Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Samus]

Jeez, i have repeated this like 4 or 5 times. Im always talking about rating races, not a normal public online.

You still seem to think a rating system solves everything. It doesn't. Someone with a good rating can decide to go 'rogue' for one race every now and then and it not have a huge affect on his overall rating. Someone with a good rating can still pass his controller over to his kid brother or friend for one race. Still bad for me if I'm in that one race. Then there are the aspect Slip mentioned that have nothing to do with rating, lag and disconnects. Plus what I covered, wanting a race at any time of the day, there is no guarantee evenly matched, clean racers are online.

Clean online with rating=Always much better AI, much more excitement, just better.

So no, this is still just your opinion. A rating system guarantees neither of those things.

 

[dimassa19]

What? Generatuons have nothing to do with features or graphics quality. They could release the PS5 with worse hardware than PS4, it would still be the next generation of console. That's how it works and GT is going to arrive over three years into this generation.

Put them side by side, the old and the new generation, the difference is...nothing. So, i think the GTS is not too late.
And i repeat, there is a very few games out there that you can say "Wow, this is the new generation!". (except for Battlefield1, maybe...)

 

[Samus]

Put them side by side, the old and the new generation, the difference is...nothing. So, i think the GTS is not too late.
And i repeat, there is a very few games out there that you can say "Wow, this is the new generation!". (except for Battlefield1, maybe...)

You appear to have completely missed the point. This generation of consoles started the day they were launched. That is a fact of how a 'generation' works. Just because you don't think the jump between generations was very big is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with generations.

So yes, for the final time, GT is appearing over three years into this console generation which if previous generations are an indication, will be approximately half way through the generation.

 

[dimassa19]

You appear to have completely missed the point. This generation of consoles started the day they were launched. That is a fact of how a 'generation' works. Just because you don't think the jump between generations was very big is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with generations.

So yes, for the final time, GT is appearing over three years into this console generation which if previous generations are an indication, will be approximately half way through the generation.

Starts in theory, of course, but no in practice...In my humble opinion.

 

[Samus]

Starts in theory, of course, but no in practice...In my humble opinion.

What exactly do you think generation means?

 

[dimassa19]

What exactly do you think generation means?

Wow factor.

 

[MXH]

Wow factor.

That's purely a subjective opinion.

Who and what decides what is a wow factor then?

 

[dimassa19]

That's purely a subjective opinion.

Who and what decides what is a wow factor then?

The ultimate costumer, in my humble opinion...

 

[Samus]

Wow factor.

Ok. It doesn't have anything to do with that. I appreciate English is not your first language and the media don't help things with how they write about them but:

There is no game that you may call Next-Gen..

You seem to be equating "next generation" to "next big jump". It doesn't. When you have children they're the next generation of your family. When they have kids, that is the following generation. That is what a generation is, when the next logical increment comes along it is "Next Gen". That's it. Nothing more. Once they arrive, they're "current gen". PS4, Xbox One and Wii U are the current generation of home consoles.

 

[Brend]

The ultimate costumer, in my humble opinion...

At the end of the day, a generation is defined by a set time-period. There's no such thing as a next-gen experience on PS4 because it's the current gen. We can't really control that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You are talking about people that like racing games, im talking about people who like racing.

"Complicated = unpredictable and for many players that's not fun, especially those with less skill I would presume." That, in theory, would be solved with the rating. I repeat, im always talking about rating races, not a normal public online.

@SlipZtrEm Please read the discuss with ImaRobot and Samus. I´ve already explained most of the things you are quoting.




So, Are you telling me that the people that is always complaining about how bad public online is, that they dont want to be rammed every time they get in a public lobby, that they want to race properly, dont want a rating system?

I propose this then, people that only like playing offline maybe would not like a better AI... of course they would like it!

"Maybe people who like racing, only racing, could prefer offline" Dont think so. Pretty simple. Offline=AI. Clean online with rating=Always much better AI, much more excitement, just better.



Jeez, i have repeated this like 4 or 5 times. Im always talking about rating races, not a normal public online.

I've already given you several reasons why people who enjoy games and racing would prefer offline racing but you seem to be blind to anything but online always = best. As I said, iRacing targets the most serious of all sim racers, it's the most expensive game, it's all about online racing and yet the entry levels are filled with lots of carnage and griefers in spite of a harsh rating system. Even if GTS's rating system is the greatest thing since sliced bread, everyone is going to have to invest several hours of precious time to finally make their way through to people of similar skill and temperment and, even then, human opponents are unpredictable, racing is in fixed conditions with no customizability, it's not easy or quick to quit and restart, you can't pause and walk away, making honest mistakes that impact other players can result in a torrent of abuse etc. etc. etc.

Online and offline racing both have their benefits and one size definitely does not fit all. You seem oblivious to this reality.

 

[SlimCharles]

You still seem to think a rating system solves everything. It doesn't.

No of course it doest solve everything. In Iracing there are some tricks, like, enter in an empty lobby or something like that and gain safety rating. But those things...

