Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[jaytmtb]

And has anyone received an invitation to GT Sport beta lately?
I'm still waiting to get one, in vain I guess!

 

[Haitauer]

Just a recap here. Stumbled on to this old announcement trailer, and after all the heated conversation lately it opened to me.

Instead of a realistic racing simulator PDI and FIA are aiming for an entertaining motorsport experience for the masses and an injection of excitement to people who have lost or yet to find interest in motorsport. GTS is not a game for gamers let alone a simulator for the hardcore sim-racers - its a cure for the loss of spectators in motorsports. (or an advertisement for FIA if you like..)

And they said it right there a year a go - "Discover again the excitement of motorsports"



Maybe they are also not just going head to head against the likes of Assetto Corsa and Project Cars - they might be trying to bring new crowds to the whole genre. Everybody wins..

Many things make sense if this is true.

Probably in the tvs near you after E3..

 

[doblocruiser]

Just a recap here. Stumbled on to this old announcement trailer, and after all the heated conversation lately it opened to me.

Instead of a realistic racing simulator PDI and FIA are aiming for an entertaining motorsport experience for the masses and an injection of excitement to people who have lost or yet to find interest in motorsport. GTS is not a game for gamers let alone a simulator for the hardcore sim-racers - its a cure for the loss of spectators in motorsports. (or an advertisement for FIA if you like..)

And they said it right there a year a go - "Discover again the excitement of motorsports"



Many things make sense if this is true.

Probably in the tvs near you after E3..

I can see your point but if PD wants to bring back excitement for motorsport again they probably would have done a better job if they had included all the stuff that was included in the beginning of the trailer. It would have been nice if indeed they tried to capture the essense of motorsport and covering those 100 years of history in the game. They haven't shown anything (yet) which shows their enthusiasm for motorsport in their game. Their trailer (beginning) shows the opposite of where GTS is at the moment. Hopefully E3 clears many things up in terms of content, features and surely the releasedate.

 

[Haitauer]

I can see your point but if PD wants to bring back excitement for motorsport again they probably would have done a better job if they had included all the stuff that was included in the beginning of the trailer. It would have been nice if indeed they tried to capture the essense of motorsport and covering those 100 years of history in the game. They haven't shown anything (yet) which shows their enthusiasm for motorsport in their game. Their trailer (beginning) shows the opposite of where GTS is at the moment. Hopefully E3 clears many things up in terms of content, features and surely the releasedate.

Maybe its just baby steps. GTS as an advertisement for the industry, esports and motorsports. Later a new game for the new mass of gamers. I think Forza Horizon has done a very good job bringing new crowds to driving games - GTS could do the same but with more motorsports oriented aim.

And yes - i would love to see the vintage cars/tracks of past 100 years, but that might be wishfull thinking. Maybe in another title.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Just a recap here. Stumbled on to this old announcement trailer, and after all the heated conversation lately it opened to me.

Instead of a realistic racing simulator PDI and FIA are aiming for an entertaining motorsport experience for the masses and an injection of excitement to people who have lost or yet to find interest in motorsport. GTS is not a game for gamers let alone a simulator for the hardcore sim-racers - its a cure for the loss of spectators in motorsports. (or an advertisement for FIA if you like..)

And they said it right there a year a go - "Discover again the excitement of motorsports"



Maybe they are also not just going head to head against the likes of Assetto Corsa and Project Cars - they might be trying to bring new crowds to the whole genre. Everybody wins..

Many things make sense if this is true.

Probably in the tvs near you after E3..

Other than ghosting and a rating system that doesn't seem to prevent or even discourage intentional contact at crucial points in the race, there isn't anything really different about the racing experience in GTS vs. previous GT games. SRF isn't new, grass that has the grip of tarmac isn't new. Controller optimization isn't new. I get that comprises of some sort might have to be made to attract the punters, but if the game isn't also designed to appeal to the more experienced players that are actually still going to be playing 6 months or a year down the road when all the punters have graduated to the next new and shiny thing that comes along, I think that's a major mistake on their part. A lot of people enjoy progression and being able to push their limits and you can't do that if the game holds your hand while driving close to other cars or off on the grass.

 

[Gr4ndy]

 

[sems4arsenal]

Agree with pretty much all they said. It's nice to see a proper analysis.

One thing I wished they addressed was how the trees appear to have better shadows when you get closer (LOD pop in?) really distracting on the Nurburgring.

 

[Johnnypenso]

A generational leap in graphics no doubt and no surprise there.

