GT5 Sound Thread

[HKS racer]

But what does that have to do with the sound? Sound which, for a long time, was the frontrunner in realism? In some ways, it still is.

If it’s not a sim you can have the best sound ever but with the wrong environment you can’t really appeal sim racing fans. Go sell PGR4 as a GT5 competitor if you can. I don’t think you are that dumb it’s more like you are desperately trying to prove a point.

PD HAVE TO record it for themselves (or pay for them)

PD (like all the others sane companies do) can always look for quality camera cars and quality audio clips from motorsport insiders. Do you really think SimBin (not a team of modders) go out and record all the cars around the world? They have contacts with racing teams dude, that’s where their data came from. Then once they got this stuff they clean it, cut it, modify it and enhance it the best way they can. If a relatively small company like SimBin has access to this stuff do you think PD can’t afford it? No, it’s just their mentality, they think there’s only one way to do things and that’s their problem.

I'd like to see PD persevere (and hopefully eventually "succeed") with their ideal of sonic customisation, rather than fall back to "some cars can be changed, some can't", or "cars sound the same no matter what you do to them" just for practicality's sake.

I don’t know if you recognized but the actual sonic customization gets screwed everytime you add a bloody fully customizable gearbox… actually I’m forced to keep original gearbox because I don’t want all my tuned cars to sound all the same. So their “ideal of sonic customization” is quite a fail at the moment.

 

[Jav]

A bloody team of modders can get their material from wherever they like; they're not charging for it. PD have to record it for themselves (or pay for them); they might not have recorded all parts of the car that they should have, which would explain the lack of intake (and hence, the lack of "meat" another poster mentioned).

No need for them to go all over the world to record sounds, they already paid lisencing fees to use the content, how they implement that content is up to them. They could use the same resources moders use instead of recording every car(wich I highly doubt they do). Evidently their method is a faliure, time to recognize it move on and use what the best teams use.

 

[Griffith500]

Everyone thinks they have great ideas (no offence intended to anyone). The important bit is being able to execute / implement them.

Absolutely.

I don't think anyone working in the industry is truly incapable of implementing the new stuff we will appreciate; we just need to convince the directors that it's worthwhile.

EDIT:

If it’s not a sim you can have the best sound ever but with the wrong environment you can’t really appeal sim racing fans. Go sell PGR4 as a GT5 competitor if you can. I don’t think you are that dumb it’s more like you are desperately trying to prove a point.
PD (like all the others sane companies do) can always look for quality camera cars and quality audio clips from motorsport insiders. Do you really think SimBin (not a team of modders) go out and record all the cars around the world? They have contacts with racing teams dude, that’s where their data came from. Then once they got this stuff they clean it, cut it, modify it and enhance it the best way they can. If a relatively small company like SimBin has access to this stuff do you think PD can’t afford it? No, it’s just their mentality, they think there’s only one way to do things and that’s their problem.

I don’t know if you recognized but the actual sonic customization gets screwed everytime you add a bloody fully customizable gearbox… actually I’m forced to keep original gearbox because I don’t want all my tuned cars to sound all the same. So their “ideal of sonic customization” is quite a fail at the moment.

I expect there's a conflict of language somewhere, but I fail to see why my comparing the audio of PGR4 (by your own admission an arcade game, not worthy of comparison to GT5) to GTR3 is "desperately trying to prove a point". The point is GTR3's sound so far isn't anything new, irrespective of the realism of the mechanics of a specific kind of in-game interaction. If your point is that sim games only focus on the physics, and everything else is secondary, fine. But that doesn't really apply to GT5, does it?

Trust me, if you want to make your own sounds, you want to make your own recordings. It's always better that way; game developers have teams of audio artists, engineers and designers who are specialised in the art of capturing and reproducing audio. A racing outfit is not; it's not just a case of putting a camera in a car, if it were, we could all do it.

Yes, I have noticed that modifying cars can ruin the sound. I noticed it in GT2, where a habit was instilled in me to try all four exhausts before settling on the one I like best. I want PD to persevere down this route and expand upon it if they can; I want them to succeed at it, it's the right thing to do. EDIT: I misread. I don't have a problem with the gearbox (even though I hate the sound, even in real life). Maybe you should check your settings.

In the mean time, there's always the stock sounds, good or bad.

 

[Jav]

In the mean time, there's always the stock sounds, good or bad.

Problem with stock sounds is that they are stupidly muted, you can't really apreciate them. They need a bit more volume.

 

[RACECAR]

I wish! Trouble is, I'm no artist, nor a programmer; I can script OK, though, so that sort of limits my usefulness to an existing team. If they need an extra pair of hands to carry recording equipment, or someone to sit in a corner and shout words of encouragement, though, I can do that too!

