GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[zjn]

Everytime I read this discussions about SR I cannot wrap my mind around them.

I mean... my DR goes up and down in between high C and high D, my SR never has been less then S.
I have about 116 races and 13 clean races.
It happens to me to get contact or to initiate contact but never intentionally
From time to time I get penalties for contacts, would say <10% of the race (I'm on purpose ignoring here the penalties coming from hitting the barriers)

So my question points are:
does it make sense that with these figures I've always been SR S? What should I do to see this rating decrease?
It's just generating more contact? Is it going into people rear at 150Kmh instead of 80?

I'd like to see a video of a race that generates an SR class drop to understand this.

I don't mean to sound immaculate or better, let me be clear, I just don't understand how you can get to a low SR rating unless you deliberately and repeatedly seek out contacts.

So, my point for the discussion is that PD should punish more in terms of SR points drop, and ensure that lower rate people run against each other.
In other words the rating behind the DR stat, even with its limitations, works way better than the one for the SR.
You are a jerk with SR B? Fine, go race with other jerks. Cannot find them? Race in a 3-4 people lobbies, and spend the time understanding what you did wrong

As for the evalutation of who is to blame for a contact
again PD has to improve a lot, but, since it's not an easy process, I'd follow ACC example, where it's dosn't matter who is the offender and who is the victim, both drivers get rating reduction. It may sound unfear, but long term would work

Dude tried to end your day. You returned the favor, with interest. Good on you and maybe next time he won't be so eager to wreck someone just because he can.

I may see your point, not sure I agree but it's legit.
The point is that I'm using all my CPU to drive the @##@#@ car, hit the marks, avoid mistakes.
There's no capacity left to do what you propose
If I try it I'm quite sure I'll miss the target and wreck myself alone

 

[benjoi84]

That's exactly what I was hoping for in daily races with DR affected too. Fingers crossed...

Obviously it needs to be SR along with DR being affected. Can you imagine the carnage otherwise?

 

[TheOneDonJuan]

Some of my fave players in GT are those who seemingly think only they can do dirty moves and that everyone else will play nice when they do.

This guy just tries to swipe me out of nowhere, no prior run in, for seemingly very little gain since we're in the part of the race we should both be powering down to try and catch the leaders..

But, my friend, I'm right behind you now, going into turn 1, do you think I forgot what you just did? Or perhaps I'm just a touch late.. on the brakes... and oops, oh no...



View attachment 1231278

There needs to be reporting for stuff like this. It's going to be a while before the games get sophisticated enough to truly understand how drivers race dirty. It's obvious to us and not to the game. Hence why we don't have robo refs I sports.

 

[Mercia]

You are a jerk with SR B? Fine, go race with other jerks. Cannot find them? Race in a 3-4 people lobbies, and spend the time understanding what you did wrong

Yep, just rip the system straight out of GTA

 

[Nebuc72]

Just had the greatest dodge of all time in Race A, avoiding an angry missile. Thankfully, it got caught on stream.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[benjoi84]

There's a real problem with short-terminism when it comes to racing etiquette... The very basic "Me Go Fast" style of driver literally can only see the position ahead of them whether it's 2nd, 1st or 9th and they will fight for it. This translates to the bigger picture in terms of DR, too in my opinion.

If someone does not improve their race-craft on the whole, then any increases on the DR front will only be temporary because they will always find another player or indeed a whole lobby who finds them out and suddenly they will have found their ceiling and come tumbling back down again.

I'm aware there are some very high ranking drivers who have a dirty streak, who like to bring out the beast after a long well-behaved hiatus, but I hope they are a very small minority.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

Obviously it needs to be SR along with DR being affected. Can you imagine the carnage otherwise?

Oh, yes of course!

 

[hollowkatt]

harking back to something I said the other day I think there's a difference between dirty driving and messy driving. For example in the video shared earlier where nissan a shoved nissan b off the circuit that's dirty for sure. the retaliation could however be viewed as messy if nobody knew that the retaliating driver had already been shoved off.

Something I think we all need to remember is that sometimes what we perceive as dirty is really just messy. missing a brake point, swinging too wide in a corner, those kinds of things can be marked up to bad race craft, skill issues, momentary lapse of reason, just a mistake, yeah?

All that aside though it looks like the only reason to have a high SR is to also have a high DR. The rewards you get from a clean race bonus aren't high enough, and nobody is grinding multiplayer for cash anyways.
So driver x, who's a bit hotheaded, has zero repercussions (other than from the community/their fellow racers) if they aren't clean and throw elbows around.

