GTP Online Racing Bureau (GTP ORB) Now Hiring!

[dylansan]

I asked that question because I was just wondering if you guys had moderator approval.

Basically I don't really see why you guys are coming up with this license system when the Division system of the WRS is already pretty much the same thing. As far as judging races I would think if there were some sort of problem with cheating or anything it should be brought up with a mod or something, not just decided by a group who have volunteered to be judges.

But maybe I'm just missing the point entirely.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I asked that question because I was just wondering if you guys had moderator approval.

Pretty sure they would have said something by now if it wasn't allowed.

 

[CAM]

This was aimed at other racing series outside of the WRS, that's what I think gatrs original premise was.

 

[hawkeye122]

This sounds like a good idea, and I would volunteer to be a examiner if we do the test system

 

[dylansan]

This was aimed at other racing series outside of the WRS, that's what I think gatrs original premise was.

Yes but why make up a whole new criteria when the WRS registry already keeps track of players skill levels and their PSN ids? Just make anyone who wants to participate register there. It's not like signing up there requires you to participate in the WRS. I would ask EDK, Sphinx, or Vaxen what they think about this idea. They know very well what goes into these things and how to make them run smoothly.

 

[Downhill Dino]

I'm still trying to grasp the concecpt of how to achieve a better license. I'm not sure how your getting to these tests to acquire the license. By wins in a series? Just by doing tests each day? I don't really get it.

 

[CAM]

I'm still trying to grasp the concecpt of how to achieve a better license. I'm not sure how your getting to these tests to acquire the license. By wins in a series? Just by doing tests each day? I don't really get it.

I think it'd be just like GT's testing system. Set X number of times to beat, with increasing difficulty, and there you are. With whatever else gatrs wants to add.

 

[JLawrence]

I like the idea for an initial license test as being a 1v1 with one of the board members or another licensee (higher rank) in a car that is say 400 or 450Pp and easy to drive around a track like Monza that isn't overly technical, but leaves room for good clean racing (I can honestly say I have had my best races in terms of bumper to bumper, close quarters racing there)

After that I don't have any ideas other than the championship positioning.

 

[CAM]

Yeah I'm just here for helping judge haha . And math help I suppose, I still think that was a pretty neat formula to pull out of my head .

 

[gogatrs]

The problem with going with experience is that the brand new people, that might be VERY good, can only compete in championships with other noobs.
What if we do a license system with Beginner, Amateur, Intermediate, Advanced, Professional. With the time trial and 1v1 race.
Then we can have a Super License where the requirement is to have a certain number of race wins.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Then we can have a Super License where the requirement is to have a certain number of race wins.

Or just base it off of wins entirely. And/or number of wins + time trial result.

 

[CAM]

Or just base it off of wins entirely. And/or number of wins + time trial result.

Yeah, I think it should just be one time trial and then do the thing with the counter and my formula with R1600's finishing spot system to find a drivers rank. This would be a good average to represent their ability, and would be a lot easier to monitor than administering 5 licenses. All it would require is race results being submitted to the spreadsheet manager (whoever does it) and using my formula just put the result in a running tally for each driver.

 

[gogatrs]

Yes, but then how do they get started off?
No matter how good they are, they won't be able to compete in the series' that require higher license ratings.
Which also means it's taking away racers from new series that are sometimes already struggling to get members.

 

[CAM]

Maybe races should just require a certain number of finishes of a certain level in R1600's template. You would then have series categorized in each of the five areas (requiring a certain number of finishes of the level before, i.e. an expert race would require X number of Professional finishes), along with some with no requirements for beginners. Here is his template. We already discussed how to combat rooms with less than 16 drivers as well.

1-3: Expert
4-6: Professional
7-9: Advanced
10-12: Novice
13-16: Rookie

 

[JLawrence]

I dunno. I'm still wondering if licenses to begin with are a feasible thing to implement. I mean say someone like Adrenaline, who is a hell of a driver, comes in down the road and decides to run one of our series, but hasn't done anything for a license, where do we put him? We know he's good, but we can't have a double standard and just give it to him immediately. Could this be done to where most series aren't affected by any kinda license, or even require one, then maybe at some point organize groups tailored to the guys who have shown they're stuff and whatnot? Like based on finishing position in a given series? We wouldn't be able to organize such a group to begin with, but later on after we've had a chance to settle in it could allow for your general race classes to be unaffected, but also give those who are the better drivers to compete in a group where they know they're matching up only against others at their level.

 

[CAM]

Wouldn't the system I just presented work for exactly what you just said? For the final results of a series it could count as 5 single race finishes in the spot they finished. I do agree with the waiting a few series for it though. I just think what I just said would eliminate the need for a "license" by keeping up with race finishes.

 

[Akmuq]

I'd say just do a WRS-style qualifier in somebody's lounge, with divisions which determine license and then a test to see if they can race cleanly with other drivers on track.

Also, this should probably be brought to the mods attention, as it's sort of a government run by separate people inside GTPlanet. I'm not sure if they would like that.

 

[CAM]

I'd say just do a WRS-style qualifier in somebody's lounge, with divisions which determine license and then a test to see if they can race cleanly with other drivers on track.

Also, this should probably be brought to the mods attention, as it's sort of a government run by separate people inside GTPlanet. I'm not sure if they would like that.

That sounds really difficult. It would be easy for one series (i.e. WRS), but this is supposed to be for multiple series, so you would need something easier to keep up with. And hopefully they'd back us up, I'm sure many of the mods' responsibilities inside WRS would deter them from this.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I dunno. I'm still wondering if licenses to begin with are a feasible thing to implement. I mean say someone like Adrenaline, who is a hell of a driver, comes in down the road and decides to run one of our series, but hasn't done anything for a license, where do we put him? We know he's good, but we can't have a double standard and just give it to him immediately. Could this be done to where most series aren't affected by any kinda license, or even require one, then maybe at some point organize groups tailored to the guys who have shown they're stuff and whatnot? Like based on finishing position in a given series? We wouldn't be able to organize such a group to begin with, but later on after we've had a chance to settle in it could allow for your general race classes to be unaffected, but also give those who are the better drivers to compete in a group where they know they're matching up only against others at their level.

