Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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For the average joe, you'll see this really pretty game with a name you're familiar with that gets shown at E3 and ads at the cinema and you see another crowd-funded racer that is supposedly very hard to drive. For average joe, the choice is really easy (won't even get into install bases so easier to find players, etc).
The game wasn't hard to play though, it's just that there was a lack of optimization at the release concerning the pad. The underlying physics engine wasn't too hard to adjust too outside of that. Either way the "Average Joe" is not going to know of any of the issues you present. If I see them both side by side, coming in as a casual player, they're both already looking like extremely pretty games.

To be honest, I've seen way more ad's about Pcars 2 than I have about GTS. Whether it's from racing event's, or just getting around.
 
The game wasn't hard to play though, it's just that there was a lack of optimization at the release concerning the pad. The underlying physics engine wasn't too hard to adjust too outside of that. Either way the "Average Joe" is not going to know of any of the issues you present. If I see them both side by side, coming in as a casual player, they're both already looking like extremely pretty games.

To be honest, I've seen way more ad's about Pcars 2 than I have about GTS. Whether it's from racing event's, or just getting around.

I'm a gtacademy finalist and yesterday It took me 4 tries to get through a 5 lap race in brands hatch in a GT3 car.

You haven't seen ads because the marketing push hasn't started yet. GTSport ads will likely be upfront in champions league matches, etc.
 
My first race @WillowSprings in a Subaru surrounded by the fast(er) TT's ;)

Any GTP members on this list?

Now on to the next race in about 10 minutes

Gran Turismo™Sport Besloten bèta - testversie_20170417190950.jpg
 
EDK
One wonders if those lost sales are the most casual players who are not purchasing next generation consoles and are getting their gaming fix with smart phones and tablets?

Both the PS4 and X1 are selling faster (with the PS4 being near PS2 fast with 53mi+ going to its fourth year) their their last gen brothers. And X360/PS3 reached ~80mi each.
So at the very least there'd be a "casual" demographic supplementation going.

It's more likely that there has been a generational swing away from racing games, and observing FIA talks, racing in general, so gaming interest could be a consequence of that.

And, in my opinion, GTS sales will solely depend on its marketing campaign. PS brand is as strong as it has ever been, even niche japanese games are managing to sell well in all three markets.
 
I'm a gtacademy finalist and yesterday It took me 4 tries to get through a 5 lap race in brands hatch in a GT3 car.

You haven't seen ads because the marketing push hasn't started yet. GTSport ads will likely be upfront in champions league matches, etc.
And I'm not an anything finalist and mainly just played different racing games and have no real life race track experience. Outside of the wonkyiness of the pad input issues, I was able to match my pace fairly easily on both games. Hell, my playstyle of tapping the sticks rather than smoothly modulating through a turn is even translating pretty easily on Pcars. I stand by the game not being hard. Am I the fastest in the world? No, but I'm consistently netting in the top 1% on Forza, sometimes in the first few hundred of players. I don't feel it's anymore difficult.

You're right that the marketing push hasn't started, but if you're going to talk about seeing ads in the first place, than maybe it wasn't right to bring it up? Either way, like I said, I'll be seeing way more of Pcars in public places, so me being the average Joe, this is going to be what sticks out to me because they both already look extremely pretty.
 
And I'm not an anything finalist and mainly just played different racing games and have no real life race track experience in real life. Outside of the wonkyiness of the pad input issues, I was able to match my pace fairly easily on both games. Hell, my playstyle of tapping the sticks rather than smoothly modulating through a turn even translating pretty easily on Pcars. I stand by the game not being hard.

You're right that the marketing push hasn't started, but if you're going to talk about seeing ads in the first place, than maybe it wasn't right to bring it up? Either way, like I said, I'll be seeing way more of Pcars in public places, so me being the average Joe, this is going to be what sticks out to me.

I should say that I'm driving with the wheel. But I'll have to disagree, PCARS in my opinion is hard and significantly harder than a GT game.

GTSport will have Sony's marketing push and will likely receive similar attention to UC4 and HZD. Also according to @Brend there was an GTSport ad at the cinema he went to yesterday.
 
