GT Academy National Finals - Venues, Dates, Drivers & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Sphinx
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Yes thats true, but there was no risk because damage was turned off, and it was just a matter of chance if they ended up in a bad spin or not.
They took enough risks calculated in order to get the best advantage. As there was no damage in effect in the game the logic is to drive extremely boldly, using contact to force overtakes and to distract and disorientate the opposition.
It was setup up as an arcade game with arcade driving rules. They took the best form of action in my opinion.
They took enough risks calculated in order to get the best advantage. As there was no damage in effect in the game the logic is to drive extremely boldly, using contact to force overtakes and to distract and disorientate the opposition.
It was setup up as an arcade game with arcade driving rules. They took the best form of action in my opinion.
- 978
- GTP_Ren-Tec
- Yuck > <
You can drive in such a mannor But you will loose any form of respect from this community. Why should a person win a comp that may result in them driving in a real race where bumping people like that would injure, damage or end other poeples race. I think your missing the whole points, its not just you won but how you win too.
racing for fun i dont, i might take some risks or at other times behave as if it was my own car on a track day.
but if i was in a competition i would fight a lot harder. Without the risking a penalty from the stewards.
The thing with GT5 is that its harder than real racing, when fighting close you dont have any peripheral vision to avoid last second contact, so more often than not a crash will happen, they are usually avoided in real racing, but in real racing its far more aggressive than the game, which is quite bizzare.
In real racing you do want to force the other cars to make mistakes and you do want to push them to the edge or onto the grass if they dont back off the power.
From the very start of professional racing this mentality is essential, starting off the grid on a standing start a driver might angle his car towards the pit wall, with the car on the inside just behind going faster about to overtake has to suddenly lock up the brakes to avoid hitting the wall because the other driver took his bit of track he needed. Of course in GT5 that car wouldnt brake he would just crash into the car or the wall and then send a ranting message after the race or complain on a forum.
What your left with is one driver that did well and one that didnt.
When it comes to the game you need a bit of self moderation, but in competition you give nobody any favours.
but if i was in a competition i would fight a lot harder. Without the risking a penalty from the stewards.
The thing with GT5 is that its harder than real racing, when fighting close you dont have any peripheral vision to avoid last second contact, so more often than not a crash will happen, they are usually avoided in real racing, but in real racing its far more aggressive than the game, which is quite bizzare.
In real racing you do want to force the other cars to make mistakes and you do want to push them to the edge or onto the grass if they dont back off the power.
From the very start of professional racing this mentality is essential, starting off the grid on a standing start a driver might angle his car towards the pit wall, with the car on the inside just behind going faster about to overtake has to suddenly lock up the brakes to avoid hitting the wall because the other driver took his bit of track he needed. Of course in GT5 that car wouldnt brake he would just crash into the car or the wall and then send a ranting message after the race or complain on a forum.
What your left with is one driver that did well and one that didnt.
When it comes to the game you need a bit of self moderation, but in competition you give nobody any favours.
GTP_rpm
Premium
- 1,181
- GTP_rpm
Some of you guys might be enlightened by the Formula Ford Festival in 2000 at Brands Hatch which, my brother was able to win. He wasn't the fastest, but he managed to defend for the entire race despite having suspension wishbones bent, the others fell off the circuit having all had a go at trying to punt him "as fairly as possible" off.
The point is, that there is racing nudges that go too far in one off races like the FF Festiaval, but then there are racing nudges that just arn't welcome. In tinned cars, rubbing paint is fine but punting so much so that cars fall off the circuit is disgusting and doesn't require skill - fact!
Albeit, one of the vids shown from the Spanish finals, shows a first lap pile up at turn 1...but it's not actually the punters fault. The lead guy hits the inside tyre wall and just happens to be hit after he does so.
The point is, that there is racing nudges that go too far in one off races like the FF Festiaval, but then there are racing nudges that just arn't welcome. In tinned cars, rubbing paint is fine but punting so much so that cars fall off the circuit is disgusting and doesn't require skill - fact!
Albeit, one of the vids shown from the Spanish finals, shows a first lap pile up at turn 1...but it's not actually the punters fault. The lead guy hits the inside tyre wall and just happens to be hit after he does so.
