Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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I mentioned the price point because I'm free to do so.

If you read my previous post, you'll see there's no issue with me on your point.

Relax my friend. You're very easily triggered :)
And after the strawman fallacy comes the ad hominem fallacy. Thank you for the great example.:) Next time, try responding without a little dig at what you presume my emotional state to be.:)
 
The GT formula is the sum of all the intangibles - the way PD presents GT. The way the menus make you feel like your in a lounge, the smooth jazz music, the way they present the cars in the dealerships/garage, the the photo mode, the perfect replay angles, the breathtaking graphics, even the license tests
While true, that is still only part of the GT formula, the other half of it is completely gone.

Regarding the offliine game progression, PD never said there would be, but they never said there wouldn't be, so anyone who does or doesn't think it'll be in the game is reaching no farther than the other. We just need more information - but it seems to be generally accepted that it won't be despite any confirmation
To be honest, they have already layed out what offline is going to be. I'm not going to pretend it can be something else unless they come out and say it's going to be something else. We've already seen what it consist of.

The gap continues to close with the tangibles (physics, sounds based on the beta footage) and the car list will continue to grow (Forza had to face the big chop as well with XB1 debut) - but the intangible GT formula can't be easily emulated
They seem to be doing well with the part of the GT formula that GTS is excluding. They did face a crop but the reason they come back is because they've been on top of producing more vehicles. That is something PD had had an issue with, although that is something that might change this iteration. Hopefully. Although if they do try to reach 400 cars like they claim, I would prepare to spend a pretty penny.
I mentioned the price point because I'm free to do so.

If you read my previous post, you'll see there's no issue with me on your point.

Relax my friend. You're very easily triggered :)
You being free to do so doesn't mean much when it has little to do with the point that was being laid out.

Triggered is such an easy word to through around to try to belittle someone when someone can't seem to have a discussion with someone else with opposing views. It's a silly word.
 
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Really? Have y'all taken into count those of us who bought a PS4 year 1 and who've been waiting patiently(some not so) for over 3 years? Considering how far into the PS4s life we are and the release of "better" PS4. It's going to be hard to say how many systems were purchased cause of GTSport. The influx of system purchases at release can give us an idea. But I'd say those of us who are serious about GT have had one for a good while.
I bought a ps4pro the day the beta was out...
 
And after the strawman fallacy comes the ad hominem fallacy. Thank you for the great example.:) Next time, try responding without a little dig at what you presume my emotional state to be.:)

I didn't realise Google Translate had a Latin option :lol:

Next time, try to stay on topic and respond to the point that I'm agreeing with you on.

Lol.
 
I didn't realise Google Translate had a Latin option :lol:

Next time, try to stay on topic and respond to the point that I'm agreeing with you on.

Lol.
Next time try to realize that you don't need to adopt a games prices or the price of the hardware is on to adopt it's structure.

Try to stay on topic, period.
 
The GT formula is the sum of all the intangibles - the way PD presents GT. The way the menus make you feel like your in a lounge, the smooth jazz music, the way they present the cars in the dealerships/garage, the the photo mode, the perfect replay angles, the breathtaking graphics, even the license tests.

These things are not intangible (at least in as much as everything in a computer is intangible). It's a video game, anything that is there has to have been put there by someone. We can talk about menu design, music selection, graphical presentation and so on.

They are always praised for their attention to detail, and they take all aspects of the game equally serious.

No, they're not, and no, they don't. Look at GT5 and GT6 and tell me about their attention to detail and treating all aspects of the game equally. For every instance of minute detailing on headlights there's a pixelated standard car with a blacked out interior.

They've done a remarkable job of getting people to believe what I just quoted, however. But that speaks more to their marketing and the strength of their early work than anything else.

It'd liken it to the uniqueness of Quentin Tarantino films - very distinct flavor that is all but impossible to copy.

Perhaps, but there's more to a movie or a game than style. While Tarantino films are almost always worth a watch, there's a difference between the ones with a well designed backbone beneath the exterior and the ones that are merely a sequence of incredibly well written and well directed short scenes. Inglorious Bastards, I'm looking at you. Just about any given scene in that movie is incredible, and yet the sum of the whole is somewhat less than the sum of it's parts. There's little added by having all those scenes together.

Compare to something like Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction, and while the individual scenes are amazing, there's also a very interesting story that's being revealed by having those scenes together and in the particular order that they are. Even within a certain creator's personal style, I think there is room for their works to be lesser or greater dependent on how good the product is that they're applying that style to.

Modern Gran Turismos suffer from a similar problem, IMO. All the great parts are there, but the way that they're put together is somehow less engaging than it seems like it could be. They've got great graphics, solid physics, and a distinct personality, and yet somehow these things never really come together in that "OMG that was incredible I didn't know games could be that cool" moment.

While it's admittedly harder to do it in a racing game than just about any other genre, I think in a racing game it's almost the most satisfying experience. When you have a really hard fought race where you got your result through your own skill and hard work, that's a really good feeling. Even completing hard missions and licenses, although GT has a nasty habit of making it less about skill and more about finding the trick they want you to use. And in single player, it's obviously difficult for GT because it's AI is pretty awful.

