GTPlanet ITCC Driver's Meetings (pre- and post-race)

[cnd01]

Well, especially on the first lap, yes.

Johnny PM'd me with the details of a "Suggested no-passing zone." I think we'll use it. I'll allow passing, but if anyone crashes anyone else, while passing, it's pretty much guaranteed to be their fault.

The chicane or the right hander before the last hairpin

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The chicane or the right hander before the last hairpin

First lap: *absolutely* no passing in the first turn. Just wait until "la Puerta de Alcalá."


Every lap: be careful passing in the final hairpin.



cnd, the corner before the final hairpin is a left hander though. It's Madrid reverse, correct?

 

[cnd01]

First lap: *absolutely* no passing in the first turn. Just wait until "la Puerta de Alcalá."


Every lap: be careful passing in the final hairpin.



cnd, the corner before the final hairpin is a left hander though. It's Madrid reverse, correct?

Yes it is us Americans have confuse our directions with our politics sometimes.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Dat der governermernt shure souunds preettty conserrvative.



"That government sure seems conservative." in English.

 

[cnd01]

Dat der governermernt shure souunds preettty conserrvative.



"That government sure seems conservative." in English.

Not right now We are a step away from socialism. We now have free healthcare that we can't afford, and more debt than I can count. I might have to learn German and go live in Germany.

 

[NizmoDr3]

Dat der governermernt shure souunds preettty conserrvative.

"That government sure seems conservative." in English.

Hahahaha ... You making the Americans sound bad ...

 

[cnd01]

@ MrM

Not everyone talks like that. Only the people who don't know what GT5 is.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Hahaha, I have nothing against the Americans. I just thought I'd make a little joke about the left/right mistake = politics. Right wing is conservative. Every president until Obama was conservative. So, I'm drawing attention to the fact that cnd made a pretty compelling point.

 

[cnd01]

Hahaha, I have nothing against the Americans. I just thought I'd make a little joke about the left/right mistake = politics. Right wing is conservative. Every president until Obama was conservative. So, I'm drawing attention to the fact that cnd made a pretty compelling point.

Hit the nail on the head there. If my team managers were president then America would be unstoppable

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

American politics. Pffft.



In other news, Championship Honda is definitely a Honda-funded team. The Honda family personally maintains the stable for us. That's why I left the car looking so mint.

 

[cnd01]

American politics. Pffft.



In other news, Championship Honda is definitely a Honda-funded team. The Honda family personally maintains the stable for us. That's why I left the car looking so mint.

MAFIA Motorsports is funded by Ford Racing in association with AlpineStars and a few wealthy team managers.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

AlpineStars!? "Still not bad"

 

[cnd01]

AlpineStars!? "Still not bad"

Yea I think their logo is cool

That would look good on the hood of the Ford Focus.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Clearly. Your Focus also looked pretty nice in the rain at Suzuka. I can't wait until the night race. The cars looked pretty epic with the lights on.

 

[cnd01]

Clearly. Your Focus also looked pretty nice in the rain at Suzuka. I can't wait until the night race. The cars looked pretty epic with the lights on.

yea the Focus looked really good in everyone's rear view mirror in the rain. MAFIA Motorsports will be in stealth mode in the night races.

 

[freshseth83]

Where's these videos of the races @Suzuka? I thought I jumped the start on race 2, so I drove through the grass and let the people pass me.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Seth, you'll find all of the ITCC videos on the ITCC channel. YouTube decided to rename it, but, whatever...




Anyways, that's the track discussion for this week. I'm also going to add corner names to each corner.

 

[anirishnirvana]

Can I have a copy of race 2 this weekend please? Had some good racing with Lancer this weekend. Although, on one of the laps I reckon I closed turn one off maybe a bit too aggressively, which resulted in contact & kudos to Lancer, he kept slow enough to give the place back. Sorry if that's the case.

Also, is there a rule about not gaining an advantage from the barriers? Reference, race 3 GVE where K1m used the tunnel wall to keep the car together.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I can't believe that people use guard rails to try to win. I think the GTPlanet OLRs have something. I'll look into it.

 

[anirishnirvana]

I can't believe that people use guard rails to try to win. I think the GTPlanet OLRs have something. I'll look into it.

