Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[ImaRobot]

I think you can get cosistency with online races too.

You very much can, if you join league races. But joining random players online has never been "consistent". I'm wondering how well this rating system is going to work, because it just being there doesn't mean you wont ever run into the occasional griefer. A system can be exploited, so it would be good to see this in action.

Yes, like i said already, games need moderation for their online modes. But that moderation is much much more complicated in a racing game than in a fighting game.

I repeat, im not stating nothing at all. Keep saying that if you want, but is not the case. And if i said "if you like racing, racing online is the thing you most desire" i meant to say that the best races you cant get is vs real people.

It's just the way you said it came across as if other games don't need that system. No one is saying the moderation is going to be the same, each game is going to need it's own rules.

You actually did make it as a statement, but you have since clarified. Sure there are instances where you can get some amazing races that you wont be able to get with Ai, and that is usually when you find like minded people to race with. There are a lot of people that don't go that far though, or don't know many people with the game, or just don't interact with people online, so they will get the short end of the stick. That person usually gets jumbled with a bunch of jerks on online play, as they'd have to go through random lobbies. People in that situation will likely get more out of the Ai, consistently, rather than playing online.

Having a rating system in place does not eliminate unsavory instances. It just shuffles them, and makes them someone else's problem.

 

[05XR8]

Great in theory, bad in execution. What happens in online racing?

Sure, hypothetically, it could be an option. But it's always seemed like a gimmick to me: players can just set the weather to whatever matches the situation outside the window.

For sure. It's the feature I love in PCars(only wish there was a wet track without the rain option and a 50 minute time interval. Sucks trying to replicate a GT4 race when I can't get that extra 5 minutes).

I'm thinking more about offline. Online, the weather conditions could be what's happening at the specific track. Adjust the time to suit, but weather would be as is.

 

[SlimCharles]

You very much can, if you join league races. But joining random players online has never been "consistent". I'm wondering how well this rating system is going to work, because it just being there doesn't mean you wont ever run into the occasional griefer. A system can be exploited, so it would be good to see this in action.

Im always talking about online modes with rating system. It is obvious that without it, the public online becomes the same 🤬 from every game.

I dont know how GT rating it is gonna work. But there is already rating systems in other games already. IRacing, minorating... And the first one specially works very well.

It's just the way you said it came across as if other games don't need that system. No one is saying the moderation is going to be the same, each game is going to need it's own rules.

You actually did make it as a statement, but you have since clarified. Sure there are instances where you can get some amazing races that you wont be able to get with Ai, and that is usually when you find like minded people to race with. There are a lot of people that don't go that far though, or don't know many people with the game, or just don't interact with people online, so they will get the short end of the stick. That person usually gets jumbled with a bunch of jerks on online play, as they'd have to go through random lobbies. People in that situation will likely get more out of the Ai, consistently, rather than playing online.

Having a rating system in place does not eliminate unsavory instances. It just shuffles them, and makes them someone else's problem.

Yes but can we agree racing games need from a very complicated moderation? More than other games?

And with rating system, you get almost the same consistence that you get with the AI. Just watch Iracing.

Other thing is that GT reaches that level. Im not saying it will happen.

 

[TayeezSA]

Speaking of AI, my opinions of course, from playing other games,

I've actually had a few decent runs with Project CARS AI from what I remember playing. I haven't touched it lately though.

Assetto Corsa can be quite punishing, even after the update. My biggest issue with it is the balance, medium still doesn't feel like medium should, even easy. The balance os like it's you against 12 T-1000s when you only have Lemon Pledge and a lighter.

Driveclub, since I've hammered that game extensively, actually had decent AI, it leaned more to the easy side but there were quite a few races where cars would just randomly creep up and overtake me. Not even that but in a few races I'd actually struggle to get into pole position where any little mistake left me so open for Overtaking.

One memorable race from DC that I enjoyed in particular was an Arcade Legend Difficulty race on a Chile sprint track with 7 cars, daytime, myself in a LaFerrari and Cowboy Bebop OST banging in the background. Now THAT was a race.... Tension, slick moves and trying to be as clean as possible. I just managed first place, only just.

Now if GTS AI could be something like that then I'd be quite happy.