Someone with a good rating can decide to go 'rogue' for one race every now and then and it not have a huge affect on his overall rating. Someone with a good rating can still pass his controller over to his kid brother or friend for one race. Still bad for me if I'm in that one race.

...are very unusual. How many people leave others to play in their account?. And it works also the other way, people wont want to leave others to play in their account, because they have worked hard to get that driving and safety rating. The same with the other situation. True, it could happen with rating as well. But, rating would decrease those happenings.

Then there are the aspect Slip mentioned that have nothing to do with rating, lag and disconnects.

Dont think of it as a problem. We dont have many problem of conection nowadays.

Plus what I covered, wanting a race at any time of the day, there is no guarantee evenly matched, clean racers are online.

So no, this is still just your opinion. A rating system guarantees neither of those things.

I dont think it is a problem with the size of the GT community.

No? The rating matches you with people with the same driving and safety rating.

I've already given you several reasons why people who enjoy games and racing would prefer offline racing but you seem to be blind to anything but online always = best. As I said, iRacing targets the most serious of all sim racers, it's the most expensive game, it's all about online racing and yet the entry levels are filled with lots of carnage and griefers in spite of a harsh rating system. Even if GTS's rating system is the greatest thing since sliced bread, everyone is going to have to invest several hours of precious time to finally make their way through to people of similar skill and temperment and, even then, human opponents are unpredictable, racing is in fixed conditions with no customizability, it's not easy or quick to quit and restart, you can't pause and walk away, making honest mistakes that impact other players can result in a torrent of abuse etc. etc. etc.

Online and offline racing both have their benefits and one size definitely does not fit all. You seem oblivious to this reality.

Didnt say offline doesnt have benefits upon online with rating system. Of course a rating system isnt perfect, but it is way better than an online without it. And well implemented, with a bit of effort from the developer and the interested gamers, it is possible to separate rammer and good drivers.

The racing with AI vs racing with real people point. Are you denying that racing with real people isnt better? When you enjoy the most, when you play with your friends or when you play with the AI?

My conclusion: racing with real clean people is better than with AI. Rating doesnt solve everything, but it is a huge step up from a normal online and it could offer reguraly better races than with the AI. We dont know how GT will implement it and how good it will work, but it worths the effort.

 

[Samus]

Sorry, you're still putting all your stock in the rating system.

Dont think of it as a problem. We dont have many problem of conection nowadays.

Who is we? I have pretty solid fibre broadband, it can still drop occasionally and can certainly lag in the evenings when load is high. Plus the game servers themselves can go down (happens with a lot of games).

I dont think it is a problem with the size of the GT community.

Of course it is. If I fancy a race at 3am how many similarly skilled people are likely to be online in my region and wanting to do the same type of race as me? I might find someone in another region but then you introduce the possibility of lag and network issues. Maybe I'll get lucky and find 7 people. Still not going to compare to a race against 23 AI.

Clean online with rating=Always much better AI, much more excitement, just better.

No? The rating matches you with people with the same driving and safety rating.

Always much better AI? No, it can't if they aren't always there. Much more excitement? That depends entirely how the race goes. Even if someone has a similar rating to me they might still have half a second on me a lap. Or they might race too agressively for my liking. Just better? That is STILL your opinion. It isn't mine.

 

[dimassa19]

delete

 

[dimassa19]

"You seem to be equating "next generation" to "next big jump". It doesn't." Right @Samus, I did not see this "big jump" yet.

 

[Fredzy]

Is the premise of the argument with SlimCharles that he feels GTS could draw a traditional, huge GT player base as an essentially online-only game because online would no longer be the wild-west? Nah. If 1 out of 100 GT gamers are "into" online racing today (probably not too far off with that number) quadrupling that with GTS will be a success for PD.

I'd be shocked if the delay wasn't about PD scrubbing together a more traditional GT offline career and re-structuring the game accordingly. It shouldn't be a tall order. I'm sure they had plenty of ideas and base work done to implement such features in GTS and/or 7. For all of PD's flaws, they've been good at recognizing when they're headed down a dangerous path. Does anyone remember the early days of PS3 and the looming spectre of... microtransactions!?!

 

[Samus]

"You seem to be equating "next generation" to "next big jump". It doesn't." Right @Samus, I did not see this "big jump" yet.

No that isn't what I said. I said the term 'Next Generation' has nothing to do with the size of the jump, it is just the jump itself to the next iteration. All Playstation 4 games are "current gen".

I'm really not sure how many other ways I can say this.

 

[dimassa19]

No that isn't what I said. I said the term 'Next Generation' has nothing to do with the size of the jump, it is just the jump itself to the next iteration. All Playstation 4 games are "current gen".

I'm really not sure how many other ways I can say this.

If you not see any "big jump", this 'current gen' is the same to 'past gen'.

 

[ImaRobot]

If you not see any "big jump", this 'current gen' is the same to 'past gen'.