I honestly believe you'd make a great consultant for the sound department. I would like to, but I think they'd be more willing to hear from someone thats seemingly more knowledgeable in this then someone who's only going off what he hears.

Off-topic: I recently got into PC flight Sims and noticed that they appear to have the opposite problem. They have the engine noise, but don't appear to quite nail the sound effects of the air around the aircraft changing as it passes relative to the view its seen.

 

[Griffith500]

No need for them to go all over the world to record sounds, they already paid lisencing fees to use the content, how they implement that content is up to them. They could use the same resources moders use instead of recording every car(wich I highly doubt they do). Evidently their method is a faliure, time to recognize it move on and use what the best teams use.

The best teams don't use YouTube videos. The best teams go to the cars and record them in-situ with their own methods and equipment, which are already suited to their requirements for further processing. Every manufacturer will do things differently which will create a bit of a headache for the artists.
The problem PD have, I think, is because they failed to recognise the importance of intake, and so didn't record it (properly). That means going back and re-recording everything. It also means waiting.

Problem with stock sounds is that they are stupidly muted, you can't really apreciate them. They need a bit more volume.

Yeah, they are. I'd like the option to separate the sounds from the upgrades. As soon as you buy a non-stock exhaust (or whatever), all the sounds should be selectable (including stock); only you'll get a louder exhaust and the performance benefit. So: stock is stock; non stock is any sound selectable from the "list", but the "grade" of the part determines volume, as it currently does.

Not very realistic, perhaps, but it might suit more people that way. I know you could just take the silencer off a car to make it louder, but it'd also sound different, and is a dubious performance enhancement. Also, some cars might sound a bit silly very loud, given some have quiet exhausts dominated by flow noise, but it's something to try at least.

 

[Jav]

The best teams don't use YouTube videos. The best teams go to the cars and record them in-situ with their own methods and equipment, which are already suited to their requirements for further processing. Every manufacturer will do things differently which will create a bit of a headache for the artists.
The problem PD have, I think, is because they failed to recognise the importance of intake, and so didn't record it (properly). That means going back and re-recording everything. It also means waiting.

Problem is they are not even close to be mentioned within the top teams, and the amateurs are beating them with Youtube samples! I have no problem with waiting, but God haven't we waited long enough for GT5?? They need to recognize they suck and they need to recognize they need real car people in this department and not some guy with an engeneering degree calling the shots. If their method is not working, guess what plan B time, even if it means getting samples from Youtube wich clearly is a thousand times better than what they have!
I understand the infinite possibilities of sound processing and all that magic stuff you talk about, but it's just not working.

Yeah, they are. I'd like the option to separate the sounds from the upgrades. As soon as you buy a non-stock exhaust (or whatever), all the sounds should be selectable (including stock); only you'll get a louder exhaust and the performance benefit. So: stock is stock; non stock is any sound selectable from the "list", but the "grade" of the part determines volume, as it currently does.

Not very realistic, perhaps, but it might suit more people that way. I know you could just take the silencer off a car to make it louder, but it'd also sound different, and is a dubious performance enhancement. Also, some cars might sound a bit silly very loud, given some have quiet exhausts dominated by flow noise, but it's something to try at least.

I've had the privilege of driving and riding a good variety of cars on track in every state of tune from all out track only Hondas to High end cars like a 360 Challenge Stradale(passanger ride on this baby) and everything in between. With a helmet on and guess what, you can still hear the exhaust very loud and clear in the cabin, granted some cars like most Porches are more muted from the factory but any hyper car and most super cars are pretty loud with a stock exhaust.

 

[Griffith500]

Problem is they are not even close to be mentioned within the top teams, and the amateurs are beating them with Youtube samples! I have no problem with waiting, but God haven't we waited long enough for GT5?? They need to recognize they suck and they need to recognize they need real car people in this department and not some guy with an engeneering degree calling the shots. If their method is not working, guess what plan B time, even if it means getting samples from Youtube wich clearly is a thousand times better than what they have!
I understand the infinite possibilities of sound processing and all that magic stuff you talk about, but it's just not working.

I don't know that any team has produced sounds for quite so many cars as there are in GT5; even excluding repeats of every kind. It's quality vs. quantity. You want both, you're going to have to wait longer. Yes, they made a mistake in not recording intake; yes they made a mistake in allowing the cars sounds to change, but not having enough material to fill the gaps. But they deserve respect for doing some things better than everyone else, and for trying to push the limits of what's possible. Everybody makes mistakes; if you want perfection, you'll need to wait for an eternity.

And I suppose you think you're the one to call the shots, are you? I have an engineering degree, so I'm out, for sure. The "magic" I'm talking about is mere potential, it's not in any racing game. It's still far more "now" than re-recording 1000 (4000?) cars, though.

