chromatic9
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- chromatic9
GT5 Latest News & Discussion
- Thread starter gamelle71
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- England, Warwickshire
- GTP_Sigma
The video is not a great argument to justify the slipstream affect. The slip stream affect increases with the square of the speed, as such, the slipstream effect is at its strongest at f1 racing speeds. Few cars in prologue can attain these sort of speeds on the straights. This is important, because watching the video, Sato on starts to gain additional acceleration from the slipstream only at well above 100mph and even then, it does not make him significantly faster.
The second (and greater) factor that is even more noticeable, it's the extreme aerodynamics of an F1 car, designed primarily for downforce, they produce a massive amount of drag, often with a Co-efficient of around 1. This means an F1 car produces 3 to 4 times as much drag as your average road car. If that wasn't enough, the rear wings produce a massive wake, much greater than that of a road car, making the slip stream more powerful. So, while the car in front is fighting with huge amounts of drag, the car behind is getting an incredibly powerful draft, far more powerful than in any other form of motorsport. With such a strong slipstream affect, you would expect then, that Sato would waltz past with an extra 20mph on Alonso. The truth is though, slipstreaming is a very subtle affect, which is barely noticeable in the majority of motorsports, yet in Gran Turismo, it's the most powerful passing tool there is, often worth in excess of 20 mph whilst racing saloon cars.
I don't know why Gran Turismo's slipstream affect is configured to be so powerful (unrealistically so). I can only assume it's to help promote close racing and lots of overtaking.
You make a good point, but you're off slightly. While the difference in velocity is 20mph, you can't simply square that difference to see the difference in drag force. Let's set 1/2p * Dc * A as a constant, 1. Then if car 1's velocity relative to the air is 70mph, its drag force (in random, arbitrary units) is 70^2, or 4900. Car 2's drag is 50^2, or 2500. Thus, car 1 has about 96% more drag force, or a factor of 1.96.
Again, your point is quite valid. The relative velocity of car 1 is only 40% more, but the drag is 96% more.
Hopefully this makes sense... I've been drinking tonight.
- 996
- Texas
- GTP_Rees
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- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
Just like many of the other great cars in the past, namely the Sauber C9 Mercedes.
I am glad to see it is not initially accessible, and there will be at least a modicum of challenge to unlock it. Lets just hope for most peoples sake that its not the prize for getting all gold licences, otherwise that will cheese quite a lot of people off.
Unless you pre-order from gamestop, then you get it from the start.
I was also thinking it'll be unlocked for completing a certain % of the game or like you said ALL GOLDs which would piss tons of people off.
- 996
- Texas
- GTP_Rees
- 8,017
- GTP_Royalton
The Strongest example of using the draft in a racing situation
240mph+ openwheel cars on an oval using the 'handford' device on the rear wing that increased the drag of the cars even further.
With these extreme circumstances the draft finally resembles what we see in Gran Turismo with even production based cars
240mph+ openwheel cars on an oval using the 'handford' device on the rear wing that increased the drag of the cars even further.
With these extreme circumstances the draft finally resembles what we see in Gran Turismo with even production based cars
- 1,678
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- TheDrummingKING
Yes that was what I was saying.
That is the main reason I had meant, (although there can be others but I can't think of any at the moment) because if you are racing in pitch black lighting on...say the nurburgring, and you spin out, you definately need the reverse lights in order to see what is behind you and where you are going when you reverse.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
- 221
- GTP_Vincent; Verad
- Verad
Regarding the slipstream discussion, I have a few questions. In any motorsport where drafting has a significant effect, isn't there a fair amount of additional strategy that needs to be considered? As mentioned in the post I have quoted below, it is not always best to be in first place during a given time and place. Could this explain why drivers don't always take advantage of any ability to pass using a draft? Furthermore, to what degree is it advantageous to remain in another driver's draft for an extended period of time? How does doing so affect fuel consumption and tire wear, if at all? Finally, in NASCAR, how does the use of restrictor plates reduce the ability of drivers to take advantage of a draft in passing, if at all?
Unrelated to that discussion, how realistic was fuel consumption in GT4?
[Edit]I'm not out to try to prove or disprove anyone's reasoning, I really am curious about this.
[Edit]It has taken me almost six years, but I've finally made 200 posts, w00t.
Unrelated to that discussion, how realistic was fuel consumption in GT4?
[Edit]I'm not out to try to prove or disprove anyone's reasoning, I really am curious about this.
[Edit]It has taken me almost six years, but I've finally made 200 posts, w00t.
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- RedSuinit
Nice, congrats on the 200th post! Even if it was a long time coming. 👍
You do raise some valid questions on the subject, I know it can help significantly with furl consumption, but I don't know about tire wear. Interesting question. I am actually trying to collect as much information on the subject as I can, but I am finding it difficult to find any real information or studies that have been done in relation to this subject. (As in drafting in motorsport) As for the fuel consumption in GT4, I don't know. But I would be willing to bet that if we went through the GT4 Forums that someone probably did an expirement on that. As a matter of fact, search function here I come!
