GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[zjn]

This is going to be a long post, so I apologize in advance for the long-windedness.
On Monday I did some qualifying laps on race B and then a couple of races, all with absolutely no reference (Tidgney) and knowing little about the track.
I came out with a 1:28.008.
Later the same day, I watched Tidgney's video:
good news - the references I had found independently were often the same as his. A couple of months ago this would not have happened.
bad news - 1:24.62 (I actually already had the wake-up call during the races, seeing the Q-time of the other D and C drivers I was racing against)

I didn't put my hand back on PS4 until yesterday, but I had a plan:

PART ONE:
Use Grumpy's ghost (definitely faster than me and an Alfa user, like me) to improve my time.
After about 30 laps my record was 1:26.079, compared to the ghost's 1:25.172.

PART TWO:
Analyze my replay and his replay to identify areas for improvement, starting mainly with the corners before the main and back straight

Here things started to go diversely from what I expected: the sensations I had after the qualifying session spoke of a good and consistent performance from the first corner to the braking of the corner leading to the back straight, braking of the corner of the back straight (the fast right downhill) inconstant and with the feeling of losing against the ghost, corners before the final chicane unsafe, final chicane inconstant and with the feeling of losing against the ghost.

OK, let's roll up our sleeves and check the telemetry (aka the replays....)

Downhill turn before the back straight: my feelings were wrong. it is probably true that I am erratic, but on the best recorded lap I end up about ten meters behind the ghost with virtually the same exit speed. I thought I was losing more

Last chicane: pretty much the same considerations

I lose a lot instead in the corners in between, coming out with a speed 13Kmh lower


These findings confuse me a bit:
using a ghost that is better than me but not alien certainly helps, since the car doesn't disappear after the first corner, but if then, even with that, I am unable to judge where I am losing as soon as the ghost pulls away a bit, then it only does half the job.
I need to figure out how to handle this information better without getting confused by the incremental differences being generated and the space moving accordion-like with speed.

Also... let's pretend I'm having trouble in turn 1, so a turn that follows a straight, where I have time to position myself and visually look for the braking point, trailbraking, touching the apex, reopening the throttle.

Let's say that by reviewing the replays I find that I have a significantly lower minimum corner speed than my reference.

How do I train myself to raise this minimum speed? Do I gradually brake later until I can no longer get apex? Do I brake at the same point and work better on trail braking?

Worse yet, let's say I don't have a ghost to compare with. How do I start to realize if I am having less performance than the machine could give me? Without an idea about this I could go on for years nailing the same time consistently (emh...I'm being cool, I wouldn't be capable of that either) without realizing that it's a school bus time and not a driver's time.

I will leave you the video I made, your comments on what I wrote and what you can see will definitely help me improve.



Thank you

 

[Mercia]

FYI you can adjust the height and distance view in “cockpit view “ via the pre race settings. I thought I’d mention it just in case 🍻

Indeed but for the RSR, and the GT40 it's basically useless. If you can drive these in cockpit, credit to you.

 

[TheNormsk]

This is going to be a long post, so I apologize in advance for the long-windedness.
On Monday I did some qualifying laps on race B and then a couple of races, all with absolutely no reference (Tidgney) and knowing little about the track.
I came out with a 1:28.008.
Later the same day, I watched Tidgney's video:
good news - the references I had found independently were often the same as his. A couple of months ago this would not have happened.
bad news - 1:24.62 (I actually already had the wake-up call during the races, seeing the Q-time of the other D and C drivers I was racing against)

I didn't put my hand back on PS4 until yesterday, but I had a plan:

PART ONE:
Use Grumpy's ghost (definitely faster than me and an Alfa user, like me) to improve my time.
After about 30 laps my record was 1:26.079, compared to the ghost's 1:25.172.

