GTP_Registry Discussion Thread

[EDK]

I suppose you also have to be careful about viewing replays before you set your own time? If you had a time to aim for then it might produce biased results?

We'll actually be posting your times in our private Mod forums as something to aim for.

But seriously, we have to have some integrity. We can also see weekly race submissions as they come in. Personally, I make a practice of never looking at submissions for a week I'm participating in until I submit my final lap. But I'll look as soon as I make that submission, and before the deadline.

Also what if the submitted lap or laps are dirty, what then? Are you given an extension to do a Quali??

If you make a mistake in your submission with a setting, you will be informed immediately by the Fetchbot and will be given the opportunity to submit a second time before the deadline.

If you break boundary or contact rules, we'll have to handle it case by case. But the simple solution to that problem is, don't break boundary or contact rules. Check your replay thoroughly. If you're not sure if it's clean, consider it dirty.

 

[Eggstor]

After running the qualifier tonite, I thought I would try the Renault's off road capabilities. Lots of room at Willow to explore the desert.

(remove the pics for room)

Looks like you got a flat on that last pic.

6 hours!?

I doubt I'll run that across the 2 in total

I could run it 60 hours and still be well back of the best. Oh well, at least I'll always have something to shoot for

 

[iainoflo85]

Either there's more grip at Willow at 7.30am as opposed to 1pm or I've just done my perfect lap already.

I'm not sure which, though when I look at my lap back that I did yesterday it does look pretty sweet, and I haven't been able to match it let alone beat it at all since then.

So I guess I'm calling it time with Willow for the moment. I might go back to it in a couple days and see if I can do any better, but for now I just can't get close.

 

[mistersafeway]

I've already said I'm not going to sandbag intentionally. It's certainly up for debate as to how long one has to spend on a combo before it is deemed to be representative and "their best" and how long one is "compelled" to commit to it in order to achieve this. I find that improvements decrease at an exponential rate, but improvements can still come after a week of running something solidly, maybe even longer after that. It depends.

My point which led to this whole discussion was that I believe you are going to get some drivers being misplaced due to this combo, even when they have given it their best. You may then find their weekly pace to be much higher than their submission. That's my opinion, and that's all it is.

I don't really want to get back into it all again now as it's a new day. New day, new mindset.

My opinion is that the GT5 qualifier could throw up weird results. I never submitted a TT result, so I won't be too specific (hopefully), but I ran two.

One was on racing tyres, I ran it an hour before the submission deadline and was all over the place, I invalidated my best lap in a way that cost me time and, if it had been clean, it would have been a mid D2 finish.

The other was on sport tyres and I ran for several hours... I would have ended up behind most of D3.

The GT6 qualifier will probably throw up at least a minor discrepancy either way, but as it's an average of two very different combos, we'll be looking at a much more balanced division structure, which can't be a bad thing.

 

[WRP001]

The gt5 qualifier used racing hard for both segments. There were many good reasons it was chosen, but the fact that it used nordschleife did create some bias as that track is sometimes not perfectly representative of a drivers general skill level. We have new tools now that opened up new options so I think the Gt6 qualifier is an improvement.

But nothing is perfect. Over time if a driver runs weekly time trials the handicap will converge to represent their true level of skill and also move with them as they improve.

The qualifier, even in an ideal world, is designed to be an unbiased estimator, and like any estimate always involves an error component. No getting around that no matter what is chosen.

 

[BanditKarter22]

We'll actually be posting your times in our private Mod forums as something to aim for.

But seriously, we have to have some integrity. We can also see weekly race submissions as they come in. Personally, I make a practice of never looking at submissions for a week I'm participating in until I submit my final lap. But I'll look as soon as I make that submission, and before the deadline.

Haha! That's fair enough, I was just curious, I guess it's on of the perks of being a mod

 

[WRP001]

Haha! That's fair enough, I was just curious, I guess it's on of the perks of being a mod

That perk has its price... the hundreds of hours working on this stuff (threads, combos, reviews, incidents, development, testing, etc.) rather than driving.

I have about 5 hours total driving in GT6 so far (seriously, that's it and over half of it testing qualifier combos) and well over 40 hours developing and working on everything behind the scenes. And I'm not the only one with that ratio.

 

[RalliArt/////]

• 
  

  Red and white rumbles and tarmac are legal track. No other surfaces are track.
  Cones are not to be touched.
  The inside of the white line is the track boundary, as detailed below.

