GT Racing - GT1, GT3, Blancpain Endurance Series & National GT SeriesSports Cars
- Thread starter Speedster502
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- 7,115
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
I paused the video of the crash to try and see if there was any splitter damage which caused the nose to take off but it looks like just the usual wear you would expect, although there is slightly more on the drivers right. I think the Porsche is too far behind to have just been overtaken, it looks like they were both on the same line too.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Not sure you can really blame the spectators when there is a damn flying race car, this could have easily killed Jann or other drivers.
- 38,948
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Don't be a knob. It's never a driver's fault if a spectator dies. That's bad course design and a failure of safety considerations. The drivers race on the assumption that the circuit is safe. Do you think anyone would race if the spectators could have a picnic on the rumble strips?
I suppose with the flat bend in your rhetorical question, you may think that Ayrton Senna killed himself?
- 259
- Singapore
- Jayson619
Crap.....
This is a really sad month. An airliner crash with no survivors. Singapore’s founding father passed away and now this….
My prayers are with the deceased.
It’s not Jann’s fault that this happened and no one should blame him for it; not even to himself. Accidents happened at the Nurburgring be it as a public road or an official race event.
The Flugplatz has the tendency to give cars ‘wings’ and it cannot be avoided and the crash that followed after was beyond control.
GTRacer22 suggested a 'shaving' of the Flugplatz but I doubt they’ll do that. At most FIA ought to make some changes to the car regulations; maybe forcing them to increase downforce so that it ‘sticks’ to the road.
This is a really sad month. An airliner crash with no survivors. Singapore’s founding father passed away and now this….
My prayers are with the deceased.
It’s not Jann’s fault that this happened and no one should blame him for it; not even to himself. Accidents happened at the Nurburgring be it as a public road or an official race event.
The Flugplatz has the tendency to give cars ‘wings’ and it cannot be avoided and the crash that followed after was beyond control.
GTRacer22 suggested a 'shaving' of the Flugplatz but I doubt they’ll do that. At most FIA ought to make some changes to the car regulations; maybe forcing them to increase downforce so that it ‘sticks’ to the road.
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- 6,146
- Germany
Blaming the course design for it, is a little harsh as well. You should rather blame the cars design/setup for the crash. I don't know of anything similar that has happened at Flugplatz, not to mention that it's notorious that cars get air there. And considering the pictures posted, especially the GT-R had the tendency to get a little too much air. Neither the Z4, 650S, SLS, 458 or the R8 get quite as much air.
In terms of saftey: It would've been a lot worse before 2006 and would've resulted in many more casualties, because before that, there weren't any safety fences.
@Jayson619: I don't think, that it's allowed to post the video here.
In terms of saftey: It would've been a lot worse before 2006 and would've resulted in many more casualties, because before that, there weren't any safety fences.
@Jayson619: I don't think, that it's allowed to post the video here.
- 3,142
- Wise, VA
- Panoz-38
Sadly this event was coming at some point.
The lack of runoff at Flugplatz is a bad mix for the current-spec GT3 cars and the SLS crash above shows the tire barriers seems to launch cars at speed toward the fence. Sadly for Jann's case, he was a passenger when the GT-R took off.
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
When watching the footage you see a tyre crash barrier - a taller fence then a smaller fence with barbed wire running across the top - its not the fact that the circuit is an old design more that none or the least (equalling cheapest) thought has been given to spectator safety to bring it up to date.
- 6,146
- Germany
@Omnis: The safety fences were installed in 2006/2007 and meet the FIA regulations. There's only so much you can do. And the runoff area cannot and definitely will not be increased, no such discussions have ever occured nor will they. The only thing I could see happening is an alteration of the tyre wall.
A lot of people have already died on this track, on various parts of the track, but NEVER was it discussed to alter the layout of the track. The cars are getting faster and faster, but again I think it's the driver responseability to not "overdrive" it. Obviously in the case of Jann's crash, he couldn't really do a whole lot.
A lot of people have already died on this track, on various parts of the track, but NEVER was it discussed to alter the layout of the track. The cars are getting faster and faster, but again I think it's the driver responseability to not "overdrive" it. Obviously in the case of Jann's crash, he couldn't really do a whole lot.
