Gran Turismo 7 takes center stage in an all-new State of Play, arriving Wednesday at 2pm Pacific:

[ImaRobot]

I guess I'm just not getting the outrage from a few users here. I know gamers are the most notoriously impossible to please people, but the game isn't even out yet and so many have already drawn conclusions that it's a disappointment because of some things they think they may have seen in gameplay previews? It seems to me that if this is the stance you're taking now despite having not even played it, you have already committed to disliking this game, and no matter how good it ends up being, you will stay the course.

So it's a problem to talk about things we've seen so far, and form opinions about it? It's only ok to do that if you're forming positive opinions about it? It's very easy to not like what you see, and be pleasantly surprised, it's not an issue that people are just 100% jumping on board, especially since people are actually waiting to try the product.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that there is more than one way to enjoy GT. As a car enthusiast, the cars have always been the main draw to me and I have always felt very satisfied by that component of the games. If you are a racing enthusiast, I can see how you would be able to view the games as racing sims first, and car games second.

It's fine that you there's more things to do than just race, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a racing game first and foremost, regardless of all the additions outside of that. Nothing will change that.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I'm pretty sure both Jordan and I have covered this several times, in this thread, in Jordan's article, and in the GTPlanet Ultimate Guide to GT7.


Performance/framerate mode: 60fps across every game mode
RT mode: Literally only in Scapes and replays, NOT AVAILABLE IN GAMEPLAY and no frame-rate target given.


There's no "gameplay FPS" mentioned for RT mode because you can't play the game in RT mode. I don't get what the confusion is here.

I understand, it's just that some sources claimed what you guys have stated and then interjected that the Ray-tracing mode somehow meant the gameplay was 30fps. (even though there isn't ray-tracing), silly, I know. But it cast doubt on the whole issue of "60fps" mode. They implied this means the other mode is 30fps everywhere.

Thank you again for clarifying, there simply isn't any 30fps driving in GT7 👍

 

[Scaff]

I guess I'm just not getting the outrage from a few users here. I know gamers are the most notoriously impossible to please people, but the game isn't even out yet and so many have already drawn conclusions that it's a disappointment because of some things they think they may have seen in gameplay previews? It seems to me that if this is the stance you're taking now despite having not even played it, you have already committed to disliking this game, and no matter how good it ends up being, you will stay the course.

Members are simply talking about what they see as the pro's and cons of an upcoming title.

It's what happens, it's happened for every GT title since the site existed, it happened last year with FH5, NASCAR 21, F1 2021,WRC10, etc. etc.

It's perfectly normal.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that there is more than one way to enjoy GT. As a car enthusiast, the cars have always been the main draw to me and I have always felt very satisfied by that component of the games. If you are a racing enthusiast, I can see how you would be able to view the games as racing sims first, and car games second.
I don't believe anyone has said otherwise.

Please be aware that I am fundamentally stupid, but it does seem to me, as an outsider, as though Polyphony is taking the stance that anyone serious about competitive driving will be playing online against other people who are also serious about competitive driving. Hence their recent investments in Esports and Sport mode. The people who care mostly about cars will probably stick to the offline races in career mode against less challenging and more predictable AI so that we can continue to just rack up credits and buy/modify more cars to build our collections. Either way, however you want to play the game, you should be well catered to. I'm not seeing the issue with that.

The issue you're not seeing is that people who want to race off-line against the AI don't want automatically want " less challenging and more predictable AI", as can be shown not just by the comments about it, but that it's historically been discussed as a weak point of the series, and that every competitor doesn't need to offer AI that is " less challenging and more predictable".

As such those wanting to race off-line are not "well catered to" when it comes to AI.

 

[Silver Arrows]

It seems to me that if this is the stance you're taking now despite having not even played it, you have already committed to disliking this game, and no matter how good it ends up being, you will stay the course.

I can be proven wrong. I would like to be proven wrong. But I'm also realistic, and I'm also very aware of Kaz's tactics when it comes to hyping up his games, and specifically how he seems to highlight and put increased focus on stuff that ultimately serves as inconsequential to the main point of the game - the racing.

GT Cafe sounds neat. But if the racing is the same chase the rabbit stuff, it doesn't matter how you dress it up if it is still going to be the same slog that was present in GT games from 5 onward.