The problem is I dunno if there's a way to fix or address that without drastically overhauling how online play works including penalty system and matchmaking.

Like matchmaking is already self-segregating in terms of DR/SR at least at peak times so it's not really a threat to say "if you have a low SR you're racing low SR people yourself" because yeah, that already happens and nobody cares.

I don't think it's a culture thing you can change either. At least not without addressing the elephant in the room that is "professional drivers routinely place their cars in such a way as to say 'if you want this space you're going to wreck both of us'" and frankly we can't address that at all. So drivers in game who are consumers of IRL racing products think to themselves "my fav driver can throw elbows and be a dick and all they do is win" and then attempt to replicate that.

I'm not sure there's a fix, at all. Just something to be aware of, try to have as clean of races as you can, but paybacks are a thing and sometimes you just gotta cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

 

[TheNormsk]

Interesting. It was of course the car of choice at Le Mans recently but would be thought not to have the space it needs to hit top speed at Sardegna. Will give this a run today as well as I've hit a wall in the WRX.

Regarding the Huracan, I purchased that this morning and painted it my fav colors so it has to be quick right? No. I find that it can keep up with the 155 in the first two sectors but for whatever reason I just can't get it around the right, uphill, left complex with any speed. It loses a lot of time there. I guess yesterday I was just bad at everything so it didn't matter. This morning, I shaved more time of my QT but that was with the Alfa. That's still the strongest car for me as the WRX and I don't get along.

I was watching @GrumpyOldMan QT replay and I noticed that he uses TCS, ASM and Counter-Steer. So I did the same (set counter-steer to strong) and lo and behold I took time off my QT. I'm still a second behind you guys but I thought these aids slowed you down? It appears that with some of the tricky turns on this track that the ASM, TCS and counter steer allows you to get away with dumping power through the wheels in a less than subtle way..

 

[MCL1974]

in the end it all comes down to this: PD is not some sort of governing body of on-line racing competition, they are a company and what they focus on is maximum profit. If they sell more copies when the game is aimed at casual gamers who pick up the controller and go and race a bit, ram a bit, feel like they are sort of Verstappen or Ticktum and have some fun then that is their focus. And I think the majority of the players of GT are like that.

So it is only natural that PD focusses on those players, and most of these players do not want a penalty system or annoying DS/SR ratings that might have influence on their fun experience.

If PD was in any way really serious about fair play and clean driving then they would have focussed on that and implemented a decent penalty system and punished dirty drivers. It says enough that PD has always tolerated that drivers like Kimi Velocini, Luis Denisius, PD Motorsport, Momos and the likes that openly cheat and drive dirty. For years now we see their antics almost daily and PD has seen it also and has never taken any real action. Why? because they don't care. As long as enough copies are sold they are happy.

Here at GT Planet i think most at this forum have a whole different attitude towards racing but I think we are the minority here....

 

[Fezzik]

PD is not some sort of governing body of on-line racing competition

They absolutely are. They run their own racing series.

The vast majority of people who buy the game don't play in Sport mode (the trophy stats back that up). Having a strict penalty system or having none at all won't change that. PD's reluctance/unwillingness/inability to have a functioning sportsmanship and penalty system has little to do with sales figures.

 

[TheNormsk]

in the end it all comes down to this: PD is not some sort of governing body of on-line racing competition, they are a company and what they focus on is maximum profit. If they sell more copies when the game is aimed at casual gamers who pick up the controller and go and race a bit, ram a bit, feel like they are sort of Verstappen or Ticktum and have some fun then that is their focus. And I think the majority of the players of GT are like that.

So it is only natural that PD focusses on those players, and most of these players do not want a penalty system or annoying DS/SR ratings that might have influence on their fun experience.

If PD was in any way really serious about fair play and clean driving then they would have focussed on that and implemented a decent penalty system and punished dirty drivers. It says enough that PD has always tolerated that drivers like Kimi Velocini, Luis Denisius, PD Motorsport, Momos and the likes that openly cheat and drive dirty. For years now we see their antics almost daily and PD has seen it also and has never taken any real action. Why? because they don't care. As long as enough copies are sold they are happy.

Here at GT Planet i think most at this forum have a whole different attitude towards racing but I think we are the minority here....

Perhaps online needs to be split into two sections. Sport and League. They can still have the invite only championship (or whatever that is as I have not looked at it).

