At this point it doesn't even bother me that much that this car is perceived as uncool...
It's funny you should say that it doesn't bother you, since you have pretty much exploded in this thread, as seen below.
Does it really surprise you though? When you consider all the other cars that people consider to be cool do you really think that a:
plagued with electrical and mechanical problems, a slushbox transmission (and don't even tell me the manual isn't a slushbox because it's a manual) that blatantly sucks, can take no amount of real power, terrible handling, has a terrible chassis design with way too many flaws, and several ball-less engines designed to take the average American back and forth to work every day for a few years until they can afford a better car can possibly be percieved as cool, especially given the crowd that typically drives this pile of "car" (can it even be called a car?) every day. This car is a beginner car to teach your kid to drive and take yourself places if you are broke.
Because being broke is so cool. There is a reason why these cars sell so cheap on Craiglist...because no one wants them, and because they are heaps of wasted steel.
My problem comes with how it's poised to come in signigicantly less cool than the 84-87 Civic Si that just finished polling.
Maybe it has a following because of it's potential? Unlike this car, where if you do anything to it, you risk blowing it up or having a wheel fall off going down the road at highway speeds because a faulty ball joint gave out.
I mean, think of it. By compact standards, this car is built beefy
No, it's not. Nothing about it is "beefy". Nada. Zilch. Zippo.
N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
with 5-lug wheels and a V6 engine.
5 lug wheels isn't beefy. In fact, it's pretty standard across the board. If you want beefy, start looking 6 lugs and up.
A powerless V6 that disintegrates over time. The only somewhat redeeming factor is that it has ties to a better performance engine. That's it.
The interior has some hard plastic, but it isn't bad plastic, you have to rank on it in extremely unusual ways to realize it's not made out of Chuck Norris and attatched with whatever holds stubborn Legos together.
Any 90's GM piece of turd has 🤬 plastic, everyone knows that.
Altogether an extremely tough and sturdy small car
Extremely tough and sturdy small car? If that was true then why do I need to buy subframe connectors to keep the chassis from cracking or shaking or having massive wheelhop if I take a tight turn at 65mph? Do they even make them for this car? I highly doubt it, and for good reason, it's not a performance car, it's not a good car, and it's certainly not a cool car. Not to mention years of abuse...I doubt this car could see over 300k before you'd have some serious issues to deal with. Not to mention I'd almost bet my
Caravan would kick it's ass around a track, and it's an automatic!
with a little something extra for those who care to notice.
Yes because a GM "economy" crap box has a little something extra to offer...I'd rather ride my three wheeler to work every day and risk a daily ticket, because at least I know that's somewhat reliable and the fines are probably cheaper than maintenance on something like this. Probably accelerates faster too.
Not to mention the fact that over 3/4's of these turds didn't even come with "the biggest, baddest V6 GM ever made".
Now how is that less cool than some weak little Honda with an engine smaller than some soda bottles?
Because the weak little Honda with a smaller engine than some soda bottles can actually be tracked without breaking into a million pieces. Seriously, go do 150 hard laps around a race track in your Sunbird and tell me something doesn't break. Go on, do it.
By calling this car an "I4 FWD" you missed at least half the point.
As I said previously, most of these cars are I4's. Clearly no one ever gave a damn about it anyway.
The available larger engine,
No one wants a gas guzzling V6 with no horsepower. You can play the whole "it's just an economy car" game all day long, but in practice the thing gets horrendous gas mileage compared to some of the competition of the day. That is a proven fact, and anyone that wants to argue against that needs to get their head checked.
as well as overall "overbuilt" construction
That has got to be the funniest thing I have ever heard. Overbuilt construction? It's not a freaking tank for god sakes.
...place this car a cut above most of the segment, including that stupid Honda that somehow reached the high side of "meh" despite having a smaller engine with less power and a fairly ugly hatchback body.
No, it doesn't. It never has been a cut above the rest, ever, even when it came out. Period, end of discussion.
If it makes you feel any better I'd say the same thing about the Dodge Shadow. Or even the Ford Tempo, for that matter.
Yes, because any of those are soooo much better.
I never said I was going to bump the numbers. Also, it's the highest ranking I4 FF, not the highest ranking FF period. It just so happens that the highest ranking I4 FF is the highest ranking FF for some reason.
And that somehow means it's regarded as a cool car by the general public? Please. Half the people on this site haven't even voted in this poll.
I understand why the Mini got where it was. It was good at what it did, and it earned a lot of affection for that.
You don't say?
Unfortunately, "what it did" was be an underpowered, cute-looking box. Most of them would struggle to beat a Kei car.
And somehow this is so much better? I think you need a reality check.
Oh, and it's not cute.
It will fall where the numbers put it. It's probably getting a fairly honest rating, but a lot of other cars that don't belong above it are there anyway. That's what I'm getting at. Never said I was going to change any of the rankings.
Why were the numbers seemingly tampered with then? You are treading on thin ice....
As far as I know, none of the pre-BMW models ever came close to 100 HP in production form. I'm sure it has wonderful handling, if you can get it going fast enough to notice.
You don't need to be going 200 zillion miles an hour to notice good handling. I'm a die hard muscle car car, and even I know that.
When GM designed a car, they aren't so much apathetic towards fun as they are outright hostile towards anything resembling fun. The Sunbird is the penultimate expression of that design philosophy, hence the things I said about it. I hate it not just for what it does, but for what it is.
Fixed.
Oh, the irony.
Barely if at all. If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I was stating a fact - he seemed to care more about comfort and whatnot than about a his car's capabilities. My point is, why would you want a boring car, daily driver or not?
I'm pretty sure comfort ranks pretty high on someones list when buying a car, unless you are me.
And that somehow makes it better? Newsflash: No one cares.
I used it because it was a convenient example of a more-or-less-opposite design. Toyota, in addition to hating fun, prefers to focus on things like comfort and materials quality first, while GM did the engine first and didn't bother much with the rest.
Yet, you still praise this trash can like it's a gift from god.
I'm assuming both cars in question have been modified for some type of racing, which sort of ruins the comparison.
You are assuming wrong then, obviously.
I don't know, I'd have to find some results sheets from showroom-stock and improved-touring type races in the early- and mid- 1990's.
Good luck. Hint: There aren't any. But you can look anyways, might give you something to do.
I guess I just figured the Mini was at the level where a car will be slow no matter how light it is, barring out-and-out track cars like the Caterham. I'm not quite sure where that is, but 75 HP seems like a good cutoff.
And this car is fast?
Well, you gotta admit, the fact that an 84-87 Honda Civic Si, a car known for being sloooooooooooow despite being an Si and for being the predecessor of the official FnF-wannabe car, not only coming in higher than this but reaching the high side of Meh is pretty ridiculous.
No. Not really.
The 84-87 Civic is nowhere near cool. And it's not particularly fast either - in USDM form it had only 91 HP. The later Si models could vaguely be described as "fast" but the mid-80s model is pathetic.
And yet agian, this is somehow better because it has a choked out V6 as a "high end" option. Right....
Knight Rider is also not known for sane, normal fans. In fact we could probably just extend that to anyone who's a "fan" of a TV show.
"Hmmmm... let's see what the KR fanbase has come up with..."
*sees heated flame-war over KITT's top speed in Super Pursuit Mode*
"Srsly? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL"
Are we living in the same world?
The convertible perhaps. The coupe and sedan seem to be driven by pretty normal people.
I've never seen a teenage girl driving an 88-94 J-car that I remember.
That you know of. This is the kind of car a teen gets for graduation and tosses in 4 years when they can afford a real car.
But you knew that
)...
