Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
- Thread starter Formidable
- 47,132 comments
- 4,746,932 views
- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
You do realize that car modeling is not only about the "Model" creation in game but every other aspect that has to do with the car such as: licensing, CAD data processing, physics modeling and many other things that usually would take months up to build? (6-7 to be more exact)
If you do not believe me here are more evidence from other video games:
DRIVECLUB
https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/51-details-about-drive-club-31318450/ Titled as : "The cars" number 22: "Each car takes approximately seven months to create — from initial licensing, reference collation, CAD data processing, asset production, physics modelling, through to the final car in-game".
FORZA MOTORSPORTS/ HORIZON (specifically Forza horizon 3)
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/just-how-tough-is-it-to-get-a-car-scanned-into-forza/
" q: How long does it take to scan each car?"
" a: From sourcing to production, bug testing and polish, and finally being available either on disc or as part of a DLC pack, the general process takes around six months".
Looking at other great titles like P C.A.R.S.(2), Asseto Corsa, Iracing and R3E I would say you will get roughly the same answer on how long it takes to model/develop a car in game.
As you can see it has nothing to do with bad managment.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I definitely agree that 6 months is the norm for what we've seen and heard around, but that doesn't mean outsourcing wouldn't be any faster. We would first have to see how they approach the situation and how they give us content post-release, but they where fairly slow in comparison to most any game in the past.
They want to reach 500~ vehicles, and in order to do that in a reasonable amount of time their delivery would have to be so much better than it ever was in the past.
- 51
- Canada
Umm lol you just proved my point...games like Pcars, Forza turn to sourcing talent during production to help with modelling, PD doesn't..thus the time it takes to create content versus Turn 10, and other devs. That is terrible resource management.
- 2,342
- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
That´s not the issue. Other companies outsource their work and almost any title that i can think of carry over vehicles from previous versions, which makes it a lot easier to bump up the total count in sequels.
Pcars, iRacing and the likes are not ditching cars and modelling from scratch everytime they release a new version.
GT is abandoning old cars, that´s the problem. They ditched the 400+ PS3 premiums because they were not up to standards of the PS4, so they started the whole process again, which is why GTS has the worst car roster of the series. Also, they don´t outsource, so it´s almost impossible for them to compete with games like Forza and it´s 700+ car roster.
They also didn´t use any of the modelling from Driveclub, which is bizarre but true.
Pcars, iRacing and the likes are not ditching cars and modelling from scratch everytime they release a new version.
GT is abandoning old cars, that´s the problem. They ditched the 400+ PS3 premiums because they were not up to standards of the PS4, so they started the whole process again, which is why GTS has the worst car roster of the series. Also, they don´t outsource, so it´s almost impossible for them to compete with games like Forza and it´s 700+ car roster.
They also didn´t use any of the modelling from Driveclub, which is bizarre but true.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
We've heard the talk about "New Generation, New Cars" and that was false to an extent when it was claimed by T10, although not by a lot. We have no idea how PD approached it, or why they have so little cars in the amount of time they've been doing it. PD's output is very slow, no matter what way you look at it, that's why the discussion of outsourcing came out in the first place.
Reusing assets is the smartest move, especially when they can work perfectly well in the game they're making. Why PD decided to drop so much and produce so little in the amount of time is unknown at this point, but the Premiums that were introduced into GT6 looked damn fine, so I'm wondering if they truly had to drop them completely.
I don't quite know how I feel about that. If T10 can very well get old assets to work in their current model, than any game can approach it in the same way. However, the cars that T10 brought over where models that where used dating back to Fm2 in most cases, where as the cars that where introduced into GT6 are of a different quality if you compare the FM2>FM6/7 and GT6>GTS so you'd think that they'd be able to get those working within the game much easier. However, we don't have much of an idea of how that works.
Outsourcing aside, they're production rate is fairly slow, that's why it's being discussed in comparison.
It's a different game, with different licensing, why would they use it?
T10 is stated at 100-300, PD is 200+. They're probably fairly equal. With them outsourcing it gives them much time to do other things, I suppose. If PD want to meet the number they've claimed for GTS, than they'd most definitely have to outsource, given their pace.
- 2,342
- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Now there's a blast from the past: I distinctly remember somebody once insisting that was going to happen.
(NINJA-EDIT) Ah, found it!
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...and-screenshots.331389/page-115#post-11391256
Despite all that, it is a little sad that DC and GTS couldn't be paired off in the same way FH and FM are.
- 2,342
- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
Badly worded out on my part, what i mean is, in a game like RaceRoom you have major updates, but since it´s treated like a platform, you never lose any content, they are just reworked and improved, they don´t have to remodel any of the cars each time they release a major update. Same goes for iRacing, which is why they can have so many tracks and cars.
In Pcars, almost all of the content carried over for Pcars 2, saving up a lot of developing time to focus on new content.
Forza does this as well, it´s a common process on sequels.
