Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[GordonS]

I've been sim racing since the early 90's I know that. However, if I want to compete in all the comps in GTS that means public lobbys. And if the beta is anything to go by then that is still going to mean an unacceptable level of driving standards even with the matchmaking system in place. That was my point, the GTS matchmaking system & skill rating system I experienced in the beta did not do a good enough job of improving driving standards.

The whole ethos of GTS is online e-sports, even if the delusional Kaz says it's only 15%, the vast majority of that will be public lobbys, they need to get all of this stuff right, matchmaking, skill rating, BOP, for the e-sports to be a success. What I experienced in the beta was not close to being right.

You want PoDi to tune the online perfect for you, yet you have that highly disrespectful attitude towards Kaz. *slow clapping*
I think they managed to improve the beta rating system nicely towards the end.
It's clear, when humans involved, drama will occur. Even in carefully prepared community races.
The online rating system will likely evolve long after the GTS release but we'll always have thight heated situations in online racing as in real life racing.
And in the upcoming GTS daily races I predict the fast dirty drivers will be eventually pressurized out of the 'clean community' some way, which actually already started in the late phase of the beta.

 

[NixxxoN]

I've been sim racing since the early 90's I know that. However, if I want to compete in all the comps in GTS that means public lobbys. And if the beta is anything to go by then that is still going to mean an unacceptable level of driving standards even with the matchmaking system in place. That was my point, the GTS matchmaking system & skill rating system I experienced in the beta did not do a good enough job of improving driving standards.

The whole ethos of GTS is online e-sports, even if the delusional Kaz says it's only 15%, the vast majority of that will be public lobbys, they need to get all of this stuff right, matchmaking, skill rating, BOP, for the e-sports to be a success. What I experienced in the beta was not close to being right.

You know... there will always be dirty drivers out there, even amongst the best. Look at even F1 which is the pinnacle of motor racing, there have been some dirty drivers in F1 too... Also, in a competitive or very competitive environments there will always be some resorting to dirty tactics in order to win, thats what you get when everyone wants to win and only one can do so... So I would not blame the game for that.
If you want 100% clean and respectful racing, I would just stick to a lobby of well known people.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

@Soundtrack
How about simple and clear Sony strategy to have all FIA sanctioned races (those are the ones with dedicated servers, remember) without need for PSN+, witch would also serve to accumulate maximum turnout to present to the world and the FIA it self how their partnership is World wide succes! (That is VERY worth while investment, especialy when said programme is in its infancy and need care - it is very easy to change that later...)

But for all other online activities, our private lobbies etc., to requier PS+ as that is completely standard practice for almost all other games.

 

[PzR Slim]

You want PoDi to tune the online perfect for you, yet you have that highly disrespectful attitude towards Kaz. *slow clapping*
I think they managed to improve the beta rating system nicely towards the end.
It's clear, when humans involved, drama will occur. Even in carefully prepared community races.
The online rating system will likely evolve long after the GTS release but we'll always have thight heated situations in online racing as in real life racing.
And in the upcoming GTS daily races I predict the fast dirty drivers will be eventually pressurized out of the 'clean community' some way, which actually already started in the late phase of the beta.

Well surprise, surprise didn't take you long. You conveniently ignored my previous comment

It’s a thankless task for the devs. I’m not sure any system will ever be able to deal with the problem.

I have a highly disrespectful attitude to Kaz because that is what he has earned from me over the years with his broken promises, lies and delusional statements. I don't bow at his feet treating him like the second coming as others do. You see I make my own choices, I'm not tied to any one system or franchise. I'm not that pathetic.

You know... there will always be dirty drivers out there, even amongst the best. Look at even F1 which is the pinnacle of motor racing, there have been some dirty drivers in F1 too... Also, in a competitive or very competitive environments there will always be some resorting to dirty tactics in order to win, thats what you get when everyone wants to win and only one can do so... So I would not blame the game for that.
If you want 100% clean and respectful racing, I would just stick to a lobby of well known people.

I wasn't blaming the game hence why I said.

It’s a thankless task for the devs. I’m not sure any system will ever be able to deal with the problem.

However, that is where GTS has put all it's eggs, online e-sports, they have got rid of a meaningful career and focused solely on the online aspect. The games success depends on the online e-sports working correctly. If that's impossible to achieve because of human nature then it's a huge risk for them to have taken.

