Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Griffith500]

It's not just about graphics. With the GPGPU capability of the PS4's software base, having twice the GPU power is really quite something. Or at least it would be if anyone is doing anything interesting with GPGPU yet; if only there were someone who had experience with wringing every last drop out of even the trickiest SIMD hardware...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

God of War PS4 NEO, that will the the showcase of NEO power and maybe Naughty Dog will release another Last of Us kind of game on NEO.

 

[Laffinassasin]

There is absolutely nothing 'mysterious' about it. They've gone over exactly what it does several times and have officially debunked any notion that it provides PSVR with some secret graphics enhancing sauce.

I wasn't talking about what it does and doesn't do, Sony have stated such outright has others have shown. So the VR box does nothing of note to use much power at all. My question is why does it have a 36 watt PSU then? That is a mystery right now along with what chips are in it.

I read it as inside the processor box. The ability was in the box already so they decided to offload from the PS4 to free up some resources.
Quote from article:
"Since they did want the social screen, thus making the box necessary, they also decided to drop PlayStation VR’s custom 3D positional audio processing onto the box. This does technically offload some processing that the PS4 would otherwise have to do. Another representative explained to me that the audio offloading decision was more of a “since it’s there anyway” choice, rather than a performance necessity to allow the PS4 to handle VR rendering."

Right so it seems with this a chip inside the VR box that does 3D audio processing. How much power would this use?

Although I thought PS4 had dedicated audio that wouldn't take anything away from VR graphics etc nor help anything by being freed up? Bit confused about that to be honest.

On-topic: Is GTS definitely going to be at E3 in a reasonably big way? Like new details/reveals of cars/tracks?

 

[TayeezSA]

When GTSport launches on the proposed launch day and everything has been fixed.

 

[jpbonadio]

Cropped two offscreen images from pictures someone took at the Japan event:


This is not a scape, it shows one of the settings/garage where the cars are showcased:

And the next is a scape. I'm happy to see that my car will be in GTS. Well, not exactly the same model, but it's close enough:

 

[GordonS]

A bit off-topic: just imagine the hype crash if Sony doesn't reveal anything of PS Neo yet at E3. It may be that they extend the Neo silence till the end of the year. Hope not.

 

[chengman]

Here's the thing about VR. It needs to be above 90fps and at least 1080p in each lens to prevent the sickness and nausea, along with it not looking like a potato. The so called PS Neo will maybe be able to do that, but 4K is never going to happen. Not unless the PS4 runs a GTX980ti and a HDMI 2.0 IO

 

[Laffinassasin]

A bit off-topic: just imagine the hype crash if Sony doesn't reveal anything of PS Neo yet at E3. It may be that they extend the Neo silence till the end of the year. Hope not.

1, Outside gaming forums there is not much of any hype. Mostly negative, honestly.

2, Dual PS4/Neo enabled games can/will go on sale from September 20th apparently and so I can't see Sony being quiet much longer given that is 3 months away (I assume game packaging from that date above will have details of the enhancements and the official name of the console on them).

 

[Alex p.]

When GTSport launches on the proposed launch day and everything has been fixed.

Lmao gotta love this meme.
I hope they show something new at E3. And if not, we still have this year: PAX, GamesCom, TGS, Paris Games Week, PSX.

 

[Viperman240]

Still a lot of wiggle room for interpretation there. Base PS4 has weather but Neo can have dynamic weather offline, just not online. Base PS4 has 20 cars offline, Neo has 40 cars online etc.

There isn't much wiggle room though, having dynamic weather regardless of it being offline or not is still a feature the base model PS4 cannot due, thus making it exclusive. Same goes for you saying 40 cars online, that would mean there must be Neo only servers as the base model PS4 would not be able to handle 40 cars online.

As stated in the rules, you cannot split up the user base, and by making the player count higher, it would do just that.

The most that could be done with GTS is increase the detail in graphics, going from medium settings to high for example, better textures, shadows, AA, LoD ect. As well as upping the split screen count from 2 to 4.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This is why the matchmaking/ranking/driver rating system is going to be critical to the success of this game from the get go. If you aren't matched up with people of your skill and safety level within a couple of handful of races it's going to get awfully frustrating for casual players, especially if PD leaves everyone in the dark with details.

That's fine and all but even the best eSports games have issues with mmr systems being fair, and that's before we even get into the meta of what car seems to outdo others. In previous GT games it seemed the GTR was far too strong, and in a game like this if it is still an issue then other people will feel it's an unfair system to play in, on every measure of ranking. Not just the lower but the upper level of players too. The tough part about esport games is balancing across the board of the game so one character or car in this case doesn't outweigh every other.

Also from my experience in other games, when you start competitive play you don't always get matched up from the start with people you should be with because the system has to figure out your level of play. So everyone may get frustrated at some point, the key is to realize if you're going to do it for fun or a highly competitive level.