The problem with GT is that with each generation of consoles they dropped the old models and started from scratch, without outsourcing. We had legacy content in GT5-6, but now we know that PS3 premiums (so far) are not carrying it over for the PS4 version.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Yeah I know all that, and that's why I'm wondering was it really absolutely necessary to just drop everything? We know they did it, we're just not sure why. We also don't know if truly everything was redone from the ground up, completely throwing out any and all work they had, which I find doubtful, but with a lack of info in that regard I can't really say much.
Forza very much claimed the same thing with FM5, but like I said, that wasn't entirely true. The main difference is that T10 was exponentially faster with producing content afterwards.
- 982
That has everything to do with my post. Thats what I meant by GR4 race as its written there. If there are races in stage 1 then you bet there will plenty more later on.
Sure, but they remain second to PD's models. PD just need to hire more people. The company makes ridiculous bank ($1.5-2 billion last gen in revenue from GT games) and are SCE's darling next to Naughty Dog. HR need to be less conservative.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Yes it may have had something to do with your post, but the post had nothing to do with what he quoted from me. Yet that doesn't really have to do with my concern, because I was posting, and hoping, that these are more than one lap stints, and hoping that there is abundance of them. If there is just a few scattered between the random challenges, than it would be something that I'd be disappointed with me. We can't assume that there will be plenty because we saw one thing that resembles a race, as the very description of that mode makes it seem like its going to be filled with challenges, rather than races.
Still, which had little to do with what I posted to you because I already specifically noted that one. You asked where it says one lap, and I told you specifically on the picture. That one GR4 race slated as challange 8 is the only "race" I've seen so far, to be honest.
They are not second, they have different focus area's. We can assume that PD's second to Forza because as far as we know, Forza is modeling so much more of their cars compared to GT. The company needs to outsource, that would be the simple solution.
As far as more staff, do they really need that? Like I mentioned, PD is stated to have 200+ and T10 is stated at 100-300. I would bet they are fairly close to each other.
Last edited:
- 982
They evidently are, as one laps stints are called one lap.
There may be.
And we can't assume there are little like you are with your worrying spree.
They clearly are lol. I don't think anyone can dispute PD trump Turn 10 is the car modelling department.
PD have 110 from their company profile
T10 have 450
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
It's evident that one of these 8 challenges says race, and one specifically labels it as a one lap stint. We don't know what it entails. That's why I specifically, over, and over, and over again keep mentioning that I hope that it's more than one lap, and that I hope there is a ton more, because so far the only race we've seen in any aspect of it has been that one you mention with the GR4. The other race you mentioned for the 1v1 doesn't label it either or, so no, we don't know the separation and difference.
There also might not be.
If there wasn't a "little" they would be very easy to point out. In any aspect of the campaign mode from what we've seen, we've seen absolutely one that says race. So again, hopefully it is actually a race, and hopefully there is more. As it sits, we have no idea, so again, that's why I keep saying I hope.
If they are literally modeling less, than how are you going to say they're modeling is first? They're modeling much less and making much less available in the models compared to T10, so would you say they are first in actually modeling of the vehicles, or do you just mean how they look outright? That starts leading more into actual texturing and lighting afterwards. That is where they are second to none.
As it sits, I would say that T10 is making out much more with their models, but PD is outright making them shine with what they work with. So depending on where you're looking, no they just aren't outright better. T10 just seems to have a better balance in terms of content created, and speed.
Source? Because It wasn't even a year ago that there was an article on this very site that said PD has 200+ staff, as well as the fact that it's saying the exact same thing when I look around.
I also see you're using information from an article that looks to be at least 7 years old now.
Sure is, but its still not far off the 200+ that is stated for PD.
- 982
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/company/
PD have 110. Don't see why people are acting like we never knew this.
Dude I'm clearly talking about the quality of models.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06...-steering-wheels-and-shifting-gears-ign-first
Dated: 6/28/2017
http://www.thedrive.com/watch-this/...-scenes-of-gran-turismo-at-polyphonys-offices
Dated: 6/13/2017
http://www.isrtv.com/gran-turismo-series/get-tour-polyphony-digitals-headquarters-kazunori-yamauchi/
Dated: 6/23/2017
Hell, there's even an article here on the very site you visit, but I'm sure, from here, you'd be able to get the point.
If you're specifically talking about the quality of the models and only the quality, than again, I disagree. Take away everything like the lighting, the shading, the textures from the cars, and you wont be seeing a massive difference. The difference comes in the things that PD introduce after the models are done. On top of the fact that T10 are putting that same quality in so much more areas of the cars that PD just flat-out isn't.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Can you show us some of the under-the-skin modelling on GT Sport's cars, then? All of the opening body parts?
Like @ImaRobot said — different aspects. I don't think many will argue PD's lighting and shader wizardry, however.
Then the site's out of date, since Yamauchi-san told us over a year ago that the count is now over 200.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
- 982
F6 btw
Will be interesting to see once they both release
??
Interior and exterior modelling is whats most significant though.
Really? Unusual for them to have thier own company profile site to be out of date. Perhaps its just talking about the Tokyo or Japan offices.