In that scenario, K1m was out of control. Then he hit the tunnel wall and someone else and was driving like normal (without giving up any places). I can't remember if it was race 2, but when I ran onto the run off for the 130R, even though Lancer wasn't directly behind me, I gave the place up as I kept an advantage from a run off area (like Spa and Canada's final chicane & Monaco's chicane)

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

^^ That is the desired conduct.

 

[Johnnypenso]

First lap: *absolutely* no passing in the first turn. Just wait until "la Puerta de Alcalá."

Have a few thoughts on Madrid but first I'd like to suggest that this needs to be better defined. You have a whole grid full of cars, all pretty much the same speed and there's no way that some of them aren't going to be side by side entering the corner. Things are happening so fast, it's going to be impossible to keep track of everyone around you and what they are doing. If one of them brakes just 10 feet too soon, the car beside them is going to go flying by them, looking like a pass.

If there is a specific first corner rule, I don't think you can avoid two wide heading into there, at least among some cars, so I'd prefer that we acknowledge that that is inevitable and just place a higher burden on allowing enough room for the car beside you to get through the corner. In other words, something like, "First corner, first lap, is very tricky. It's inevitable we will have some two wides there, take extra caution that you leave a lot of room there, if you don't and cause someone to hit the barrier losing positions, you may be severely penalized and have your finishing position equated to lower than the person you put into the guardrail if you should finish in front of them."

Of course in any case, the usual GTP Contact Concessions apply and you are expected to pull aside and let the person you forced into the guardrail past you, when it is safe to do so, within a lap or so. If you are in doubt as to whether you caused an incident in that corner or any other, continue on as usual and a penalty can be applied post race upon review.

We did a Cappuccino Race at Madrid one time and had a 9 car pile up in the final hairpin in one of the smallest cars in the game. One car spinning there or hitting the guardrail on the inside, can stop the entire field. Accidents happen sometimes but one thing you might want to consider is to declare the final hairpin one consecutive corner. In practice that means that you can attempt a pass entering the corner and just hold your line as usual. In that case, all the usual rules about corner rights and giving room apply from GTP.

But once you enter the corner following someone you can't pass them unless they make a major error warranting a pass, meaning a spin, a near spin, or running into the guardrail. Simply getting a few feet off the racing line because someone came in too hot, does not warrant a pass attempt. If we allow guys to make risky pass attempts halfway through the hairpin, incidents will probably follow. Following behind someone who makes a slight error will cost you a couple of tenths at most, so it's not a big deal.

One other thing you might want to consider is, the road leading up to the hairpin is quite narrow, for a couple of hundred metres at least it's barely wide enough to fit two cars. You might want to designate that a "high risk" passing zone, meaning that passing there is legal if you think it's safe, but if you get side by side with someone and run them into the guardrail, extra penalties may be applied to you on top of the usual contact concessions required by GTP Rules. This doesn't limit anyone's racing in any way.

Madrid is a very tough track to race on, but if everyone uses their heads combined with a couple of minor rules to enhance safety and clean racing we should be alright. I think the worst problem drivers are gone now and the rest of us are pretty much on the same page.

 

[cnd01]

Have a few thoughts on Madrid but first I'd like to suggest that this needs to be better defined. You have a whole grid full of cars, all pretty much the same speed and there's no way that some of them aren't going to be side by side entering the corner. Things are happening so fast, it's going to be impossible to keep track of everyone around you and what they are doing. If one of them brakes just 10 feet too soon, the car beside them is going to go flying by them, looking like a pass.

If there is a specific first corner rule, I don't think you can avoid two wide heading into there, at least among some cars, so I'd prefer that we acknowledge that that is inevitable and just place a higher burden on allowing enough room for the car beside you to get through the corner. In other words, something like, "First corner, first lap, is very tricky. It's inevitable we will have some two wides there, take extra caution that you leave a lot of room there, if you don't and cause someone to hit the barrier losing positions, you may be severely penalized and have your finishing position equated to lower than the person you put into the guardrail if you should finish in front of them."

Of course in any case, the usual GTP Contact Concessions apply and you are expected to pull aside and let the person you forced into the guardrail past you, when it is safe to do so, within a lap or so. If you are in doubt as to whether you caused an incident in that corner or any other, continue on as usual and a penalty can be applied post race upon review.

