Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[sems4arsenal]

100% agree, I still think GT will sell the pants off anything else that combats it but in terms of generating hype before release now, it's a bit of a tough thing to predict.

What could GT Sport do to legitimately excite the majority of gamers?

I think the name is a mistake, heck to this day we have no idea why it's called that.

I also think not showing it at PSX was a massive mistake, I fear with Horizon and TLG new details at next year's E3 and the possibility of Bend's and SSM's new game announcments GTS won't be mentioned alot.

They need to start showing stuff that is impressive and they need to start soon, god help them if the beta had issues. Halo 5 suffered a lot thanks to Halo MCC so they need to have everything sorted it out.

And one last thing I hope they don't milk the Fia license for marketing like they did with Vision GT with GT6.

 

[ScottPuss20]

If only we could see what was going on at PD's Tokyo Studio...

 

[GTchicken]

If only we could see what was going on at PD's Tokyo Studio...

In a small room with a single desk lamp and a powerful computer, there is one guy who's meticulously putting polygon by polygon together of each car.

 

[Turnaround]

GT4 and GT5 were both a pretty massive deal in their day.

I wasn't around here for GT4, but I sure do remember the build-up to GT5. So much buzz and excitement!

Just check out the comments section for this E3 2010 article and compare it to today's comments on anything Gran Turismo. Or even better look at how many pages the GT5 Latest News & Discussion thread ultimately had (2563!). This site, or the GT forums at least just seemed to be so much more lively and pleasant back then.

Boy have things changed.

 

[cutmeamango]

...Or am I thinking too much on some PR bull dust?

Any game that sells for a long time (if you accompany these sales things you'd see), continues to sell heavily discounted, but generally the bulk of adoption comes in the first semester. And yes, major games are bundled with consoles, but if years of NPD shown anything, it's not a big representative of sales (see Halo 5 in NA, Forza 6 in the UK, Uncharted Collection in NA for recent cases), but it certainly helps in the long run. And digital by all representations (of big games) is ~20% of the market today.
Anyway, any game they say it sold 10, 15, 20 million, will have a lower average price, will have been bundled (or packaged with other games), and will reach those numbers after a couple years or more. That's the nature of big games, they keep selling at a healthy pace for a long time.

It's not PR bull or well, everything is PR bull.

That's a fantastic way to kill the franchise.

Yes, pre-loading (or "advertising" by having the installer in your system) A FREE BETA would kill the franchise...

I think the name is a mistake, heck to this day we have no idea why it's called that.

I also think not showing it at PSX was a massive mistake, I fear with Horizon and TLG new details at next year's E3 and the possibility of Bend's and SSM's new game announcments GTS won't be mentioned alot.

They need to start showing stuff that is impressive and they need to start soon, god help them if the beta had issues. Halo 5 suffered a lot thanks to Halo MCC so they need to have everything sorted it out.

And one last thing I hope they don't milk the Fia license for marketing like they did with Vision GT with GT6.

Everything was a mistake, they are doomed!
GT SPORT because it is a (e)Sport platform. Remember, FIA championship? Prize at annual prize giving?
(Temporary?) Logo showing a driver, not a car. Images of a trophy.
"It will redefine the very definition of “gaming” and “motorsports.”" (At the website.)

They probably need to spell it out even more this big mystery.
---
Horizon I can even hand to you as a contender for overall mind-share, even being a new IP, but The Last Guardian?
Ico and SotC must have passed 1 million worldwide with the new collection. They are very niche games, and "game enthusiasts" expectations in the internet are not a barometer for the actual market. You'd think by the Shenmue 3 reaction it'll sell 30 million copies...

E3 is in June, if they do not miss their program, the open free BETA should have started since June is mid, not early 2016 (but who knows).

Betas do have problems, that's why they make beta tests. Halo MCC was not a beta, it was remastered collection. Its bugs hurt Halo 5? I do not play Halo, or shooters, but with Destiny's success it seems the Halo "issue" (if we can call it that already) was Bungie leaving.

And they'll "milk" the FIA attachment, that's certain.
"Hey if you win this FIA championship, you'll receive a trophy at the same FIA event as Hamilton and Ogier! FIA!"

I'd wait for the championships to be ratified in a FIA council before any other news.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Everything was a mistake, they are doomed!
GT SPORT because it is a (e)Sport platform. Remember, FIA championship? Prize at annual prize giving?
(Temporary?) Logo showing a driver, not a car. Images of a trophy.
"It will redefine the very definition of “gaming” and “motorsports.”" (At the website.)