Sport could be for the more casual racers. Less about penalties and more about having fun. Perhaps get rid of the DR/SR letter classifications and have a single numeric score instead that is a combination of DR and SR scoring. That might help with the trying to keep a ranking at all cost attitude. Oh, why not make it more arcady! Not as in physics but in scoring. Pass a driver +100 points, hit a driver -100 points, hit a driver that takes them off track -250 points, glance a wall -50 points, plow into a wall -100 points, cut corner -100 points, off track -50 points, clean lap bonus +500 points then points based on finishing position? PD could run an AI model to sim thousands of races to tune the points scoring to reach the point where the AI determines it is better to race clean than dirty for maximum point gain..

League could be more like the current system but harsh penalties for bad driving behavior. Have four daily races all of which get DR/SR ranking. However, you can only attain a certain daily race if you have a certain DR Ranking. So Race A would be open to E and up drivers (everyone), Race A and B to C and up drivers, Race A, B and C to B and up drivers and Race A, B, C and D to A -> drivers. The kicker here is that SR point changes get added into the DR so if you perform bad driving that lowers your SR you also lower your DR. Conversely, if you improve your SR early on, it also helps you improve your DR to get into the better daily races; kind of like a multiplier.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

I just don't get that. Only the select few that goes to the world tour gets anything. And how many of us is that?
The rest of us gets nothing - NOTHING - from having a higher DR. I could understand if having a higher Dr gave you better races but it's my understanding it really doesn't. It gives you less accidental mistakes but more elaborate dirty.

So dropping down to B makes absolutely no difference unless that A is a bragging right.
And it isn't. Try it on your wife....

For me, it's just a goal to achieve. Nothing more.

I mean... my DR goes up and down in between high C and high D, my SR never has been less then S.

Lately it doesn't seem like my SR is getting affected much by anything.

All that aside though it looks like the only reason to have a high SR is to also have a high DR.

Personally, I wish I could drop back to SR A, because when I get in SR S lobbies, I'm almost always seeded lower than I would be in SR A lobbies. I only have anecdotal evidence, but I think it's true.

I was watching @GrumpyOldMan QT replay and I noticed that he uses TCS, ASM and Counter-Steer. So I did the same (set counter-steer to strong) and lo and behold I took time of my QT. I'm still a second behind you guys but I thought these aids slowed you down?

Warning: Opinion follows, and if I'm honest, I'm not sure it's based on facts. It's almost like I'm saying that game console A is better than B, without having ever tried B. But I'll give my opinion anyway, because I can't help myself:

See, this is the problem I have with people harping on the idea that the only way to get faster is to turn off assists. It really depends on your driving skills. Up until you reach a certain point, the assists are likely going to do more good than harm. To me, I'd rather focus on learning how to drive consistently, from lap to lap. That's much more important than cutting a few tenths of a second off my time.

-end opinion-

With all that said, last time we were using Gr.4 4WD cars (or maybe the time before that), I turned off all assists and didn't notice hardly any difference at all. But on this week's track, I see a difference, and I'm definitely faster with them on. Unless the placebo effect is in play, which is quite possible.

 

[zjn]

in the end it all comes down to this: PD is not some sort of governing body of on-line racing competition, they are a company and what they focus on is maximum profit. If they sell more copies when the game is aimed at casual gamers who pick up the controller and go and race a bit, ram a bit, feel like they are sort of Verstappen or Ticktum and have some fun then that is their focus. And I think the majority of the players of GT are like that.

So it is only natural that PD focusses on those players, and most of these players do not want a penalty system or annoying DS/SR ratings that might have influence on their fun experience.

If PD was in any way really serious about fair play and clean driving then they would have focussed on that and implemented a decent penalty system and punished dirty drivers. It says enough that PD has always tolerated that drivers like Kimi Velocini, Luis Denisius, PD Motorsport, Momos and the likes that openly cheat and drive dirty. For years now we see their antics almost daily and PD has seen it also and has never taken any real action. Why? because they don't care. As long as enough copies are sold they are happy.

Here at GT Planet i think most at this forum have a whole different attitude towards racing but I think we are the minority here....

They have you go through that annoying etiquette when you first go in sportmode
they implemented a penalty system
they enforced the wall raiding penalities
therefore they have raised themselves to governing body

No DR/SR Race A is there for one reason.

I agree that they do not have and do not want to forget about casual players, just give the option to non casual (or pretending not begin casual) players a safe place to race

 

[hollowkatt]

Perhaps online needs to be split into two sections. Sport and League. They can still have the invite only championship (or whatever that is as I have not looked at it).