PART TWO:
Analyze my replay and his replay to identify areas for improvement, starting mainly with the corners before the main and back straight

Here things started to go diversely from what I expected: the sensations I had after the qualifying session spoke of a good and consistent performance from the first corner to the braking of the corner leading to the back straight, braking of the corner of the back straight (the fast right downhill) inconstant and with the feeling of losing against the ghost, corners before the final chicane unsafe, final chicane inconstant and with the feeling of losing against the ghost.

OK, let's roll up our sleeves and check the telemetry (aka the replays....)

Downhill turn before the back straight: my feelings were wrong. it is probably true that I am erratic, but on the best recorded lap I end up about ten meters behind the ghost with virtually the same exit speed. I thought I was losing more

Last chicane: pretty much the same considerations

I lose a lot instead in the corners in between, coming out with a speed 13Kmh lower


These findings confuse me a bit:
using a ghost that is better than me but not alien certainly helps, since the car doesn't disappear after the first corner, but if then, even with that, I am unable to judge where I am losing as soon as the ghost pulls away a bit, then it only does half the job.
I need to figure out how to handle this information better without getting confused by the incremental differences being generated and the space moving accordion-like with speed.

Also... let's pretend I'm having trouble in turn 1, so a turn that follows a straight, where I have time to position myself and visually look for the braking point, trailbraking, touching the apex, reopening the throttle.

Let's say that by reviewing the replays I find that I have a significantly lower minimum corner speed than my reference.

How do I train myself to raise this minimum speed? Do I gradually brake later until I can no longer get apex? Do I brake at the same point and work better on trail braking?

Worse yet, let's say I don't have a ghost to compare with. How do I start to realize if I am having less performance than the machine could give me? Without an idea about this I could go on for years nailing the same time consistently (emh...I'm being cool, I wouldn't be capable of that either) without realizing that it's a school bus time and not a driver's time.

I will leave you the video I made, your comments on what I wrote and what you can see will definitely help me improve.



Thank you

I can't really help you as I'm in the same boat. But I did finally jump ahead of your time this morning on the board Unfortunately I forgot to save my lap so I can't review it so see what I did.

What I have found is that exit speed on corners is everything. I'm usually pretty good down the starting straight and T1 and in the first sector I can often keep up or even beat the saved ghosts that I'm chasing. With T1, I brake at the 100m board and sometimes I'm a little soon, and sometimes I'm a little late. Braking earlier, you can let off the brakes a bit and that then carries speed through the turn (usually straddling the apex) and this can be fast.

Where I start to lose out is getting better corner speed entering sector 2 which is T5 into the down-hill. I notice that some ghost go wider here but some are tight. For me, I haven't figured out what is best. I've had good results with both but I'm tending to favor the tighter approach hugging the apex.

The other point where time is lost is the uphill though I think I'm improving here, but it is still easy to lose 1/2 second just in the uphill climb if entry into T9 is slow. T10 is my nemesis. I lift but keep it in 3rd gear now. This appears to get me the better time but I've read that you should take this at full throttle, but I can't manage that. T11, I often give a micro-lift just to aid in turn it to avoid drifting out onto the grass.

The final T12/13 I'm now momentarily lifting (but on my faster times I'm not braking) to settle the car, then downshift to 3rd while turning in. Once pointing to T13 apex I then go full throttle and shift up as I red-line (usually about the apex).

But I'm still a good 1-1/2 seconds off the good drivers here......

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

and I might have bumped a few myself while doing it as I was in a surly mood after the abuse at the start

"surly mood" - that's the perfect explanation for that feeling (which I have all too often). Thanks for that!

1:25.988, my new best QT. Damn! Finally got through the 1:26 barrier.

Congrats!!

P4 deliberately swipes at DreHef knocking him out

That was some bad BS.

How do I train myself to raise this minimum speed? Do I gradually brake later until I can no longer get apex? Do I brake at the same point and work better on trail braking?

I can't really help you as I'm in the same boat.