 

[Haitauer]

Other than ghosting and a rating system that doesn't seem to prevent or even discourage intentional contact at crucial points in the race, there isn't anything really different about the racing experience in GTS vs. previous GT games. SRF isn't new, grass that has the grip of tarmac isn't new. Controller optimization isn't new. I get that comprises of some sort might have to be made to attract the punters, but if the game isn't also designed to appeal to the more experienced players that are actually still going to be playing 6 months or a year down the road when all the punters have graduated to the next new and shiny thing that comes along, I think that's a major mistake on their part. A lot of people enjoy progression and being able to push their limits and you can't do that if the game holds your hand while driving close to other cars or off on the grass.

Its not for everyone. I can tell my 10 year old couldn't care less about AC or Pcars - yet he loves playing around in GT6 with his friends. We just have to accept we might not be the target group for GT anymore. Im not saying we wont be, but we might not be. (speculation/opinion - just to be very clear). PDI just might have to choose between realistic sim racing and accessibility for big crowds, and i could bet they choose the latter. Thats what they do as a first party developer. Sell a lot. Part of GT6 sales numbers is down to the fact GT5 was already on PS3 and for casual player there wasnt much reason for update. Its completely another story now with first GT of current generation. It would sell even if it was graphics updated gt5 all over again.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Its not for everyone. I can tell my 10 year old couldn't care less about AC or Pcars - yet he loves playing around in GT6 with his friends. We just have to accept we might not be the target group for GT anymore. Im not saying we wont be, but we might not be. (speculation/opinion - just to be very clear). PDI just might have to choose between realistic sim racing and accessibility for big crowds, and i could bet they choose the latter. Thats what they do as a first party developer. Sell a lot. Part of GT6 sales numbers is down to the fact GT5 was already on PS3 and for casual player there wasnt much reason for update. Its completely another story now with first GT of current generation. It would sell even if it was graphics updated gt5 all over again.

I didn't mention anything about realistic sim or any other game series in my comment. My concern is about just how broad the appeal of the game will be and how much longevity it will have for players who want to get beyond the punter stage.

 

[Haitauer]

I didn't mention anything about realistic sim or any other game series in my comment. My concern is about just how broad the appeal of the game will be and how much longevity it will have for players who want to get beyond the punter stage.

I know. And i just speculated IF they have to choose between the target groups and IF the casual group is something like 4/5 vs 1/5 racers, its no brainer. Im also not so sure studios worry about longevity that much anymore other than milking with dlc. Seems more like take the money and off to new project.

To speak the truth, i think we gamers are better of with studios like Kunos putting all their love and recourses to realism, as its easier for them to do without compromises due to accessibility. Like i said i probably keep playing both.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Looks like La Sarthe might be a playable track after all. This is another picture of it, but the scape we had earlier was at a different angle.

 

[AudiMan2011]

View attachment 650172

Looks like La Sarthe might be a playable track after all. This is another picture of it, but the scape we had earlier was at a different angle.

That's the same La Sarthe scape as what was shown before.

 

[MisterWaffles]

That's the same La Sarthe scape as what was shown before.

Okay, just thought I'd post that here because people were making a big deal about seeing it in that brochure in another thread.

 

[queleuleu]

Agree with pretty much all they said. It's nice to see a proper analysis.

One thing I wished they addressed was how the trees appear to have better shadows when you get closer (LOD pop in?) really distracting on the Nurburgring.

My two cents : Poly is too dogmatic concerning graphics and real life. When it works like at Willow Springs and its gorgeous lighting, it's amazing. IMO Sometimes Poly fails to achieve impressive graphics. No problem, it's OK and given the hardware, there are some trades off. However, instead of hiding an ugly/unfinished scape thanks to something eye-catching like a blinding sun, fog, a chopper, lens flares, blur... they make the choice to let the scape that way.

 

[marcvic]

You don't think so? OK. My impression at the release of Horizon 3 was that it got a lot of hype for being one of the best reviewed racing games in years. It was also one of the first big cross-platform releases that Microsoft pushed between X1 and PC through the Windows Store, and I thought there was significant interest just in how well that would go after the problems with Quantum Break, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Gears of War.

I felt like it got a surprisingly large amount of coverage for what it was, but I guess it's hard to tell these days what with the way the internet learns one's tastes and curates itself towards them.



I'd call that wishful thinking until I hear otherwise. You can find people on here who were sure that GTS was going to be GT7.