 

[ImaRobot]

Im always talking about online modes with rating system. It is obvious that without it, the public online becomes the same 🤬 from every game.

I dont know how GT rating it is gonna work. But there is already rating systems in other games already. IRacing, minorating... And the first one specially works very well.



Yes but can we agree racing games need from a very complicated moderation? More than other games?

And with rating system, you get almost the same consistence that you get with the AI. Just watch Iracing.

Other thing is that GT reaches that level. Im not saying it will happen.

iRacing is in a different situation though, the fact that you have to pay for a constant membership is already going to be a deterrent itself to those types of negative players. No ones going to want to pay a membership constantly just to ruin it like that, and its not that cheap either. Where as GT usually covers a wider range of players not to fussed about ruining their online credibility since its a one time payment.

 

[SlimCharles]

iRacing is in a different situation though, the fact that you have to pay for a constant membership is already going to be a deterrent itself to those types of negative players. No ones going to want to pay a membership constantly just to ruin it like that, and its not that cheap either. Where as GT usually covers a wider range of players not to fussed about ruining their online credibility since its a one time payment.

True, but I hope that they can reach something near. If not, the game will be almost useless (no offline and no online).

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Kaz is in la la land if he is seriously expecting beginners and casual fans to be interested in learning racing etiquette and behaviour. It's certainly admirable, but I just don't see how it's going to happen. Not in big numbers, anyway.

As for the main section of the game he says this:



Then starts talking about regional finals and winners being on the same level as real world racers. How is that not finding the fastest drivers? Where is the incentive for people that know they're not going to be at that ceremony?



Again, that is great for the best of the best, what about the millions who will not be progressing to the finals? Are they expected to just be happy taking part at the start, as with GT Academy?



He keeps saying he wants to cater to everyone without really saying how he's going to do that because on one hand he's talking about accessibility then he's talking about hardcore, exclusionary aspects.



Then you have statements like this which seem to basically exclude that large chunk of people in the middle, those who are experienced with racing games but also aren't the top racers who are going to be going to the end of the championships. So what do they get out of this game? He doesn't really say, he just seems to want to teach people to drive and then expect they want to jump into competitive, hardcore races.

Isn't that something GT tries to do since the first one anyway and seems most popular sim racing game by far still? He is a leader after all, who knows there might be a massive rise in real racing licenses thanks to GT. There's some incentive there. I think it will be a better offline game than GT5 or GT6 too, hard to get worse IMO and they sold loads of copies and so did likes of GT PSP and GT5P which were more bare-bones. From what I've seen of it so far, it looks the best a GT game has looked, drives the best, sounds the best and has most intelligent AI in a GT game so all good reasons to get the game I think. Has also livery editor and photomode which might be interesting to some.

I'm not a fan of racing or playing against AI though, more fun against others whether it be likes of football, fighting or racing games. Think the AI looks faster at driving than vast majority of players that play GT games, good to have options but maybe the masses like the idea they can compete against Pro level AI.

I was thinking though earlier about a online racing event I would be seriously interested in and casuals might also be - Moon racing. The Moon events I had the most fun in GT6 but was disappointed you couldn't race on it. I think it would be great fun and a laugh if they did allow it. If Kaz puts on a party again in UK, hopefully I can attend and will ask him about possibility.

 

[05XR8]

Seriously, why isn't this GTS?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Speaking of AI, my opinions of course, from playing other games,

I've actually had a few decent runs with Project CARS AI from what I remember playing. I haven't touched it lately though.

Assetto Corsa can be quite punishing, even after the update. My biggest issue with it is the balance, medium still doesn't feel like medium should, even easy. The balance os like it's you against 12 T-1000s when you only have Lemon Pledge and a lighter.

Driveclub, since I've hammered that game extensively, actually had decent AI, it leaned more to the easy side but there were quite a few races where cars would just randomly creep up and overtake me. Not even that but in a few races I'd actually struggle to get into pole position where any little mistake left me so open for Overtaking.

One memorable race from DC that I enjoyed in particular was an Arcade Legend Difficulty race on a Chile sprint track with 7 cars, daytime, myself in a LaFerrari and Cowboy Bebop OST banging in the background. Now THAT was a race.... Tension, slick moves and trying to be as clean as possible. I just managed first place, only just.

Now if GTS AI could be something like that then I'd be quite happy.