I've had the privilege of driving and riding a good variety of cars on track in every state of tune from all out track only Hondas to High end cars like a 360 Challenge Stradale(passanger ride on this baby) and everything in between. With a helmet on and guess what, you can still hear the exhaust very loud and clear in the cabin, granted some cars like most Porches are more muted from the factory but any hyper car and most super cars are pretty loud with a stock exhaust.

Preaching to the converted.

 

[Jav]

And I suppose you think you're the one to call the shots, are you? I have an engineering degree, so I'm out, for sure. The "magic" I'm talking about is mere potential, it's not in any racing game. It's still far more "now" than re-recording 1000 (4000?) cars, though.

You, know. I actually think you'd be ideal for the job I seriously do, you obviously are a passionate car person with a lot of knowledge and the qualifications. We may not agree on some things but you definitely know what you are talking about.

 

[UnionStrike]

This could be solved by... outsourcing, something seemingly alien to Kaz and PD.

 

[HKS racer]

I expect there's a conflict of language somewhere, but I fail to see why my comparing the audio of PGR4 (by your own admission an arcade game, not worthy of comparison to GT5) to GTR3 is "desperately trying to prove a point". The point is GTR3's sound so far isn't anything new, irrespective of the realism of the mechanics of a specific kind of in-game interaction. If your point is that sim games only focus on the physics, and everything else is secondary, fine. But that doesn't really apply to GT5, does it?

No, the point is: GTR3 (a simulator) could outclass GT5 (another simulator) on the sound/immersion department. What other devs did on other arcade games is totally useless to me unfortunately. Unlless someone sample it and adapt it for GTR2/rFactor.

Trust me, if you want to make your own sounds, you want to make your own recordings. It's always better that way;

I respectfully disagree, SimBin model seems to be more flexible, faster and could lead them to an overall (much) better result.

game developers have teams of audio artists, engineers and designers who are specialised in the art of capturing and reproducing audio. A racing outfit is not; it's not just a case of putting a camera in a car, if it were, we could all do it.

Audio artists have to understand the most important thing is not HOW you make things is the results you get. Go out and sample all the cars with preper hardware seems "very very cool and uber professional" in theory but at the end of the day it's all about the final result. So they should worry about how to make good use of these samples, not only how to record them.. and eventually before the next glacial age.

Yes, I have noticed that modifying cars can ruin the sound. I noticed it in GT2, where a habit was instilled in me to try all four exhausts before settling on the one I like best. I want PD to persevere down this route and expand upon it if they can; I want them to succeed at it, it's the right thing to do. EDIT: I misread. I don't have a problem with the gearbox (even though I hate the sound, even in real life). Maybe you should check your settings.

I'm not 100% sure the gearbox IS the problem but when I add it somehow happens it overlay the car sound with a "generic race car sound" a sort of pitched screamer (I'm talking about dashboard view). For instance the same sound of the Mazda Furai.

In the mean time, there's always the stock sounds, good or bad.

Yes but if they solve it would be better.

 

[Crowood]

That what i call "the sound of a ferrari"

 

[Furinkazen]

People talk about GTR3 and PC... can I point out that PC's can have endless capabilities? You can update and change files on a PC much easier than a PS3 with a set amount of memory.

I have NASCAR Racing 2003 Season and around 18gigabytes of extra files and mods, and quite a few sound packs. As the PC is a lot easier to work with such modifications such as sound are easy to do, due to the increased memory.

 

[G.T.Ace]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The memory isn't that important, GT5 already has fantastic effects (echo, doppler etc.) and a great sorround sound, the samples themself are just horrible most of the time. The modability of a game is also irrelevant.

 

[Rudenut]

People talk about GTR3 and PC... can I point out that PC's can have endless capabilities? You can update and change files on a PC much easier than a PS3 with a set amount of memory.

I have NASCAR Racing 2003 Season and around 18gigabytes of extra files and mods, and quite a few sound packs. As the PC is a lot easier to work with such modifications such as sound are easy to do, due to the increased memory.

No. My ps3 has more "memory" than my pc and I have gtr2 mods and fallout 3/nv with lots of mods. Space is not the issue...available content is. PC games have hige mod communities and frequently the best content is from that community. Many of these guys get hired by the developers.

Consoles are restricted from that system for the most part and all new content must come from the dev.

Also, features added by mods are frequently cloned and added to the official release. WOW is a great example of this. Compare ui features o in the release version to the current and you will see many features added previously only by add ons.

This allows for a huge pool of ideas and content that a single dev team alone could never produce. It isn't that pc is easier to work with...it is that modding consoles atm is impossible.

 

[Jav]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The memory isn't that important, GT5 already has fantastic effects (echo, doppler etc.) and a great sorround sound, the samples themself are just horrible most of the time. The modability of a game is also irrelevant.