 

[GordonS]

There isn't much wiggle room though, having dynamic weather regardless of it being offline or not is still a feature the base model PS4 cannot due, thus making it exclusive. Same goes for you saying 40 cars online, that would mean there must be Neo only servers as the base model PS4 would not be able to handle 40 cars online.

As stated in the rules, you cannot split up the user base, and by making the player count higher, it would do just that.

The most that could be done with GTS is increase the detail in graphics, going from medium settings to high for example, better textures, shadows, AA, LoD ect. As well as upping the split screen count from 2 to 4.

But what if Sony downgrades PS4's GTSport with a day one patch so that it can hold the dynamic whatever aaand that way they could blow the internet with Neo goodies?

 

[AleksandarSRB]

But what if Sony downgrades PS4's GTSport with a day one patch so that it can hold the dynamic whatever aaand that way they could blow the internet with Neo goodies?

Thay won't do that because, why regular PS4 ovners would buy GTS with graphic from PS3 games...

 

[Johnnypenso]

There isn't much wiggle room though, having dynamic weather regardless of it being offline or not is still a feature the base model PS4 cannot due, thus making it exclusive. Same goes for you saying 40 cars online, that would mean there must be Neo only servers as the base model PS4 would not be able to handle 40 cars online.

As stated in the rules, you cannot split up the user base, and by making the player count higher, it would do just that.

The most that could be done with GTS is increase the detail in graphics, going from medium settings to high for example, better textures, shadows, AA, LoD ect. As well as upping the split screen count from 2 to 4.

Sorry, my mistake. It should have read,

Base PS4 has 20 cars offline, Neo has 40 cars offline etc.

In which case, car count could remain online at 16 or whatever it is. So long as all the differences between the two versions are either visual or offline I don't see why there would be any limitations outside of that.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That's fine and all but even the best eSports games have issues with mmr systems being fair, and that's before we even get into the meta of what car seems to outdo others. In previous GT games it seemed the GTR was far too strong, and in a game like this if it is still an issue then other people will feel it's an unfair system to play in, on every measure of ranking. Not just the lower but the upper level of players too. The tough part about esport games is balancing across the board of the game so one character or car in this case doesn't outweigh every other.

That's got me thinking: the one good thing about GT Sport's (comparatively) tiny car list is Polyphony has a far easier time balancing the cars, especially if tuning parts aren't available. It's almost impossible to balance cars across the various tracks of a game.

As an example closest to the traditional GT experience: FM6 has the PI system (similar to the PP system in GT). AFAIK, a car's PI is determined by its lap time on a special test track that is meant to represent a rough average of all the tracks in the game. Since it's a comparative model, this is why PI ratings change from one game to the next.

But with hundreds of cars, all capable of thousands of possible tuning permutations (especially with engine and drivetrain swaps), some anomalies show up. Cars built to do well at Daytona, for example, are almost useless elsewhere. Road America and Le Mans both require a power-heavy approach to tuning if you want to be competitive online. Handling is what makes or breaks a car's chances at Lime Rock. You get the idea.

It's almost a blessing in disguise that GT doesn't have leaderboards for all its tracks, as it'd make it far clearer which cars are the dominant ones. As is, it requires a lot of experience with online racing to really know, or the Seasonals (which only represent specialized situations). I'm very curious to see how GT Sport attacks this particular situation... who knows, maybe we'll even get leaderboards, finally.

Also from my experience in other games, when you start competitive play you don't always get matched up anyways from the start with people you should be because they system has to figure out your level of play. So everyone may get frustrated at some point, the key is to realize if you're going to do it for fun or a highly competitive level.

Oh, indeed. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Also from my experience in other games, when you start competitive play you don't always get matched up anyways from the start with people you should be because they system has to figure out your level of play. So everyone may get frustrated at some point, the key is to realize if you're going to do it for fun or a highly competitive level.

Of course, that's why I suggested a couple of handfuls of races before your driver rating begins to sort itself out and starts to move you towards where you belong. Obviously the further you go the more narrow the level of refinement.

Along these lines I think it would be a good idea to have a qualifier TT of some sort with a stock car. Everyone can run it and your initial placement in online races, rather than being random, can be based your lap times. Yes some people will game the system but they could do that anyway and at least it'll give those that are taking the game a little more seriously a good head start on racing against people of similar skill levels.

 

[solidboss07]

I do remember 800x600 pixels being state of the art on PC and getting 15fps in a driving game would be reasonable in order to experience the super high resolution.
A 15fps 4k experience would still mean a 60fps experience possible in 1080p mode on the PS4, and without there seeming to be any rules about minimum frame rate on games published on the Sony platform (a few PS3 and PS4 games have come out which go down to 15fps in situations of demand) I couldn't rule it out there being 4k modes on the base PS4 in order to allow a 4k mode on the Neo.

I disagree with you all. Upon reading the Leaked document about Neo it shows irrelevance about 4k on Neo. If PS4 can out put an image at 1080p@60fps then Neo must do the same.