I so totally understand what you're saying. It happens to me all the time, where I see a ghost do better than me, with little or no understanding of what the difference is. So frustrating. It's like I have the cheat sheet right in front of me, only it's encrypted somehow.

But here's some things I think are correct - if they're not, please someone correct me!

1. Exit speed is everything, when exiting onto a straight. Yes, it's possible to go too slow through the corner, but too slow with a good exit is way better than a fast speed with a bad exit.
2. It's possible there's more than one "correct" line. I've seen people take that right you were talking about close to the line, and others take a wider approach, and in the end, the exit speeds are often exactly the same, and the duration is the same.
3. (This may change depending on the corner, but in general): Accelerating before the apex is rarely helpful. It's almost always better to get to the apex, or even a little after, to before you start accelerating. If you accelerate before the apex, you usually lose exit speed.
4. Pay attention to what gears the ghosts use, assuming they're in the same cars. I'm not sure whether you should trust my specific ghost because this is something I struggle with, but changing gears at the proper spot can help with turns. Don't ask me how.
5. If possible, ease off the brake coming into a turn. If you're hard on the brakes and lift right when it's time to turn, the car won't be balanced and it'll cost you time.
6. And finally, with the left at the top of the hill going into the final stretch: don't be afraid to brake earlier than you think you should, and coast more than you might otherwise think. If you can come across the apex and get on the gas, without going off into the sand, then you're good. If you brake too late, you can't hit the corner apex so you end up swinging too wide.

Again, this could all be wrong. If it is, like I said, can someone please correct me, because if it is wrong, I need to stop doing it! 😂

 

[benjoi84]

Does anyone have any input about the effectiveness of the '18 Ford GT in Daily Race C? I've grown quite fond of the car choice and I've chalked up a half respectable quali and I was wondering what (tyre wear) I can expect under real race conditions when I attempt a few later this evening.

 

[ILLEAGLE_34]

Does anyone have any input about the effectiveness of the '18 Ford GT in Daily Race C? I've grown quite fond of the car choice and I've chalked up a half respectable quali and I was wondering what (tyre wear) I can expect under real race conditions when I attempt a few later this evening.

3-4 laps on RH seems to be the safe bet regardless of car choice. That of course can be stretched a little either way. Make sure to enter the pits without crossing the white line (3 second penalty) it’s got me a few times. Hopefully this helps 🍻

 

[TechnoIsLove]

@Leon Kowalski small update 🤣 Watched a video and the dude said best setting for G29 was controller sensitivity 5 and then full (10) torque and wheel sensitivity. At first I said this dude nuts but tried it anyway and he was right!

Only had time for a few laps today but after adjusting, started to improve. Net result was a 0.1 improvement but I was at least 0.4 sec ahead countless times but somehow screw it up 🤣

Will have a proper go tomorrow. Did 1 race and started/ ended P8 with nothing interesting but better than being hacked off the track 🤣

 

[BruceAlmighty]

Does anyone have any input about the effectiveness of the '18 Ford GT in Daily Race C? I've grown quite fond of the car choice and I've chalked up a half respectable quali and I was wondering what (tyre wear) I can expect under real race conditions when I attempt a few later this evening.

No but I suggest maybe trying a 5 and 5 for tires . I do 6 on hards and 4 medium with the M6

 

[MCL1974]

Have to say I am having so much fun trying to get the best laptime possible at Sardegna B. Best thing I have done recently is befriended several drivers that are better then me and then trying to keep up with them. Learned a lot from that!

Also fell in love with the Alfa 155, so easy and pleasant to drive, even with TCS desabled.

Question for the experts: What does the countersteering assist contribute in the driving and handling of the car? I noticed I had it turned on full, so changed the settings to weak, and curious if that will actually make a real difference? Did not really notice any changes in my driving since changing it to be honest. I am using a controller, don't know if that matters.....