Moving to primarily online is one solution to the AI problem, but it introduces a bunch more that I'm not sure are easier to solve, especially with a casual audience. How do you promote clean and fair racing amongst an audience that tends to be a) not very good and b)rage quitters and c)trolls? How do you make it engaging for all players when only 1 in 24 can win, and that's traditionally been the measure of success in your games? How do you create a system that is easy to pick up but hard to master, which is largely necessary to provide the depth of gameplay for a serious e-sport? How do you deal with the ever present problems of online competition, latency, matchmaking and player base?

GTS has chosen an interesting way to approach the idea of giving a player an engaging motor sport experience. Unfortunately, what they've shown so far seems to have the same problem as GT5 and 6; all style, no substance. While how they present their games is great, there needs to be a good game under there as well. It's not enough to have nice menus and a great soundtrack.
 
I guess not then.

Anyway once again I came so close to my first win on the beta yesterday. I will upload it in a little while. I'm disappointed but the guy that I race against for the win was cool and raced me clean.
 
My mate is trying to convince me that GT Sport is a bad game. He says that Project Cars 2 is better because it has dynamic time and weather, more tracks, better sounds and better physics. He thinks I should buy Project Cars 2 instead of GT Sport, rather than both. Should I listen to him? Should I not purchase GT Sport? I'm confused because Gran Turismo has been in my life for years and I've dedicated more time to it than any other game. It's the strong emotional connection I have with this series that brings me back time and time again, even with all its flaws. That's why I find it hard to leave the series indefinitely.
 
My mate is trying to convince me that GT Sport is a bad game. He says that Project Cars 2 is better because it has dynamic time and weather, more tracks, better sounds and better physics. He thinks I should buy Project Cars 2 instead of GT Sport, rather than both. Should I listen to him? Should I not purchase GT Sport? I'm confused because Gran Turismo has been in my life for years and I've dedicated more time to it than any other game. It's the strong emotional connection I have with this series that brings me back time and time again, even with all its flaws. That's why I find it hard to leave the series indefinitely.
Why not both? Expensive year for me : GTSport, Forza 7 and PC2 and maybe a PS4 Pro if the difference is big enough.
 
My mate is trying to convince me that GT Sport is a bad game. He says that Project Cars 2 is better because it has dynamic time and weather, more tracks, better sounds and better physics. He thinks I should buy Project Cars 2 instead of GT Sport, rather than both. Should I listen to him? Should I not purchase GT Sport? I'm confused because Gran Turismo has been in my life for years and I've dedicated more time to it than any other game. It's the strong emotional connection I have with this series that brings me back time and time again, even with all its flaws. That's why I find it hard to leave the series indefinitely.

No, you shouldn't listen to him. You should make up your own mind. Depending on what he's saying, he's probably raising some fairly valid points about what pC2 appears to be offering compared to what GTS offers. On paper, it seems to be a superior game in many areas.

I would say that the best thing you could do at this point is wait until one of them releases. Assuming that you've only got enough money for one (or only enough time to play one game), you're not going to be able to make a sensible choice until then and there's honestly no reason to. GTS looks interesting. pC2 on paper seems better in many areas, especially for the more simulation focused crowd, but one should be wary after pC1.

Ultimately the point is to buy the game that is the most fun for you. There's no real point in trying to choose which one that is without at some real exposure to at the very least one of the games. Don't commit yourself, emotionally or financially, when all you're doing is playing into the corporations hands. Let them put out their products, and then make your choice.

Even if GTS ends up being on paper "worse" than pC2, if you're having more fun with it you should buy that. But I'd suggest waiting until you actually see what the final game entails, rather than relying on an attachment to a brand that is undergoing radical changes.
 
My mate is trying to convince me that GT Sport is a bad game. He says that Project Cars 2 is better because it has dynamic time and weather, more tracks, better sounds and better physics. He thinks I should buy Project Cars 2 instead of GT Sport, rather than both. Should I listen to him? Should I not purchase GT Sport? I'm confused because Gran Turismo has been in my life for years and I've dedicated more time to it than any other game. It's the strong emotional connection I have with this series that brings me back time and time again, even with all its flaws. That's why I find it hard to leave the series indefinitely.

