GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[Talon16]

I don't want to sound arrogant... However, I do consider myself to be an intelligent person. That being said, I would be absolutely thrilled if someone was to enlighten me on the following scenario:

In what world, even universe, does one start in P15 (no qualy time set) and finish the race in P10, with genuine overtakes, no contact whatsoever or penalties and yet, LOSE points in DR?!?!?!

View attachment 1338378 View attachment 1338379

Would love to know if I am losing my mind or the world has actually gone crazy?! Thanks and love! Regards, me!

Your starting position and how many people you pass matter naught in the DR calculation. The only thing that matters is where you finish retaliative to the your DR vs the DR of people who finish ahead and behind.

Famine summed it up nicely (yes, I saved this quote):

"DR is solely determined by your race finishing positions: a straightforward exchange of points between you, the people you beat, and people who beat you, scaled according to the relative difference in points between you. "

The whole thing where someone was trying to argue with him regarding starting position vs finishing position:

Spoiler

But you do. The further ahead they are of you in terms of raw DR points, the less you lose, but you do lose points to them unless the difference is
enormous.

For every car you finish in front of you gain: 80 - ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

For every car you finish behind, you lose: 80 + ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

As you can see, unless the difference is in excess of 39,500pt, you'll lose at least one point.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.

 

[Kriptical]

I don't want to sound arrogant... However, I do consider myself to be an intelligent person. That being said, I would be absolutely thrilled if someone was to enlighten me on the following scenario:

In what world, even universe, does one start in P15 (no qualy time set) and finish the race in P10, with genuine overtakes, no contact whatsoever or penalties and yet, LOSE points in DR?!?!?!

View attachment 1338378 View attachment 1338379

Would love to know if I am losing my mind or the world has actually gone crazy?! Thanks and love! Regards, me!

Top 8 gets points from the bottom 8. Nothing else matters.

 

[Talon16]

Top 8 gets points from the bottom 8. Nothing else matters.

Negative, ghostrider.

 

[Famine]

Top 8 gets points from the bottom 8.

If everyone has exactly the same DR at the start of the race, yes. Otherwise no.

The difference in starting DR rating is very much an else that very much matters.

 

[Nebuc72]

I don't want to sound arrogant... However, I do consider myself to be an intelligent person. That being said, I would be absolutely thrilled if someone was to enlighten me on the following scenario:

In what world, even universe, does one start in P15 (no qualy time set) and finish the race in P10, with genuine overtakes, no contact whatsoever or penalties and yet, LOSE points in DR?!?!?!

View attachment 1338378 View attachment 1338379

Would love to know if I am losing my mind or the world has actually gone crazy?! Thanks and love! Regards, me!

Well, 9 people finished ahead of you and only 6 behind you.

So you lost DR to 9 people, and gained DR from 6 people. Net loss. Only finishing position matters.

 

[cyirush]

Your starting position and how many people you pass matter naught in the DR calculation. The only thing that matters is where you finish retaliative to the your DR vs the DR of people who finish ahead and behind.

Famine summed it up nicely (yes, I saved this quote):

"DR is solely determined by your race finishing positions: a straightforward exchange of points between you, the people you beat, and people who beat you, scaled according to the relative difference in points between you. "

The whole thing where someone was trying to argue with him regarding starting position vs finishing position:

Spoiler

But you do. The further ahead they are of you in terms of raw DR points, the less you lose, but you do lose points to them unless the difference is
enormous.

For every car you finish in front of you gain: 80 - ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

For every car you finish behind, you lose: 80 + ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

As you can see, unless the difference is in excess of 39,500pt, you'll lose at least one point.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.

But Famine’s explanation is incomplete if he’s saying it’s the sole criteria. I was in mixed A and B lobbies at Laguna and gained DR while some of the A drivers who finished ahead of me lost it (presumably b/c the game deemed that I had done better relative to my ranking than the A driver).

 

[Famine]

But Famine’s explanation is incomplete if he’s saying it’s the sole criteria.

Aside from the fact I don't give a sole criterion - as you'll note from the post you quoted @Talon16 quoting, what do you believe is missing?

You lose DR to everyone who beats you. You gain it from everyone you beat. How much you gain/lose depends on the difference in starting DR between you. That's it.

 

[Kriptical]

If everyone has exactly the same DR at the start of the race, yes. Otherwise no.

The difference in starting DR rating is very much an else that very much matters.

