Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[jm79]

Ok, you said it was "crap gameplay". I agree that we don't want game makers copying each other and just making clones but on the other hand that doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking to others for inspiration and ideas. It doesn't mean you copy those ideas verbose, it means you use them to form your own idea. I mean Forza is a perfect idea of that, they undoubtedly started with GT as their base idea but then over time they turned it into their own creation, with their own ideas. One of those ideas spawned an entire spin-off franchise.

Like I said, anyone can come up with their own unique, off the wall ideas and visions. It's for naught if those ideas fall flat in doing what they set out to. The moon rover is gameplay in a video game, it's failed if it's "crap" no matter how unique it may be.

Yeah, sorry man, I disagree on the moon thing. Admitting is wasn't amazing fun to play doesn't invalidate the point I was trying to make. But it's cool, I know I'm in a minority of one there

Forza is a weird one, in respect to this topic, because it was literally created to be GT for Xbox. Which as a concept, is so derivative it's appalling, but in terms of giving Xbox owners something similar to play they couldn't normally, and as a way of ticking a box for Microsoft, making the whole console more appealing, it makes total sense. Nowadays, in terms of that task, as many have pointed out, it does that better than GT.

So avoiding having to constantly willy-wave features with those guys, they've gone off and done something different. All power to them. My only gripe is their truly shocking communication, and general speed of development.

 

[ImaRobot]

So avoiding having to constantly willy-wave features with those guys, they've gone off and done something different. All power to them. My only gripe is their truly shocking communication, and general speed of development.

What are they doing that is different, now?

Being different is fine, but being different with relatively little fun as the out come doesn't seem like a good trade-off. I'd prefer fun in general, so if that means doing something similar, then I'm all for it. The idea has to be fun, as well as different for it to be meaningful in my opinion. While I never got around to trying the Moon Rover, it's not exactly something that's pulling me in with any excitement over another game.

 

[SlimCharles]

GT problem isnt about the lack of ideas. GT problem is about far more basic and far more important things, like mediocre sounds, lifeless AI, standars, unrealistic colision physics, list of cars full of different versions of a same vehicle...

 

[Samus]

Yeah, sorry man, I disagree on the moon thing. Admitting is wasn't amazing fun to play doesn't invalidate the point I was trying to make. But it's cool, I know I'm in a minority of one there

Well I would like to try and understand why you think it was good bearing in mind you called it "crap gameplay". You seem to be saying it was a good addition to the game merely because it was different to other games, which seems strange to me. So, perhaps you could clarify.

So avoiding having to constantly willy-wave features with those guys, they've gone off and done something different. All power to them. My only gripe is their truly shocking communication, and general speed of development.

They are the competition though. Not direct owing to the console difference, but they're the obvious competition. Doing something completely different just to avoid a comparison to your competition in case they're better seems like a chicken way to make a game. Good ideas are good ideas, irrespective of their origin. There is no shame in looking to your competition for ideas. It's up to you to then do them even better, or in a new way.

GT problem isnt about the lack of ideas. GT problem is about far more basic and far more important things, like mediocre sounds, lifeless AI, standars, unrealistic colision physics, list of cars full of different versions of a same vehicle...

It is definitely one of the problems. The GT mode in GT6 was essentially identical to the one in GT1 at it's core.

 

[TS050]

GT problem isnt about the lack of ideas. GT problem is about far more basic and far more important things, like mediocre sounds, lifeless AI, standars, unrealistic colision physics, list of cars full of different versions of a same vehicle...

In their defence, the sound and AI have seen a pretty significant improvement since GT6, and standards don't even exist anymore.

 

[SlimCharles]

In their defence, the sound and AI have seen a pretty significant improvement since GT6, and standards don't even exist anymore.

Absolutely. They improved some things... but not enough. For example, Sport is going to have one of the worst sounds in PS4. Still no collision physics.

 

[05XR8]

Okay, coming up with different ideas. It's like real life racing. People raced from point to point to push their cars to the limit. Some raced in a circuit of some sort, for miles on end. This is back in the early days of the automobile.

People have taken ideas from certain race disceplines and created something new or varied.

Touring cars:
Small sedans and hatches WTCC/BTCC
Large and mid-size sedans V8 Supercars

Formula cars:
F1
Formula 4
Formula Ford

Sports cars:
LMP1
Radical

GT:
GT3
GT4

RallyCross
WRC
Dakar
Baja

It's about being inspired about something and not just copying, but putting a spin on it creatively.