- 38,948
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Yeah, y'know, after watching a couple crashes there, it does seem like the tires do more harm than good. Go to youtube and watch any Flugplatz crash. The cars almost always wind up on their roofs. I think the tires have too much rebound. They absorb the crash energy and then dump it all back into vaulting the cars over. Not good.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
They should consider bulldozing that section out (behind the guardrail) and moving the guardrail back a ways and making a sand trap.
- 38,948
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
You can't tell me that they couldn't get some earthworks equipment out there, dig out another couple hundred feet from that embankment, and make a proper runoff area for one of the worst high-speed crash areas on the track. Pay for it with a toll hike. I'd rather pay an extra hundred euros per go around than have to write off my race car after it kills someone.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,599
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
No. They should just stop people spectating from what is the natural place for a car to end up in if it all goes wrong.
Having said that, good luck stopping people from going there if they set their minds on it.
Having said that, good luck stopping people from going there if they set their minds on it.
- 259
- Singapore
- Jayson619
Can't imagine how high and far a Formula 1 car will travel if the 20km+ Nurburgring is still in used....
The last F1 race held for that version of the Nurburgring was in 1976 and won by James Hunt. Also noted for that near-fatal accident that almost killed Niki Lauda, who crashed before the Bergwerk right hand curve after his 312T2 snapped to the right and spun through the fencing into an earth bank. The car bounced back onto the track, enveloped in flames.
The last F1 race held for that version of the Nurburgring was in 1976 and won by James Hunt. Also noted for that near-fatal accident that almost killed Niki Lauda, who crashed before the Bergwerk right hand curve after his 312T2 snapped to the right and spun through the fencing into an earth bank. The car bounced back onto the track, enveloped in flames.
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- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
That's a solution too...but a larger runoff would keep the cars from getting in such terrifying situations and a sand trap would slow them down - AS WELL AS keep potential onlookers from getting hurt and worse.
- 6,146
- Germany
That's the only (reasonable) solution.
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
Why is modifying track with a run off area and a safer spectator area not a reasonable solution?
Tired Tyres
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- 12,599
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Sand traps hit at that kind of speed don't tend to slow cars down which is why so many tracks are polluted by run off tarmac. As for runoff. Mountains mate. the Eifel Mountains. I very much doubt that it would be economically viable.
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- 38,948
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
So you're the CFO now? In case you haven't noticed, there is no drop-off on the outside of flugplatz. All they would need to do is drive a shovel and a bulldozer down the road and dig out the side of that hill to create more runoff. They could pave it or at least put enough space to add a secondary tire/foam barrier.
Tidgney
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- 3,126
- Southport
- LZR_Tidgney
Isn't it more about slowing the cars down upto that point? I know in rallying and also at Slovakia was it? (Can't quite remember) a chicane was added to slow the cars down perhaps that would be the better solution? Chicane at the bottom before the rise upto the top? Adds an added incentive to get the chicane right for a better climb up the hill?
I had a look at a video from 2013 which shows a fair few GT3 cars getting full lift of the front wheels.
It's a terrible accident though, motorsport is dangerous whether a driver or spectator.
I had a look at a video from 2013 which shows a fair few GT3 cars getting full lift of the front wheels.
It's a terrible accident though, motorsport is dangerous whether a driver or spectator.
- 6,146
- Germany
Because the track is known for it "nature" origin. It's not a "planned" race track like most of F1 courses. You also have large national parks with some very rare animals, some of which only live in the Eifel, very close to the track. Increasing the run off area or altering the track layout would not only cost a lot of money, which the new investor and the Nürburgring GmbH does not really have nor want to spend, and it would also mean potentially destroying forests to either make the track wider or add a run off area. It's a very fine balance, which makes it close to impossible, but also makes up the charme of the track.
The whole nature aspect is also the reason, why there is a jump in the first place. Adding higher fences or closing down the spectator area at this corner are the only, relatively cheap options to improve safety and prevent such accidents with human casualties, which were (until today) none at Flugplatz/Quiddelbacher Höhe. Other areas of the track have many more casualties to report, especially turns like Wippermann, Brünnchen and Eiskurve.
Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
As apposed to stopping people standing there? Which strategy do you think is cheaper for the people who will be paying for it?
The real problem here is that GT3 cars are too fast for this track. In qualifying for last years N24 it was noted that the pole setting car went around the 'Ring in 6:30. That's as fast as any Group C car not driven by Stefan Bellof.