Sport could be for the more casual racers. Less about penalties and more about having fun. Perhaps get rid of the DR/SR letter classifications and have a single numeric score instead that is a combination of DR and SR scoring. That might help with the trying to keep a ranking at all cost attitude. Oh, why not make it more arcady! Not as in physics but in scoring. Pass a driver +100 points, hit a driver -100 points, hit a driver that takes them off track -250 points, glance a wall -50 points, plow into a wall -100 points, cut corner -100 points, off track -50 points, clean lap bonus +500 points then points based on finishing position? PD could run an AI model to sim thousands of races to tune the points scoring to reach the point where the AI determines it is better to race clean than dirty for maximum point gain..

League could be more like the current system but harsh penalties for bad driving behavior. Have four daily races all of which get DR/SR ranking. However, you can only attain a certain daily race if you have a certain DR Ranking. So Race A would be open to E and up drivers (everyone), Race A and B to C and up drivers, Race A, B and C to B and up drivers and Race A, B, C and D to A -> drivers. The kicker here is that SR point changes get added into the DR so if you perform bad driving that lowers your SR you also lower your DR. Conversely, if you improve your SR early on, it also helps you improve your DR to get into the better daily races; kind of like a multiplier.

riffing on this:
What if payments were directly tied to DR/SR combinations? Say you have a baseline of 10K for a win if you're E/E and if you're A+/S that payment is 100K for a win. Scale accordingly for the ratings in between.

I know for a fact if I can make a boatload more money by being fast and clean I'll do so. But currently there's no reward for it and honestly humans are still mostly a combination of reptile and monkey brain and we're hardwired to perform better when rewards are present.

I do like the idea of Leagues vs Dailies but I don't think you're going to get enough people joining a League nor do I think restricting entry into dailies by DR/SR is the way to go as it can put undue burden a driver that gets penalized for the actions of others. For example I'm driving along having a clean race and I get booped from behind. I go off track and hit the wall, maybe even several times. I get at Seaside a 6 second penalty which drops my SR from A to B. Now I'm locked out of a daily through no fault of my own until I raise my ranking. I find that to be unfairly punishing the driver who literally did nothing wrong but still took a SR hit because of someone else actions.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

But on this week's track, I see a difference, and I'm definitely faster with them on. Unless the placebo effect is in play, which is quite possible.

So right after I posted this, I turned off TCS and CA, but I left ASM on, and I improved my time by .168 seconds. The reason I left ASM on was when I was starting a QT lap, that last turn before the start I started sliding too much. I think I can figure that out, though.

Then I ran a race with them back on, P8-P8.

In any case, am I faster or slower with the driving assists on? I haven't a clue. But now I'm thinking I should try more Q laps with everything off. No guarantee I'll keep it that way, but we'll see.

 

[TheNormsk]

I do like the idea of Leagues vs Dailies but I don't think you're going to get enough people joining a League nor do I think restricting entry into dailies by DR/SR is the way to go as it can put undue burden a driver that gets penalized for the actions of others. For example I'm driving along having a clean race and I get booped from behind. I go off track and hit the wall, maybe even several times. I get at Seaside a 6 second penalty which drops my SR from A to B. Now I'm locked out of a daily through no fault of my own until I raise my ranking. I find that to be unfairly punishing the driver who literally did nothing wrong but still took a SR hit because of someone else actions.

Fair point. I was thinking that if you get hit and taken out, the penalty you get today would be passed down to the person who hit you. Of course if PD was able to figure that out then they should be doing it on the current system anyway.

Sport and League could both be 3 races, like today. However sport would be based on QT as we have it now using any car. League would be more "professional" and have a single hot-lap qualifier before the race using the same car you're going to drive with, with whatever tire is allowed. What would be hilarious as well is if there was weather during qualifying (same for everyone of course). Could you imagine what the starting grid for LeMans would be like if you had to qualify one hot lap own full wets in rain?

 

[zjn]

I get at Seaside a 6 second penalty which drops my SR from A to B.

so you are saying that right now the SR rating deduction is only dependent on how many penalty secs you get in race?

 

[Fezzik]

League would be more "professional" and have a single hot-lap qualifier before the race using the same car you're going to drive with, with whatever tire is allowed. What would be hilarious as well is if there was weather during qualifying (same for everyone of course). Could you imagine what the starting grid for LeMans would be like if you had to qualify one hot lap own full wets in rain?

You mean like the GTWS races that already exist?

 

[TheNormsk]

You mean like the GTWS races that already exist?