If the tire's contact patch is not between the white lines but a section of the tire is vertically between the white lines, is this legal?

 

[Speedy6543]

If the tire's contact patch is not between the white lines but a section of the tire is vertically between the white lines, is this legal?

That's where 100% sure is for. I'm still trying to beat a time I made on Willow because of a front tyre being like you discribed.
All I'm saying is I won't submit that lap as it's just too close. I'm still using the ghost so I can hunt it but I'll throw away that particular best lap.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Maybe real life will allow me that time before the deadline, but being a father of two and working full time and planning a few ski trips after the new year (if this California drought ever ends), I doubt it.

There's never a drought in Oregon! Hood has some fun skiing/snowboarding 👍

And back on topic, I'll second what was said about putting in the same amount of time here as you would in a typical WRS week long event. I remember I left about .25 in GT5's qualifier but it would've taken me another 2-3 hours to get it and I'd already put in a little more time than I normally would have for a given week so I subbed, turned out alright.


Jerome

 

[ConRollins]

That's where 100% sure is for. I'm still trying to beat a time I made on Willow because of a front tyre being like you discribed.
All I'm saying is I won't submit that lap as it's just too close. I'm still using the ghost so I can hunt it but I'll throw away that particular best lap.

Isn't this a change from previous rules? It seems to me that in GT5, as long as a part of the tire was in contact with the white line, it was legal. Now if any part of the tire is over the outside of the line, it's an infraction. In fact, in a lot of cases the line meant nothing as long as there was tarmac on the other side of it.

If I might be so rude in asking, why the change?

 

[Gravitron]

Because the inside of the white line is the only definite marker at Willow. Outside of that, there are a lot of grey areas as the white line gets faded, and the edge between tarmac and dirt is sometimes blurred with dusty dirt.

Yes, it's a change, but it's track-specific.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

6 hours!?

I doubt I'll run that across the 2 in total

Yea, and I'm not done yet. Unlike some people here, I'm putting an honest effort into these and not just half-assing it, just as I do the regular events. I'm going to take the whole amount of time allotted to put in the best effort I can and let the chips fall where they may. Isn't that how its supposed to be done?

 

[Dynamite_Dave]

Thats it!!! *BANGS HEAD ON STEERING WHEEL* Im nothing without my SRF!!

 

[JoostBaksteen]

Yea, and I'm not done yet. Unlike some people here, I'm putting an honest effort into these and not just half-assing it, just as I do the regular events. I'm going to take the whole amount of time allotted to put in the best effort I can and let the chips fall where they may. Isn't that how its supposed to be done?

Jup, that's how I roll... but I need to find time to qualify before the deadline, because just like Tim I haven't had much time to put in GT6, I've only busy getting the leaderboard ready.

 

[EDK]

Isn't this a change from previous rules? It seems to me that in GT5, as long as a part of the tire was in contact with the white line, it was legal. Now if any part of the tire is over the outside of the line, it's an infraction. In fact, in a lot of cases the line meant nothing as long as there was tarmac on the other side of it.

If I might be so rude in asking, why the change?

We had many, track specific rules on GT5 for the weekly events as well. It's just that the qualifier was self enforcing, since it was a special event. If you cut, you would not be able to save your run, as the game stopped your progress immediately. So we did not need to do a whole bunch of boundary clarifications like we're needing to for these events.

And, if I might be so rude as to ask. Why is it that everyone insists on stretching the boundary rules to the absolute maximum, within a millimeter of their life?

We've given you 3 weeks - Get an obviously clean run that's representative of your ability. No need to be dipping 2.49 wheels off on every corner.

 

[ConRollins]

Because the inside of the white line is the only definite marker at Willow. Outside of that, there are a lot of grey areas as the white line gets faded, and the edge between tarmac and dirt is sometimes blurred with dusty dirt.

Yes, it's a change, but it's track-specific.

Thanks for the quick reply Lucas.

Edited to remove remarks.

We had many, track specific rules on GT5 for the weekly events as well. It's just that the qualifier was self enforcing, since it was a special event. If you cut, you would not be able to save your run, as the game stopped your progress immediately. So we did not need to do a whole bunch of boundary clarifications like we're needing to for these events.

And, if I might be so rude as to ask. Why is it that everyone insists on stretching the boundary rules to the absolute maximum, within a millimeter of their life?

We've given you 3 weeks - Get an obviously clean run that's representative of your ability. No need to be dipping 2.49 wheels off on every corner.