Indeed.

Not sure what compelled me to try answering a dr question.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

But Famine’s explanation is incomplete if he’s saying it’s the sole criteria. I was in mixed A and B lobbies at Laguna and gained DR while some of the A drivers who finished ahead of me lost it (presumably b/c the game deemed that I had done better relative to my ranking than the A driver).

Trust me - if @Famine says it, you can take it to the bank. I spent way too much time banging my head against the brick wall of knowledge that is @Famine.

 

[cyirush]

Trust me - if @Famine says it, you can take it to the bank. I spent way too much time banging my head against the brick wall of knowledge that is @Famine.

Just reporting how I’ve seen DR move in lobbies I’ve been in, and it hasn’t solely been based on finishing position.

Not sure why he’d know how DR is calculated given that PD is far from transparent about it.

Edit - just realized I posted twice on the same subject within minutes! Unfortunately I have no idea how to merge my posts. Apologies to the mods for this transgression.

 

[Bojador]

Your starting position and how many people you pass matter naught in the DR calculation. The only thing that matters is where you finish retaliative to the your DR vs the DR of people who finish ahead and behind.

Famine summed it up nicely (yes, I saved this quote):

"DR is solely determined by your race finishing positions: a straightforward exchange of points between you, the people you beat, and people who beat you, scaled according to the relative difference in points between you. "

The whole thing where someone was trying to argue with him regarding starting position vs finishing position:

Spoiler

But you do. The further ahead they are of you in terms of raw DR points, the less you lose, but you do lose points to them unless the difference is
enormous.

For every car you finish in front of you gain: 80 - ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

For every car you finish behind, you lose: 80 + ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

As you can see, unless the difference is in excess of 39,500pt, you'll lose at least one point.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.

And what about the difference between race length for Daily B and C? Does it matter, or should one just do Daily B since you will finish more races in the same amount of time to grind DR?

 

[NickGuy]

Hadn't played any GT since the tomahawk glitch, been enjoying life on career mode in the F1 games, my true love (and that game has better tracks). Got a cinco, felt nostalgic and reinstalled. Did some laps around Brazil in a NSX and forgot how fun it was to throw regular cars around tracks. Okay, let's see what the daily races are, I enjoyed those...oh, Monza Gr. 3? Cool! Picked my favorite gr.3, the McLaren, and Quali'd 2nd in my first lobby, not bad... got spun in a lap 2 incident, okay, whatever, focus on nailing corners and climbed back up to 4th. Pretty fun, let's go again and this time avoid any major mistakes....

Then I quickly was reminded how much I hate racing online in this game, I can't trust that when side by side with someone, they won't spin or punt me when I pass or out-brake them, and the penalty system is such a bad joke. Bad taste in my mouth right now, very salty, seethe/cope/mald etc

 

[Famine]

Just reporting how I’ve seen DR move in lobbies I’ve been in, and it hasn’t solely been based on finishing position.

You appear to be missing the bit after the colon, and in particular the final part of it: "a straightforward exchange of points between you, the people you beat, and people who beat you, scaled according to the relative difference in points between you."

Here's a rough example of how the exact situation you described - as a B in a mixed B/A lobby gaining points while being behind As who lose points - might occur, using the exact formulae given in the post you say is not a complete explanation:

Not sure why he’d know how DR is calculated given that PD is far from transparent about it.

He knows because PD is only opaque about it now. In GTS the site was much less locked-down with the data it retrieved - you could pull a precise DR value out of it for any profile.

just realized I posted twice on the same subject within minutes! Unfortunately I have no idea how to merge my posts.

You don't; you simply use the Multiquote feature in the first place - although your second post was blank for some reason.

 

[Talon16]

Just reporting how I’ve seen DR move in lobbies I’ve been in, and it hasn’t solely been based on finishing position.

Not sure why he’d know how DR is calculated given that PD is far from transparent about it.

Edit - just realized I posted twice on the same subject within minutes! Unfortunately I have no idea how to merge my posts. Apologies to the mods for this transgression.

As Famine already said, the last bit of the original explanation is key. One could finish P15 and gain DR. If an E rated driver ends up in a lobby with all A+ drivers, and finishes P15, that E rated driver will [likely, as I've not done the math but work with me here] gain DR as the 14 A+ driver who finished ahead of the E will take so little DR from the E due to the scaling of the delta between them, that the DR gained by the E from the A+ driver he/she beats will be greater than the DR lost from the 14 A+ drivers who beat him/her.