We did a Cappuccino Race at Madrid one time and had a 9 car pile up in the final hairpin in one of the smallest cars in the game. One car spinning there or hitting the guardrail on the inside, can stop the entire field. Accidents happen sometimes but one thing you might want to consider is to declare the final hairpin one consecutive corner. In practice that means that you can attempt a pass entering the corner and just hold your line as usual. In that case, all the usual rules about corner rights and giving room apply from GTP.

But once you enter the corner following someone you can't pass them unless they make a major error warranting a pass, meaning a spin, a near spin, or running into the guardrail. Simply getting a few feet off the racing line because someone came in too hot, does not warrant a pass attempt. If we allow guys to make risky pass attempts halfway through the hairpin, incidents will probably follow. Following behind someone who makes a slight error will cost you a couple of tenths at most, so it's not a big deal.

One other thing you might want to consider is, the road leading up to the hairpin is quite narrow, for a couple of hundred metres at least it's barely wide enough to fit two cars. You might want to designate that a "high risk" passing zone, meaning that passing there is legal if you think it's safe, but if you get side by side with someone and run them into the guardrail, extra penalties may be applied to you on top of the usual contact concessions required by GTP Rules. This doesn't limit anyone's racing in any way.

Madrid is a very tough track to race on, but if everyone uses their heads combined with a couple of minor rules to enhance safety and clean racing we should be alright. I think the worst problem drivers are gone now and the rest of us are pretty much on the same page.

I am going to support something that johnny has been lobbying for for a while. Single File Starts just for this week. This would make no passing easier. Either that or we could do the official start after the chicane on the stretch before the carosel corner with the fancy looking stone building.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The short version of all of that is this:

First Lap, First Corner
First corner, first lap, is very tricky. It's inevitable we will have some two wides there, take extra caution that you enough room for the car beside you should you go through 2 wide. If you don't and cause someone to hit the barrier losing positions, you may be severely penalized and have your finishing position equated to lower than the person you put into the guardrail if you should happen finish in front of them."

Final Hairpin
The final hairpin is declared to be a single corner, so all the usual GTP rules apply concerning corner rights, what a legal pass is etc as if the two 90 degree corners are one consecutive turn. What it also means is that you can't try to outbrake someone in the tiny chute between corners and shoot inside of them to make a pass. Of course if they make a mistake and run into the guardrail or get far off the racing line with a major error, you can attempt a pass if it is safe to do so, as is always the case under GTP Rules anyway.

Track leading up to the Hairpin is a "High Risk Passing Zone"
For several hundred metres before the final hairpin, the track narrows to just two cars wide. It is legal to attempt a pass on that section of track if you deem it safe to do so, but because of the increased risk, an incident caused by the following driver may be more heavily penalized that might normally occur. Be extra careful in this section and remember that even if you complete a pass, you'll likely just get re-passed under the draft on the front straight.


A reminder that of course in any case, the usual GTP Contact Concessions apply and you are expected to pull aside and let the person you forced into the guardrail past you, when it is safe to do so, within a lap or so. If you are in doubt as to whether you caused an incident in any corner, continue on as usual and a penalty can be applied post race upon review. If it's obvious that you caused the incident you should pull aside as soon as possible because that's likely a smaller penalty than one that may be applied post-race.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I am going to support something that johnny has been lobbying for for a while. Single File Starts just for this week. This would make no passing easier. Either that or we could do the official start after the chicane on the stretch before the carosel corner with the fancy looking stone building.

No way!! I have another supporter for single file starts!!! While I appreciate the support and I believe it's truly the way to go, because we haven't practiced it I'd suggest that your other idea might be preferable. While I love parts of the game that mimic reality, I will sacrifice those parts of the game that are realistic, if I can think of another way to do it that makes for better racing.

Moving the official start to the exit of the first chicane but still starting two wide, would accomplish that. I'd suggest that the pole sitter is on the left (I think that'll be the best start out of that corner), and that we go through the chicane and start the race immediately after. As soon as the polesitter is into the chicane the race is on, the front row can accelerate as they normally would exiting the chicane, to the next corner, but the rest of the field cannot accelerate and begin racing until they exit the chicane. Some will complain that it stretches the field out and that is true but the field will spread out anyway exiting the chicane on the first lap, it's inevitable, all this would do is the same thing, but avoid the first corner chaos.

