GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Main Thread
- Thread starter Masi_23
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- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
Niss
I can help there. What do you need?
- 228
- Amsterdam
- GTP_Nissen
Thanks for helping, i need all the cars except for the Toyota Wedssport Celica '03, i can buy the Premium GT300 Cars myself.
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
Niss
Ok. I can send you 1 each day. Add me on psn my i d is twistedfirework. I could also help with testing if you like, but I am not the greatest at tuning.
@masi are we using pp or hp and weight for gt300 cars?
- 228
- Amsterdam
- GTP_Nissen
Feel free too test with me mate you could be the 2nd test driver, i need confirmation from Masi though
Edit: i think we should test those cars at Nurb GP/F or Laguna Seca, what do you think twisted?
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
I am sure it will be fine with masi. Have you got the specs that aderrrm had come up with? It will be a good starting point. If you haven't, they are listed in the build up to pre season race number 2. If you can't see them, let me know and I will find them and post. I would do it now but I am using an iPhone at the minute. In an hour or two I could find them and post them here.
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
- 1,334
- PST/US
- HarrisonMV1Ford
- DK Harrison
Does the oil change give the extra Hp? /broken in cars? How many miles "broken in"?
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
To brake in a car fully. Drive it 300km and change the oil. A spec or b spec.
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
http://i.imgur.com/bLVoM.jpg last seasons specs
- 1,334
- PST/US
- HarrisonMV1Ford
- DK Harrison
Ok, we use miles in Usa, his much miles is 300 km?
We are using much slower specs this season, who won last season?
We are using much slower specs this season, who won last season?
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
Last seasons gt300 specs.
We found it worked fine other than the impreza 08 was a little too quick and the Lexus at little too slow
http://i.imgur.com/7ko86.jpg
We found it worked fine other than the impreza 08 was a little too quick and the Lexus at little too slow
http://i.imgur.com/7ko86.jpg
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
harrison1476
182.1 miles.
Last seasons winning car was the impreza 08. This season masi wanted to try and get the cars nearer to the 300 bhp mark.
- 1,334
- PST/US
- HarrisonMV1Ford
- DK Harrison
Oh ok. Should be easy, if I get the yellowhat, the. I'm fine its more than broken in... 250+miles
But if SC430, its gona take some miles to go,.like 120
But if SC430, its gona take some miles to go,.like 120
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
CSLACR186 Miles.
If open PP can be worked for GT300, it's probably the better way to go, I would imagine. For the same reasons as GT500.
Oops. I was working from memory. I must of got it wrong 👍
I also think open pp is the way forward
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
NissFeel free too test with me mate you could be the 2nd test driver, i need confirmation from Masi though
Edit: i think we should test those cars at Nurb GP/F or Laguna Seca, what do you think twisted?
I think gp/f is a good shout. i also like testing at spa. i find both circuits have decent straights and every type of corner. fazt, slow, chicane etc.
we could test on different circuits and compere.
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- 1,019
- johnkiller2
CLSACR and I are having a PM discussion if its possible and make sense to move to a PP based car regulation (for the GT500).
I want to publicly give CLSACR credit how he is handling this. He had put a lot work in to work out the current regulations and it was all done. Many would have been very upset and turned defensive when a very different approach been propsed and discussed. But CSLACR has instead been open minded and given an honest look into if a PP based regulation would be better an would work. Very imressive and hats off to the maturity in the way he has responded.
Given being so late, it could very well be that sticking to the "old" regulations will be preferable. Individual cars PP needs to be tested and validated. Even if (in my opinion) a PP based has a lot of advantages, it might be too late in the game to use it for this season.
Here are the biggest issues. In the other racing league we (Nissman, Tony, Apollo, Stretchy, me to name a few) have been racing, we have used a PP based car regulation for a year and it worked very good for us. But we are using RS tires and race mostly at a higher PP (power) level. How the individual car PPs would translate using RH (or RM) tires and a lower power level is not fully tested. We have also done several smaller championships at the 590-600PP level but again using RS tires. The second issue I see is that in our league, we don't have a lot of racing experiance with the Turbo cars. Some at the 615PP level. How these cars individual PPs will work at a lower level has some questions.