 

[ImaRobot]

You want PoDi to tune the online perfect for you, yet you have that highly disrespectful attitude towards Kaz. *slow clapping*
I think they managed to improve the beta rating system nicely towards the end.
It's clear, when humans involved, drama will occur. Even in carefully prepared community races.
The online rating system will likely evolve long after the GTS release but we'll always have thight heated situations in online racing as in real life racing.
And in the upcoming GTS daily races I predict the fast dirty drivers will be eventually pressurized out of the 'clean community' some way, which actually already started in the late phase of the beta.

And all of that had nothing to do with his point.

 

[Tired Tyres]

However, that is where GTS has put all it's eggs, online e-sports, they have got rid of a meaningful career and focused solely on the online aspect. The games success depends on the online e-sports working correctly. If that's impossible to achieve because of human nature then it's a huge risk for them to have taken.

This basically. That is the problem. They have decided NOT to make a game for all players. Only for some of them. That is why I'm sure this will flop. I don't understand why they'd take such a completely unnecessary risk.

 

[NixxxoN]

This basically. That is the problem. They have decided NOT to make a game for all players. Only for some of them. That is why I'm sure this will flop. I don't understand why they'd take such a completely unnecessary risk.

Can you ever make a kind of game like this for ALL players though? You know this is impossible, you can never please everybody

 

[PzR Slim]

Can you ever make a kind of game like this for ALL players though? You know this is impossible, you can never please everybody

I think if they had included a career like in previous games with the necessary improvements that should be made from one iteration to the next then, not all people would be satisfied, but many more would have been satisfied than currently are.

Both PC2 and FM7 are going to feature e-sports similar to GTS as well as a fully featured campaign mode, one with many more tracks and the other with many more cars. Not sure why GTS couldn't achieve that.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Can you ever make a kind of game like this for ALL players though? You know this is impossible, you can never please everybody

So your saying if you put esport in a game then you can't put a competent one player element in as well? Good try. 👎

 

[TurismoBad]

Kaz BS spins worked on some folks here.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Ummmm, I'd say that a four month worldwide beta purely to test online performance and ground test an advanced matchmaking system was pretty decent evidence. Certainly more than 'they might announce it next week', as with PCars2.

Seems you missed the link, which is odd, since it's in the post you quoted:
http://www.projectcarsgame.com/esports-projectcars2.html

Relevant bit: "Your Competitive Racing License is used in matchmaking in order to place you into games with players of similar competitiveness and professionalism. And you can also use it as a minimum requirement when making your own games."

It's not a "they might announce it next week" situation — it's simply waiting for confirmation.

The GT Sport beta regularly paired D/C (driver/sportsmanship) drivers with B/A people. That doesn't speak to a system working flawlessly — but, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt there because a) it was a beta, and the pool of drivers couldn't have been more than a few thousand, tops, worldwide, and b) the room would still feature a fair chunk of drivers closer to that rating.

Due to the nature of the subject (online matchmaking), neither game can really be judged on how successful these driver licenses have been implemented until they're actually out in the wild.

Don't want to be too presumptuous, but you seem to be jumping down the guys throat over nothing, really. Not entirely necessary, and not something to go all out sarcasm attack on the member for, I would have thought.

If you don't want to be presumptuous, I'd recommend not making a bunch of assumptions and basing your response on them.

There is no "jumping down the guy's throat" — it's a response (one the member even liked in return). There's no sarcasm either. If you want to read a sarcastic tone in a post, that's your choice, but at least recognize that.

 

[NixxxoN]

So your saying if you put esport in a game then you can't put a competent one player element in as well? Good try. 👎

No I didnt say that. Anyway lets wait and see for the final game...

 

[GordonS]

Kaz BS spins worked on some folks here.

What do you mean by this?

 

[lancia delta hf]

Can you ever make a kind of game like this for ALL players though? You know this is impossible, you can never please everybody

GT5 sold 10 million copies, a tiny fraction played online. All players does not mean all gamers, it means all GT players. Taking out a proper single player means they have given the middle finger to the majority of GT players.

What do you mean by this?

Kaz could say whatever bullcrap he wants and some people on here will take it as the truth without questioning it, then defend it.

What other racing games on consoles have a separate driver and performance rating confirmed for matchmaking?



You do understand, things are popular because they appeal to a lot of people.

I don't think you know how this really works, people bought GT off the back of it's previous titles and franchise loyalty. Along with advertising. You can look at the numbers and say it was popular, but you can also look at the damage GT5 and then GT6 ( which didn't sell well on launch, PS4 is not the reason) did to PDI's reputation.

So sales may say they were popular, but they certainly were not popular once the money was laid down.

 

[NixxxoN]

GT5 sold 10 million copies, a tiny fraction played online. All players does not mean all gamers, it means all GT players. Taking out a proper single player means they have given the middle finger to the majority of GT players.