If you have the money well it's easy:"all of the above". If you have to make choices well it's up to you and just follow your heart and buy GTSport :)

Each race game/sim has it's pros en cons. I see it a bit like this:

AC for physics and best car-track 'feeling' and I think* closest to real life.
GTSport for graphics and PSVR support (!) more in line with Driveclub 'arcadish'
PCars2** for the complete package including Livetrack, careermode

* "think" because I can only compare a couple of cheap road cars which I drove and raced in real life vs the virtual world. The expensive car it feels very good in AC but is it fair to compare them with real life if you never had the chance to experience them yourself. Therefor "think" :dopey:

** Besides the WMD2 community we have not been able to play PCars2 ourselves so it is based on (forum) feedback from what we've seen and heard and the IanBell Q&A is very helpful.
First seeing is believing, but PCars2 already sounds and looks very very promising. If physics handling and car/fbb indeed has been improved. WoW!! :bowdown:
At this stage it can be or will be the sim surprise of 2017 until otherwise is proven

Dirt4, F2017, NfS don't know yet. My wallet is also not unlimited
 
Welcome to online gaming. Unfortunately, it happens a lot. Fortunately, racing tends to be a bit more gentlemanly than some other online gaming genres.

I've been following the "Worst you've dealt with online" threads since the middle of GT5's life, I'm just surprised it took this long to find me :lol:

In other news I've now got myself up to an SR-S rating, gotta start working on my pace...
 
I've been following the "Worst you've dealt with online" threads since the middle of GT5's life, I'm just surprised it took this long to find me :lol:

In other news I've now got myself up to an SR-S rating, gotta start working on my pace...

Wow, good going man. Is that the top rating?
 
They are always praised for their attention to detail, and they take all aspects of the game equally serious.
GT5 made it plainly clear that their attention to detail extended only to whatever fussy modeling precision they wasted time on for cars they made specifically for GT5 and very little else when it came to recreating a car, so no. They may be praised for it by someone who looks at a picture of a headlight that PD uses for press material, but that doesn't mean they actually do it.
 
Can't agree with you there I'm afraid. Far to often it's form over function.

My mate is trying to convince me that GT Sport is a bad game. He says that Project Cars 2 is better because it has dynamic time and weather, more tracks, better sounds and better physics. He thinks I should buy Project Cars 2 instead of GT Sport, rather than both. Should I listen to him? Should I not purchase GT Sport? I'm confused because Gran Turismo has been in my life for years and I've dedicated more time to it than any other game. It's the strong emotional connection I have with this series that brings me back time and time again, even with all its flaws. That's why I find it hard to leave the series indefinitely.
Right now, for me, PCars 2 is looking like it will be the better game. However, that doesn't mean I wont buy both. My advise would be to get both but if you are only looking to get one then that really is your decision and your's alone.
 
My mate is trying to convince me that GT Sport is a bad game. He says that Project Cars 2 is better because it has dynamic time and weather, more tracks, better sounds and better physics. He thinks I should buy Project Cars 2 instead of GT Sport, rather than both. Should I listen to him? Should I not purchase GT Sport? I'm confused because Gran Turismo has been in my life for years and I've dedicated more time to it than any other game. It's the strong emotional connection I have with this series that brings me back time and time again, even with all its flaws. That's why I find it hard to leave the series indefinitely.
When you read a lot of the back and forth in the GTS Forum, especially when comparing games, one might get the impression that the battle lines are drawn and there's a lot of real hatred towards GTS, that none of the "naysayers" would touch the game with a 10 foot pole and I don't believe that is the case at all. I can't speak for anyone else, but most of what I read I take as intellectual banter. It's a frank discussion of the way that GTS and other games handle what we consider the core elements of sim racing: physics, FFB, sound, graphics, features etc. but I think a lot of people read the negative assessments of GTS and think, "Oh he says nothing but negative stuff, why is he here, he's never going to buy the game, why is he so angry etc." I read those same posts and all I think is, "oh he has a good point there, that's true". Of course there are all kinds of people here, but it's best to read the comments and draw out the factual information and forget about what one perceives as the emotion behind the posts.

Ultimately though, you buy the game you think you are going to enjoy the most if you can only afford one. Your friend has his preferences and he does have some good points about PCars2, but ultimately they are like the discussion here, just intellectual banter. They don't say anything about what it's like to actually play the game. Something like controller optimization may be your highest priority if you don't play with a wheel and it might trump everything else. Graphics may be extremely high on your list as well. Being in the GT community when racing offers some advantages too. There are many reasons to buy and play games beyond physics and features, you choose what matters to you and buy the game you think you'll enjoy the most.
 
GT Sport trolled me today.

I was doing the 3 Gr4 races at Willow. I had set an OK qualifying time for the first race which I started in 8th place (finished 5th.) In between the first and second races, I knocked nearly a second off my time, so I started the 2nd race, which had exactly the same people in it, in 3rd place (finished 2nd.) Back to qualy for the 3rd race, and I'm thinking that I can knock some more time off to start even higher, maybe even pole. I knock another half second off my time and am quite smug as the field gets decided. It put me up into a higher group with @Firehuntah on pole and me in 8th.

Thanks GTS 👍
 
What! They changed the tracks again. N300 back at nordschleife (such a waste), gr4 back at Brands indy - thank god there isnt another oval on gr3.. But would have preferred nurb to brands gp.. :indiff:

Spendind less and less time with the beta.. Then again dont have access to beta forum so im not really contributing that much..

And now, back by Popular Demand, for a fourth straight week... N300 at Nords :banghead:
 
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