Regardless of how big of a jump or not, or what has wowed you or hasn't, it doesn't change the fact that the way you're saying it is, is not how a generation is defined. A generation is defined by the span of consoles life. The whole Xbox 360/PS3 era was one generation, PS4/Xbox One was the most recent "next generation" but is now considered the current generation. PS5/XboxWhatever will be considered the "Next Generation" regardless if its better or not. You can't just say that a game that looks pretty or has a lot of features is the "Next Generation" because that's impossible, because it's only the "Current Generation."

A generation doesn't change half way through it's life, it's considered next generation when the current one is discontinued, and the new console is released.

 

[dimassa19]

Regardless of how big of a jump or not, or what has wowed you or hasn't, it doesn't change the fact that the way you're saying it is, is not how a generation is defined. A generation is defined by the span of consoles life. The whole Xbox 360/PS3 era was one generation, PS4/Xbox One was the most recent "next generation" but is now considered the current generation. PS5/XboxWhatever will be considered the "Next Generation" regardless if its better or not. You can't just say that a game that looks pretty or has a lot of features is the "Next Generation" because that's impossible, because it's only the "Current Generation."

A generation doesn't change half way through it's life, it's considered next generation when the current one is discontinued, and the new console is released.

I have no doubt about this.

 

[Samus]

If you not see any "big jump", this 'current gen' is the same to 'past gen'.

Which is totally possible. It's still a different generation. For the last time, the quality or size of 'jump' has nothing to do with the generation. I can tell you now with 100% certainty no matter what hardware is inside the PS5 or how much better it performs than PS4, it will be considered the next generation of gaming console and then once it's out, the current generation of gaming console.

 

[SlimCharles]

Who is we? I have pretty solid fibre broadband, it can still drop occasionally and can certainly lag in the evenings when load is high. Plus the game servers themselves can go down (happens with a lot of games).

All the people that play online games. Of course that things happens, but not with the enough frecuency to disturb people. Online nowadays is the most important part of videogames.

 

[dimassa19]

Which is totally possible. It's still a different generation. For the last time, the quality or size of 'jump' has nothing to do with the generation. I can tell you now with 100% certainty no matter what hardware is inside the PS5 or how much better it performs than PS4, it will be considered the next generation of gaming console and then once it's out, the current generation of gaming console.

In this case, PD do not need to rush with GT Sport.

 

[Samus]

in this case, PD do not need to rush with GT Sport.

...eh I give up.

 

[dacc10]

Put them side by side, the old and the new generation, the difference is...nothing. So, i think the GTS is not too late.
And i repeat, there is a very few games out there that you can say "Wow, this is the new generation!". (except for Battlefield1, maybe...)

I can tell that, side by side, the difference is big. Grab Battlefield 4 as an example. On a PS3, you have less framerate, less quality in graphics, less players per game (24 player conquest vs 64 player conquest with bigger maps), and even with all these drawbacks, less stability.

On PS4, yes, sometimes it has framerate issues, especially when occurs the Levolution events. Apart from that, is far more stable even with higher graphics, higher framerate and bigger multiplayer maps and player number.

I'm pretty sure this is a big jump, if you compare the same game side by side in the different generations.

And, as the rest said, it's a new generation, in the same way a new generation of the VW Golf is still a new generation, no matter how little has changed compared to the previous model.

 

[dimassa19]

...eh I give up.

Finally.

 

[SlimCharles]

Of course it is. If I fancy a race at 3am how many similarly skilled people are likely to be online in my region and wanting to do the same type of race as me? I might find someone in another region but then you introduce the possibility of lag and network issues. Maybe I'll get lucky and find 7 people. Still not going to compare to a race against 23 AI.

Iracing has a community of 60k people, and there arent issues with matching people. GT what will have? 2 million? 1 million at least? For sure much more than IRacing. But this is a hypothetical, so better not to dig in.

Always much better AI? No, it can't if they aren't always there. Much more excitement? That depends entirely how the race goes. Even if someone has a similar rating to me they might still have half a second on me a lap. Or they might race too agressively for my liking. Just better? That is STILL your opinion. It isn't mine.

Always much better AI, because it always going to be more complex. That could happen with the AI too.

PD: Sorry for double post, but dont know why i could edit my previous comment

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If you not see any "big jump", this 'current gen' is the same to 'past gen'.

That doesn't matter. The PS4 and XB1 are still the current generation. The PS3 and X360 are still the last generation. Regardless of your own personal ideas on what constitutes a generation change.

Frankly, you're talking nonsense.

 

[Samus]

Anyway irrespective of any generation talk the fact is still that the first GT of any kind will appear on the console over three years after release and that means if they want to create a second, full title on the PS4 it's going to end up exactly like GT6 - releasing right around the time the next console arrives. They might not even get a chance if the new consoles arrive in 2019 as some predict.

So the pertinent point of all this is basically that GT Sport seems highly likely to be the only GT title on PS4 and will just see updates for the rest of the PS4 life, at best.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Online nowadays is the most important part of videogames.

No it isn't. A well crafted single player experience can provide way more fun than any online mode can.