 

[Confus]

So it's a problem to talk about things we've seen so far, and form opinions about it? It's only ok to do that if you're forming positive opinions about it? It's very easy to not like what you see, and be pleasantly surprised, it's not an issue that people are just 100% jumping on board, especially since people are actually waiting to try the product.


It's fine that you there's more things to do than just race, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a racing game first and foremost, regardless of all the additions outside of that. Nothing will change that.

It's not a problem, but some users are criticizing things that they would only have experience with if they had actually played the game, e.g., AI difficulty.

And again, my view on the game is that, at least to me and many others, it's a game about car collecting and enjoying the experience of car ownership/modification first and foremost. Others think racing is what it's all about, and that's fine. It's all down to perspective and there is no one correct interpretation since there's different ways to play.

 

[Samus]

Either way, however you want to play the game, you should be well catered to.

Unless we want an offline racing game to have fun, engaging racing with fast, intelligent AI.

Of course everything anyone says here is with the caveat that we haven't played the game but that should go without saying for every post. The graphics that everyone agrees now look pretty amazing could be downgraded for the final game (Unlikely obviously, just an example). That doesn't mean nobody should be commenting on it now though, or with a caveat, right? The forum would be pretty empty if we had to wait to play the game before commenting on it at all.

The whole point of showing a game off before release, especially only a few weeks before release, is to show the game off in its best light, show what it can do at its best. We've seen multiple videos now with the AI and they exhibit all the same behaviour as they have in past games. There is simply no evidence to date that there has been a large overhaul, despite what Kaz says.

I haven't commited to anything, I've formed opinions on the game based on what I've seen and heard. Just like everyone else has. If I get the game, or rather If I read reviews from other people who buy it day one that there IS an extra step to the AI which provides what I want then of course my opinion will change, why wouldn't it? It's like you think I want the game to suck. I don't.

 

[Confus]

Members are simply talking about what they see as the pro's and cons of an upcoming title.

It's what happens, it's happened for every GT title since the site existed, it happened last year with FH5, NASCAR 21, F1 2021,WRC10, etc. etc.

It's perfectly normal.

In reply to your later comments in this post, my question is how many people who are serious about competitive driving are only racing offline? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious as to how popular offline racing is amongst the racing enthusiast community, especially since the introduction of Sport mode?

 

[Silver Arrows]

It's not a problem, but some users are criticizing things that they would only have experience with if they had actually played the game, e.g., AI difficulty.

Come on. We can see very clearly what the Deep Forest and Daytona vertical slices of video showed off, and I don't exactly see that much different from what has been established since GT6. Kaz can say that he has added difficulty modes to the career mode, but I don't have the impetus to trust him, and besides, what Kaz considers 'harder' might not even be close to what people would consider hard.

Sure, we'll probably have to wait for the game to drop to see if the AI has actually changed. But we can certainly infer from what has been shown, and what has been shown has been incredibly lackluster and more of the same.

 

[NICKname]

It's not a problem, but some users are criticizing things that they would only have experience with if they had actually played the game, e.g., AI difficulty.

You don't need to have played the game to know that the AI is bad.

Similarly, you don't need to be an F1 driver to know that F1 drivers are better than F3 drivers.

And when it comes to the AI in GT7, it's even more obvious how bad it is compared to the AI in other racing games. They brake in the middle of corners when they quite clearly don't have to... And in one of the demoes in the State of Play stream (X2019s at High Speed Ring, the player managed to overtake an entire field of cars in half a lap.

In reply to your later comments in this post, my question is how many people who are serious about competitive driving are only racing offline?

84% of GT Sport players have never entered a single race in Sport mode.

 

[NAXEHT]

In reply to your later comments in this post, my question is how many people who are serious about competitive driving are only racing offline? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious as to how popular offline racing is amongst the racing enthusiast community, especially since the introduction of Sport mode?

Very few, most likely. Without the online that Sport provided I would’ve completed the game ages ago and moved on to something else. The online racing gave longevity and tons of fun. It’s why I’m still playing it, from closed beta to today. GT League was for farming money.

 

[Scaff]

In reply to your later comments in this post, my question is how many people who are serious about competitive driving are only racing offline? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious as to how popular offline racing is amongst the racing enthusiast community, especially since the introduction of Sport mode?

The majority of GTS players have not watched the videos needed to unlock Sport mode, so the answer to your question is most people who have played the game.