- 221
- GTP_Vincent; Verad
- Verad
After some more digging, I can't find any rigorous test of the accuracy of fuel consumption, but according to this post, it is simulated to a certain degree, and thus will change according to how you drive the car. It seems that the lack of any real units of fuel in GT4 make it complicated to test how accurate the simulation is.
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- 8,017
- GTP_Royalton
Vincent
Staying in the draft only helps fuel mileage. The adverse effect is overheating your engine by drafting too close and blocking air to your radiator.
Vincent
Restrictor plates actually enhance the potency of the draft. When the plate knocks the HP down from 850 to 450 it makes the cars more dependent on aero and not horsepower. A pack of 450 HP cars that have maxed out at 200 mph draft better at 200 mph then a 850HP car which has a max speed of 230 mph+
Reason why non restricted cars dont draft as well is because they're always accelerating at a decent pace and never really top out. Also the primitive aero makes them more slippery and less draggy therefore less draftable
Vincent
It wasnt 100% accurate but close. I estimate it at abot 10% off. Every car had a 80 liter tank which hurt realism. Tires on the other hand was extremely off in both performance balance between the compounds and wear
*Based off of a test I did years ago at lemans in GT4 and my knowledge of real life lemans tire and fuel numbers
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- 221
- GTP_Vincent; Verad
- Verad
Good to know, thanks for the response.
So it was determined that all cars were given an 80 liter tank after all? My previous reading on this matter was indeterminate; people weren't sure if the fuel tank measurements were an abstraction or not. I hope this detail is not overlooked in GT5.
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- GTP_Royalton
Vincent
I thought it was settled that the 80 units meant 80 liters? Doesnt seem like PD to give each car 80 units of fuel which measurement doesnt exist in the real world.
Besides the real problem is PD's balance of tire compounds, tire wear and pit stop lengths. In GT4 there was never any sense in running a harder tire compound because the softs even just one level softer tire was too much faster and the way too fast pit stops negated any reason to run a harder tire for good.
GT4's Lemans pit stops were over 2x faster then real life. It let you refuel while changing tires which has been illegal at Lemans for ages. Also only 2 mechanics can change the tires whereas in GT4 there is F1 level of mechanics servicing the cars. GT4 basically uses F1 style stops for every series in the game
Im glad they modeled realistic NASCAR stops
- 2,948
- Austria
- GTP_SnowCrash
If you're following another car closely, tires are affected the more your car relies on aerodynamical downforce. Since the leading car takes away some of your downforce, you will get understeer in corners the closer you get to the leading car. This will result in increased tire degradation on your front tires.
Simply put, being in another car's slipstream helps your straight line speed, but makes it harder to corner.
- 221
- GTP_Vincent; Verad
- Verad
If the 'units' were indeed an abstraction, then it would be essentially the same as a fuel gauge in any car. For example, my car's fuel gauge has sixteen tick marks. Each tick mark measures a relative amount of fuel given the size of my gas tank, but another car, using the same number of ticks with a different size tank, would have ticks that measured a different absolute amount of fuel. None of the cars I've driven have a gauge that explicitly tells you how much fuel you have remaining in absolute terms, unless you know the size of the tank, and thus, the conversion. If the units used in GT4 were nothing more than a relative capacity of a given car's tank, then it would be very much true to life, except that all cars do not necessarily subdivide their gauges the same way.
So, theory one is that each car was given an 80 liter tank in GT4. Theory two is that a simplified, unit-less gauge was adopted, similar to the gauges I've described, which only measure the relative remaining fuel in a given tank, and each car had the correct tank size.
This doesn't mean that you're incorrect, as I may have not found the appropriate thread, if this has already been determined. So far, however, I haven't been able to find anyone who has tested fuel consumption in an attempt to figure out if cars that would not normally do indeed have 80 liter tanks.
Regarding your testing at Le Mans, did the car(s) that you tested have an 80 liter tank in reality? If it did not, then that should disprove the second theory, since you assumed that all cars in GT4 have 80 liter tanks for your test, if I understand you correctly.
I agree with you on the tire wear, tire compounds, and pit stops. I hope these have all received due attention.
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- ProSTREEET & Riskshocker
hey, i wanted to ask if some is interested in a thread like "100 days till GT5-How will you prepare for this game?" It should be a thread were everyone can talk about his personal countdown and his old stories from gt4 and what you did before the game comes out.
And i wanted to know if someone with a good english knowledge can open the thread for me. ;D thx
And i wanted to know if someone with a good english knowledge can open the thread for me. ;D thx
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