Didn't I just say that?

Wouldn't the system I just presented work for exactly what you just said?

Yes.

Also, this should probably be brought to the mods attention, as it's sort of a government run by separate people inside GTPlanet. I'm not sure if they would like that.

I saw a moderator browsing the thread earlier and they didn't bother to post. So I'm guessing we're OK.

 

[CAM]

Okay, so mine and R1600's system (am I allowed to take partial credit for the points/counter system I contributed? ) has two votes. And it would only take one person to run, since all it is is keeping a tally based on race results. Perfect for a fledgling organization, we must remember not to try to do too much right off to start with.

 

[gogatrs]

How about if we do the five different levels based off the time trials and 1v1 races. And then you can have a bonus if you have the experience.
A certain number of race wins/participation for each level+the TT and 1v1 race.
So there's Beginner, Amateur, Intermediate, Advanced, and Proffesional Class A AND Class B.

The series director gets to choose which Class and license combo he wants to use.

 

[CAM]

My only concern with your idea is that the actual stewarding system will get out of hand once we start to expand. Imagine keeping up with time trial hotlaps, 1v1 race results, and license status for hundreds, if not thousands of drivers at some point? On top of that you'll still have to keep up with race results on top of all that with your proposition.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Sounds fine to me. 👍

 

[JLawrence]

Didn't I just say that?
.

So I may have missed that whilst skimming... lol

Anyways. Going back through and rereading I think my vote is also for Cam's suggestion.

 

[CAM]

I don't mean to sound mean gatrs, this is a fantastic idea, but I can't get the scheduling nightmare out of my head to fit in all of those hotlaps and races. But you started the thread, its your choice .

 

[Wardez]

It's easy guys. Since it seems like a lot of you don't get the idea of how we'd run the time trial.

As someone else assumed, yes an official sets up an online room, sets it to 5 laps with all the required settings and observes their run. People would only be able to try it once a day.

To solve the issue with drivers that are already known to be fast; we'd only subject them to the time trial since the race etiquette challenge is really just for people we DON'T know, same with the quiz. It's about weeding people out.

Also, there's no need for the race etiquette demo/challenge to be a race. It can easily be done in free run over two laps. We'll just have the official do a slow simple lead and follow effort where they through out a pre-determined set of racing scenarios and observe how the applicant handles them. So that would be something like - high speed draft overtake, high speed draft braking awareness (where the official has the applicant follow super closely, goes up to a slow corner super fast to test the applicant's skill at braking under higher speeds), lapping slower traffic, getting lapped by faster traffic, rolling start etc.

There should be a lot more but I can't think of them right now.

And all of this will be done using a car from the recommended online garage.


About the WRS thing someone brought up:
Yes WRS puts you in divisions based on a time trial covers more aspects than that and will be designed to not take as long to register for. It's designed for racing online, not hotlapping. Trust me, I've raced plenty of WRS participants through out the spectrum of skill levels and it is not a clear indicator of their true racing skill.

The time trial here will gauge consistency more than anything, and there will be different sets of car and track combinations that get more and more difficult as you try and raise your license level.

 

[gogatrs]

I don't mean to sound mean gatrs, this is a fantastic idea, but I can't get the scheduling nightmare out of my head to fit in all of those hotlaps and races. But you started the thread, its your choice .

If we had five to ten people "qualified" to do these, it couldn't be that difficult.

I think that initially it would be a lot, but the number of drivers we have to do this for would spike only when a new series is added.

Documenting that would simply be a pass or a fail.

 

[CodeRedR51]

As someone else assumed, yes an official sets up an online room, sets it to 5 laps with all the required settings and observes their run. People would only be able to try it once a day.

That's the problem though. Someone would have to be available all the time to set up those rooms.

 

[Wardez]

That's the problem though. Someone would have to be available all the time to set up those rooms.

Yeah and "someone" would be a pool of dozens of stewards. Not a problem.

My only concern with your idea is that the actual stewarding system will get out of hand once we start to expand. Imagine keeping up with time trial hotlaps, 1v1 race results, and license status for hundreds, if not thousands of drivers at some point? On top of that you'll still have to keep up with race results on top of all that with your proposition.

The race finish system you're suggesting will never work. There's too many holes and it's too vague when it comes down to it. Personally, right now, I don't care if you've ever won a race, or even a championship if I have no idea who you raced against. People could race against a few friends that are slow and become "champion" but that means nothing because we have no idea what the skill of the other players was. Yes, that might be feasible with our system down the line when there's accountable race wins with our system but then what good is it?

Point is we wouldn't be able to use it straight away because there's no way to validate real race wins from the past that didn't use our system.


@the thing you mentioned about volume. If more players come, more stewards will be trained to match them. Simple-as-that.

Btw, again with the 1v1 race thing. It's not going to be a race, but a series of challenges that everywhere steward will be trained to administer designed to test racing etiquette skill. If it was a test at full racing speed we'd need a farm of Stigs to be able to really give people a consistent challenge, and that's just not gonna happen.

The results tracking will be the easiest thing to keep track of. I'm starting to think your view of this thing is stunted. You've gotta see the bigger picture here.

 

[gogatrs]

That's the problem though. Someone would have to be available all the time to set up those rooms.

Not neccasarily.
We could require people to schedule these.
Or have a set time each evening that we allow "walk-ins."