I'm not looking for any respect, why would i want it? i drive cars and talk about driving. people can think what they like.
I'm sorry but competition can be very tough indeed.
On track drivers are putting the lives at risk in order to win. Winning is the most important thing. If you need to take someone out you do it at a safer and slower part of the track, both of you might crash badly and die, but you take that risk to win the championship. That is the mind of Michael Schumacher, the greatest racing driver of many years, 7 times world champion.
Yes he is very fast and talented with extreme skills, but he also has the aggression which is needed to turn wins into championships.
btw. i'm just saying what i think is the way of competition. Personally i would rather race friends with no contact on a track day, and very enjoyable i would find it.
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Your interesting story actually highlights the need for aggressive racing, You say he wasn't the fastest, so there were faster cars behind him. But they couldnt overtake cleanly, so the track must have been difficult to overtake. They did the right thing in trying to take out your brother, it's just they all failed, your brother had a good race. All those cars that fell of the circuit had nothing to lose, probably.
It does depend on whether your racing for points or position.
In the case of academy finals, it was all about position. A professional driver in the academy would have put itching powder in the other guys seats to give him the advantage he required...
GTP_rpm
Premium
- 1,181
- GTP_rpm
Yep...FF Festival is very much a "winner takes all" kind of race.
But there is an art to punting discreetly. With only 4-5 racers in the GT Academy races, it's fairly easy to monitor the fairness of the players.
When it's a FFord race at Brands Indy with about 30 racers, it's very difficult!
I was subjected to a move in GT Academy, that I didn't complain about but if it was a normal GT race on Prologue I would have done. As I said to the guy at the time, there were no prizes for 2nd and it wasn't so bad it put me out the race - it's the nature of the competition.
There's no excuse for blind punting though. Whether it's GT Prologue, GT Academy or the FFord Festival!
But there is an art to punting discreetly. With only 4-5 racers in the GT Academy races, it's fairly easy to monitor the fairness of the players.
When it's a FFord race at Brands Indy with about 30 racers, it's very difficult!
I was subjected to a move in GT Academy, that I didn't complain about but if it was a normal GT race on Prologue I would have done. As I said to the guy at the time, there were no prizes for 2nd and it wasn't so bad it put me out the race - it's the nature of the competition.
There's no excuse for blind punting though. Whether it's GT Prologue, GT Academy or the FFord Festival!
- 472
- Holland
- GTP_CICO
Its funny how SETWAVE brings this up. I remember watching some Forza 2 competion footage. Wich was 2v2 and they would ram eachother of the track and this was really their tactic. But the crashes were really random and diffcult to predict so they trained for hours to perfect this and come out clean for them self.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66ktBh-Hbs
And very well done Racer_LP 👍
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66ktBh-Hbs
And very well done Racer_LP 👍
- 785
- meagainstyou GTP_MeAgainstYou PureGT_MAY
- 2,898
- London
- GTP_Synwraith
I have to tell you, what you have described was absolutely not the spirit in which our GT Academy National Final was conducted and certainly not the attitude condoned or encouraged by the organisers for the Silverstone section or beyond, however competitive it may get.
Taking into account what your personal opinion is about sharing a track with friends or respected opponents and racing clean, I still find it difficult to accept your comments about how entertaining and refreshing the Spanish National Final was. I've seen the alternative and I wish you had been there to see it too 👍
All the best
Maz
SETWAVE: I must say, almost everything you say is the greatest load of garbage I've ever read on GTP.
Well then you should be a Formula 1 driver. What a load of rubbish. Are you saying that they don't do this and should, or that they sometimes do this, and are good racers for it?
An "obvious" example? It's quite obscure to me. What a ridiculous statement. I've watched every Monaco GP since I've been around 8 years old, and I don't know what your talking about to be honest. Throw away 8 points (or 7 for 2010 I believe) to risk 10 points or nothing?
"The logic". What logic? Why do you say "the logic"? "Use contact to force overtakes" - Ok, so this can range from a little bump to a 'Siegmund'-style torpedo. If you pull the hand-brake and steer without braking for a hairpin, you should be able to hit the car in front in a way to send him 300m into the sand, and still yourself manage to make the turn. Logic suggests this is the best way. 👍
Firstly, I'm not sure are you talking about a movie, or some weird dream that you had. You're talking a load of nonsense. "Safer and slower part" - so how could they "crash badly and die" if it's safer and slower? "You take that risk..." - who takes that risk? What drivers take that risk? What are you talking about.