1. Thank you for your reply Kevin.

2. I hadn't realized that everyone was insisting on stretching the boundary rules to the absolute maximum, within a millimeter of their life. Hell, that must be the European drivers. Over here, we stretch them to within inches of our lives.

3. If going fast means dipping 2.99 wheels of on every corner, then that's what needs to be done, period! I am not doing this as a leisurely drive around the desert, this is a competition and that means taking it to the limit.

This is winter. There are a lot of skiing competitions going on right now. I suggest you watch a few slalom competitions and count how many skiers don't put their shoulders, elbows, knees, and other body parts into the course markers as they round them. Getting as close to the edge without going over it is the fastest way down the hill. Same as racing Kevin (which you know, as a bomber driver).

As a dictator, you need to learn to show a little compassion to your subjects. Just as other mods have indicated to other drivers: if you aren't having fun, maybe you should do something else. I'm still having fun, are you?

(Sorry for the double post, I can't figure out how to delete this and/or combine it with the above.)

 

[WRP001]

This is winter. There are a lot of skiing competitions going on right now. I suggest you watch a few slalom competitions and count how many skiers don't put their shoulders, elbows, knees, and other body parts into the course markers as they round them. Getting as close to the edge without going over it is the fastest way down the hill. Same as racing Kevin (which you know, as a bomber driver).

Not a perfect analogy. If they miss and put a ski on the wrong side of the stick they don't need a replay and don't take an hour of life away from an admin trying to get a still to see if it's clean or not. They catch their ski and they are done. Hence, although they often lean over and hit the gates, they don't often touch the gate with their skis. Like this see:

We're not asking you not to hit the gate with your shoulder, elbow or other body part, just don't put the front of your ski on the pole hoping to come out on the right site.

 

[Vagabond]

3. If going fast means dipping 2.99 wheels of on every corner, then that's what needs to be done, period! I am not doing this as a leisurely drive around the desert, this is a competition and that means taking it to the limit.

There are different views on what taking it to the limit involves though Ron. Every year in Monaco, Felipe Massa gets warned for cutting the kerbs too much. No one else does and yet F1 drivers are well known for pushing the limits.... his personal view is obviously skewed in favour of testing the limits more than everyone else. It should never be the majority view should it?

I don't presume to speak for Kevin but I assume his enjoyment level must be quite high since he's run this series almost single handedly for 4 years. In that time, I'm sure his patience has been tested to the white line and beyond.

 

[Dynamite_Dave]

There are different views on what taking it to the limit involves though Ron. Every year in Monaco, Felipe Massa gets warned for cutting the kerbs too much. No one else does and yet F1 drivers are well known for pushing the limits.... his personal view is obviously skewed in favour of testing the limits more than everyone else. It should never be the majority view should it?

I don't presume to speak for Kevin but I assume his enjoyment level must be quite high since he's run this series almost single handedly for 4 years. In that time, I'm sure his patience has been tested to the white line and beyond.

OK say i send my replay and by controversy its classed as unclean, should i keep a 2nd best lap as a backup?

 

[Vagabond]

OK say i send my reply and by controversy its classed as unclean, should i keep a 2nd best lap as a backup?

Well firstly, we sincerely hope everyone checks their replay thoroughly before submitting. In the event it is discovered to be dirty, your submitted time will be DQd and you will have to submit again when the qualifier is re-opened (it will be closed for a few weeks after the initial run to give us time to process submissions and organise the registry.)

 

[Dynamite_Dave]

Well firstly, we sincerely hope everyone checks their replay thoroughly before submitting. In the event it is discovered to be dirty, your submitted time will be DQd and you will have to submit again when the qualifier is re-opened (it will be closed for a few weeks after the initial run to give us time to process submissions and organise the registry.)

But as above doesnt matter if the person checks their replay they still may see it as fair/clean. This is the thin line here where someone gets disqualified and gets a shadow stuck over their name just cos others think differently

 

[ConRollins]

Guys, I appreciate the responses. Just plain talk with relevant points. No jabs, no derogatory remarks, just to the point.
Thanks.

 

[Vagabond]

But as above doesnt matter if the person checks their replay they still may see it as fair/clean. This is the thin line here where someone gets disqualified and gets a shadow stuck over their name just cos others think differently

No, the boundary is quite clear, its not a point of view - if you dance on the line, you're taking a chance you don't need to. I've run many laps of these tracks with a variety of cars and there's no need to push the limit that much anyway.