Is that the case? I have not looked at those as I thought they were invite only and only occur sporadically.

 

[Famine]

so you are saying that right now the SR rating deduction is only dependent on how many penalty secs you get in race?

No. That paragraph is a hypothetical.


Right now, you lose SR for contact with other drivers or barriers, or driving off track. And also for driving the wrong way around the circuit, being booted, or quitting. You gain SR every time you drive through a full sector without doing anything that would lose you SR.

 

[Fezzik]

Is that the case? I have not looked at those as I thought they were invite only and only occur sporadically.

Anyone can enter the competition. Invites are for some live events, and top scorers (the pros, basically) get to go to the finals.

 

[zjn]

No. That paragraph is a hypothetical.


Right now, you lose SR for contact with other drivers or barriers, or driving off track. And also for driving the wrong way around the circuit, being booted, or quitting. You gain SR every time you drive through a full sector without doing anything that would lose you SR.

I don't see nothing about determining victims and executioner in your statement. So right now it does not matter if you ram or get rammed.
This is much more close to my hypothetical proposal couple of post ago, they should just increase the quantity that they deduct and reduce the quantity that they add, therefore losing points takes a while to recover.
This will encourage good behaves, i.e. don't be hyperaggressive for few races, accept being overtaken, until you go back to your SR rating.
Also, maybe, forgive/punish very little the first event in a race, and apply sort of exponential punishment subsequent events in the same race.
And, again, populate lobbies with people only graded with the same DR AND SR


I guess this will work for both C and A+ drivers, meaning...
C drivers will learn to be patient and don't attack any turn like the first chicane at Monza
A+ drivers, with very improved car control skills and general race craft will still be in much more control and will be vey little affected by this changes.

 

[Famine]

I don't see nothing about determining victims and executioner in your statement. So right now it does not matter if you ram or get rammed.

Nor has it ever mattered, right from the GT Sport Beta.

 

[newb1017]

So right after I posted this, I turned off TCS and CA, but I left ASM on, and I improved my time by .168 seconds. The reason I left ASM on was when I was starting a QT lap, that last turn before the start I started sliding too much. I think I can figure that out, though.

Then I ran a race with them back on, P8-P8.

In any case, am I faster or slower with the driving assists on? I haven't a clue. But now I'm thinking I should try more Q laps with everything off. No guarantee I'll keep it that way, but we'll see.

Like you, I am an unapologetic about using assists. But, the one thing I like is that for AWD or FF cars in GR4 I never need ASM or TSC. In fact I can feel the bogging down with TSC 1. I am guessing that in the 155 having any assists on (other than default ABS) is just a mental thing, as you say. As for the sliding, it is helpful in a couple of spots to kick out the ass end a little if we want to on Sardegna B.

Gr4 just feels like a happy place for me now because in Gr3 and road cars I am always trying to figure out the least TSC I need, and where I am driving an automatic that is two strikes against my pace..

PS. One thing I need to do is try the 155 in race B QT again. It is a dream to drive but I can't get close to my WRX QT. The WRX feels like a tank and intuitively I feel my laps in the 155 are quicker, but in the end that heavy old WRX is faster..

 

[hollowkatt]

so you are saying that right now the SR rating deduction is only dependent on how many penalty secs you get in race?

As far as I understand the ways you can lose SR all involve penalties yes. It's not directly (again as far as I know) tied to how many seconds worth you get. I know I lose more SR if I have an off track penalty + wall + I hit a guy than I do if I just hit a guy. Maybe someone with more knowledge can share what they know about how much SR you can lose etc.

@GrumpyOldMan what's your time now? I think I have a 25:xxx currently. Started the day with a 27:8xx and then got on a hot lap where everything kinda clicked. Probs have a 24 in me, don't think I have a 23

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Regarding the Huracan, I purchased that this morning and painted it my fav colors so it has to be quick right? No. I find that it can keep up with the 155 in the first two sectors but for whatever reason I just can't get it around the right, uphill, left complex with any speed. It loses a lot of time there. I guess yesterday I was just bad at everything so it didn't matter. This morning, I shaved more time of my QT but that was with the Alfa. That's still the strongest car for me as the WRX and I don't get along.

I was watching @GrumpyOldMan QT replay and I noticed that he uses TCS, ASM and Counter-Steer. So I did the same (set counter-steer to strong) and lo and behold I took time off my QT. I'm still a second behind you guys but I thought these aids slowed you down? It appears that with some of the tricky turns on this track that the ASM, TCS and counter steer allows you to get away with dumping power through the wheels in a less than subtle way..