I reckon the guys from PD could learn a trick or two from DriveClub in regards to AI. They're fair, but aren't afraid to fight with you. I've had some great races in DriveClub where the AI was stalking me pretty much the whole race, always within striking distance. Fantastic.

 

[azeeza]

I reckon the guys from PD could learn a trick or two from DriveClub in regards to AI. They're fair, but aren't afraid to fight with you. I've had some great races in DriveClub where the AI was stalking me pretty much the whole race, always within striking distance. Fantastic.

Ai on drive club is really bad

 

[RACECAR]

Sounds for the Subaru still needs work

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm confident that's the Mustang.

 

[Samus]

I think it will be a better offline game than GT5 or GT6 too

With no offline game to really speak of I don't see how.

Think the AI looks faster at driving than vast majority of players that play GT games

..and how have you come to that conclusion, exactly?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

With no offline game to really speak of I don't see how.

Reading the website, it says the following "The Campaign Mode of Gran Turismo Sport is a large scale offline content that provides a hands-on experience to allow even beginners to learn driving skills from scratch."

With better AI and driving physics, I think it will offer more to offline players than before. I find offline events in GT5 and GT6 boring compared to GT4. Only really the special events were interesting. With the delay, they may expand on it. Who knows, they might even call it GT7. Don't think it takes long to create offline events. Wonder if seasonals will also make a return which had challenging expert events.

..and how have you come to that conclusion, exactly?

Well looking at recent video with AI driver with a Hellcat pushing the driver all the way to the end and also carrying a lot of speed into some corners, a low 8 minute time with such a car seems quite quick. Don't think many players could do that kind of time and most would use a pad which I find harder to go as quick (I'll probably struggle to beat the AI). I don't think most people know how to go around such a track, even simple tracks I find when I see gaming events people struggle to stay on the track. Markers may help but I think most people will struggle to beat the AI. Even seeing on the launch event, a driver in top 0.001% going all the way to the end to overtake the final AI car so I think is going to make it a challenging race for most. On short races, it's going to feel like a decent battle IMO.

 

[chzsln485]

Reading the website, it says the following "The Campaign Mode of Gran Turismo Sport is a large scale offline content that provides a hands-on experience to allow even beginners to learn driving skills from scratch."

With better AI and driving physics, I think it will offer more to offline players than before. I find offline events in GT5 and GT6 boring compared to GT4. Only really the special events were interesting. With the delay, they may expand on it. Who knows, they might even call it GT7. Don't think it takes long to create offline events. Wonder if seasonals will also make a return which had challenging expert events.

Except we know now that GT Sport's offline mode is essentially just a training mode. I refer you to the below image:

Let's break it down:

Beginner's School is the shortest section, and the image looks to me like your basic tests of accelerating, braking, cornering... you know the stuff.

Circuit Experience implies you have to tackle real world race circuits. I imagine you'll get sections or specific corners to tackle, like GT5's AMG Driving Academy.

Racing Etiquette seems to be exactly what it says it is - training to overtake cleanly, for instance.

Mission Challenge is a bit less obvious, and it's also by far the biggest section, with 62 events. This might offer some proper, structured offline racing (i.e. not Arcade Mode's Single Races), but if that was the case, why not call them "Races"? We can't really know unless this is actually expanded on by Kaz prior to release.

I think, at this stage, unless this is proven to be wrong, its best to think of this as something like Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, or Street Fighter V... all the real game is in the online gameplay, and the offline stuff is fairly barebones and really just designed to offer some basic beginner's training for the online, however its dressed up. I don't think anyone would realistically buy any of those games to only play against AI. That just isn't what they're about, and it isn't where you'll get the most fun out of them. It's great if you're into that sort of thing, and enjoy competitive online gaming and e-sports, but I can see why people hoping for a racing RPG, car collecting type of game might be disappointed.

Personally, I'm quite looking forward to GT trying something a bit different. it might be a roaring success, it might be received with a wholehearted "meh", or it might just flop altogether, but who knows? If this is the start of GT as a service, that gets continually updated over its life (as hinted at by the whole "it'll eventually have 500 cars" thing), then that's a good thing too. In the same way Street Fighter doesn't need "Super" and "Ultra" re-releases all the time, and that something like Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike: Global Offensive is a completely different game to when they launched, it shows you can launch a game and build on it over time without needing to re-release boxed sequels, and therefore incurring all the attendant costs of marketing a new game, producing and distributing physical copies, and so on... the way games are played and supported by their creators are changing, and GT is too. I'm excited and intrigued to see how it develops.

