GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Main Thread

  • Thread starter Masi_23
  • 4,535 comments
  • 203,165 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
It was set in stone for GT500s from the start but GT300s were to test SS which was swiftly binned and joined GT500s in using 1 set of RMs :).

Also John if thats the case (Which is only really because of Pal GT300s super closeness compared with the 3 other divisions) youll never get much ballast as its so competitive ;).
 
You can put the RMs on whenever you choose. You can even start on them but you can only use them once meaning as soon as you pit your to use RH for the remainder of the race or you will be penilised heavily.
 
CSLACR
Ballast System
Podium finishers from each class will incur a Success Ballast Penalty (added weight) for the following race.
Success Ballast Penalties can only be removed 20kg at a time if you miss the podium in the next race.
Ballast will accumulate depending on your success, to a maximum of 140kg.
your ballast will stay with you for qualifying.
There is no mandated location or weight distribution for your ballast weight;
you may change the position,just not the weight, at any time and at your discretion.
Each class has separate systems as shown below.
GT500 Class:
1st : 40kg
2nd : 30kg
3rd : 20kg
4th : 10kg


GT300 Class
1st : 40kg
2nd : 30kg
3rd : 20kg
4th : 10kg

Dual race events will be treated as 1 race for ballast purposes. total points scored for the round, including bonus points, will determine ballast for the following round.
20kg ballast will be removed if you miss a race or dont complete a race.
​

Fixed rate would be pretty hard to determine, certainly in any short period of time. With any system if you have 10 or more drivers grouped together closely, there will be importance of qualifying, and people won't make the cut. If we gave everyone a fixed ballast that did work perfectly, we'd still have people not making the cut. Half of them, to be exact.
Click to expand...

Much better this ballast system 👍 Great work, guys!
 
xStretch-
So we can pit whenever we want or is there a certain window?
Click to expand...

paulmac2k9
You can put the RMs on whenever you choose. You can even start on them but you can only use them once meaning as soon as you pit your to use RH for the remainder of the race or you will be penilised heavily.
Click to expand...
There will be a pit window for all sprint races.
 
I’ve decided to pull out of this championship.

Even if I always known about a ballast system I didn’t realize until how persuasive it is. I have done some thinking how it will impact the competition and it will be all about ballast management over the season. I have come to the conclusion that the perfect result for me at the first race will be to finish in third place. So if there isn’t a desire to try to finish each race as well as possible, the whole idea of a competition fails to exist.

But I do wish all of you great races and a lot of fun.
 
I really dont understand there :boggled: for me if I was fast enough to incure weight id take it happlily knowing ive done good enough to get ballast, thus motivating me more.
 
No substitute for points in the bank, intentionally not picking up ballast relies on specific outcomes in future races when anything could happen to you, very risky to me

Also after looking at points system again I think it awards the top 3 enough to not make carrying ballast a handicap in the long run.

I just think that if it's going to have that much affect then many drivers will be involved over the course of the season and you'll have to be picking up as many points as you can whenever you can
 
Last edited:
I agree top 3 have good points over 4th which still gets 10kgs, imo its perfectly self ballancing.
 
You're obviously not overly motivated by winning the championship Johan or you wouldn't decide to pull out over a ballast system. In that case just run every race as hard as you can and have a lot of fun :-) I think that's what most will do
 
Last edited:
I love strategy so here is what I believe is the best championship strategy given the ballast rule as is.

First, ballast has a huge impact on performance. If the pole sitter Cicua would have 40Kg ballast his pole lap would been enough for 4th place (probably 5th after Falcon qualified). This is the championship environment you have to set your champion strategy around.

The first races would be best to build up an "performance cusion" to your main rivals by obtaining less ballast but still scoring healthy points. This will give you a lot of control in the future races. Ideally you want to snatch the extra bonus points with pole and fastest lap but finish the race far down so you end up around 3-5th place for the event. This will prevent falling too far behind in the championship table

When built up a performance cusion you will start going for the event win. When doing this you want to be dead sure that you score maximum points, race win, pole, and fastest lap. You will get maximum points for the 40Kg ballast performance penalty added This is best done in the mixed events where you don't have the uncertanty of the reversed grid sprint race. you want to be dead sure you pick up maximum points. Again when not going for the win, steal the maximum bonus points from your competitors, finish the race far down, the event in 3-4th. Nurse your performance cusion.

You want to be very sure to avoid finishing worse than 5th as there is no ballast bonus from finishing 8th or 5th. If you biult up some performance cusion, this is not that difficult to control but if you got a lot of ballast this could easily happen.

Towards the end of the championship you start racing more competitive in each race so you finish the championship with roughly the same amount of ballast as you main competitors.