Seriously, in GT6, how hard could it be to choose an avatar from the crowd at Goodwood, control them to walk into dealerships down a strip, test drive the cars on the street, drive to a local track, drive it back to the dealership, purchase it, tick optional suspension, wheels, tinted glass, confirm purchase, drive to a location, snap a photo, share it and drive it home to your garage?

 

[Godarm]

and standards don't even exist anymore.

and we got a new term to describe the cars...

don't get me wrong, as a casual gamer, I am satisfied with the modeling standards but they could have just say "we have significantly improved on the modeling of the cars compared to GT6 AND in each GT title thereafter GT6, every/all cars will have the same improved modeling for that respective title"

This new term sounds to me that the assurance is not there and it can be use in a familiar situation/excuse again where PD can separate the wheat from the chaff when they introduce cars to the game

They can actually take the opportunity of the first GT game in a new platform (PS4) to ditch the terms used to describe cars....

quoting @mister dog

I wonder what the cars will be called for GT8; "Super duper premiums?".
If you don't need to distinguish anymore because you mix current and last gen models, then you could just as well call them 'cars' no?

 

[jm79]

It's about being inspired about something and not just copying, but putting a spin on it creatively.

Seriously, in GT6, how hard could it be to choose an avatar from the crowd at Goodwood, control them to walk into dealerships down a strip, test drive the cars on the street, drive to a local track, drive it back to the dealership, purchase it, tick optional suspension, wheels, tinted glass, confirm purchase, drive to a location, snap a photo, share it and drive it home to your garage?

I like your ideas man.

A couple more:

I've always thought (and I mentioned it on here at some point) that it would be good to start a race not by being dumped on the start grid, but to walk through the garage, get in the car, start it up, drive out, warm up lap or whatever, get in position, then start (optional obviously, would be a bit laborious every time).

Or actually buying a house, sticking all your cars in the garage, be able to buy random stuff or props for the house, a la PS Home (remember that? lol), change the weather, time of day, environment/country/city, take a snap.

etc etc...

 

[sircarltonlotus]

All I'm seeing is opinions about what constitutes fun. GTSport, or the concept, looks like huge fun to me. Be careful, don't get baited into getting yourselves banned trying to defend GT. Regardless of who is saying GTSport is comparable with FH3.

 

[ImaRobot]

All I'm seeing is opinions about what constitutes fun.

Yes, that's how discussions work.

GTSport, or the concept, looks like huge fun to me. Be careful, don't get baited into getting yourselves banned trying to defend GT. Regardless of who is saying GTSport is comparable with FH3.

This has all been a pretty friendly discussion to be honest, no one is baiting anyone.

 

[05XR8]

PCars has the option of 2 practices, qualifying and warm up before a race. I can actually choose not to participate and just watch the qualifying times of the AI. Literally, I sit in my car, in the garage and watch AI cars exit and enter pitlane. I can also option those parts out of my experience and just start the race. It's a good game.

We'll just wait and see what's to be of GTS next year.

 

[Johnnypenso]

All I'm seeing is opinions about what constitutes fun. GTSport, or the concept, looks like huge fun to me. Be careful, don't get baited into getting yourselves banned trying to defend GT. Regardless of who is saying GTSport is comparable with FH3.

Why does someone have to "defend" GT? Did it get its feelings hurt?

 

[Samus]

It's amazing how many times people are just having a discussion on these boards and someone else steams in because they perceive GT is being "attacked" and they don't like it. No, it's called having an adult discussion, we were all doing just fine with no name calling, no childish remarks and no personal attacks.

 

[apexpredator100]

Well, Kaz does take inspiration. From Bad Piggies and other mobile games.

Do you guys ever look for inspiration outside of the racing genre, or draw inspiration from places aside from other racing games?

KY: “I think so, because I love my iPad and my iPad games – I play a lot of those! I think Bad Piggies is a really cool game!"

Hence the 3 star system in GT6.

And it also seems like they've taken inspiration from iRacing, with the GT Sport multiplayer system.

 

[Godarm]

This has all been a pretty friendly discussion to be honest, no one is baiting anyone

Agreed, nice ideas and suggestions but still this thread is "serious" business and have "taken quite a number of lives"

Why does someone have to "defend" GT? Did it get its feelings hurt?