GT5 was released 7 years ago, things evolve, times change, more and more players go online everyday.
Call of duty also used to be an offline single player.

 

[sebmugi]

Do you think they will be buyable / winnable in the game I hope .. Or they will be just for those who buy the collector version of GT sport..
what do you think ???

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

I know the frustration of the missing single player modes available in previous GTs. Maybe if we bug PD/Sony/Kaz for so much, they will add them.

At this point the vision between Kaz and gamers about GT Sport is still totally different.

Kaz looking GT Sport as software for competitive racing game - which can produce more new competitive (real) racer candidate, but us gamers still looking GT Sport as a standard video game -- collecting cars, moneys, tuneup, etc.

 

[Northstar]

Call of duty also used to be an offline single player.

CoD still features a traditional campaign mode though despite it's focus on online play.

 

[NixxxoN]

CoD still features a traditional campaign mode though despite it's focus on online play.

Got shorter just as Gran Turismo offline mode. Anyway we will see how GTS offline mode ends up with. We may see updates and stuff. And we will have the livery editor in which I personally will spend lots of hours.

 

[Imari]

...yet you have that highly disrespectful attitude towards Kaz. *slow clapping*

Have you actually listened to some of the bollocks that comes out of the man's mouth? After the last ten years, I think that it's completely reasonable if people want to have that attitude towards Kaz, just like Peter Molyneux and Sean Murray. He makes interesting games, but he also lets his mouth get way, way ahead of what he can actually achieve. More power to you if you want to treat him with respect, but I don't think you can be surprised if people don't any more.

At this point, we all know that we have to take anything that the head of the studio says with a big grain of salt regardless of your opinion of him as a person, and that's not a particularly good position. Basically anything that Kaz has said could either not make it into the game at all, only make it in later as DLC/updates or be changed drastically from what he's so far described. He is an entirely untrustworthy spokesman for his own game series, and there's a lot of historical evidence to back that up.

Hell, we're two months out from release and we still haven't seen weather. You can colour me totally unsurprised if that one happens not to make the day zero version of the game.

 

[Northstar]

Got shorter just as Gran Turismo offline mode.

They haven't gotten that much shorter though. CoD3 was the first one released on consoles and had roughly a 10 hour campaign, the latest, Infinite Warfare seems to be roughly 6-7 hours (I've seen some say 5, but I'm guessing those are speed runs). That's also ignoring the fact it still follows the traditional FPS single player mode setup, they haven't changed it into a bunch of training tutorials like GTS seemingly has.

Compare that to GT where in GT5 there was probably 75+ hours of single player. Obviously we don't know how long it will take to finish the single player in GTS, but I'm going to guess it's nowhere close to the hour count of past games.

We may see updates and stuff.

Until we see something saying such things are planned, we can only go by what's been shown. What may or may not happen isn't relevant to the discussion.

 

[SeanKtrueno]

I know it's just a sketch but this Blue Moon Bay concept art from the IGN Japan shows reflective roads, so weather has been planned from the start?

http://jp.ign.com/gran-turismo-sport/15983/feature/sport1

 

[jm79]

Seems you missed the link, which is odd, since it's in the post you quoted:

If you don't want to be presumptuous, I'd recommend not making a bunch of assumptions and basing your response on them.

There is no "jumping down the guy's throat" — it's a response (one the member even liked in return). There's no sarcasm either. If you want to read a sarcastic tone in a post, that's your choice, but at least recognize that.

I'll give you the PCars thing, I didn't research that enough. But it doesn't change my point, which was that you jumped on the guy for stating his opinion on what he thought might be the case in an unreleased game, based on some decent evidence.

Your reaction was overkill, in my opinion (do I have to keep saying that?). You can deal with that or not. Up to you.

But as a mod, in my opinion, you shouldn't jump on these members so hard. It's always the same type of comments you always jump on: the positive comments, from members who are obviously fans of the game and are hoping for the best and state their hopes and opinions. Sure, it might not be realistic - I don't agree with them most of the time - but this is GT Planet. Why can these guys not be enthusiastic without being jumped on by you? At the most basic level, the opposing extreme, the negative opinions of JonnyP, Imari, Imarobot, et al, are exactly the same, and just as acceptable.

This is about opinions, everyone is entitled to one. You are entitled to yours, i will never try to change it, but please, please, I beseech you to kindly think about your approach to this discussion as a whole. You may be coming across as less impartial than you think.

And it's more important for you. I'm just a random member with an opinion that isn't as extreme as you may assume. You're the Editor-in-Chief.