Highly unlikely. You don't delay a game to add content unless it's a complete abortion without it. Polyphony had already cancelled the 2016 beta to gain development time, so we knew they were running behind. There was also hints in how little they'd shown off and how unpolished some of it was that it was going to be very difficult for them to hit a 2016 release date.

We're nearly halfway through 2017, and we haven't seen night racing or rain. We haven't seen damage. We've only seen a handful of tracks. We've probably seen most of the cars, but only if you count each separate Group version as a unique car. They're still working on matchmaking, physics and penalty systems. Consider that they need to finalise all that and then add on a couple of months of pure bug squashing, then another month of production and shipping before the release date.

I think that they've got plenty to work on just finishing what we know about so far. Adding more content would almost certainly be a mistake for them at this point. They need what they have already to shine like polished gold. The last thing they need is another half finished smorgasbord like GT5 and 6.

Exactly... "for what it was". Even though FH3 was so well received and highly praised, it still didn't get that extended media coverage that a Rise of the Tomb Raider or a Gears of War gets - all those accolades that you mentioned are true though.

Regarding the offline experience - maybe it's not a bolstering of offline experience that I'm hoping for, but actually just getting an understanding of how game progression and car collecting will work as a whole.

What we do know:

1. There is a currency system
2. One of the circuit experience events is learning the Nurburgring sectors. We do not know what the other 34 are.
3. Kaz said that the game could have been called GT7
4. He also said that PD are going back to GT's roots.
5. As well as Sport Mode, they also spend a lot of time talking about improvements in A.I.


Camp One:
All of 117 offline events are nothing more than training exercises that get you a few credits and just meant to get you ready for online racing, where the significant bulk of currency is to be received. In other words, once the 117 events are completed, credits are only earned through racing online. Logic seems to be that there is nothing confirmed, so what we see right now is what we get. If this were the case that means that the player would be unable to earn credits if they do not have online, or something goes wrong with PD servers - under each circumstance the game becomes useless. Also, if races were to be held at only certain times of day, that means we can only make progress in GT Sport on PD's clock - ouch!

Camp Two:
Those that think that there are multiple racing series hidden within the events, namely the circuit experience events. Logic for this camp is that the nurburgring circuit is just one of 20 tracks available in the game, and if that is the case then there are 15 more events that are unaccounted for. And with the beginners school and mission challenge modes, they can't possibly continue to throw track sections at you, could they? If you look at the nurburgring event, there are 6 tabs open. What if the unaccounted for 15 circuit events had one or more tabs that represented either races or tournaments? There's your offline credits/"career" mode.

Camp Three:
There won't be any offline credits to be gained, but you can earn credits without racing online through regularly rotated seasonal events. These events could be rotated weekly or even daily, like in sport mode daily races. This actually bodes well for their focus on regularly rotating events, and improvements in AI. This would mean that the game has a never-ending career mode - pretty cool!

Camp Four:
Credits can be won in arcade mode. PD gives users the ability to set up their own races and you receive credits in proportion to the car class, AI difficulty, no. of laps, gap in PP (or any combination of). This would be giving the player a lot of control over how they progress in the game (maybe too much). You can start off your garage with the credits that you win doing the 117 offline events, and build as you do more arcade races.

I'm residing in between camps one and two. Given what we know, those would be the two most likely scenarios.

If you think about it, it seems like the 1st scenario seems to be the most unlikely. It would imply that GT Sport is an online-only game, you must have internet, you must progress only through online pvp gaming and PD is putting the games success rate 100% on their server infrastructure and player ratings. And if you are a person who can not afford internet, have crappy internet or in a region with no internet, this game is just not for you. Given that this is one of Sony's console movers, and the fact that these guys have over 20 years experience developing/selling racing sims, I would think that they have more sense than to back themselves into such a tight corner. This scenario seems highly unlikely. If true however, than yes, we all have something very big to worry about with GT Sport.

I'm sure I left something out of the "what we do know" part above - any thoughts?

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

I am getting my beta code (Asia). But I am having trouble logging in to the bug tracker. It says it is only for American PSN only :/ what about the EU all this time?

Thanks.

 

[Imari]

If you think about it, it seems like the 1st scenario seems to be the most unlikely. It would imply that GT Sport is an online-only game, you must have internet, you must progress only through online pvp gaming and PD is putting the games success rate 100% on their server infrastructure and player ratings. And if you are a person who can not afford internet, have crappy internet or in a region with no internet, this game is just not for you. Given that this is one of Sony's console movers, and the fact that these guys have over 20 years experience developing/selling racing sims, I would think that they have more sense than to back themselves into such a tight corner. This scenario seems highly unlikely. If true however, than yes, we all have something very big to worry about with GT Sport.