"apparently yes", thats why it is throwing tantrums by not giving an official release date

 

[McLaren]

In my opinion, FH3 and GT are nothing alike at all.

And screw trying to ape everything else all the time, it's why videogames can be so predictable and generic.
I like idiosyncrasies and eccentricity, and some guy making games occasionally thinking who cares, and doing his own thing.

The approach is just as valid. You're never going to please everyone all the time.

To mildly paraphrase @Brend, variety.

The problem though, is that the entire goal of a video game IS to please everyone. That's how you sell copies, by broadening out and attracting as many folks as possible in your genre. Some guy that doesn't care what the market wants and "does his own thing" won't be making video games very long.

Polyphony have the advantage of releasing the franchise way back in a simpler time and have taken the franchise to its peak. But, as time as gone on, they're refusing to make major changes or take inspiration. You have to evolve your brand over time with the genre you're in and seeing what your competition is doing. GT doesn't have to go the route of FH3, everyone here will probably agree. But, there's more than a handful of things such as the AI, sound, gameplay, credit system, etc. Polyphony can at least look at it and see what they can do to add life. Maybe take a look at how the Forza series works to maintain a steady FPS before deciding how much they can push the graphics, since there is a lot of debate here about GT drops in FPS and has screen tearing? Maybe take a look at Forza Rewards and adopt an idea that helps cut down on the grinding GT has been critiqued for? Community feedback would easily improve. It'd be a small start.

 

[Mr P510]

Another good start would be for Kaz to go.
IMO until that happens the Granturismo series will be stuck in the past,being sterile and boring.

 

[Lillex]

This email came to you?

yes

 

[Racer_BMW]

View attachment 588033

Is this a release date for the PS Store pre-order thing? Kinda looks like it.

 

[ImaRobot]

Is this a release date for the PS Store pre-order thing?

That is not a release date, it's a placeholder.

 

[Racer_BMW]

That is not a release date, it's a placeholder.

What does that mean?

 

[Johnnypenso]

What does that mean?

It means that they don't know the actual release date so they just put in the generic, last day of the year date

 

[Racer_BMW]

It means that they don't know the actual release date so they just put in the generic, last day of the year date

I see, thanks

 

[synon]

The problem though, is that the entire goal of a video game IS to please everyone. That's how you sell copies, by broadening out and attracting as many folks as possible in your genre. Some guy that doesn't care what the market wants and "does his own thing" won't be making video games very long.

Polyphony have the advantage of releasing the franchise way back in a simpler time and have taken the franchise to its peak. But, as time as gone on, they're refusing to make major changes or take inspiration. You have to evolve your brand over time with the genre you're in and seeing what your competition is doing. GT doesn't have to go the route of FH3, everyone here will probably agree. But, there's more than a handful of things such as the AI, sound, gameplay, credit system, etc. Polyphony can at least look at it and see what they can do to add life. Maybe take a look at how the Forza series works to maintain a steady FPS before deciding how much they can push the graphics, since there is a lot of debate here about GT drops in FPS and has screen tearing? Maybe take a look at Forza Rewards and adopt an idea that helps cut down on the grinding GT has been critiqued for? Community feedback would easily improve. It'd be a small start.

Not really, the entire goal of a video game isn't to please everyone, as jm79 says that is never possible. eg your example of maintaining a steady FPS, some people may prefer more cars on track or dynamic weather/time features that having an unlocked frame rate would allow.

But, as time as gone on, they're refusing to make major changes or take inspiration.

But aren't some of the complaints about GTS due to the fact that some people think it is too much of a major change from previous GTs?

Another good start would be for Kaz to go.
IMO until that happens the Granturismo series will be stuck in the past,being sterile and boring.

lol no

 

[Aphelion]

Not really, the entire goal of a video game isn't to please everyone, as jm79 says that is never possible. eg your example of maintaining a steady FPS, some people may prefer more cars on track or dynamic weather/time features that having an unlocked frame rate would allow.

In fact, in most cases, the pursuit of global happiness ends up making no-one happy. Look at destiny, when that game launched it tried to please just about every single group of people possible, and it was one of the most mediocre games in existence for a while.

 

[RACECAR]

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if PD is afraid of change, afraid of stepping out of their comfort zone (Which is focusing on hardcore driving and the appreciation of the automobile).. When you look at how Forza created this second franchise which is more open world, they've expanded and branched out to new fans and ended up creating this environment of having cool things to do and you see some of it trickling into their main series (Top Gear bowling, quirky fictional cars like the Rocket from Fallout). I'm gonna sound crazy for saying this but I think this should be something asked to Kaz as an answer would make things more clear.

