ main part as you said, not THE main part. They implemented it direct into the career mode because it’s important to them, but it’s still just collecting, nothing more nothing less. What do you expect now, that you spend hours and hours in the menu in a row just collecting cars and never get to race sone ****? You will still be racing most of the time if that is what you want. You are just imagining some unreasonable stuff, they just talk a lot about this because it’s a new feature with the gt cafe, this makes it seem like it’s present all the time and everything revolves around collecting. No everything will, like in any GT before it, revolve around racing. In the end I think it’s just something you can do if you like to or if not skip it by pressing x and that’s it, you also don’t have to do scapes, or the auto museum, livery editor or so on.
 
Well all I can say waiting for my preorder to land now is going to be pain.... I feen! Im looking forward to pimping my diamond in the ruff second hand car... it burns! february is going to be SOOOO long now lol
 
Last edited:
Oh, those license tests you take to show you understand, at the very least, the basics of racing your car? That they added on things over the years to do besides racing doesn't mean it's not a racing game first and foremost.


Well, that's extremely selective. The whole line is marketing gibberish.
At least the real driving simulator just got realer... maybe not lifelike but it will be better than GT Sport I'm 100% sure of that, only the weather radar already confirms that.
 
Is it a racing game yes or no? Simple question, simple answer, yes or no.
Most "racing games", Gran Turismo included, are actually driving games where racing is the main activity involved when it comes to the game's progression, but not the only one.
 
Most "racing games", Gran Turismo included, are actually driving games where racing is the main activity involved when it comes to the game's progression, but not the only one.
They are racing games by virtue of the genre that they are put in, but more then that, they are racing games because they ultimately loop back around to some form of competition, whether it be between people you can see, or a time. Ergo, racing.

This is so simple to understand, no amount of flowery descriptor to make GT seem as more elevated of an art form is going to decouple it from the genre, especially from 99% of the population that doesn't spend their time in this forum.
 
Most "racing games", Gran Turismo included, are actually driving games where racing is the main activity involved when it comes to the game's progression, but not the only one.
No they're racing games that give you activities to do that aren't always racing. The only actual way to just drive regularly in these games is to go in a race, and just not actually race.

A game that isn't a racing game that has racing as an activity is something more akin to GTA.
 
Most "racing games", Gran Turismo included, are actually driving games where racing is the main activity involved when it comes to the game's progression, but not the only one.
That's not a yes or no answer, is it a racing game, yes or no?
 
Most "racing games", Gran Turismo included, are actually driving games where racing is the main activity involved when it comes to the game's progression, but not the only one.
I get where you're coming from. It's not "just" a racing game. Less focused on only racing than other titiles in the Racing genre.

It's actually very easy to understand.
 
I get where you're coming from. It's not "just" a racing game. Less focused on only racing than other titiles in the Racing genre.

It's actually very easy to understand.
Yeah, it is, you're right. That's why not a single person is saying it's only a racing game. In fact, I think almost everyone has acknowledged as much. If you're going to go that far, literally no racing game is only a racing game as almost all of them now have a photomode. Still doesn't make it not a racing game, and it definitely doesn't make those games The Real Photography Simulator.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, it is, you're right. That's why not a single person is saying it's only a racing game. In fact, I think almost everyone has acknowledged as much. If you're going to go that far, literally no racing game is only a racing game as almost all of them now have a photomode. Still doesn't make it not a racing game, and it definitely doesn't make those games The Real Photography Simulator.
Stating otherwise is a bit like saying Manchester United aren't a football team (actually, that is debateable these days). It's like saying Ajax aren't a football team because they don't just play football, they do different activities when they're taining between games, they do physio, they go out for team meals, they do interviews on TV etc. Yeah, there's more to it than what they do for 90-odd minutes infront of a crowd against another team every now and then but they're still a football team.
 
Back