EDK
One wonders if those lost sales are the most casual players who are not purchasing next generation consoles and are getting their gaming fix with smart phones and tablets?

Oh, definitely. Mobile gaming has blown up since the last generation launched. It's hard to believe, but the first iPhone didn't even launch until the PS3 was a year old. That said, this generation is selling incredibly well in terms of hardware.

The demographic has changed too: recent numbers suggest just as many women play video games as men do (admittedly, with casual mobile gaming rolled into the mix). Guess which genre is amongst the lowest in terms of female participation? Yep, racing games.

In the same study, there's a link that talks about how female gamers primarily have different motivators for playing games (completion and fantasy versus the competition and destruction men place as their top priorities). So a racing game that puts extra emphasis on competition? Good luck! :lol:

My girlfriend doesn't consider herself a gamer, and would never purchase a console for herself. But she probably puts nearly as many hours into games on a weekly basis as I do, just on her phone instead.

In terms of sales. Like I said above, Forza in on a different platform and PCARS won't eat much into GTSport's consumer base in my opinion.

A game doesn't have to be on the same platform to be competition. PS4 hasn't offered much for the racing genre this generation: there are folks out there that may have jumped ship to the XB1 or PC (where FM7 will also be available) and won't be coming back.

I don't see how one can deny PCARS2 could possibly eat into GT Sport's sales figures. They're both sim-oriented games with a heavy focus on eSports. PCARS2 offers the dynamic time and weather GT6 players won't be getting from GT Sport, and a car list that isn't limited to things from the last eight years (nor largely made-up for the game).

You could make the argument that the shadow of PCARS1's less-than-ideal launch could loom over the sequel, and that's fair — but then, you'd have to make the same argument for GT Sport and the nearly two-year wait for the track editor in GT6, or the still-incomplete Vision GT program.

I meant the other games this gen that didn't reach 7 million+ sales.

Okay. Those big sellers have mainstream appeal. Does a hyper-focused GT game have more of that than Uncharted 4, or Overwatch, or Battlefront? It might! IMO, those games benefit from a faultless developer reputation, an air of accessibility in a popular genre, and arguably the biggest entertainment brand name of all time, respectively. GT Sport might also get a heavy marketing push to help, of course.

Famine makes a valid argument but I have reservations. GT6 sold less for obvious reasons (and even then it sold a huge amount). FH3 is on track to be the best selling Forza IIRC so sales seem to be picking up. DC had a disastrous launch, PCARS and AC are a new ip (one was crowdfunded).

It's simply impossible to pinpoint the reasons GT6 sold less than its predecessors. It could be a variety of things. It also might've been right in line with what Polyphony and Sony were expecting — although I'd guess that the long wait before any official figures were released would imply that wasn't quite the case.

Is there a genre fatigue? I think there is, but just how big?

big enough for GTS to have less sales than GT6?, not in my opinion.

Which sort of brings me back to the earlier high-seller point: what makes you think GTS will have substantially more mainstream appeal than GT6 did when it's a more narrow-focus game? Genuinely curious, because currently I'm just not seeing it. As I mentioned before, I've no idea where the game will land in term of franchise sales, because it's so completely different than anything that's come before, that there are no reference points. The most similar game in the genre is a PC title with a vastly smaller audience and a much different payment scheme. We're heading into uncharted waters (pun fully intended).
 
I should say that I'm driving with the wheel. But I'll have to disagree, PCARS in my opinion is hard and significantly harder than a GT game.
I would imagine that driving from a wheel would be better than what pad users had to deal with. With such a small amount of rotation available within the sticks, it just makes it all the more harder with transitions compared to a wheel, or atleast I would imagine.

It could probably be that, I'm comparing it coming straight out of Forza, so that's where the difference probably lies. I'll still hold to the fact that it's not significantly harder, either way. I think the most difficult thing about going from game to game would be re-learning how the game reacts to your inputs. Pad optimization goes a long way.

GTSport will have Sony's marketing push and will likely receive similar attention to UC4 and HZD. Also according to @Brend there was an GTSport ad at the cinema he went to yesterday.
I've only been to two events this year, but both had rather large Pcars advertisements laid around.