 

[Samus]

Reading the website, it says the following "The Campaign Mode of Gran Turismo Sport is a large scale offline content that provides a hands-on experience to allow even beginners to learn driving skills from scratch."

With better AI and driving physics, I think it will offer more to offline players than before. I find offline events in GT5 and GT6 boring compared to GT4. Only really the special events were interesting. With the delay, they may expand on it. Who knows, they might even call it GT7. Don't think it takes long to create offline events. Wonder if seasonals will also make a return which had challenging expert events.

As @chzsln485 says, we know what the Campaign Mode is (or at least what it was pre-delay) and it's nothing more than training events. There is no large scale offline career or other content despite what the marketing blurb would try to suggest.

Well looking at recent video with AI driver with a Hellcat pushing the driver all the way to the end and also carrying a lot of speed into some corners, a low 8 minute time with such a car seems quite quick. Don't think many players could do that kind of time and most would use a pad which I find harder to go as quick (I'll probably struggle to beat the AI).

Except that is the result of the same rubberbanding effect found in GT6. If the player had been slower the AI wouldn't have still done the same lap time and it wouldn't do it if it were ahead. Many including myself believe the AI is even cheating when it's doing that, not sticking to the game physics or getting a boost of some sort.

You can test it yourself in GT6, the difference in lap times whether you sit behind the AI for the whole lap or get in front and go hell for leather can be over 90 seconds on the ring. Well, it increases the faster you are because no matter how fast or slow you are chances are the AI will sit on your tail all the way around and finish just behind you.

 

[dacc10]

If this is the start of GT as a service, that gets continually updated over its life (as hinted at by the whole "it'll eventually have 500 cars" thing), then that's a good thing too. In the same way Street Fighter doesn't need "Super" and "Ultra" re-releases all the time, and that something like Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike: Global Offensive is a completely different game to when they launched, it shows you can launch a game and build on it over time without needing to re-release boxed sequels, and therefore incurring all the attendant costs of marketing a new game, producing and distributing physical copies, and so on...

This could be very interesting, if done right. I don't think there will be room for a second GT in this generation, since it's already 3 years hold. Instead, the right choice might be improve the game as the time passes. Not just fixing bugs and those little things we are used to. More content, updating the campaign mode with more races, challenges, etc. New game modes, like a drag strip, an improved tuning system and more customization. More paid content, like cars and tracks. Make the game bigger as it gets older, to keep the fans happy and anticipating the next game.
But, it has to be done right and with consistency.

 

[chzsln485]

This could be very interesting, if done right. I don't think there will be room for a second GT in this generation, since it's already 3 years hold. Instead, the right choice might be improve the game as the time passes. Not just fixing bugs and those little things we are used to. More content, updating the campaign mode with more races, challenges, etc. New game modes, like a drag strip, an improved tuning system and more customization. More paid content, like cars and tracks. Make the game bigger as it gets older, to keep the fans happy and anticipating the next game.
But, it has to be done right and with consistency.

It could be a very effective method considering Polyphony's ways of doing things. Think about how each GT game is sort of "paired" with another - GT1 and 2 on PS1, GT3 and 4 on PS2, and GT5 and 6 on PS3. The second game of each pair builds on the foundation of the first, sticking to a "two full titles per generation" system. As you rightly point out, it doesn't really need to any more. With the storage of consoles ever expanding compared to previous generations (remember the smallest capacity PS4 is 500GB, the smallest PS3 was the 12GB Super Slim), it's much easier to store updates, patches, and DLC. You bought and installed Team Fortress 2 in 2007, and it'll be the same core install that sits on your PC's HDD... but there's massive amounts of extra maps, items, weapons, sounds, significant gameplay and balancing tweaks... it's a different game. If Valve have kept the same game feeling current and fresh for nine years, I can't see why Polyphony can't try and aim for something similar.