And if you're going to mention Schumacher, I'm a big fan for a long time, but the worst thing about him is his needless incidents which he was never going to get away with. Jerez 1997 - He deliberately crashed into a car to protect his lead, ended up in the sand, and was disqualified from the whole season. Yet you still think this is the thing to do?
"...you take that risk to win..." - You are referring to risking a fatal accident by crashing into an opponent. "That is the mindset of Michael Schumacher..." - How do you know? Did you talk to him? He's willing to crash into a car and die? What a load of crap. That is not his mindset. He is an aggressive driver (or probably "schoolgirl" compared to your level of "aggressive"); he pushes the rules to the limit, and a very hard racer. When he goes beyond the limit of rules, he gets found out, and his lack of sportsmanship disappoints me at those times (hopefully all in the past now). Yet I would rate him as the all-round greatest F1 driver ever, and my favourite.
A good way to finish off a crap opinion.
I don't mean to be offensive, but I haven't read this kind of stuff for quite a while on these forums.
EDIT: And if any of the GT Academy boys apply your mindset to the Silverstone cars and equipment, they will be thrown out of the competition like a flash.
Well then you should be a Formula 1 driver. What a load of rubbish. Are you saying that they don't do this and should, or that they sometimes do this, and are good racers for it?
An "obvious" example? It's quite obscure to me. What a ridiculous statement. I've watched every Monaco GP since I've been around 8 years old, and I don't know what your talking about to be honest. Throw away 8 points (or 7 for 2010 I believe) to risk 10 points or nothing?
"The logic". What logic? Why do you say "the logic"? "Use contact to force overtakes" - Ok, so this can range from a little bump to a 'Siegmund'-style torpedo. If you pull the hand-brake and steer without braking for a hairpin, you should be able to hit the car in front in a way to send him 300m into the sand, and still yourself manage to make the turn. Logic suggests this is the best way. 👍
Firstly, I'm not sure are you talking about a movie, or some weird dream that you had. You're talking a load of nonsense. "Safer and slower part" - so how could they "crash badly and die" if it's safer and slower? "You take that risk..." - who takes that risk? What drivers take that risk? What are you talking about.
And if you're going to mention Schumacher, I'm a big fan for a long time, but the worst thing about him is his needless incidents which he was never going to get away with. Jerez 1997 - He deliberately crashed into a car to protect his lead, ended up in the sand, and was disqualified from the whole season. Yet you still think this is the thing to do?
"...you take that risk to win..." - You are referring to risking a fatal accident by crashing into an opponent. "That is the mindset of Michael Schumacher..." - How do you know? Did you talk to him? He's willing to crash into a car and die? What a load of crap. That is not his mindset. He is an aggressive driver (or probably "schoolgirl" compared to your level of "aggressive"); he pushes the rules to the limit, and a very hard racer. When he goes beyond the limit of rules, he gets found out, and his lack of sportsmanship disappoints me at those times (hopefully all in the past now). Yet I would rate him as the all-round greatest F1 driver ever, and my favourite.
A good way to finish off a crap opinion.
I don't mean to be offensive, but I haven't read this kind of stuff for quite a while on these forums.
EDIT: And if any of the GT Academy boys apply your mindset to the Silverstone cars and equipment, they will be thrown out of the competition like a flash.
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- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Setwave...
Deinitely NOT neccessary to drive like a knob to win as was ably demonstrated by John and Alex at the UK finals... both of whom were super clean throughout.
Feel free to troll/play devils advocate if you like, but if you do actually adopt that approach when racing I think you'll quickly find you won't get anyone decent to race against once private rooms arrive with GT5... you'll soon become 'Billy no mates' and the only people you'll be racing against will be the morons in public rooms.
Deinitely NOT neccessary to drive like a knob to win as was ably demonstrated by John and Alex at the UK finals... both of whom were super clean throughout.
Feel free to troll/play devils advocate if you like, but if you do actually adopt that approach when racing I think you'll quickly find you won't get anyone decent to race against once private rooms arrive with GT5... you'll soon become 'Billy no mates' and the only people you'll be racing against will be the morons in public rooms.