I'm really interested to see how it pans out for both games. They both seem to have an extremely similar focus.
 
EDK
Right, I agree with your sentiment as well, it's just that people are making decisions with how to commit their time and money, and additional devices like PC's and Consoles are losing out.

Those of us who came up with them and are used to having these other devices will likely continue to use/have them.

But I have to believe it's a factor.

You're right that time and money as well changed people's mind these days to have some entertainment in their spare time. Mobile games offer solutions of practicality and availability when you need it. While consoles in the other hand can't rely to what you need when you are far from your living room (except Nintendo Switch in this case, that one is hybrid console). For those who already committed for the like of consoles and PC may find it those devices are still enjoyable than compact sized mobile games because they are already used to it and prefer to use it other than anything for just having some good times at the weekend or in their break from days full of work.

In the end, it is a matter of personal preferences. Whether you practical and simple kind of guy that needs to play game everywhere as you can with a single device or a person who enjoy the full experience of playing games sitting in your living room with screen in front of you with various peripherals (pad, wheels, VR, etc)
 
I don't see how one can deny PCARS2 could possibly eat into GT Sport's sales figures. They're both sim-oriented games with a heavy focus on eSports. PCARS2 offers the dynamic time and weather GT6 players won't be getting from GT Sport, and a car list that isn't limited to things from the last eight years (nor largely made-up for the game).

You could make the argument that the shadow of PCARS1's less-than-ideal launch could loom over the sequel, and that's fair — but then, you'd have to make the same argument for GT Sport and the nearly two-year wait for the track editor in GT6, or the still-incomplete Vision GT program.

PCARS 1's launch is a factor but the main deciding factor is the brand name/awareness. They're both on paper are going after the same audience but with marketing Sony will no doubt focus on GTSport being accessible (the 7 to 77 tag line is an indication). It will take a huge effort to sway the average consumer into buying PCARS 2 instead.

Okay. Those big sellers have mainstream appeal. Does a hyper-focused GT game have more of that than Uncharted 4, or Overwatch, or Battlefront? It might! IMO, those games benefit from a faultless developer reputation, an air of accessibility in a popular genre, and arguably the biggest entertainment brand name of all time, respectively. GT Sport might also get a heavy marketing push to help, of course.

GT was more or less matching Uncharted's sales during the PS3 days, why not repeat the feat. Sales trend this gen have shown multiplayer games to be way more popular than single player oriented games. The E-sport focus could actually give a boost to sales rather than a decline.

It's simply impossible to pinpoint the reasons GT6 sold less than its predecessors. It could be a variety of things. It also might've been right in line with what Polyphony and Sony were expecting — although I'd guess that the long wait before any official figures were released would imply that wasn't quite the case.

The timing. Releasing a game at the back end of a console cycle (one that lasted for far too long) will cause a sales decline. Also GT6 wasn't exactly a different animal than its predecessor. Even I was considering whether to actually buy it or use the money towards a PS4.

My confidence in GTSport is because of how Sony is dominating this gen (and how their first party titles have been selling really well). I also think the prices of the PS4s and Pros will help (bundle galore), it's also a fresh approach with some of the series' main complaints being addressed. The question is, why wouldn't it sell in your opinion?
 
EDK
Right, I agree with your sentiment as well, it's just that people are making decisions with how to commit their time and money, and additional devices like PC's and Consoles are losing out.

Those of us who came up with them and are used to having these other devices will likely continue to use/have them.

But I have to believe it's a factor.
While the PS4 isn't selling anywhere near as fast as Sony keeps putting out press releases to allude to, I'm guessing when all is said and done this generation will be the most explosive in sales overall in the history of the industry (ignoring the Wii). When the PS2 was basically perpetually almost out of stock for several month periods every year, it was also in pretty much a league of its own its entire life and functionally had the market to itself. This time, while the disastrous first year and a half of the Xbone have doomed it to a far second place, it's generally in the time zone with the PS4 now, which is certainly not something the Xbox or the Gamecube could have ever claimed.


The main impact the phone and tablet market seems to have carved out was against Nintendo when the Wii U flopped.
 