 

[Giz WCR-666]

"Name & fame"

this should be its own thread

 

[sturk0167]

Wow! I really suck at all three of this week's daily races.

 

[Fezzik]

Wow! I really suck at all three of this week's daily races.

Welcome to my world

 

[benjoi84]

Thanks @BruceAlmighty and @ILLEAGLE_34 but tyre choice seems to be last of my worries. 3H 7M seemed to suffice.

Having a serious time of disillusionment with Sport Mode, for the first time in a long time. Put in the effort to 'embrace the chaos' and try a Group Category race for the first time in a while, qualifying mostly mid-pack at DT Seaside but first lap antics and the CoD (of course) are completely my undoing. Tumbled down to DR B, which isn't really the problem.

The problem is now I want to go back to my fun zone of Race A and I no longer have the appropriate ranking to enjoy the race the same way as I did before I ventured away. The lobbies are different, and the only way I could climb back up is for a combination to appear in Race B or C which allows me to. I even retaliated to some dirty driving tonight in the Subarus and that's really not my style.

BRING BACK RANKED RACE A!

 

[RacingGrandpa]

No but I suggest maybe trying a 5 and 5 for tires . I do 6 on hards and 4 medium with the M6

I do 3 hards and 7 medium in the AMG
Edit: I see you already made.your choice.

If you, like me, are.used to seaside from GTS this one looks similar but drives completely different. In almost every corner.
You have to be much more deliberate, and focus on the exits.
In the T1/2 combo you need to sacrifice T1 for 2. And then keep doing that through it.
The CoD, focus on the right entry curb, then as soon as you are getting in the sling zone you duck right.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Only had time for a few laps today but after adjusting, started to improve. Net result was a 0.1 improvement but I was at least 0.4 sec ahead countless times but somehow screw it up 🤣

Are you saying that you improved your lap times after you changed the wheel settings?

Question for the experts: What does the countersteering assist contribute in the driving and handling of the car? I noticed I had it turned on full, so changed the settings to weak, and curious if that will actually make a real difference? Did not really notice any changes in my driving since changing it to be honest. I am using a controller, don't know if that matters.....

For the Alfa in this week's race, it may not make any difference at all. Its 4WD is pretty stable. It feels to me that the car is slightly easier to control when I get in a situation where I might spin out, but I can't say for sure. The place I would pay attention to is the sharp right-hander before going up the hill. See if it has any effect there. If it doesn't then I doubt it helps. With that said, I have it on strong (not sure why).

 

[TheNormsk]

Question for the experts: What does the countersteering assist contribute in the driving and handling of the car? I noticed I had it turned on full, so changed the settings to weak, and curious if that will actually make a real difference? Did not really notice any changes in my driving since changing it to be honest. I am using a controller, don't know if that matters.....

I'm not sure exactly what happens when counter-steer comes into play but it engages when the car starts to oversteer. I'm not sure it is doing something with brakes or over boosting the steering when you counter but the general consensus is that it slows you down in corners so it is best left off. However, for certain cars it is almost essential. Last week's daily race C I would have been unable to drive my Silvia without counter steer set to strong. Same with that little rocket in daily race A. Sometimes I use counter-steer weak if I think I have a slightly tail happy car, but not one that is trying to murder me. Otherwise I leave it off.


EDIT: Opps, I saw you were asking the experts. Ignore me then. I'm a hack...

 

[Leon Kowalski]

@Leon Kowalski small update 🤣 Watched a video and the dude said best setting for G29 was controller sensitivity 5 and then full (10) torque and wheel sensitivity. At first I said this dude nuts but tried it anyway and he was right!

Sometimes when I read about all that complicated wheel stuff, I feel glad that my controller is really plug and play and the controller settings don't really make that much difference...😆

 

[TechnoIsLove]

Are you saying that you improved your lap times after you changed the wheel settings?

Yes but not just the lap time. Only did 10 laps and needed half to adjust from previous settings. After that, it was the overall control of the car and really understanding how it will react to my inputs. Now it's more direct and precise.