Thats why i race without deliberate contact. It's fun.
I'm certainly not being a troll.
If i was being paid to do it though the other drivers have no choice but to race against me in a competition, and i would make sure they lost by whatever means i was able.
I would be the employable racing driver, the others would just be losers.
This is just discussion you understand...
I'm certainly not being a troll.
If i was being paid to do it though the other drivers have no choice but to race against me in a competition, and i would make sure they lost by whatever means i was able.
I would be the employable racing driver, the others would just be losers.
This is just discussion you understand...
- 4,498
- Limburg,Belgium
- (GTP_) dustdriver
After 3 races you would probably have the entire grid against you. If you're not dead or banned from the competition by then.
Cars aren't cheap either, I doubt your team would be willing to prepare a new car for every race.
If you use this driving technique, the only loser will be you.
Cars aren't cheap either, I doubt your team would be willing to prepare a new car for every race.
If you use this driving technique, the only loser will be you.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
I do understand it's 'just a discussion'.
But I don't think you understand what real racing is like...
In 'proper', 'professional' racing, you might get away with the occassional bit of accidental contact (or even what appears to be accidental but in reality is deliberate), but you're not going to get away with obvious deliberate contact or even frequent 'accidental' contact.
One, the race stewards are going to penalise you - maybe you get away with it once or twice, but soon enough you'll get a reputation and start getting time penalities. And if you continue you'll get DQ's and suspensions. Plus once you have the reputation you'll start getting penalties for stuff that isn't even your fault. I've seen this plenty of times even at club racing level, and you only need to read the race write ups in Motorsports News every now and again to see the outcomes for rough drivers.
Two, your team owner is going to get seriously pissed off at having to repair your car after every race... at every level of Motorsport below the top few teams in F1, racing teams operate with fairly strict budgets, and body work and suspension/steering components don't come cheap.
But I don't think you understand what real racing is like...
In 'proper', 'professional' racing, you might get away with the occassional bit of accidental contact (or even what appears to be accidental but in reality is deliberate), but you're not going to get away with obvious deliberate contact or even frequent 'accidental' contact.
One, the race stewards are going to penalise you - maybe you get away with it once or twice, but soon enough you'll get a reputation and start getting time penalities. And if you continue you'll get DQ's and suspensions. Plus once you have the reputation you'll start getting penalties for stuff that isn't even your fault. I've seen this plenty of times even at club racing level, and you only need to read the race write ups in Motorsports News every now and again to see the outcomes for rough drivers.
Two, your team owner is going to get seriously pissed off at having to repair your car after every race... at every level of Motorsport below the top few teams in F1, racing teams operate with fairly strict budgets, and body work and suspension/steering components don't come cheap.
I'm not saying drivers should endanger their cars which might prevent a good race result, but do so if it can make the result better than if you didnt. It's very simple. All racing drivers do it in varying degrees of aggression.
That fact is in the academy GAME there was no damage so it was logical to shunt the other drivers off in a tactical manner.
In real life you would only shunt in a critical scenario, mostly you would just close the door and run cars wide etc. no contact.
I also think it's ridiculous to assume the spanish drivers will drive like that in real cars, they wont, i think their ability will surprise some.
That fact is in the academy GAME there was no damage so it was logical to shunt the other drivers off in a tactical manner.
In real life you would only shunt in a critical scenario, mostly you would just close the door and run cars wide etc. no contact.
I also think it's ridiculous to assume the spanish drivers will drive like that in real cars, they wont, i think their ability will surprise some.
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I think. (at least in other countries)
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
👍👍 Timo
Setwave.... the point of most of the comments in this thead is that drivers in a lot of the finals don't think the published rules were applied strictly enough or even at all in some case... if there were no rules, then so be it, but those were the rules we all received as part of our briefing pack and those are the rules that we expected all drivers to abide by or the stewards to enforce.
Setwave.... the point of most of the comments in this thead is that drivers in a lot of the finals don't think the published rules were applied strictly enough or even at all in some case... if there were no rules, then so be it, but those were the rules we all received as part of our briefing pack and those are the rules that we expected all drivers to abide by or the stewards to enforce.