I'm convinced above would be the right strategy with such a heavy performance penalty given out each race. It might be different if there is a Tony or adrrrrmmmm, but in the GT300-PAL there isn't. As I'm convinced of above, it puts a big flaw in what a competition is all about.

But this just me and I hope you will have a lot of fun in the championship.

Edit: If you want to do well in the championship, above is a winning strategy. Unfortunately its not enjoyable to execute it.
 
Last edited:
.: New Driver :.

Welcome to MajikTom

# / PSN: #23 / MajikTom
Conference: NTSC
Class: GT500
Car: Honda Raybrig NSX '08​
 
No way! This sucks. What are your calculations behind this, would you care to disclose them?

The only strategy I can think of is go for the win whenever, and see what gives (probably something else).

If I could have one win and I could decide when to have it, I would of course choose race 9, as all ballasts are removed in race 10.

But basing my campaign on that is certainly a long shot!

I am indeed a bit concerned over the ballasts. If you get 100 kg and that costs 1s on laptime you might be in D2, and over 30-40 laps it is as much as an entire extra pit stop. It sounds like a lot.

But then, your close competition will also carry ballast, they will also lose tenths per lap because of it. Have you taken that into account?

Also see clarification above - you still get points in D2 in mixed races.

I think the numbers should be changed if they really promote non-sporty behaviour, but I am not all convinced about that.

In any case, I sincerely hope you will be on the grid tomorrow.
 
That's the theoretical 'ideal' strategy Johan that neglects the possibility of penalties, errors and damage amongst other things. Or simply that's the way to win the championship whilst carrying the least amount of ballast, not the only way though and no more certain than other ways.

I hope to see you too but it's your decision of course
 
Last edited:
Sail IC
I love strategy so here is what I believe is the best championship strategy given the ballast rule as is.

First, ballast has a huge impact on performance. If the pole sitter Cicua would have 40Kg ballast his pole lap would been enough for 4th place (probably 5th after Falcon qualified). This is the championship environment you have to set your champion strategy around.

The first races would be best to build up an "performance cusion" to your main rivals by obtaining less ballast but still scoring healthy points. This will give you a lot of control in the future races. Ideally you want to snatch the extra bonus points with pole and fastest lap but finish the race far down so you end up around 3-5th place for the event. This will prevent falling too far behind in the championship table

When built up a performance cusion you will start going for the event win. When doing this you want to be dead sure that you score maximum points, race win, pole, and fastest lap. You will get maximum points for the 40Kg ballast performance penalty added This is best done in the mixed events where you don't have the uncertanty of the reversed grid sprint race. you want to be dead sure you pick up maximum points. Again when not going for the win, steal the maximum bonus points from your competitors, finish the race far down, the event in 3-4th. Nurse your performance cusion.

You want to be very sure to avoid finishing worse than 5th as there is no ballast bonus from finishing 8th or 5th. If you biult up some performance cusion, this is not that difficult to control but if you got a lot of ballast this could easily happen.

Towards the end of the championship you start racing more competitive in each race so you finish the championship with roughly the same amount of ballast as you main competitors.

I'm convinced above would be the right strategy with such a heavy performance penalty given out each race. It might be different if there is a Tony or adrrrrmmmm, but in the GT300-PAL there isn't. As I'm convinced of above, it puts a big flaw in what a competition is all about.

But this just me and I hope you will have a lot of fun in the championship.

Edit: If you want to do well in the championship, above is a winning strategy. Unfortunately its not enjoyable to execute it.
Click to expand...
That's a very solid sounding theory you have there, I can't argue it on paper.
But the final results from Season 2 and so far in Pure say that it doesn't all wind up quite so cut and dry.

cicua
No way! This sucks. What are your calculations behind this, would you care to disclose them?

The only strategy I can think of is go for the win whenever, and see what gives (probably something else).

If I could have one win and I could decide when to have it, I would of course choose race 9, as all ballasts are removed in race 10.

But basing my campaign on that is certainly a long shot!

I am indeed a bit concerned over the ballasts. If you get 100 kg and that costs 1s on laptime you might be in D2, and over 30-40 laps it is as much as an entire extra pit stop. It sounds like a lot.

But then, your close competition will also carry ballast, they will also lose tenths per lap because of it. Have you taken that into account?

Also see clarification above - you still get points in D2 in mixed races.

I think the numbers should be changed if they really promote non-sporty behaviour, but I am not all convinced about that.

In any case, I sincerely hope you will be on the grid tomorrow.
Click to expand...
What he's forgetting is that while winning will give 40kg's, the guy in second gets 30, the guy in third, 20, 4th 10. Maybe winning will demote you to finishing 5th in the second race, well guess what? a 1st and 5th nets more points then 2 4th place finishes, with the same total ballast. ;)
TBH, I think he's simply believing the ballast has a greater effect then it really does.
We used the much more extreme 20,40,60 ballast in Pure, and yet it hasn't put me to the back of the field, and we have a very close top 10 guys or so not unlike GT300 PAL does here, so if a more punishing system works well there, why would a less punishing system fail so terribly here?