They probably need to spell it out even more this big mystery.

You've proven my point, the average casual gamer reading that will be turned off immediatly. And am I supposed to care that the fastest ever players get to meet famous racing drivers? how does this sell me the game? and no they don't need to spell it out.

Horizon I can even hand to you as a contender for overall mind-share, even being a new IP, but The Last Guardian?
Ico and SotC must have passed 1 million worldwide with the new collection. They are very niche games, and "game enthusiasts" expectations in the internet are not a barometer for the actual market. You'd think by the Shenmue 3 reaction it'll sell 30 million copies...

Funny that you're laughing about TLG when it's being talked about more than GTS.

Betas do have problems, that's why they make beta tests. Halo MCC was not a beta, it was remastered collection. Its bugs hurt Halo 5? I do not play Halo, or shooters, but with Destiny's success it seems the Halo "issue" (if we can call it that already) was Bungie leaving.

And they'll "milk" the FIA attachment, that's certain.
"Hey if you win this FIA championship, you'll receive a trophy at the same FIA event as Hamilton and Ogier! FIA!"

I never said that, it left a bad taste in people's mouths with 343, if the beta had a terrible network code, alot of people will think twice about buying the Esport Granturismo.

 

[cutmeamango]

You've proven my point, the average casual gamer reading that will be turned off immediatly. And am I supposed to care that the fastest ever players get to meet famous racing drivers? how does this sell me the game? and no they don't need to spell it out.

Funny that you're laughing about TLG when it's being talked about more than GTS.

I never said that, it left a bad taste in people's mouths with 343, if the beta had a terrible network code, alot of people will think twice about buying the Esport Granturismo.

I dunno, Starcraft 2, DotA, LoL, CS:GO all follow a similar model and still have healthy user bases. "Casuals" not only watch competitions, but play and invest money regularly on these games. People still play football in amateur leagues even though the chances of becoming professional are very low and the same follows for every other sport. That's demonstrably not a strong point of contention against competitive events.

While I can't measure that, I suppose TLG has had more buzz than GTS since its announcement in 2009.

I know you never said that, that's why I started the argument with the other phrase.
Betas have problems, that's expected of betas (which MCC is not).
If GTS ends its 'beta test' with netcode problems, then it's perfectly reasonable to say some people will not buy it.

 

[sems4arsenal]

@cutmeamango are you really suggesting that GTS can really be compared to lol or Dota?

 

[cutmeamango]

@cutmeamango are you really suggesting that GTS can really be compared to lol or Dota?

That they are online, competition oriented and that they most likely have an exponential distribution in relation to skill/achievements of players? Certainly.

 

[Samus]

Difference with those games is they're fantasy based with no real life version for people to watch. Streaming/viewing of a racing game will never pick up the same steam when people can just as easily watch real life racing. Even games like CS:GO whilst being set in a real world, there is nothing like that to watch in the real world except maybe paintball tournaments or something.

 

[FoRiZon]

You wont believe how huge those games compared to any games.

The only competing games besides it is Minecraft and COD. GTA5 O and some other FPS and RTS games came awfully close.

Other genres arent as huge because, to mainstream, its a rather niche hobby and not to mention the social aspects and accessibility (it mostly played on internet cafes).

 

[cutmeamango]

Difference with those games is they're fantasy based with no real life version for people to watch. Streaming/viewing of a racing game will never pick up the same steam when people can just as easily watch real life racing. Even games like CS:GO whilst being set in a real world, there is nothing like that to watch in the real world except maybe paintball tournaments or something.

Yes racing games have the oddity of looking close to what they simulate, there are many other inconsequential differences between all those games including Street Fighter, FIFA, Donkey Kong and Tetris (and iRacing).
But again, they are inconsequential. If TI5 has 2mi concurrent viewers, and Capcom Cup has 200k, and Anti-Freeze NASCAR final race has 20k does not matter. If one you click, the other you tap and the other you pray does not matter either. Just like it doesn't matter if NFL has a game average of 15mi viewers while Formula 1 and MLS barely reach 1 million in the US.

What was being discussed is that "the average casual gamer reading that will be turned off immediatly" by the notion of a e-sport/competitive orientation (skill curve being the main turn off). And that is, again, demonstrably not true. The average, casual person does watch professionals, practice and invest money in their game/sport of interest.


Parallel to all that, just on terms of popularity of organized sports, it's well understood that accessibility is the big "culprit".