Could have gone half a second faster if I had more laps behind me in the new settings but still getting used to them.

Controller sensitivity from 10 to 5 and then wheel settings from 3/7 to 10/10 really made it more intuitive so expecting more practice leading to better results. Considering I improved in just 10 laps, I'm feeling confident/ hopeful 😁

 

[Dan_Tes]

Well there we go. Binned the RSR after finding it too understeery through the fast S’s and nervous going into the CoD. The AMG GT3 has the best of all worlds for me, predictable and rides the curbs better than the GTR.

I was in for a podium in my first race but went wide on the first chicane exit and ended up in the barrier multiple times. Race over. Second was much better, 3H/7M for strategy and kept out of trouble throughout. Finished 6 seconds ahead of P2 so absolutely thrilled with that!

 

[Nebuc72]

The wheel settings are honestly pretty confusing, the way they are explained is so unintuitive. I've mine set to 4/8 - I like the wheel to be quite light, which is what the torque setting changes, but the sensitivity one confuses me a bit because I don't actually know what it changes, if it's just how much feedback you get why would you ever have it set low like some people recommend?
I have a TGT-2 and near enough every thread I see says "5/1 is the best setting" but that just means there's no feedback from the road??

I get like weaker wheels will have clipping at higher settings, but even then - why is there no way for us to actually see the FFB levels to identify clipping or not? Bizarre as anything.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hey you Daily Race B guys - Do you think this is a "speed slot"? What I mean is, it seems to fling me around the corner if I hit it right. Am I imagining it, or does it really do that?

 

[Jules_r]

Hey you Daily Race B guys - Do you think this is a "speed slot"? What I mean is, it seems to fling me around the corner if I hit it right. Am I imagining it, or does it really do that?

Yep.... it does really do that for sure! It's like the back end of the car gets light, kicks out a fraction than grips again and goes!

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Hey you Daily Race B guys - Do you think this is a "speed slot"? What I mean is, it seems to fling me around the corner if I hit it right. Am I imagining it, or does it really do that?

I'm by no means an authority on the subject, but it seems to me PD has attempted to model in a "rubbered in track". If you've ever watched a road race, the commentators may mention a thing they call a "green track". This label is not in reference to its composition so much as the condition of the track surface when it hasn't been raced on or it's rained heavily and washed much of the rubber away, that previous cars have laid down. Rubber sticks to rubber much better than asphalt or concrete, especially when it's warm. Drag racers do burn outs as much to lay hot rubber from the launch as they do to warm up the rear tires. That's one of the reasons, over the course of an F1 weekend, everyone gets faster. The track gets "rubbered in" from practice sessions and qualifying is when they let it all hang out. At least when it's dry anyway. Get off the "rubbered in" track and the loss of traction is profound and in some cases catastrophic. Conversely, wet rubber is really bad for traction so you'll see many drivers not using the usual racing line through turns when it's wet.

 

[Giz WCR-666]

its the inertia pushing the car down as it rides the slight dip it the road giving you extra downward force & grip to be able to mash the throttle, same as Turn 1 exit at Brands..

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Uploaded my new best QT on Daily Race B - 1:24.942, in that Alfa with assists turned on. You can get it from Showcase, search for Replay, keyword gtp7. Save it to your collection and you can race against the ghost. If you care.

 

[Stilva]

Absolutely brutal races tonight at Sardenga for me. My luck ran out big time and I was not having a good time tonight. I did get my qualifying down to a 1:25.2XX with an optimal of 1:25 flat. Very pumped about that time at least

So I'm back into the stacked lobbies again my my time doesn't mean anything as I'm in P15 to start. I did briefly get to P8, but I had a .5 second off track penalty to serve so it wasn't going to last. I had an incident where either I turned down into another driver, they drove into me, or we both got to the same place at the same time the apex 90 degree left hand turn before the sweeping downhill turn. It was a racing incident but still annoying as 4 drivers got by me. I serve the penalty and on the end of that lap I botch the final turn so bad I damage the car by hitting the wall. I finish P15 one this nightmare of a race is over. My fault with the penalty and hitting the wall so I can't be mad at anybody in particular.