Less have then actually taken part in a Sport Race

16% of players have taken part in 1 or more Sport races
60% of players have taken part in the career in one form or another

Stats | Gran Turismo Sport | kudosprime.com

www.kudosprime.com

I race competitively almost exclusively off-line and I chose to do so across a wide range of titles, GTS gets less time than they do because of its dumbed down AI, had it better AI it would get more seat time.

 

[Samus]

In reply to your later comments in this post, my question is how many people who are serious about competitive driving are only racing offline? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious as to how popular offline racing is amongst the racing enthusiast community, especially since the introduction of Sport mode?

There is still a very large percentage of gamers in general who do not play online, I'm one of them. Last I read there are 50 million PS+ subscribers compared to 150+ odd million Playstation players.

As I've said before, I'm well aware that no AI is going to be like racing real people, at least not in 2022. We're some years away from that yet. I accept that, but what I don't accept is that AI can't provide fun and engaging racing at all.

GRID Autosport
GRID (PS4)
Project CARS 2
Driveclub
Dirt/Rally (Rallycross events)

These are all recent games that have provided me a lot of entertainment over the last few years. None are perfect, far from it. GRID is too aggressive. pCARS has a tendency to fall over each other and make a mess, as examples. But most of the time they provide a challenge that is sufficient for my skill level. They can be fast and take a few laps to catch and pass, they can defend well, they can attack when I make a mistake. They all provide a fair and equal race with everyone starting on the racing grid, or with a realistic double rolling file start. They race as a pack and they all try to win.

No recent Gran Turismo game has offered this. The format has placed all of the events with rolling starts where the leader is miles down the road, lapping several seconds a lap slower so I can catch up. The cars in between make no effort to try and win, they just get in your way going very slowly.

Even if you get rid of that by creating a custom race with the highest quality AI they're still a walkover. You can enter races with a car two or three groups lower than the AI and still win because they're so painfully slow.

 

[GTalaune]

The game is going to look really good on a good TV , I think this is clealy not an area of concern.

What's concerning is that we have to play the same chase the rabbit again. Don't even need to improve the AI, lets say it is too much work for them, same with damage, heck they can even skip a qualifying for world tour events. Everything we need to have a more immersive experience is already in GT Sport, let me explain.

We simply need an option, lets call it 'pro' or 'expert' to change the difficulty to the maximum setting. Allow us to enable fuel and tire consumption, enable penalties for corner cutting and contact, remove boost (aka rubberbanding), enable 'strong' damage (which actually makes the car unraceable if you get too much damage, you have to pit and repair). Allow for grid starts or closer launched starts (like in the FIA series, it's like a moving grid, which is good). Basically turn on all the realism options.

But here is the thing, ALL of this you can do in GT Sport, I don't think there was corner cutting and contact penalties in previous games, which meant you could yeet the others cars, which I often see people do.

Just with this, the racing becomes so much more fun, seriously try it (start at the middle of the pack) and you will see, even the AI looks decent on profesionnal difficulty, they race each other and don't form a simple train, they still have bad reactions at time for sure, but it's alright.

I'm average in terms of speed (26k DR), but IMO the races we have since GT5 are just boring, too easy or you must handicap yourself, and in any case, there is no penalty or damage enabled in the races, so you can divebomb and not care, 0 intensive to drive well.

They could allow us this for the world tour/championship while keeping the fixed settings/chase the rabbit for missions and GT café, which is fine, it's a different thing, it's about the experience/situation in these modes.

It should have been present since GT6 with the backlash they received on GT5 from the press and players, games like GRID, Forza and DIRT 2 showed how it's done.

The problem with PD is that they are stubborn and don't allow for flexibility (ie dog**** chase cam in GT5, everyone complained --> same in GT6). We have to suffer the "one size fits all" formula that they have established.

Sorry for that wall of text, hopefully some people here will find some sense in what I wrote

 

[Toysuprahot]

There is still a very large percentage of gamers in general who do not play online, I'm one of them. Last I read there are 50 million PS+ subscribers compared to 150+ odd million Playstation players.

As I've said before, I'm well aware that no AI is going to be like racing real people, at least not in 2022. We're some years away from that yet. I accept that, but what I don't accept is that AI can't provide fun and engaging racing at all.