 

[Stotty]

Yea, and I'm not done yet. Unlike some people here, I'm putting an honest effort into these and not just half-assing it, just as I do the regular events. I'm going to take the whole amount of time allotted to put in the best effort I can and let the chips fall where they may. Isn't that how its supposed to be done?

I wouldn't have 6 hours to invest in a weekly tt... Lucky if I can find a few hours to run in a normal week between work and other stuff, so running stupid amounts of time on the qualifier will just see me in too high a division (like gt5 - I'm not a d1g driver).

Of course if I like a combo i'll spend more time on it purely because it's enjoyable. If not, I'll just run it until I've had enough.

 

[AspecBob]

Well firstly, we sincerely hope everyone checks their replay thoroughly before submitting. In the event it is discovered to be dirty, your submitted time will be DQd and you will have to submit again when the qualifier is re-opened (it will be closed for a few weeks after the initial run to give us time to process submissions and organise the registry.)

Oh, that's a relief! I thought if you were DQd, that was it, you had to wait for GT7... Even if I intend to thoroughly check my replay before submitting it, and making sure there are no close calls to be made, I was getting a bit paranoid about this.

 

[MJH]

After running the qualifier tonite, I thought I would try the Renault's off road capabilities. Lots of room at Willow to explore the desert.

After running the qualifier tonite, I thought I would try the Renault's off road capabilities. Lots of room at Willow to explore the desert.

Just to be clear. Would this lap be considered dirty or not?

 

[hasslemoff]

Just to be clear. Would this lap be considered dirty or not?

1st one clean as there is two wheels still on the ground, the way the car is lined up it should make it over the fence.

2nd dirty as all four wheels are off the ground and the paint seems a bit dirty.

3rd I'm unsure as the tyre seems flat, I would need to see another angle.

 

[EDK]

Thanks for the quick reply Lucas.

Edited to remove remarks.


1. Thank you for your reply Kevin.

2. I hadn't realized that everyone was insisting on stretching the boundary rules to the absolute maximum, within a millimeter of their life. Hell, that must be the European drivers. Over here, we stretch them to within inches of our lives.

3. If going fast means dipping 2.99 wheels of on every corner, then that's what needs to be done, period! I am not doing this as a leisurely drive around the desert, this is a competition and that means taking it to the limit.

This is winter. There are a lot of skiing competitions going on right now. I suggest you watch a few slalom competitions and count how many skiers don't put their shoulders, elbows, knees, and other body parts into the course markers as they round them. Getting as close to the edge without going over it is the fastest way down the hill. Same as racing Kevin (which you know, as a bomber driver).

The skiing thing has come up in the past, one of our own staff has also brought it up as a method for managing the divisions, promotions, and managing DQ's.

The big difference here is that this is not a live event with a one time run. If you mess it up, you have a chance to correct it.

I was not trying to call you out directly with my post, it's more a reflection of everything I've read in here and received in my inbox since publishing the qualifier. You and I have had conversations in the past, I know you are a stickler for the rules and just want to understand them - I get that.

The reason for my comment - I believe our boundary rules are quite clear, and I invested a significant amount of my personal time in ensuring they were as easy to understand as possible. So it's frustrating for me when people insist on finding the absolute limit.

Part of your inside tires on the white line with part still clearly on tarmac, I understand that, it's pushing to an appropriate boundary. Understanding if we will DQ you if your contact patch is on white, but part of the tire is over the tarmac? Just run again. We know you are putting a lot of time into your laps and want to do your best. We are also investing a lot of time here, and do not want to spend unnecessary amounts of it checking replays with a fine toothed comb. It should be easy to tell if a replay is clean on the first view, at full race speed. If we have to start pausing and checking, and double and triple checking, and taking pictures - That's a problem, in the case of this event in particular.

Just to be clear. Would this lap be considered dirty or not?

No.

Good to see you here. 👍 You running the qualifier?

 

[JoostBaksteen]

If we have to start pausing and checking, and double and triple checking, and taking pictures - That's a problem, in the case of this event in particular.

Yes, think about the staff for just one second, we have to check all the replays.

Currently we got 900+ members in the registry, say we get 300 submissions for the initial batch, that means a LOT of work (600 replays). If we have to spend 30 minutes checking your replay to make sure it's valid, your chances for getting accepted are pretty slim...

So it's in your own favour to make sure you submit a lap that is clearly clean. You don't want to run the risk the be DQ-ed as we don't want to spend 30 minutes on each replay making sure it's clean.