 

[dacc10]

It could be a very effective method considering Polyphony's ways of doing things. Think about how each GT game is sort of "paired" with another - GT1 and 2 on PS1, GT3 and 4 on PS2, and GT5 and 6 on PS3. The second game of each pair builds on the foundation of the first, sticking to a "two full titles per generation" system. As you rightly point out, it doesn't really need to any more. With the storage of consoles ever expanding compared to previous generations (remember the smallest capacity PS4 is 500GB, the smallest PS3 was the 12GB Super Slim), it's much easier to store updates, patches, and DLC. You bought and installed Team Fortress 2 in 2007, and it'll be the same core install that sits on your PC's HDD... but there's massive amounts of extra maps, items, weapons, sounds, significant gameplay and balancing tweaks... it's a different game. If Valve have kept the same game feeling current and fresh for nine years, I can't see why Polyphony can't try and aim for something similar.

Unfortunately, they came a bit late to this generation, and this being a "new formula" for GT, is less likely that we get a "normal" GT on the PS4. So, as a solution, they could use GT Sport as a base. An eventual spec 2 GT Sport could very well be close to what GT was before, with a great variety of content.
But for now, that's just wishful thinking. Now, they need to deliver a good game. Only then the player base might be big enough to make it worth that sort of further expansion.

 

[dimassa19]

Unfortunately, they came a bit late to this generation, and this being a "new formula" for GT, is less likely that we get a "normal" GT on the PS4. So, as a solution, they could use GT Sport as a base. An eventual spec 2 GT Sport could very well be close to what GT was before, with a great variety of content.
But for now, that's just wishful thinking. Now, they need to deliver a good game. Only then the player base might be big enough to make it worth that sort of further expansion.

The New Generation has not started yet...There is no game that you may call Next-Gen...(maybe Battlefield 1)

 

[Samus]

The New Generation has not start yet...There is no game that you may call Next-Gen...(maybe Battlefield 1)

Generation is merely a definition of timeframes, this generation started nearly three years ago and is likely to end in around three more, irrespective of the perceived jump between generations.

 

[dimassa19]

Generation is merely a definition of timeframes, this generation started nearly three years ago and is likely to end in around three more, irrespective of the perceived jump between generations.

Timeframes is not a mind-blowing feature...

 

[ImaRobot]

Timeframes is not a mind-blowing feature...

Features also don't make it a new generation.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Im always talking about online modes with rating system. It is obvious that without it, the public online becomes the same 🤬 from every game.

I dont know how GT rating it is gonna work. But there is already rating systems in other games already. IRacing, minorating... And the first one specially works very well.

Yes but can we agree racing games need from a very complicated moderation? More than other games?

And with rating system, you get almost the same consistence that you get with the AI. Just watch Iracing.

Other thing is that GT reaches that level. Im not saying it will happen.

The players that stick with iRacing are a small but dedicated group of players who have the most serious approach to sim racing and commit large amounts of money and time to their hobby. To get through to the players that stick to iRacing you need to go through all the casual players in the entry level stages of iRacing, and I'd guess they are more representative of casual sim racers as a whole and more likely to be similar to GT fans, on average. There's a reason why this stage of iRacing is commonly referred to as "surviving the rookies" or words to that effect. If you've raced in the rookie classes you know that the driver rating doesn't mean a lot to many of the drivers until they are past the rookie stages. How this will play out in GT is unknown but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the average GT player is much more casual than the average iRacer and to expect high quality racing on a consistent basis might be a bit of a stretch.

Im not telling no one what to do, and it annoys me that you assume that. I was saying that if you like racing, the best races are with real people. For many reasons (im talking of clean racing). I like offline modes too, but racing against the AI cant be compared with racing with other people, that is simply like racing with a much much more complicated and better AI.

Im not saying that if you like racing games you have to like only online racing. Im saying that the best races you can get is against other people (in a clean way obviously). I have played a lot of driving games before the online era too, and in some of them i enjoyed more than the rest of the driving game with online modes because the AI was superb (NFS 4). But like I said, a person is always (maybe in the future, but thats irrelevant right now) going to be a much better AI than a computer.