Only a suggestion, plucked from the very depths of my opinion: please try to rein it in a touch.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Tired Tyres]

GT5 was released 7 years ago, things evolve, times change, more and more players go online everyday.
Call of duty also used to be an offline single player.

Yes and last Gen "It's all about online", this Gen "It's all about online" next Gen "It's all about online." That was a lie then, it's a lie now and it will be a lie tomorrow. Gaming is about Multiplayer AND solo play. It has been and will only be about those two things. One does not - never has and never will negate the other.

Got shorter just as Gran Turismo offline mode. Anyway we will see how GTS offline mode ends up with. We may see updates and stuff. And we will have the livery editor in which I personally will spend lots of hours.

Doesn't work on any level. NOTHING revealed so far indicates any reason for a non online player to buy this. As for adding it post release - ask Street Fighter V fans how well that works.

 

[PzR Slim]

I'll give you the PCars thing, I didn't research that enough. But it doesn't change my point, which was that you jumped on the guy for stating his opinion on what he thought might be the case in an unreleased game, based on some decent evidence.

Your reaction was overkill, in my opinion (do I have to keep saying that?). You can deal with that or not. Up to you.

But as a mod, in my opinion, you shouldn't jump on these members so hard. It's always the same type of comments you always jump on: the positive comments, from members who are obviously fans of the game and are hoping for the best and state their hopes and opinions. Sure, it might not be realistic - I don't agree with them most of the time - but this is GT Planet. Why can these guys not be enthusiastic without being jumped on by you? At the most basic level, the opposing extreme, the negative opinions of JonnyP, Imari, Imarobot, et al, are exactly the same, and just as acceptable.

This is about opinions, everyone is entitled to one. You are entitled to yours, i will never try to change it, but please, please, I beseech you to kindly think about your approach to this discussion as a whole. You may be coming across as less impartial than you think.

And it's more important for you. I'm just a random member with an opinion that isn't as extreme as you may assume. You're the Editor-in-Chief.

Only a suggestion, plucked from the very depths of my opinion: please try to rein it in a touch.

Thanks for listening.

I'd spend more time worrying about your own posting habits than those of other members who are free to express themselves in any way they want as long as it's within the AUP. Interestingly I don't see you jumping to the defence of those with negative opinions

 

[jm79]

Yes and last Gen "It's all about online", this Gen "It's all about online" next Gen "It's all about online." That was a lie then, it's a lie now and it will be a lie tomorrow. Gaming is about Multiplayer AND solo play. It has been and will only be about those two things. One does not - never has and never will negate the other.

Agreed, thank god! (but games sometimes do spectacularly well without solo play...)

Doesn't work on any level. NOTHING revealed so far indicates any reason for a non online player to buy this. As for adding it post release - ask Street Fighter V fans how well that works.

I see what you mean (perhaps that's why Kaz was bandying about that weird 15% thing, to placate people like you?), but I think there are some things at least, for the solo player. Not as enticing a proposition as every other game in the series though for sure. Change is good though! You should race online more Even in the crash-fest of DC, it was great fun!

 

[jm79]

I'd spend more time worrying about your own posting habits than those of other members who are free to express themselves in any way they want as long as it's within the AUP. Interestingly I don't see you jumping to the defence of those with negative opinions

I totally support your freedom to voice an opinion within the AUP, as you may have noticed, if you had read the post! My issue was with @SlipZtrEm 's handling of the discussion in general!

That was also just an opinion. (Need to get a shortcut key for that phrase!)

edit: oops, accidental double there, sorry

 

[Tired Tyres]

Agreed, thank god! (but games sometimes do spectacularly well without solo play...)



I see what you mean (perhaps that's why Kaz was bandying about that weird 15% thing, to placate people like you?), but I think there are some things at least, for the solo player. Not as enticing a proposition as every other game in the series though for sure. Change is good though! You should race online more Even in the crash-fest of DC, it was great fun!

I raced online in GT5P. I raced online in GTS Beta. It is NOT how I want to spend my gaming time.

 

[PzR Slim]

I totally support your freedom to voice an opinion within the AUP, as you may have noticed, if you had read the post! My issue was with @SlipZtrEm 's handling of the discussion in general!

That was also just an opinion. (Need to get a shortcut key for that phrase!)

I read your whole post and still stand fully behind my point.

 

[danh25]

Today, if a game like overwatch, which does not have a single player roll, sells 35 million copies in just over a year or game as a GTA5 (one of the biggest single player games today, as well as the best-selling one) Are getting upgrades and expansions only for the online part, because the most played part of the game; Already carrying these 2 examples you understand well that people are much more predisposed to playing online than the other way around.