People's tastes have changed and people's idea of "Fun" have changed. This whole approach on getting young people interested into cars and racing I understand, but Kaz is missing something that kids often gravitate towards: Fun. Without even trying, I'd be willing to bet FH3 is doing a far better job at getting kids into cars and having fun with cars then GT Sport will in its current shape.


So as someone who's only been into the serious on-track stuff and not partaking in the tom foolery, I think what GT needs to do IS step out and "Loosen up". They don't need to get rid of the serious driving they've done, just add options that'll officially allow people to have fun their own way instead of making people think up ways to have fun.

 

[Ameer67]

I agree with you @RACECAR. I think GT takes itself too seriously sometimes and is lacking some of the fun that was seen in previous entries. Ever since around GT4 I'd say, PD went the hardcore route. That's fine and all, but like you said, there needs to be something for those who aren't always into doing officiated races and such.

 

[McLaren]

Not really, the entire goal of a video game isn't to please everyone, as jm79 says that is never possible.

"That's how you sell copies, by broadening out and attracting as many folks as possible in your genre."

If a developer focuses only on what he wants, & not what the community continues to ask for, the game will suffer. That is the point.

eg your example of maintaining a steady FPS, some people may prefer more cars on track or dynamic weather/time features that having an unlocked frame rate would allow.

Which does the graphics what good when there become noticeable issues? T10 has not mastered dynamic weather/time in the Motorsport series, but it has done everything else whilst maintaining a steady 1080p 60FPS. It was a big priority for them during development.

So yeah, I think it surprised a lot of people that Forza Motorsport 6 was able to come out with 1080p, 60 frames per second, 24 cars on track, with night, with wet, but it drives great.

Look at Digital Foundry's test of GT6 in comparison.

Tearing remains an issue with GT6 but manifests itself somewhat differently than in GT5, necessitating a rewrite of the tear detection algorithms in our performance tools. The overall effect is less distracting than in GT5 but still far from optimal - the visual impact of the tearing is not as noticeable to the human eye, but there's a definite "wobble" in the presentation when frame-rate dips below 60fps.

As it stands, performance seems to hinge on the use of four elements: dynamic lighting, the amount of cars on-screen, utilisation of the cockpit view, and weather effects. GT6 includes an updated real-time lighting solution designed to allow for realistic time of day changes. While this feature was already present in Gran Turismo 5 to a limited degree, GT6 sees this extended across a wider variety of circuits.

This is clearly a very demanding feature, however, resulting in performance issues with any track utilising the updated lighting model. Despite this, the end results can be quite stunning, and definitely contribute an improved sense of realism and beauty. While GT6 continues to support up to 16 vehicles in a race, the game reserves higher vehicle counts for the latter stages of the career mode. In stark contrast to GT5's arcade mode, the amount of cars in any given race is noticeably pared back in the sequel - a decision that appears to have been made for performance reasons. Only further into the career mode does the full roster of 16 vehicles appear.

The cockpit and dynamic weather, also present in GT5, continue to negatively impact the engine's ability to reach its 60fps objective. When all of these elements are combined we encountered frame-rates that can reach the low 40s in 1080p mode. Interestingly, despite these performance issues, Polyphony Digital insists on updating all reflections and mirrors at the same rate as the game itself. Games such as Forza 5 actually decouple these elements and display them at a variable frame-rate - no doubt in order to help maintain a solid frame-rate elsewhere. It seems to us that perhaps the no-compromise attitude in regards to certain features could actually be doing more harm than good in certain cases.

I believe either DF or another source said the game maintains its FPS much better when in 720p.

 

[ron86]

Another good start would be for Kaz to go.
IMO until that happens the Granturismo series will be stuck in the past,being sterile and boring.

Kaz IS gran turismo - if you want another boss, buy an other game!

Gran Turismo just exists because of of kaz and without him GTPlanet wouldnt even exist.

Btw i go to Gamecity today in vienna and will be able to play GTSport - i will try do do some donuts and burnouts to see if there are changes in the physics in that regard. I dont think there will be anything new but i will drive more unpopular cars, i think i saw a hellcat available in some gameplay footage? Will definitly try that heavy monster if possible.