Then Neo can output 8k at 2fps if PD want it to. PS4 doesn't need to do the same. Neo must only match or exceed the PS4 output (the 1080p@60fps image)

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Of course, that's why I suggested a couple of handfuls of races before your driver rating begins to sort itself out and starts to move you towards where you belong. Obviously the further you go the more narrow the level of refinement.

I know it wasn't a disagreement, just saying similar thought and more. People will need to be patient before they get to an area where they feel they can thrive and move up the ranks at their own pace.

Along these lines I think it would be a good idea to have a qualifier TT of some sort with a stock car. Everyone can run it and your initial placement in online races, rather than being random, can be based your lap times. Yes some people will game the system but they could do that anyway and at least it'll give those that are taking the game a little more seriously a good head start on racing against people of similar skill levels.

That might work, the thing is games in esports usually start you in two schools of thought, at the bottom or placements. Starting at the bottom some times seems best for when you know you're new to this type of thing but aren't sure how far up you can go just yet. However, for those of us who play many racing games that may be a turn off because you could easily have placements that stick you where you belong theoretically from the get go, without having to grind your way to where you should be.

 

[GTPorsche]

The issue with placements is that the game doesn't know your skill level until you are among other people and have completed one or more rated races. They could theoretically use a rating system based on how well one does in the single player content, but not everyone is going to want to do that.

 

[MisterWaffles]

According to the latest interview with Kaz in the news section, it seems "50% complete" was a reference to what he wants to see on the PS4 in general. So does that mean we need double the expectations for GT7?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The issue with placements is that the game doesn't know your skill level until you are among other people and have completed one or more rated races. They could theoretically use a rating system based on how well one does in the single player content, but not everyone is going to want to do that.

There is still the issue of even if there is single player content, and the fact that the AI already show rubberband likeness in the arcade like mode around the oval. Thus this isn't a very clear cut system to base off of, also placements in most games don't know your base level of play and for that very reason is why you do them. They give you 10 games in league before you're placed each season, these games put you in with players of different degrees of skill. Then after you've won games in a certain degree you get placed in that rank, from there you work your way forward.

 

[GTPorsche]

There is still the issue of even if there is single player content, and the fact that the AI already show rubberband likeness in the arcade like mode around the oval. Thus this isn't a very clear cut system to base off of, also placements in most games don't know your base level of play and for that very reason is why you do them. They give you 10 games in league before you're placed each season, these games put you in with players of different degrees of skill. Then after you've won games in a certain degree you get placed in that rank, from there you work your way forward.

Yeah, that's how Rocket League does it.

Everyone is going to have to navigate through the punters and the aliens to get their ratings done.

 

[GTEFGHA]

According to the latest interview with Kaz in the news section, it seems "50% complete" was a reference to what he wants to see on the PS4 in general. So does that mean we need double the expectations for GT7?

GT7 "Double the excitement double the dissapointment"

 

[MisterWaffles]

GT7 "Double the excitement double the dissapointment"

I think you're a few years early on that one.

 

[mister dog]

I think they're going to surprise everyone and call it the PS5

Aah the game industry nowadays.

- Release new console that's barely up to date tech wise to keep costs low and profits high.
- Realize console can't keep up anymore after 3 years
- Release new console disguised as an update to not piss off gamers
- Rinse and repeat.

They could as well have called it PS5 right? Or doesn't the upgrade to the processing power and the GPU warrant saying that? My bet is that if they can pull this off, 3 years after "Neo" PS5 will arrive and then you'll get an upgrade of that one too.

 

[Griffith500]

Aah the game industry nowadays.

- Release new console that's barely up to date tech wise to keep costs low and profits high.
- Realize console can't keep up anymore after 3 years
- Release new console disguised as an update to not piss off gamers
- Rinse and repeat.

They could as well have called it PS5 right? Or doesn't the upgrade to the processing power and the GPU warrant saying that? My bet is that if they can pull this off, 3 years after "Neo" PS5 will arrive and then you'll get an upgrade of that one too.

I think the difference is the desire not to split the userbase; although "Neo" clearly will do that in some ways, they apparently want to minimise that.

 

[mister dog]

I think the difference is the desire not to split the userbase; although "Neo" clearly will do that in some ways, they apparently want to minimise that.

You think that after the initial stage they would start releasing "Neo" only games?

 

[Griffith500]

You think that after the initial stage they would start releasing "Neo" only games?

They could reevaluate it at any stage, I suppose, and there is in theory nothing stopping someone making a Neo only piece of software, unofficially...

 

[mister dog]

They could reevaluate it at any stage, I suppose, and there is in theory nothing stopping someone making a Neo only piece of software, unofficially...

Developers will welcome the thought i suppose.

 

[TayeezSA]

I'm kinda doubting E3 will show any new GTS related content. I mean the London & Nurburgring events were all PD had up their sleeve no?

Then again, there is the element of surprise.