There are many reasons why players might prefer racing offline. Less stress, much more customizable, can crash and bash at will, can quit without penalty any time, much faster to get started racing, more predictable competition etc. I liken casual GT players to me playing one of the NHL games. I went online several times, some games were good, many sucked, matchmaking was inconsistent, connection issues here and there, lots of time sitting and waiting etc. I ended up doing a full regular season against the AI right up to the Stanley Cup and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also played an entire season the following year with a buddy of mine with both of us on the same team and enjoyed that as well.

 

[SlimCharles]

The players that stick with iRacing are a small but dedicated group of players who have the most serious approach to sim racing and commit large amounts of money and time to their hobby. To get through to the players that stick to iRacing you need to go through all the casual players in the entry level stages of iRacing, and I'd guess they are more representative of casual sim racers as a whole and more likely to be similar to GT fans, on average. There's a reason why this stage of iRacing is commonly referred to as "surviving the rookies" or words to that effect. If you've raced in the rookie classes you know that the driver rating doesn't mean a lot to many of the drivers until they are past the rookie stages. How this will play out in GT is unknown but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the average GT player is much more casual than the average iRacer and to expect high quality racing on a consistent basis might be a bit of a stretch.

That what the rating is for. It will allow you to race with opponents with the same interests. You want to race with clean people? Work it (in Iracing like you said you have to pass that rookie zone) and you will be able to do it. No matter how big or committed to clean racing is the community of the game. There will be different communities inside the game. In theory, at least.

Of course, no one knows how GT online will work. But, if what they are saying is true, we´ll be able to play clean races in public online. And that objetive worth the effort. And in my own and personal opinion, worth loosing the GT we have had from the first one (or at least loosing it for one sequel). And i have played all GT except 4 and 6.

There are many reasons why players might prefer racing offline. Less stress, much more customizable, can crash and bash at will, can quit without penalty any time, much faster to get started racing, more predictable competition etc. I liken casual GT players to me playing one of the NHL games. I went online several times, some games were good, many sucked, matchmaking was inconsistent, connection issues here and there, lots of time sitting and waiting etc. I ended up doing a full regular season against the AI right up to the Stanley Cup and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also played an entire season the following year with a buddy of mine with both of us on the same team and enjoyed that as well.

This is a misunderstanding i tried to explain to imarobot. I didnt say that if you like driving games you like the most clean online races. I intended to say that the best races you can get are clean races with real people or that if you like racing (not racing/driving games) online clean races is the thing you mostly seek.

Sure AI racing can be fun, and in some cases can be more than that (like i said, in NFS 4 from PSX, in which the AI is ashtonising; better than many current games). But, again, no AI can compare with the complicated behaviour of a real person.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is a misunderstanding i tried to explain to imarobot. I didnt say that if you like driving games you like the most clean online races. I intended to say that the best races you can get are clean races with real people or that if you like racing (not racing/driving games) online clean races is the thing you mostly seek.

Sure AI racing can be fun, and in some cases can be more than that (like i said, in NFS 4 from PSX, in which the AI is ashtonising; better than many current games). But, again, no AI can compare with the complicated behaviour of a real person.

The point you are missing is that not everyone, and I'd guess not even a majority of players, want the complicated behaviour of a real person. Complicated = unpredictable and for many players that's not fun, especially those with less skill I would presume. Online racing also offers no career to naturally progress through, no customization, lots of waiting aka less racing, unprectable grid sizes at the beginning and end of races, more stress etc. There are many reasons why someone would prefer, even exclusively, offline racing, and none of those reasons will change with the advent of a driver rating system.

 

[dacc10]

A great deal of the player base likely to buy this game, will much rather play in a more casual way, offline or online, instead of playing in a competitive, under pressure, environment. Drag, drift, cruise lobbies will probably be more common than clean, competitive racing lobbies. At the end of the day, that's what GT is for a lot of people, just "GT and chill".

GT Academy is a good example of how many people really care about the competitive aspect. Lots players (including myself), compete in GT Academy, either for the credits or the cars that come as prizes. Most just do it for the sake of trying and come home with the prize, since they know they won't be able to beat the top drivers.
Sport mode will be similar in a way. With or without big prizes, the casuals might give it a try, maybe race once per month, maybe earn some money or any prizes that might come with each race/championship. But after that, they will come back to the regular game, and that's why the offline campaign is important. They just want a chilled experience, where they can go in and out whenever they want and do whatever they want.