 

[Samus]

Yes racing games have the oddity of looking close to what they simulate, there are many other inconsequential differences between all those games including Street Fighter, FIFA, Donkey Kong and Tetris (and iRacing).
But again, they are inconsequential. If TI5 has 2mi concurrent viewers, and Capcom Cup has 200k, and Anti-Freeze NASCAR final race has 20k does not matter. If one you click, the other you tap and the other you pray does not matter either. Just like it doesn't matter if NFL has a game average of 15mi viewers while Formula 1 barely reaches 1 million in the US.

What was being discussed is that "the average casual gamer reading that will be turned off immediatly" by the notion of a e-sport/competitive orientation (skill curve being the main turn off). And that is, again, demonstrably not true. The average, casual person does watch professionals, practice and invest money in their game/sport of interest.


Parallel to all that, just on terms of popularity of organized sports, it's well understood that accessibility is the big "culprit".

Well what he probably means is that people will still have an interest in the game but have no interest in the competetive/esport side of things. I'm sure millions of people play those popular E-Sport games with absolutely no interest in that competition at the highest level. So saying that most people will not be interested in "Getting an FIA award next to the real drivers" is pretty much the same as saying most DOTA players are not interested in the million dollar top prizes, or whatever it is.

"Turned off" may be the wrong phrase since certainly it won't totally stop them playing the game but for most people it's not going to be a draw to the game.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Yes racing games have the oddity of looking close to what they simulate, there are many other inconsequential differences between all those games including Street Fighter, FIFA, Donkey Kong and Tetris (and iRacing).
But again, they are inconsequential. If TI5 has 2mi concurrent viewers, and Capcom Cup has 200k, and Anti-Freeze NASCAR final race has 20k does not matter. If one you click, the other you tap and the other you pray does not matter either. Just like it doesn't matter if NFL has a game average of 15mi viewers while Formula 1 barely reaches 1 million in the US.

What was being discussed is that "the average casual gamer reading that will be turned off immediatly" by the notion of a e-sport/competitive orientation (skill curve being the main turn off). And that is, again, demonstrably not true. The average, casual person does watch professionals, practice and invest money in their game/sport of interest.


Parallel to all that, just on terms of popularity of organized sports, it's well understood that accessibility is the big "culprit".

So why then isn't Iracing taking the world by storm.

As @Samus said my wording might be a bit off, but that's the point, start selling the game to people not interested in the Fia competition. Heck I've done GTacademy and have no interest in this.

 

[GTPorsche]

Because the other games don't require hundreds of dollars worth of peripherals to participate to the fullest in.

 

[ToyGTone]

Uhh...because no one is interested in cars or even vehicles in general...and more interested in just murdering the other person...I guess?

 

[FoRiZon]

Mainstream people wont even take interest on games. They just follow whatever their friends are up to and said games are much easier.

 

[cutmeamango]

Well what he probably means is that people will still have an interest in the game but have no interest in the competetive/esport side of things. I'm sure millions of people play those popular E-Sport games with absolutely no interest in that competition at the highest level. So saying that most people will not be interested in "Getting an FIA award next to the real drivers" is pretty much the same as saying most DOTA players are not interested in the million dollar top prizes, or whatever it is.

"Turned off" may be the wrong phrase since certainly it won't totally stop them playing the game but for most people it's not going to be a draw to the game.

Fair enough, but I'd argue that interest/appreciation for the highest level of skill is one of the main draws along with being an enjoyable activity in its competitive structure (even without tangible rewards).
It seems to hold true looking at sports trends where big stars in one club or generation tend to lead an increase in participation/support (and exposure).

So why then isn't Iracing taking the world by storm.

As @Samus said my wording might be a bit off, but that's the point, start selling the game to people not interested in the Fia competition. Heck I've done GTacademy and have no interest in this.

\/

Because the other games don't require hundreds of dollars worth of peripherals to participate to the fullest in.

Uhh...because no one is interested in cars or even vehicles in general...and more interested in just murdering the other person...I guess?

These two posts answer it well about its accessibility issues and general interest.
I'd add that iRacing apparently begun to try and position itself to a larger audience with its revamped site, better UI in game and market approach. But I don't know, I'd guess their current situation is sustainable enough to keep all interested parties happy too since Nurb release made their servers crash.

And about GTS positioning to people not interested in online/competitive play, I suppose it is in their marketing plans? They did inform there's a Campaign and Arcade mode, at least.

 

[Samus]

They did inform there's a Campaign and Arcade mode, at least.