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While the PS4 isn't selling anywhere near as fast as Sony keeps putting out press releases to allude to, I'm guessing when all is said and done this generation will be the most explosive in sales overall. When the PS2 was basically perpetually almost out of stock for several month periods every year, it was also in pretty much a league of its own its entire life and functionally had the market to itself. This time, while the disastrous first year and a half of the Xbone have doomed it to a far second place, it's generally in the time zone with the PS4 now, which is certainly not something the Xbox or the Gamecube could have ever claimed.
This post is hilarious and full of lies.
 
My two cents : the market of Gran Turismo is bigger than the market of racing games. When GT3 sold 15 million copies, it's 15 million of Gran Turismo. IMO, the golden era of GT is over. So where are those 15 million buyers today? Forza 6 is arguably a better car game than GT6, Project Cars a better sim but they are far from the 10 million copies. Forza 5, FH2, Forza 6 and FH3 : four good games, unfortunately, they don't have the GT effect on people. (Forza Horizon is the main franchise for me)
If GTSport looks meh for the casual player, he won't buy it AND he won't probably buy another racing game because GT is dead for him.
 
I was right about the first post you quoted
Forza 6 hasn't sold 12 million copies, and you yourself were apparently so unconvinced about GT Sport being a bad game that you said this 4 days later:
GT Sport looks to be heading in the right direction. I'm looking forward to the finish product in November.


and the second post will soon be true.
About the only way GT Sport will fail to sell more than 500,000 copies is if they don't release it at all.


Nice sidestep tho.
I haven't sidestepped anything. I stand by my original post and remain unconvinced that a member who seemingly has Tourette's saying it is "hilarious and full of lies" and then blatantly refusing to justify anything to that effect is proof in and of itself. As it stands, you might want to get working on a "why" for the "hilarious and full of lies" bit. I certainly may have made a mistake in my numbers, but, again, point out the wrong part.

Nice sidestep, though.
 
Forza 6 hasn't sold 12 million copies, and you yourself were apparently so unconvinced about GT Sport being a bad game that you said this 4 days later:




About the only way GT Sport will fail to sell more than 500,000 copies is if they don't release it at all.



I haven't sidestepped anything. I stand by my original post and remain unconvinced that a member who seemingly has Tourette's saying it is "hilarious and full of lies" and then blatantly refusing to justify anything to that effect is proof in and of itself. As it stands, you might want to get working on a "why" for the "hilarious and full of lies" bit.

Nice sidestep, though.
I'm going to end this right now because clearly you have it out for me.
 
I'm going to end this right now because clearly you have it out for me.
:lol: What? You're the one that came in saying this;

This post is hilarious and full of lies.

So how is it that he has it out for you?

The funny thing about your first quote is that there isn't even 12 million individual people on the leaderboards for the very first race on Forza 6.
 
While the PS4 isn't selling anywhere near as fast as Sony keeps putting out press releases to allude to, I'm guessing when all is said and done this generation will be the most explosive in sales overall in the history of the industry (ignoring the Wii). When the PS2 was basically perpetually almost out of stock for several month periods every year, it was also in pretty much a league of its own its entire life and functionally had the market to itself. This time, while the disastrous first year and a half of the Xbone have doomed it to a far second place, it's generally in the time zone with the PS4 now, which is certainly not something the Xbox or the Gamecube could have ever claimed.

Bold 1) Alternative data? Sony has announced it sold through as 53.4mi as of the end of 2016.

Comparatively, they had shipped from production 51.2-53.8mi PS2's in the same time frame.

So yes, it's selling as fast as the DATA SHOWS.

Italics 1) Thing is: it's already explosive. It's already not as explosive as the Wii. And in the fourth year PS2 went to ship another 20mi, while Sony's PS4 estimate for the year was 13mi I think (we should know in a couple of weeks their estimate for FY2017). So unless they are completely surprised, it won't keep up with the PS2 in the long run either.

Bold 2) I'll just assume you are talking North America, because WW the gap keeps increasing at close to a million each quarter. As you know, X1 is at ~26mi WW (and at this point it's at the same pace as X360 actually).
 

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