There are several tracks I'd do this on as well. Starting Monaco for example exiting the final corner works really well. Starting Monza exiting the first chicane works well. Many tracks have a more ideal starting point than the S/F line for rolling starts.

 

[cnd01]

No way!! I have another supporter for single file starts!!! While I appreciate the support and I believe it's truly the way to go, because we haven't practiced it I'd suggest that your other idea might be preferable. While I love parts of the game that mimic reality, I will sacrifice those parts of the game that are realistic, if I can think of another way to do it that makes for better racing.

Moving the official start to the exit of the chicane but still starting two wide, would accomplish that. I'd suggest that the pole sitter is on the left (I think that'll be the best start out of that corner), and that we go through the chicane and start the race immediately after. As soon as the polesitter is into the chicane the race is on, the front row can accelerate to the next corner, but the rest of the field cannot accelerate and begin racing until they exit the chicane. Some will complain that it stretches the field out and that is true but the field will spread out anyway exiting the chicane on the first lap, it's inevitable, all this would do is the same thing, but avoid the first corner chaos.

There are several tracks I'd do this on as well. Starting Monaco for example exiting the final corner works really well. Starting Monza exiting the first chicane works well. Many tracks have a more ideal starting point than the S/F line for rolling starts.

Just supporting single file starts for this week, and only if the chicane idea is a wash. I agree with johnny fully on this post. MrM what do you think?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

We could run a start line (painted and visible) after the chicane. However, I'm hesitant to agree, as the "corner exit" definitions could be argued. All drivers should know EXACTLY when the race starts.

My main problem isn't rolling starts, it's standing starts. With 3 or 4 AWD cars in Division 1, at least, we could see some AWD cars using their launch to get three wide. Turn 1 (desafío) will not support three wide. We need Grid boxes, but I am hoping that Turn 1 is close enough to the S/F line that heavy braking and such aren't necessary.

 

[cnd01]

We could run a start line (painted and visible) after the chicane. However, I'm hesitant to agree, as the "corner exit" definitions could be argued. All drivers should know EXACTLY when the race starts.

My main problem isn't rolling starts, it's standing starts. With 3 or 4 AWD cars in Division 1, at least, we could see some AWD cars using their launch to get three wide. Turn 1 (desafío) will not support three wide. We need Grid boxes, but I am hoping that Turn 1 is close enough to the S/F line that heavy braking and such aren't necessary.

We will need practice on this. I will be available tomorrow morning and late tomorrow evening.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

We will need practice on this. I will be available tomorrow morning and late tomorrow evening.

Late evening works for me. Johnny...?




UPDATE: For rolling starts, I'm considering the crosswalk right before the hairpin (Puerta de Alcalá) as it's very wide, and would make avoiding crashes easier. The first time the drivers would need to brake would be into the Carousel (the green park spot, in the shadow of the tall building, not the Puerta de Alcalá.) It's that 90 degree left hander after the sweeper, would be our first braking zone, if we used the Puerta de Alcalá Start line.

 

[Johnnypenso]

We could run a start line (painted and visible) after the chicane. However, I'm hesitant to agree, as the "corner exit" definitions could be argued. All drivers should know EXACTLY when the race starts.

My main problem isn't rolling starts, it's standing starts. With 3 or 4 AWD cars in Division 1, at least, we could see some AWD cars using their launch to get three wide. Turn 1 (desafío) will not support three wide. We need Grid boxes, but I am hoping that Turn 1 is close enough to the S/F line that heavy braking and such aren't necessary.

In theory maybe the "corner exit" definition is arguable but in practice it's simply the point at which you get on the throttle exiting the corner. You don't need a line or a marker of any kind, you just go as soon as you are able to. Chicanes are natural starting points because have to slow down to very slow speeds to get through them, no one can get around you from behind because there's no room, and as soon as you can get on the throttle exiting the chicane you do, and that's the same for everyone.

If you make the start line after the chicane you still have the problem of the field bunched up and trying to get through the first corner.

I've been in races that used chicanes and tight corners as starting points and it always worked well.

I'm tied up offline all week and won't likely get back on until Saturday, sorry..