I want to publicly give CLSACR credit how he is handling this. He had put a lot work in to work out the current regulations and it was all done. Many would have been very upset and turned defensive when a very different approach been propsed and discussed. But CSLACR has instead been open minded and given an honest look into if a PP based regulation would be better an would work. Very imressive and hats off to the maturity in the way he has responded.
Given being so late, it could very well be that sticking to the "old" regulations will be preferable. Individual cars PP needs to be tested and validated. Even if (in my opinion) a PP based has a lot of advantages, it might be too late in the game to use it for this season.
Here are the biggest issues. In the other racing league we (Nissman, Tony, Apollo, Stretchy, me to name a few) have been racing, we have used a PP based car regulation for a year and it worked very good for us. But we are using RS tires and race mostly at a higher PP (power) level. How the individual car PPs would translate using RH (or RM) tires and a lower power level is not fully tested. We have also done several smaller championships at the 590-600PP level but again using RS tires. The second issue I see is that in our league, we don't have a lot of racing experiance with the Turbo cars. Some at the 615PP level. How these cars individual PPs will work at a lower level has some questions.
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- 924
- North London
- StretchY-
Do you do 180 miles then oil change to break in a car? I tried doing it without an oil change and the car power died in the race and it felt slow and sluggish
With the PP's, I had a different few to most of the other guys in the euro championship. We tried many specs.
- 600pp to all of the cars
- NSX (607), GT-R (610, 11, 13), Lexus (615), Nismo Z (618, 21)
I personally thought the GT-R needed 613 PP as the Lexus is solid in a straight with 615 with lowered aero.
With the 600pp all the cars were equal but the Lexus maybe needed a bit more as on tracks like Monza they had no lap time and was miles off the pace.
Johan maybe after tonights Euro GT500 race we can have another test. Get some of the admins here in to see what they think
With the PP's, I had a different few to most of the other guys in the euro championship. We tried many specs.
- 600pp to all of the cars
- NSX (607), GT-R (610, 11, 13), Lexus (615), Nismo Z (618, 21)
I personally thought the GT-R needed 613 PP as the Lexus is solid in a straight with 615 with lowered aero.
With the 600pp all the cars were equal but the Lexus maybe needed a bit more as on tracks like Monza they had no lap time and was miles off the pace.
Johan maybe after tonights Euro GT500 race we can have another test. Get some of the admins here in to see what they think
- 1,019
- johnkiller2
We will have a very low turnout at todays Euro GT500 race due to many reasons. If someone wants to race with us you are very welcome to do so.
Simple regulations, RS tires:
- 611PP; GTR, NSX, YMS
- 615PP; All other cars, premium and standard.
- All standard old NSXes banned.
We will race at Fuji tonight. Normally we would run 44 laps, but with an expected low turnout we will do 2 races 15 laps each. If more will come, we might make the races a bit longer.
We race in private lobby. If you're interested send me a PSN friend request (johnkiller2). 15 min qual starts at 9:00pm CET (central European time) tonight with the races to follow.
Afterwards we can do some testing.
Arent you allowed to have different HP figures while keeping the same PP? Some cars, I increase the HP and the PP remains the same.
I seriously don't know how a PP system would work. You can have many possibilities with it(increase HP, decrease downforce/decrease HP, increase downforce).
I seriously don't know how a PP system would work. You can have many possibilities with it(increase HP, decrease downforce/decrease HP, increase downforce).