Sport mode should never be taken as a replacement for the campaign either by us, players, but by PD themselves too.

 

[hankolerd]

Did I miss this, or is this new? Thrustmast T300RS GT Edition -
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M1L2NRL/?tag=gtplanet-20

https://gameidealist.com/news/detai...ter-t300rs-gran-turismo-edition-racing-wheel/

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Because to offer an only online game in SFV you dont need the ratings, complicated rules and effort you need to create the same thing in racing games.

Not true in the least. Yes, you can offer an offline mode in a fighting game without absolutely any ratings, rules, or organization. Just as you could in a racing game.

You'll get similar results in both.

To work well in both games: in SFV i dont think you need almost nothing to create a good public online; in GT, you need ratings, what appears to be very difficult to implement (and in racing games is extremely rare, but extremely important in order to prevent the public online becoming a destruction derby).

You don't need ratings in either for them to function. You do need ratings and rules in both if you want balanced, organized online matches. Which is the goal of GT Sport, as well as numerous fighting games. I know when I played Marvel vs Capcom 3 years ago, there was a rating system involved. I didn't really pay any attention to it, because I have no interest in playing online.

Yes, every person has its tastes. But if you like racing, real people races is the thing that you most desire.

These two sentences are at odds with one another.

If you like to collet cars, pass a number of races with reasonable entertainment or maybe just enjoy driving but with no interest in racing I understand loosing the offline mode is a pitty. But for me, real races are the top level at which a racing game can reach.

The bolded part is important.

You're speaking about your own tastes. Nobody else.

This is a misunderstanding i tried to explain to imarobot. I didnt say that if you like driving games you like the most clean online races. I intended to say that the best races you can get are clean races with real people or that if you like racing (not racing/driving games) online clean races is the thing you mostly seek.

You're still making assumptions on everybody else's tastes based on your own.

Sure AI racing can be fun, and in some cases can be more than that (like i said, in NFS 4 from PSX, in which the AI is ashtonising; better than many current games). But, again, no AI can compare with the complicated behaviour of a real person.

AI doesn't randomly decide to drive backwards in a race because it feels it was unfairly hit the previous lap. AI doesn't let its friend play, who has never touched a driving game before. It doesn't disconnect when it's losing. It doesn't suffer connection lag issues.

There are plenty of reasons people don't want to play online all the time.

 

[Samus]

Timeframes is not a mind-blowing feature...

What? Generatuons have nothing to do with features or graphics quality. They could release the PS5 with worse hardware than PS4, it would still be the next generation of console. That's how it works and GT is going to arrive over three years into this generation.

 

[SlimCharles]

The point you are missing is that not everyone, and I'd guess not even a majority of players, want the complicated behaviour of a real person. Complicated = unpredictable and for many players that's not fun, especially those with less skill I would presume. Online racing also offers no career to naturally progress through, no customization, lots of waiting aka less racing, unprectable grid sizes at the beginning and end of races, more stress etc. There are many reasons why someone would prefer, even exclusively, offline racing, and none of those reasons will change with the advent of a driver rating system.

You are talking about people that like racing games, im talking about people who like racing.

"Complicated = unpredictable and for many players that's not fun, especially those with less skill I would presume." That, in theory, would be solved with the rating. I repeat, im always talking about rating races, not a normal public online.

@SlipZtrEm Please read the discuss with ImaRobot and Samus. I´ve already explained most of the things you are quoting.

You're still making assumptions on everybody else's tastes based on your own.

So, Are you telling me that the people that is always complaining about how bad public online is, that they dont want to be rammed every time they get in a public lobby, that they want to race properly, dont want a rating system?

I propose this then, people that only like playing offline maybe would not like a better AI... of course they would like it!

"Maybe people who like racing, only racing, could prefer offline" Dont think so. Pretty simple. Offline=AI. Clean online with rating=Always much better AI, much more excitement, just better.

AI doesn't randomly decide to drive backwards in a race because it feels it was unfairly hit the previous lap. AI doesn't let its friend play, who has never touched a driving game before. It doesn't disconnect when it's losing. It doesn't suffer connection lag issues.

There are plenty of reasons people don't want to play online all the time.

Jeez, i have repeated this like 4 or 5 times. Im always talking about rating races, not a normal public online.