I haven't finished outside 5th since I first received ballast in Pure, nor have I had less ballast then 40KG's since I got it. ;)
 
Last edited:
This is (probably) my last post because what I write might harm the spirit of the championship.

Every strategy has its risk. But if you have:
- If less ballast than your main rivals, you have strategic control of the championship
- If equal and racing flat out every race, its down to your performance. But you will get penalized when doing well
- If more ballast than your main rivals, you're out of strategic control

The reason why you haven't seen it in the past is probably because nobody have thought it through and done it. Also when having a Tony or aderrrrmmm, they are so much faster than the rest of us so they will win based on pure speed advantage.

I have created many major business strategies in my work life, so this is sort of my home turf. Cannot help myself of thinking strategic, but as I do and believing in above, its hard to motivate myself to go racing with such a rule.

Btw, I think a performance handicap system is great and will make for for closer and more enjoyable racing. But the conceptual flaw with this system is that it penalize you when you within your own capabilities done well in a race and reward you when you failed.
 
I said that allready Twisted :P.

paulmac2k9
Stretch its allways been like this since S2 not sure if ballast was in S1 though.. (Aderrrm for e.g won at monaco with 180kgs ballast in Gt300s :crazy:)
Click to expand...

Page 182 :sly:.
 
Sail IC
This is (probably) my last post because what I write might harm the spirit of the championship.

Every strategy has its risk. But if you have:
- If less ballast than your main rivals, you have strategic control of the championship
- If equal and racing flat out every race, its down to your performance. But you will get penalized when doing well
- If more ballast than your main rivals, you're out of strategic control

The reason why you haven't seen it in the past is probably because nobody have thought it through and done it. Also when having a Tony or aderrrrmmm, they are so much faster than the rest of us so they will win based on pure speed advantage.

I have created many major business strategies in my work life, so this is sort of my home turf. Cannot help myself of thinking strategic, but as I do and believing in above, its hard to motivate myself to go racing with such a rule.

Btw, I think a performance handicap system is great and will make for for closer and more enjoyable racing. But the conceptual flaw with this system is that it penalize you when you within your own capabilities done well in a race and reward you when you failed.
Click to expand...
i urge you to reconsider, if after 2 or 3 races you are not happy, then you could leave then knowing you have tried it.
there must be a part if you that is really looking forward to this weeks race.
you only have to look at the results over at pure to see that the ballast isnt having such a negative effect as you think. it all becomes about race craft, something which i feel you will excell at. to win this championship with thus level of skill isnt about who can drive the fastest lap.
i will understand your reasons for not racing however,i really think you should give it a go. you have invested an awful amount of time into this championship and i am sure i speak for everyone when i say, it would be a pleasure to race a full season with you. i firmly believe that you are the one to beat in the pal gt300 division.
i hope to see you on track tomorrow 👍
 
I think if you can pull off that strategy with success, you deserve it. For me, there are way too many if's in it.

I do not even agree it is the best strategy. You would win 3-5 races that way. But if you go for victory in every race, you might well win 3-5 as well, even with ballast. Competition gets more ballast too as you do not win every time. So end result is the same, but with less risk - more allowance for accidents and what else can happen.

The point you raise is all about the gain of winning vs. the penalty of winning. Sure it is a balance, and the system might need more gain (more podium points) to offset the penalty. But honestly I am all for going with the current system, not sure it really is that broken, and season is tomorrow, I am not going to bow out last minute for that. Anything can happen in the races anyway, ballast is only one factor.
 
For the record ballast last season was 50kgs 30kgs 10kgs ;). And did it stop Mole or Aderrrm winning, hell no :lol:.
 
This is from someone who isnt a fan of ballast at all, I think that ballast should stay as its in the real life Super GT as well. Now, if it needs tweaks or not, Im not sure as Im not an expert on this.

Now, if this pulls the competitivity of the series apart, then I am in agreement with John. I guess we'll find out during the series :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Litchi
GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Round 9 | Monaco | Formula GT
3 4 5
Replies
149
Views
7K
twistedfirework
twistedfirework
Litchi
GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Round 10 | Nürburgring 24h | German II GT
3 4 5
Replies
146
Views
7K
cicua
cicua
CSLACR
GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Round 7 | Monza | Italian GT
4 5 6
Replies
152
Views
8K
twistedfirework
twistedfirework
Litchi
GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Round 6 | Suzuka | Japanese GT
3 4 5
Replies
142
Views
9K
will-i-am
will-i-am
twistedfirework
  • Locked
GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Round 5 | Daytona Road | Rolex GT
Replies
5
Views
781
daan
daan

Latest Posts

Back