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
Ah, so we are allowed to tweak the HP and downforce? Hmm, sounds interesting. Well, as long as the cars are balanced then I might like this PP idea. Should be fun trying to find the perfect amount of HP and downforce for each track. 👍
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
as we are up against time to sort pp points for the gt300 series, i could do with some help from anyone who raced in season 2 or for that matter anyone who has a little time to spare.
i thought it might be an idea for us to share last seasons suspension settings. it will save a lot of time in testing. nothing specific, just a starting point.
i will start
rx7 ammemayia 06
Drivetrain
LSD
IT: 10
AS: 20
BS: 10
Suspension
Fully Customisable Kit
Ride Height: F -2 R -2
Spring Rate: F 16.9 R 16.3
Dampers(E): F 7 R 6
Dampers(C): F 7 R 6
Anti-Roll Bars: F 6 R6
Camber: F 1.5 R 0.8
Toe: F 0.05 R 0.10
this is where i started on each track.
i thought it might be an idea for us to share last seasons suspension settings. it will save a lot of time in testing. nothing specific, just a starting point.
i will start
rx7 ammemayia 06
Drivetrain
LSD
IT: 10
AS: 20
BS: 10
Suspension
Fully Customisable Kit
Ride Height: F -2 R -2
Spring Rate: F 16.9 R 16.3
Dampers(E): F 7 R 6
Dampers(C): F 7 R 6
Anti-Roll Bars: F 6 R6
Camber: F 1.5 R 0.8
Toe: F 0.05 R 0.10
this is where i started on each track.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Break-in and oil change are 2 totally separate things. break-in gives roughly 2% power increase, oil change roughly 5%.
If you buy a new car, change the oil and drive 186miles(300KM), you'll be down 3% from what you started, because oil change wears off around 150miles, fully worn off by 186miles.
Change the oil again, and you're up to "full" power. (5% + 2% total 7% over new car power)
^ At those specs, the NSX would get absolutely murdered on most if not all tracks.
Having done this with Denilson (Also Swedish) it's hard to get in rooms at the same times.
I might be able to join shortly, just not for very long.
- 4,881
- Stockholm
- chorda / GTP_chorda
Just a quick thought regarding the different methods..
As we discussed a few weeks prior christmas, we saw a slight opportunity to cheat the system that is not PP regulated.
But when looking in detail how much work one had to go thru trying to cheat the system, we pretty quickly saw no possibility to gain more than a pp or 2.
Starting the race with a non-broken in car and let the engine gain hp during the race will not work at all, cause the actual effect of the power increase is not noticed until you actually leave the race, and then jump in again. So that one's out.
You can also see the engine mods in the hud.
Engine Stages is visavble on all (almost) rev guages. The Amemya RX7 is one car, but I'm not sure the Engine stage upgrade is even possible for it, cause I've not driven or come up with the GT300 specs.
Turbo Stage 1: The turbo guage goes all the way (small turbo).
Turbo Stage 2: The turbo guage goes to roughly 80% at full throttle (A restricted big turbo).
Turbo Stage 3: The turbo guage goeas all the way (big turbo), but if used, the powercurve would be too flat, and the peak hp too low at regulated PP to even be close to an advantage.
The big (or one of the big) flaw with the PP is that it's partly calculated of the average output over the entire register.
Let's say we have 2 cars that use the range of 5500-7500 rpm.
Car A has an average hp output of 450 hp over the entire register, same for car B = same PP.
Now, the problem is that the entire curve is not in use in any of the 2 cars since we're racing it between 5500-7500 rpm.
So car A have an average output of 450 hp, but in the range of 5500-7500 rpm, it has 500 hp in average.
Car B got a much flater curve, so the average is 450, same as for car A, but between 5500-7500 the engine produce an average of 475 bhp.
So the average HP is lower in the "working area" of the engine, so even if car B got a much higher average below 5500 rpm, it won't help it's performance. That's why the turbo cars need a higher PP value.
Ofc other factors come in to the equation as well. Downforce and Weight distribution are 2 factors.
With this said, I think that the most important is to find levels that make the cars as equal as possible (duuhhh lol), which method you use is not as important.