This is atypical but I am just using an extreme example as it may help visualize. A much more real example is on the previous page where in Techno's race, P9 gained DR. So there's a visual of the top eight gain and the bottom eight lose isn't accurate.

It's similar to Elo ratings in chess. Though I do not pretend to understand the math behind it, if you're a 2,000 rated player going up against a 1,000 rated player, as the 2,000 rated player the amount of Elo you stand to lose is much greater than the amount you could gain because post game rating exchange is "scaled according to the relative difference in points between you."

And what about the difference between race length for Daily B and C? Does it matter, or should one just do Daily B since you will finish more races in the same amount of time to grind DR?

For DR it does not matter the length of the race. For SR, I am getting a bit out of my lane here, but I believe it does since SR is 'calculated' per sector...? Or at least multiple times per lap and you're judged on things like the ability to stay on the track, not hit walls, not get pens, not hit other cars, etc. Thus, the more laps in a race the more opportunity to gain/lose SR.

I believe that is how it works in general, but if anyone knows for sure then please correct me if I misspoke.

 

[Bojador]

For sure SR benefits from longer races because of what you said. I've heard people say DR is affected too, but I don't see how based on what I know from the DR calculations.

 

[Chris30]

Durn, my DR bar is empty at a D so that means I'm at rock bottom. I did slack off big time last week, I only did 5 races at LS. I don't understand it, my bar was 3/4th full 2 weeks ago and then after several more races at TM, Sardegna and LS it dropped back down, why? This is ridiculous how PD calculates the SR and DR. The drivers that beat you take away some of your points which I don't think is fair. The only way to increase DR and SR significantly is to beat 8-10 drivers in each race and maybe do that in 10-15 races in a row.

 

[Nebuc72]

This is ridiculous how PD calculates the SR and DR. The drivers that beat you take away some of your points which I don't think is fair. The only way to increase DR and SR significantly is to beat 8-10 drivers in each race and maybe do that in 10-15 races in a row.

How else would you do it? It's just a matchmaking tool. If you are coming near last all the time, you lose DR to put you into a slower lobby.
You aren't meant to gain constantly.

 

[Chris30]

I know, I try to be positive and not complain so much but it's hard. I mean it's not fun coming in last or close to last most of the time. Plus the races I do have good starting positions 1-5th, some nut always has to either ram, bump or get me sidetracked from racing which cause me to crash or hit the wall. It makes me mad, and then a majority of the time they end up getting away with it. I can't imagine if I was in a full lobby of A/A+ drivers. All carnage would break loose on the track.

 

[mellofello9]

Yeah, Monza feels 'different' this week, that's for sure. Dr Diff to the rescue!!! 🤣

Was running completely stock but was a bit more than .5 sec off the previous week. Not sure what environmental is causing it but the brake markers definitely needed to be moved downfield. First run through T1 and my standard brake/turn-in landed me about 20' early to the party. Even after I figured that out, times were still off. I didn't feel like tuning, tho...

Went with 9/13/11 on the diff and that helped. After burning in some laps I wanted to change the balance JUST A BIT, so went with +1 on the front bar (FSB = 6 / RSB = 5). That got me back to where I was the week before.👍

Ran two races last night. First up was a P4 start with a P6 finish. Should've been P4 finish but my dumb-ass self decided to land a penalty through Ascari on the last lap. Still, woo-hoo!! Next one was a P3 start and a P13 finish. Very un-woo-hoo. Time for bed.😁

Good luck out there. With only five laps to chase glory, folks be chasin' HARD! Angry, too, apparently.

 

[Talon16]

Durn, my DR bar is empty at a D so that means I'm at rock bottom. I did slack off big time last week, I only did 5 races at LS. I don't understand it, my bar was 3/4th full 2 weeks ago and then after several more races at TM, Sardegna and LS it dropped back down, why? This is ridiculous how PD calculates the SR and DR. The drivers that beat you take away some of your points which I don't think is fair. The only way to increase DR and SR significantly is to beat 8-10 drivers in each race and maybe do that in 10-15 races in a row.

I mean, it's easy to get your head wrapped up in wanting to achieve a certain DR... that's human nature and a goal to strive for.