GRID Autosport
GRID (PS4)
Project CARS 2
Driveclub
Dirt/Rally (Rallycross events)

These are all recent games that have provided me a lot of entertainment over the last few years. None are perfect, far from it. GRID is too aggressive. pCARS has a tendency to fall over each other and make a mess, as examples. But most of the time they provide a challenge that is sufficient for my skill level. They can be fast and take a few laps to catch and pass, they can defend well, they can attack when I make a mistake. They all provide a fair and equal race with everyone starting on the racing grid, or with a realistic double rolling file start. They race as a pack and they all try to win.

No recent Gran Turismo game has offered this. The format has placed all of the events with rolling starts where the leader is miles down the road, lapping several seconds a lap slower so I can catch up. The cars in between make no effort to try and win, they just get in your way going very slowly.

Even if you get rid of that by creating a custom race with the highest quality AI they're still a walkover. You can enter races with a car two or three groups lower than the AI and still win because they're so painfully slow.

At this point PD may very well delete its Ai completely and call their next game "Gran Sportismo" seeing how far away from the rest of its competitors, galaxy distance in fact, the AI in GT has become. Such a shame.

 

[JDMKING13]

84% of GT Sport players have never entered a single race in Sport mode.

Just because you are not entering sport mode doesn’t mean you are still not online competing.. GTP has an really active online league section. I have done sport mode before but I rather race with friends… no different on how people rather just stay offline…

 

[anthonyfa18]

I'm pretty sure both Jordan and I have covered this several times, in this thread, in Jordan's article, and in the GTPlanet Ultimate Guide to GT7.


Performance/framerate mode: 60fps across every game mode
RT mode: Literally only in Scapes and replays, NOT AVAILABLE IN GAMEPLAY and no frame-rate target given.


There's no "gameplay FPS" mentioned for RT mode because you can't play the game in RT mode. I don't get what the confusion is here.

Any news on modes for ps4 pro ???

 

[JPVSPAndrade1]

Guys, will this full interview be published? Like the one from September

 

[GTalaune]

edit.

 

[rono_thomas]

The majority of GTS players have not watched the videos needed to unlock Sport mode, so the answer to your question is most people who have played the game.

Less have then actually taken part in a Sport Race

16% of players have taken part in 1 or more Sport races
60% of players have taken part in the career in one form or another

Stats | Gran Turismo Sport | kudosprime.com

www.kudosprime.com

I race competitively almost exclusively off-line and I chose to do so across a wide range of titles, GTS gets less time than they do because of its dumbed down AI, had it better AI it would get more seat time.

I remember this exact same argument/discussion regarding GTS and using GT6 stats.

 

[Scaff]

But here is the thing, ALL of this you can do in GT Sport, I don't think there was corner cutting and contact penalties in previous games, which meant you could yeet the others cars, which I often see people do.

Just with this, the racing becomes so much more fun, seriously try it (start at the middle of the pack) and you will see, even the AI looks decent on profesionnal difficulty, they race each other and don't form a simple train, they still hav

I've just given this a go, 5 laps in Gr4 cars at Tsukuba.

11th to 3rd without trying and I haven't driven against the AI in GTS in months.

Clean race bonus as well so I played fair, they still brake mid corner fir no reason, hardly defend, etc.

Is it better than career mode? Yes, but it's still far from great.

Did let me get the Flying Lizard Livery out again however

 

[O604]

I've just given this a go, 5 laps in Gr4 cars at Tsukuba.

11th to 3rd without trying and I haven't driven against the AI in GTS in months.

Clean race bonus as well so I played fair, they still brake mid corner fir no reason, hardly defend, etc.

Is it better than career mode? Yes, but it's still far from great.

I know it's not my place since you are a moderator here but could you tone it down a bit with the negativity? AI is bad. We all want improvements. No disagrees with you.

 

[Nielsen]

We've seen multiple videos now with the AI and they exhibit all the same behaviour as they have in past games. There is simply no evidence to date that there has been a large overhaul, despite what Kaz says.

It does seem to have evolved. Maybe not enough to silence long-standing criticism, but in some instances the AI now appears to be more aware and aggressive. Of course, none of this will hardly matter if they’re still slow by default.

 

[Scaff]

I know it's not my place since you are a moderator here but could you tone it down a bit with the negativity? AI is bad. We all want improvements. No disagrees with you.

I will, just as all members are free to do, air my views, be they positive or negative.