It gets worse in race 2. Basically the same lobby, but with me in P12 to start. On the second lap, I get into the back of a car that almost stopped in the middle of turn 1 due to a car that made a move on the inside of them. There was room for both of them to make it so I have no idea why they did that. I was already committed to my turn behind them and had no where to go. I get a 4 SECOND PENALTY FOR SOMETHING I COULDN'T AVOID!!!!!!!! Decided not to quit for some race condition practice and I finish dead last in P16. But, the results screen said I finished P14? Huh?

I guess 2 drivers disconnected or quit before the race was final. There were about 45 seconds after I crossed the line until the results screen showed up. I decided enough was enough and I turned the PS5 off and walk away for the night. Frustrating night for me.

 

[TheOneDonJuan]

Collectively have gotten 10th, 11th, 10th and 9th at DT. Drivers trying to get cute at turn 1 lap 1. Like....why man. Why are you trying to make moves here. We're all going to kill ourselves here anyway.

Might be done for the week. Took a guy out earlier who tried to take me out and all in all....I don't think this one's for me.

 

[Bullwinkle]

The wheel settings are honestly pretty confusing, the way they are explained is so unintuitive. I've mine set to 4/8 - I like the wheel to be quite light, which is what the torque setting changes, but the sensitivity one confuses me a bit because I don't actually know what it changes, if it's just how much feedback you get why would you ever have it set low like some people recommend?
I have a TGT-2 and near enough every thread I see says "5/1 is the best setting" but that just means there's no feedback from the road??

I get like weaker wheels will have clipping at higher settings, but even then - why is there no way for us to actually see the FFB levels to identify clipping or not? Bizarre as anything.

The sensitivity setting baffles me. I think it is the opposite of what we think, though, and it has more to do with how sensitive the steering input is from the wheel when it’s wobbling, etc. A high setting means every little bump in the road affects the steering, not it in terms of feedback you feel but in terms of how the steering input is affected. I think a low sensitivity means you can run over stuff and if you can’t hold the wheel perfectly steady the car won’t wobble.

But I may be wrong. I’ve been trying to figure this out forever and nobody seems to have a definitive answer.

 

[TheNormsk]

I probably won’t be online racing for a day or so. Just installed the Ricmotech load cell upgrade in my G29 pedals and well.. now I can’t drive 🤣.

On Sardegna B after being in the 1:40s to start with 😲 I’ve beginning to get the hang of it and I’m back in the mid 1:26s. But my consistency is shot.

For anyone thinking about converting, the new pedal throw is very short and that is good. It’s easy to get 100% breaking but it now takes a lot more pressure for partial braking as well. Where I was going for 60-70% braking before it’s now like 25-30% braking, so I’m under braking in more delicate sections. I’m having to retrain my trail braking.

In the long term I see this as being good as I will be able to finesse the brakes more as I get used to it. I’m beginning to get there….

For now I just have to remember that what feels like 80-90% braking is really only about 50%.

Oh and there is no travel before the load cell activates. In fact I had to adjust the dead zone to 5% as it registers around 3.5% braking without touching the pedal. This does mean it’s very quick to engage.

Anyway that was tangential to daily racing, though I am using Sardegna B to retrain myself. 🤘

 

[D Quick]

Hey you Daily Race B guys - Do you think this is a "speed slot"? What I mean is, it seems to fling me around the corner if I hit it right. Am I imagining it, or does it really do that?

It looks like you accelerated right when your car was compressing down and got a good bite of traction. That was a great line. I try to hit it like that but always turn to late and float higher up the curve.