It only slows you down when you are faster than that. I say run what you like but be prepared to see PD ban it from sport mode in the future, like they did in GTS

 

[diablopug]

Just got a nice win on Race C.
Was some good driving by others. But some made some mistakes that helped me take the Win.
At the end of the race I got called a dirty driver, Greek guy. He said to check the replay which I did.
The 1st contact I had from the 1st RX he clipped my behind into T5 hairpin, Was a bit back before he hit me, I tried to keep on the track and not being pushed over the kerb into the wall from him running me wide he ended up coming worse off. Only wheel movement was to stop car sliding about.
2nd RX (mister Greek) He'd already divebombed into T2 chicane. (Looking back at his replay)
He took advantage of what was happening at T5 hairpin, came along side me, I could see exactly where I was, I braked before T6 the uphill esses and he'd turned in on me. Unsure if he had radar on. But I tried to give him room. I'm by no means a dirty driver and will always back out. But looking at this drivers actions after down to the hairpin T9 he'd got divebombed he then tried to swipe said guy off, just looking at his wheel turning left sharply. But caught himself out. Apart from the aggressive RX visions it was a good and fair race.
I did upload it using GTP & GTplanet as unsure how to edit a replay using the different angles/car views etc. Don't think a video with just the 1 rear car view would be clear cut & fair.

 

[hollowkatt]

hey @GrumpyOldMan I'm catching you old man!

Also to the people saying "assists make you slower" Grumpy here is running lots of assists. Has a 1:25:02x for QT for Race B. I am running ABS as my only assist. My best QT is a 1:25:150.

Is it possible that Grumpy could be faster with out them? Sure. Does he need to be without them to be more than fast enough to compete for top QT times in his lobbies and to race quickly? nah.

Someone in a lobby reminded me today: This is just a video game.

There's literally nothing stopping you from playing with the view, assist level, or controller tool that you want to.

I have seen elitist attitudes towards assists, views, and controller choices all around the internet literally for decades. At the end of the day it boils down to "what do you like". That's it. Unless you're playing a game/sim/whatever that enforces certain FOV (looking at you iRacing) you don't get to tell others how to engage with their game.

It's ok to believe that cockpit FOV, no assists, on a wheel is the purest, most fun, most interesting, whatever way to experience a racing simulator/game.

It's also ok to sit back on the couch, turn on all the assists, cuddle up in a blanket, and grab your controller for some chase cam goodness.

There is no "sim racing police" who are going to come and take your playstation away if you don't follow someone else rules.

Ok rant over, go try Race B it's kinda fun! I didn't think I'd enjoy it but it's quick, nothing super complex or hard, and yeah it's basically a two make race but battles are good and ample opportunities to mix it up.

 

[MCL1974]

hey @GrumpyOldMan I'm catching you old man!

Also to the people saying "assists make you slower" Grumpy here is running lots of assists. Has a 1:25:02x for QT for Race B. I am running ABS as my only assist. My best QT is a 1:25:150.

Is it possible that Grumpy could be faster with out them? Sure. Does he need to be without them to be more than fast enough to compete for top QT times in his lobbies and to race quickly? nah.

Someone in a lobby reminded me today: This is just a video game.

There's literally nothing stopping you from playing with the view, assist level, or controller tool that you want to.

I have seen elitist attitudes towards assists, views, and controller choices all around the internet literally for decades. At the end of the day it boils down to "what do you like". That's it. Unless you're playing a game/sim/whatever that enforces certain FOV (looking at you iRacing) you don't get to tell others how to engage with their game.

It's ok to believe that cockpit FOV, no assists, on a wheel is the purest, most fun, most interesting, whatever way to experience a racing simulator/game.

It's also ok to sit back on the couch, turn on all the assists, cuddle up in a blanket, and grab your controller for some chase cam goodness.

There is no "sim racing police" who are going to come and take your playstation away if you don't follow someone else rules.

Ok rant over, go try Race B it's kinda fun! I didn't think I'd enjoy it but it's quick, nothing super complex or hard, and yeah it's basically a two make race but battles are good and ample opportunities to mix it up.

I use AT, TCS, (often on 2, especially in GR. 3 ), the screen on chasecam and braking area and driveline assist are on.
Without those I am even slower....and usually facing the wrong way of the track sooner or later. mostly sooner.

Anybody got a problem with me using those assists, then they can kiss my 'chasecam'!!!