But if you think of it from the other direction, the game is just trying to put you in lobbies with similarly skilled players... nothing more or nothing less. If you're constantly finishing towards the bottom then you're in a split that's above your skill level. There's nothing wrong with that. But by taking DR away when finishing in a low position - which is how it should be - you will then be placed in lobbies with people who are of a more similar skill-set.

 

[sturk0167]

Not sure why he’d know how DR is calculated given that PD is far from transparent about it.

It's because during GT Sport, KudosPrime had all the points info available for each player.
After each race, we could see exactly how many points we gained or lost. People just did the math to figure out PD's formula.
We've not seen any evidence that the scoring has changed.

In GT7, PD made efforts to better hide our stats from us. They never wanted us to have that info, but some computer geniuses figured out how pull that data from their site. If anyone has figured out how to get the individual driver stats from GT7 (possibly @Nenkai, or the Hungarians that run the GTSH-Rank site), they aren't sharing it like @Milouse did with his KudosPrime site.

 

[Talon16]

It's because during GT Sport, KudosPrime had all the points info available for each player.
After each race, we could see exactly how many points we gained or lost. People just did the math to figure out PD's formula.
We've not seen any evidence that the scoring has changed.

In GT7, PD made efforts to better hide our stats from us. They never wanted us to have that info, but some computer geniuses figured out how pull that data from their site. If anyone has figured out how to get the individual driver stats from GT7 (possibly @Nenkai, or the Hungarians that run the GTSH-Rank site), they aren't sharing it like @Milouse did with his KudosPrime site.

@GrumpyOldMan has that GranTacker which seems to do a pretty good job. I've not used it but it looks impressive.

Sometimes I almost wish they'd show us our score but get rid of the grading. Rather than E to A+, everyone have the bar that goes from 0-100k points or whatever... and it fills up X% amount sliding up and down accordingly, and that's that. That may take some of the pressure off of trying to hit/maintain a certain rank. Then again, might take some of the fun out of it as well.

Speaking of Sport mode, jumped in a ranked Daily for the first time in weeks. Monza from the back. Oh the humanity! Five cars went off before curva-grande lap one.

 

[Fezzik]

Off-topic to the DR discussions, but I'm loving the increased Vette representation since the BoP update.

 

[Chris30]

I think DR should be calculated a different way based on what cars you use and how well you perform in a race instead of going by how many people beat you. But it's the way PD designed it, so I can't do anything about it. I just can't believe my DR plummeted that fast in a week.

It doesn't matter what equipment I use, I still have to think hard and put the work in by studying certain replays for the QT sessions.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

The drivers that beat you take away some of your points which I don't think is fair.

I completely understand your frustration. But the reason it does that is to balance your DR relative to others. So in my case (and I'm using my real DR but it has nothing to do with bragging - just merely illustrating my point), I drive really well most of the time in B lobbies, and most of the time my DR is high B. Every once in a while, I advance to A, and I almost never drive as well against other A drivers. So eventually I get knocked back down to B, where I belong.

 

[Chris30]

Well thank you guys for the support as I hardly get any from my family, the only ones in my family who are supportive are my mom, grandpa, aunts and uncles. However I'm on my own here in the Gran Turismo world. I have to try to figure out each track and abuse the track limits wherever possible.

Yes, people would have to qualify 20 times as hard in order to outsmart the aliens and A+ drivers.

 

[Famine]

how well you perform in a race instead of going by how many people beat you

Isn't how well you perform in a race defined by how many people you beat and how many beat you?

DR isn’t points you score for playing, it's a rating of how you perform compared to other players. If you're losing a lot to a lot of people, your DR falls. Pretty simple.

If you want to improve your DR, set good qualifying times to start higher up the grid, then race and finish well.

 

[sturk0167]

Last night after work, I tried the new A race at BMB.
At the very first turn I found out what it means when the race regulations say that wall contact is set to "Strict".

 

[Chris30]

Last night after work, I tried the new A race at BMB.
At the very first turn I found out what it means when the race regulations say that wall contact is set to "Strict".

What a reaction in a bad way. Ouch, that had to hurt your SR.

 

[sturk0167]

What a reaction in a bad way. Ouch, that had to hurt your SR.

Believe it, or not, I got a Clean Race Bonus.
The game knew I got pushed into those two walls, so my SR was unharmed.
I assume the car that hit me, lost some SR points. But, I don't think he hit me intentionally.

If someone who doesn't care about SR wants to just push other cars into walls, he'll probably get a nice finish.