Gran Turismo is no longer a console mover. It hasn't been since GT5. GT6 didn't move consoles, it was at the end of a generation. GTS is four years after release of PS4. There are 53 million of them in the wild already. The time for a major hardware mover is long past.

Polyphony have 20 years of experience developing racing sims, and they've spent the last ten years showing us that they ran out of fresh ideas in the first ten. If you think that they couldn't put out an online only game, you weren't paying attention. Nobody thought they'd put out a game with 800 untouched PS2 assets, or a course maker that was two years late and required a tablet either. Polyphony do good work, but they're absolutely not immune to making catastrophically face palmable decisions.

Not to mention that they're shooting for an "e-sports" title. The big e-sports titles tend to be online only. DotA. LoL. CS:GO. Even Street Fighter V launched with basically no single player content, and you could say the same things about Capcom that you said about Polyphony. Years developing fighting games, yet they burned a bunch of people by launching with the fighting game equivalent of online and arcade mode.

I'd be careful with what assumptions you make regards Polyphony making the "logical" decision. They don't see the world the same way you do.

 

[marcvic]

Gran Turismo is no longer a console mover. It hasn't been since GT5. GT6 didn't move consoles, it was at the end of a generation. GTS is four years after release of PS4. There are 53 million of them in the wild already. The time for a major hardware mover is long past.

Polyphony have 20 years of experience developing racing sims, and they've spent the last ten years showing us that they ran out of fresh ideas in the first ten. If you think that they couldn't put out an online only game, you weren't paying attention. Nobody thought they'd put out a game with 800 untouched PS2 assets, or a course maker that was two years late and required a tablet either. Polyphony do good work, but they're absolutely not immune to making catastrophically face palmable decisions.

Not to mention that they're shooting for an "e-sports" title. The big e-sports titles tend to be online only. DotA. LoL. CS:GO. Even Street Fighter V launched with basically no single player content, and you could say the same things about Capcom that you said about Polyphony. Years developing fighting games, yet they burned a bunch of people by launching with the fighting game equivalent of online and arcade mode.

I'd be careful with what assumptions you make regards Polyphony making the "logical" decision. They don't see the world the same way you do.

Yes there are 53M PS4s in the wild, but with new titles, especially exclusives, there are many more to be sold. And GT is a very well-known exclusive title. I think it'll move quite a bit of consoles despite coming 4 years after the launch of PS4. It's the next GT title that I'd worry about, as it might be releasing towards the end of the cycle.

You're right about PS3 era mistakes (although I am going to miss all of my 80's-90's JDM cars, RUF Boxter, and others provided with the "used car market" ). That, coupled with the SFV criticism/low sales, you think that they would see the value in providing some offline game progression as a fallback plan.

How the game progresses is what I want to understand. It's still not very clear. How do you, @Imari think a GT online-only platform will be structured? Do you think they'd only allow races for certain periods of the day, the way they do with the beta?

For me, the online racing looks engaging, tense and very fun. The latest races I've seen in videos/trailer thread look great - maybe that's the match-making rating system working it's magic? I'll be getting the game/PS4 Pro regardless of the offline content.

I'm just trying to see this online-only scenario from PD's perspective, and how they would make this kind of structure work.

 

[daan]

We just have to accept we might not be the target group for GT anymore. Im not saying we wont be, but we might not be. (speculation/opinion - just to be very clear). PDI just might have to choose between realistic sim racing and accessibility for big crowds, and i could bet they choose the latter. Thats what they do as a first party developer. Sell a lot. Part of GT6 sales numbers is down to the fact GT5 was already on PS3 and for casual player there wasnt much reason for update. Its completely another story now with first GT of current generation. It would sell even if it was graphics updated gt5 all over again.

Most of us play the game way more than your average gamer/player, so PD probably should listen to us a bit, and I'm pretty sure they have done, but we are a minority. There are 263,000 members here, some of whom haven't played GT, quite a lot of whom don't like it, some used to play it but don't any more, and some of whom (spammers) haven't even heard of it. Our membership is a fair way short of GT6's ~5 million sales, and a drop in the ocean compared to GT3's 15 million.

IMO GT Sport is going to be an accessible way for your average person to get into (semi-serious) online racing. It's not going to be hardcore. It's not going to have physics that'll throw you at the scenery every corner. It'll (hopefully) be a game that you can pick up and play (with a controller or a wheel) with a multitude of cars, on a number of circuits, with a bunch of your mates (or folk who race in the same manner you do.)