- 18
- IRT_SolarSystem
Congratulations to Racer_LP for getting the Belgium win! Dont know you personally but still... Good luck at Silverstone where you wont see me but my brother...
But how can it be that the Belgium Final has the same crap we got to deal with here in Holland? My god, they should have heared and watched what happened here and at least get some internet to get the demo running! Dont tell me that there was no internet! If its the case then its even a bigger FAIL than our finals here... I think its a lie anyway but if the organization says it so well you have to believe it right?
Anyway, I want opinions from people here... Is the final of Holland and Belgium actually fair against the other countries? I think there are many people in other countries who had more chance and luck if it was a Time Trail... Its a complete other skill and my opinion is still that our finals should not have counted for the big prize, or organize a different date and actually get the GT5 demo! But now, I think our finals arent elegible but that wont make any difference of course... The 2 winners deserve it but compared to other countries its absolutely NOT fair...
Grtz Eric
EDIT: And about the rules that people are talking about here. Do you guys really believe they looked closely to the rules? Of course not, it was a good show and thats the whole meaning of the GT Academy. If there comes a good driver out of it (which Lucas Ordonez certainly is!) its another positive thing on the show of course. They maybe lived to the rules a little bit but not because the rules are written like that, some things were common sense to deal with. Actually if you look to our final here, there were no rules! Because they changed the whole format and doing a Time Trail where even the ghost was allowed (people were driving with my ghost, can you imagine that how unfair?)! But it was a good show...
But how can it be that the Belgium Final has the same crap we got to deal with here in Holland? My god, they should have heared and watched what happened here and at least get some internet to get the demo running! Dont tell me that there was no internet! If its the case then its even a bigger FAIL than our finals here... I think its a lie anyway but if the organization says it so well you have to believe it right?
Anyway, I want opinions from people here... Is the final of Holland and Belgium actually fair against the other countries? I think there are many people in other countries who had more chance and luck if it was a Time Trail... Its a complete other skill and my opinion is still that our finals should not have counted for the big prize, or organize a different date and actually get the GT5 demo! But now, I think our finals arent elegible but that wont make any difference of course... The 2 winners deserve it but compared to other countries its absolutely NOT fair...
Grtz Eric
EDIT: And about the rules that people are talking about here. Do you guys really believe they looked closely to the rules? Of course not, it was a good show and thats the whole meaning of the GT Academy. If there comes a good driver out of it (which Lucas Ordonez certainly is!) its another positive thing on the show of course. They maybe lived to the rules a little bit but not because the rules are written like that, some things were common sense to deal with. Actually if you look to our final here, there were no rules! Because they changed the whole format and doing a Time Trail where even the ghost was allowed (people were driving with my ghost, can you imagine that how unfair?)! But it was a good show...
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- 2,898
- London
- GTP_Synwraith
Eric,
The fact that the GT5 demo build for the final was so much fun and thoroughly enjoyed by all is the biggest shame for you guys. Nothing has really compared to the feel of RACING at Indy or even High Speed Fail amongst friends and fellow competitors with the excellent new physics.
All the best for your operation mate, I'm sure you'll be back for sure next year at Silverstone
All the best
Maz
The fact that the GT5 demo build for the final was so much fun and thoroughly enjoyed by all is the biggest shame for you guys. Nothing has really compared to the feel of RACING at Indy or even High Speed Fail amongst friends and fellow competitors with the excellent new physics.
All the best for your operation mate, I'm sure you'll be back for sure next year at Silverstone
All the best
Maz
Manuelos
Premium
- 1,227
- Belgium
- GTP_Manuelos
I heard that they had 'a problem' with the internet connection
Did I mentioned the fact that some guy had the chance to do his 5 laps + 3 more 'bonus' laps because of a mistake from the organisation
- 1,212
- GTRP_RudiRaser / GTP_RudiRaser
Well done, Racer_LP. 👍 👍
Manuelos
Premium
- 1,227
- Belgium
- GTP_Manuelos
Some pictures from the Belgian final, from gt5rs.com:
http://www.gt5rs.com/gt-academy-f51/photos-de-la-finale-a-spa-t1234.html
http://www.gt5rs.com/gt-academy-f51/photos-de-la-finale-a-spa-t1234.html