Indeed they did, and I think what @sems4arsenal is saying they really need to start promoting that side of the game if the casual masses are going to be interested. Which I'm sure they will do, we've only really had an initial tease so far.

 

[Formidable]

So why then isn't Iracing taking the world by storm.

Hmm let's see:
-Need a good PC
-Have to renew a membership
-The additional content is LUDICROUSLY priced
-Need a good wheel to race

iRacing is practically a money vacuum

Anyways I think everyone else has basically said what I have, so back on topic.

And about GTS positioning to people not interested in online/competitive play, I suppose it is in their marketing plans? They did inform there's a Campaign and Arcade mode, at least.

It does look like they are moving toward promoting online play for this game, but knowing that that there will (or may be) single player modes, I think they'll still have them there for those who prefer it

 

[NixxxoN]

Oh boy, this is why GTSport needed to be at PSX. Nobody is talking about it. I'm being hyperbolic abit there but I'm getting worried.

Please dont use polls like these as an absolute truth or something.

Did they ask you? Did they ask me? Did they ask any of us here? No, they only asked a bunch of people of who knows where

 

[GTPorsche]

Please dont use polls like these as an absolute truth or something.

Did they ask you? Did they ask me? Did they ask any of us here? No, they only asked a bunch of people of who knows where

I believe that is specifically a survey given to people who are in the retail business.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Please dont use polls like these as an absolute truth or something.

Did they ask you? Did they ask me? Did they ask any of us here? No, they only asked a bunch of people of who knows where

The whole point of a poll is not to cherrypick whom you ask the questions so as not to skew the results toward or away from your intended target. So asking us sim racers specifically would defeat the purpose of finding out the level of interested generally among gamers. It isn't an absolute truth, it's a poll and I think we're all smart enough to know that we take it with a grain of salt.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

How many were digital downloads?

As far as I know, none. I don't think it has ever been available for download in PS Store.

Oh boy, this is why GTSport needed to be at PSX. Nobody is talking about it. I'm being hyperbolic abit there but I'm getting worried.

The problems with using this poll as any kind of barometer would be that the question asks retailers what game they are most looking forward to. If the question asked customers what games they are looking forward to then it would be a better reflection maybe.

I say games because if you asked me personally for just one game I'd say Uncharted 4 myself. If you asked me for more than one, say 5 for example, GTS would probably be in there. Not my most anticipated game next year but it certainly doesn't mean I'm not interested in it. If the survey did ask for games I'm certain the percentages would be a lot closer and a lot more games on there.

What is also not clear is whether they are answering the question as a retailer or a consumer. I'm pretty sure the 3rd most successful retail game of 2015 in the survey (FIFA 16) successor would be more anticipated in terms of revenue for the businesses than quite a few listed here.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Please dont use polls like these as an absolute truth or something.

Did they ask you? Did they ask me? Did they ask any of us here? No, they only asked a bunch of people of who knows where

That's the idea of a Survey.

 

[NixxxoN]

That's the idea of a Survey.

Unless this kind of survey is huge in terms of people participating, it doesnt mean anything. Its only a bunch of people's opinions and tastes.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

My main question is why people are looking forward to the FFVII remake when Square's already said it won't be out 2016!

Please dont use polls like these as an absolute truth or something.

Did they ask you? Did they ask me? Did they ask any of us here? No, they only asked a bunch of people of who knows where

@sems4arsenal didn't - he just posted it for discussion. Not that asking here would provide anything, either.

 

[sems4arsenal]

@SlipZtrEm With Square saying it will be a multi part series you never know.

 

[eran0004]

I wasn't around here for GT4, but I sure do remember the build-up to GT5. So much buzz and excitement!

Just check out the comments section for this E3 2010 article and compare it to today's comments on anything Gran Turismo. Or even better look at how many pages the GT5 Latest News & Discussion thread ultimately had (2563!). This site, or the GT forums at least just seemed to be so much more lively and pleasant back then.

Boy have things changed.

Most of the pages were produced in less then a single year, building up towards the release on the 24th of November 2010. Each point in the graph below represents 100 pages, except the first and the last points which represents the first and the last pages.

As for GT Sport, just check the Trailers thread. Even though just one short trailer has been released so far and not much is known, it's already up at 2000+ posts. When more information is shared, I'm sure that thread will kick off as well.

It's also worth noting that back in 2010, there was no like-feature, so a number of posts was probably of the "thumbs up" or "+1" kind.

 

[GTPorsche]

it's already up at 2000+ posts.

Because people can't stop posting in it even though there's been nothing to discuss since October.