In the beta, I have had annoying races with some idiots, but the most have been good, close, exiting races, and I can really see the potential of GT Sport once we can race against the people on our friends lists.

 

[marcvic]

Most of us play the game way more than your average gamer/player, so PD probably should listen to us a bit, and I'm pretty sure they have done, but we are a minority. There are 263,000 members here, some of whom haven't played GT, quite a lot of whom don't like it, some used to play it but don't any more, and some of whom (spammers) haven't even heard of it. Our membership is a fair way short of GT6's ~5 million sales, and a drop in the ocean compared to GT3's 15 million.

IMO GT Sport is going to be an accessible way for your average person to get into (semi-serious) online racing. It's not going to be hardcore. It's not going to have physics that'll throw you at the scenery every corner. It'll (hopefully) be a game that you can pick up and play (with a controller or a wheel) with a multitude of cars, on a number of circuits, with a bunch of your mates (or folk who race in the same manner you do.)

In the beta, I have had annoying races with some idiots, but the most have been good, close, exiting races, and I can really see the potential of GT Sport once we can race against the people on our friends lists.

What are your thoughts on there being any offline racing that progresses your car count/game progression?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Why have the Jag and Vette Gr.3 cars lost their yellow headlights?

Some of the small detail changes made in the beta are just bewildering.

 

[trustjab]

Why have the Jag and Vette Gr.3 cars lost their yellow headlights?

Some of the small detail changes made in the beta are just bewildering.

I just brought up this in another thread, but irl, the yellow tint on the headlights are for endurance races (like the N24) while clear lights are sprint style. I wonder if you'll be able to switch back and forth in the final game?

 

[GBalao888]

Why have the Jag and Vette Gr.3 cars lost their yellow headlights?

Some of the small detail changes made in the beta are just bewildering.

The 4C, Genesis, Lan Evo X, WRX STI, Mustang Gr. 3 cars, as well as the SLS AMG GT3 and V12 Vantage GT3 also have clear-colored headlights. The only ones left out with yellow headlights are the Nissan #123 Schulze Motorsport (N24) GT-R NISMO GT3 and the BMW #101 Walkenhorst Motorsport M6 GT3.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I just brought up this in another thread, but irl, the yellow tint on the headlights are for endurance races (like the N24) while clear lights are sprint style. I wonder if you'll be able to switch back and forth in the final game?

Oh, I know, it's just an odd choice to make, especially after over a year. Perhaps it'll be user-selected, yeah.

The 4C, Genesis, Lan Evo X, WRX STI, Mustang Gr. 3 cars, as well as the SLS AMG GT3 and V12 Vantage GT3 also have clear-colored headlights. The only ones left out with yellow headlights are the Nissan #123 Schulze Motorsport (N24) GT-R NISMO GT3 and the BMW #101 Walkenhorst Motorsport M6 GT3.

Hmmm, so two cars that have actually done the N24 have kept the ambers? Interesting...

 

[sparkytooth]

I do wonder it that's a thing you can change because the WRX has changed the colour of it's headlights more than once, when the game debuted back in 2016 it had clear lights, then after gamescom and up to today it had yellow lights, then back to clear again as of now.

 

[RACECAR]

The 4C, Genesis, Lan Evo X, WRX STI, Mustang Gr. 3 cars, as well as the SLS AMG GT3 and V12 Vantage GT3 also have clear-colored headlights. The only ones left out with yellow headlights are the Nissan #123 Schulze Motorsport (N24) GT-R NISMO GT3 and the BMW #101 Walkenhorst Motorsport M6 GT3.

Does the WRT Audi R8 LMS or the HTP Motorsport Mercedes AMG GT3 still have theirs?

 

[snowgt]

Hmmm, so two cars that have actually done the N24 have kept the ambers? Interesting...

That's because at the N24 they ask the participants of the fast classes to fit the yellow lights, so the slower ones can recognise them better in the mirrors.

Both the Schulze GT-R and the Walkenhorst M6 are basically VLN/N24 cars, so they probably would always be running the lights that way.

 

[Rons2000]

Hello i am New to forum, i only signed up for GTS i been GT fan from GT5-GT6.my PS3 not reading disc so i haven't played any Racing game for while. I like to Gran Turismo sport....... they should atleast enabled Arcade mode to just feel for the car but i dont know how beta works this is my first beta game i have played

 

[Grandea GTR]

It may just be me, but has anyone noticed their car just randomly cut off on throttle during an online race? It has happened to me earlier and was bugging the crap outta me.