I've discussed a good number of things I feel are positive about what we have seen in GT7 so far, I note that you have not asked me to tone those down? Are you asking people who repeatedly praise the same thing or post the same positive view to stop doing so because "No one disagrees with you"?

The AUP does not require a positive view for GTS or any title, rather we encourage an exchange of ideas and views both positive and negative, and to be honest, the consistent attacks, either against specific members or as a whole, against anyone perceived to be too negative, is of far more concern.

 

[Theufcveteran]

The debate about whether GT is or isn’t a racing game reminds me of the one not too long ago where it apparently wasn’t a game at all, because it was a simulator, lol. That was fun to read.

 

[Peter.]

Development of GT7 started almost immediately after GTS released according to Kaz, three years before the pandemic. Obviously the work of some of the track modellers was included as updates to Sport but that still gave them three years to go out and scan new tracks that they could work on in later development years.

Kaz also said that because of how his company works they weren't too badly affected by COVID.


They added 12 brand new locations to GTS at launch. Of course modelling a returning track takes just as long as a new track but subtract those four (High Speed Ring) that's still output of 8 locations fewer.

Sure, but that doesn't stop them from making new fantasy tracks. I could totally accept no new real world tracks given the state of travel for the last couple of years, but no new tracks at all seems off. I would have thought at least one new fantasy track to serve as the iconic location for the game would be mandatory, but apparently not.

You're not counting the redesigns (not upscales, total redesigns) of classic GT courses, and the remodels of real world courses that were already in the game as work done if you only see it as 'no brand new tracks upon release'. They count as work done, trips that have to be made (in a pandemic) for the real tracks, and as value added to the final product, even on release day.

If they hadn't included the GT originals, fans would have complained to a similar degree that they were absent. If they simply upscaled them, people would complain the fantasy layouts are bland or aren't suitable for serious racing. And if they had simply brought the real world tracks forward with no adjustments, fans would be upset by the end of a 2 minute real life comparison video.

That's all wihout saying the change in standards, and consequently the time and resources required for new tracks in 2022, especially compared to mainline releases of the past.

 

[Dave A]

In reply to your later comments in this post, my question is how many people who are serious about competitive driving are only racing offline? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious as to how popular offline racing is amongst the racing enthusiast community, especially since the introduction of Sport mode?

I race pretty much exclusively offline. I think some people fail to realise that people like me air their frustrations at Gran Turismo not improving with the competition and these areas because we like Gran Turismo, not the other way round. I will in all probability still buy GT7 at some point, I may buy it full price or I may wait till it's reduced, but in all liklihood I'll buy it at some point. I'm very fond of the series, which is why I'm here. But I don't allow that fondness to paint over the cracks in the games armour.

I want it to be better because I like it, and it frustrates me when we see the same poor AI, flawed physics and mile long single file race starts game after game. Some people like it how it is perhaps, great, if it were the way I liked it they'd have just as much right to say that's not the game they want it to be as I have right now and as anyone else has for that matter.

 

[NICKname]

Just because you are not entering sport mode doesn’t mean you are still not online competing.. GTP has an really active online league section. I have done sport mode before but I rather race with friends… no different on how people rather just stay offline…

How many players would actually have been active in the lobbies without ever entering Sport mode even once? It's the game main selling point. Surely anyone who likes online racing would've tried it at least once at some point? You have even done that yourself.

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

Interesting that no one as far as I'm aware has referenced this published by Play Station.

It states what happens when you first open Gran Turismo 7 and the requirements to open up Tuning etc.

I'm sure some will not be happy !

Gran Turismo 7: State of Play recap and your first few hours with the game

Settle in for 30 minutes of new PS5 gameplay

blog.playstation.com

 

[Samus]

I know it's not my place since you are a moderator here but could you tone it down a bit with the negativity? AI is bad. We all want improvements. No disagrees with you.

The only reason we have to keep reiterating our position on the AI is because people keep trying to defend it and disagreeing, recently with absurd reasoning.

 

[05XR8]

Interesting that no one as far as I'm aware has referenced this published by Play Station.

It states what happens when you first open Gran Turismo 7 and the requirements to open up Tuning etc.

I'm sure some will not be happy !

Gran Turismo 7: State of Play recap and your first few hours with the game

Settle in for 30 minutes of new PS5 gameplay

blog.playstation.com

Someone previously posted an article about the first 30 minutes of the game.

Well, if it has to be done to unlock/advance stuff, then, it has to be done.