The worst part is that GT5 has some decent sound samples, but they are applied wrong.

-The sound sample From the Ford GT Race Car is the sound sample that should me used by the RM Vettes, Mercedes SLS Stealth and most other big V8s with a race exhaust.
-The Sound sample used by the RM Vettes is the sound sample that should be used by the Ferraris and 07 BMW M3 with the Racing Exhaust.
-The Ford GT Race car should use the same sound sample the Ford Falcon Race Car uses.
-The Zonda R and all V12 cars with a racing exhaust should use the sound sample from the Veyron with the race exhaust.
-The Sound sample from the Audi R8 LMS should be used for all V10 cars equiped with a Racing Exhaust.
-The GT-R TCs should use the same Sound Sample the Fairlady Concept LM uses.

This little tweaks can be easily done by PD and included on a small update. Small tweaks that would make the game so much more enjoiable.

 

[counter345]

-The Zonda R and all V12 cars with a racing exhaust should use the sound sample from the Veyron with the race exhaust.

NO! That is a horrible sound! And it sounds nothing like an Aston Martin, OR the Zonda!

 

[Jav]

NO! That is a horrible sound! And it sounds nothing like an Aston Martin, OR the Zonda!

Lol, still better than what we have at the moment...

 

[Furinkazen]

Ok maybe my point was not clear. But PC will always offer much more freedom. Of course this has nothing to do with the fact PD did not use the correct engine notes and made some cars sound horrible.

 

[Jav]

NO! That is a horrible sound! And it sounds nothing like an Aston Martin, OR the Zonda!

You know, it actually sounds closer to the Viper on this video:

 

[HKS racer]

Ok maybe my point was not clear. But PC will always offer much more freedom. Of course this has nothing to do with the fact PD did not use the correct engine notes and made some cars sound horrible.

Not always, let's talk about a simulator with no freedom at all, iRacing: you can't even buy it only rent it, you can't add mods, they charge you for every car and track. So, no freedom at all. Still they have better sounds than PD and not because they are on pc.

NO! That is a horrible sound! And it sounds nothing like an Aston Martin, OR the Zonda!

Please dude be smart, he was just suggesting short term improvements.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Consoles are restricted from that system for the most part and all new content must come from the dev.

Not true, Unreal Tournament 3 proves the opposite.

 

[lebes14]

I can imagine a system where they could allow mods to be made and then sent to the system through a redeem code perhaps. Assuming they can work out liscensing.

 

[savage388]

I've been messing with the options and found out that there IS good sound in gt5. It is just hiding under the dominant high pitched whine every car seems to have with racing exhaust. Just set the sound to small theater, then jack the 100hz,300hz and 1khz range sounds way up to get the low frequencies that hide under the high pitched crap. Also raise the super high pitched 10khz+ I bit. Finally go test drive the lambo lp670 I am only working with tv speakers and it helps so I'd imagine with external audio it sounds great.

 

[Hyakushiki]

I've tried this, and you may be on to something the exhaust note in much improved and the whine of the close ratio transmission isn't as pronounced. Not quite as dramatic as the real thing but is nicer to listen to.

 

[savage388]

I've tried this, and you may be on to something the exhaust note in much improved and the whine of the close ratio transmission isn't as pronounced. Not quite as dramatic as the real thing but is nicer to listen to.

Yea its more of a band aid than anything. Pd seemed to have really amplified the high pitched frequencies of the car's sound.
Oh and are you using a sound system or just tour tv?

 

[Hyakushiki]

Just my TV's speakers, but I can notice the difference in sound quality.

 

[Jav]

Unfourtunately this is not an option for all of us, my reciever only has a limited number of pre-sets and that's it, no real djustments to compensate...

 

[savage388]

Just my TV's speakers, but I can notice the difference in sound quality.

I wonder what it would be like with a sound system.

Unfourtunately this is not an option for all of us, my reciever only has a limited number of pre-sets and that's it, no real djustments to compensate...

That's a shame. Just try a setting with strong bass and lower-midrange sound. That should get a similar effect.👍

 

[Griffith500]

Interestingly, intake sound is usually boomy and bassy, but also has a low-frequency texture (a modulation, if you will, owing to the geometry of the intake gubbins) that is pretty distinctive, in a car's interior, particularly.
All GT games have had intake completely absent from the soundscape. Sort of makes sense, doesn't it? It's not that they emphasised the "high frequency" stuff so much that they've left out a key part of the sound, which just so happens to flesh out the lower frequencies in most cars.

I watched all of these, and most of them have intake sound dominating (one or two of the racers have more exhaust noise; the evo has that intake "rush" sound typical of boosted engines that you only hear in the cabin). They're all real interior recordings, and mostly the exhaust is playing second fiddle. Not the best sound quality, but you get the idea at least.