The PP regulated method is an interesting way, absolutely, but it's not new to us in any way. imo, it's ofc the most "cheat-proof" way. But, let's say the GT-R and the NSX are regulated to 607 pp.
The GT-R can reduce it's aero on the faster circuits and boost it's HP to help it keep up with the NSX.
What do the NSX driver do to keep up with the GT-R on the tighter tracks??
I understand that you're reducing the PP level in order to try and help the NSX in the slow / sharp corners, but I'm sceptic it will be enough.
On the other hand, we have the method where there's a slight possibility to cheat a pp or 2. Imo, it's not worth the sacrifise. The major cheats can be cought easely by watching the hud of each car. And the one who actually go thru the hassle of cheating the sytem to gain a pp or 2 will not gain anything either way. 1 or 2 pp is a way to small difference to separate 2 equal drivers.
The thing with this system is that it's not as flexible as the PP based one where you can tweak your car in whichever way within the pp limit. The cars will have strong and weak tracks.
The key here is to come up with a track list that promotes all different cars equally over the season.
As in my case this weekend in the PURE race, I'm racing the NSX at Monaco. I know I'm not able to win, but I still feel a strong desire to do as good as possible. So for me, a 6-8th place would be a win for me. I actually find it very stimulating and fun.
And last race at La Sarthe, my car was the fastest one along with the YMS SUPRA, and that put some pressure at me to do good.. I did win that one, but that was also something I "had" to do concidering my car.
I love it!! 👍
What I want to say is that which ever way you go, make sure to do solid testing. Decide which road to go, and don't stop! 👍
Cause changing direction all the time will not do any method good.
That was just my 2 cents.
As we discussed a few weeks prior christmas, we saw a slight opportunity to cheat the system that is not PP regulated.
But when looking in detail how much work one had to go thru trying to cheat the system, we pretty quickly saw no possibility to gain more than a pp or 2.
Starting the race with a non-broken in car and let the engine gain hp during the race will not work at all, cause the actual effect of the power increase is not noticed until you actually leave the race, and then jump in again. So that one's out.
You can also see the engine mods in the hud.
Engine Stages is visavble on all (almost) rev guages. The Amemya RX7 is one car, but I'm not sure the Engine stage upgrade is even possible for it, cause I've not driven or come up with the GT300 specs.
Turbo Stage 1: The turbo guage goes all the way (small turbo).
Turbo Stage 2: The turbo guage goes to roughly 80% at full throttle (A restricted big turbo).
Turbo Stage 3: The turbo guage goeas all the way (big turbo), but if used, the powercurve would be too flat, and the peak hp too low at regulated PP to even be close to an advantage.
The big (or one of the big) flaw with the PP is that it's partly calculated of the average output over the entire register.
Let's say we have 2 cars that use the range of 5500-7500 rpm.
Car A has an average hp output of 450 hp over the entire register, same for car B = same PP.
Now, the problem is that the entire curve is not in use in any of the 2 cars since we're racing it between 5500-7500 rpm.
So car A have an average output of 450 hp, but in the range of 5500-7500 rpm, it has 500 hp in average.
Car B got a much flater curve, so the average is 450, same as for car A, but between 5500-7500 the engine produce an average of 475 bhp.
So the average HP is lower in the "working area" of the engine, so even if car B got a much higher average below 5500 rpm, it won't help it's performance. That's why the turbo cars need a higher PP value.
Ofc other factors come in to the equation as well. Downforce and Weight distribution are 2 factors.
With this said, I think that the most important is to find levels that make the cars as equal as possible (duuhhh lol), which method you use is not as important.
The PP regulated method is an interesting way, absolutely, but it's not new to us in any way. imo, it's ofc the most "cheat-proof" way. But, let's say the GT-R and the NSX are regulated to 607 pp.
The GT-R can reduce it's aero on the faster circuits and boost it's HP to help it keep up with the NSX.
What do the NSX driver do to keep up with the GT-R on the tighter tracks??
I understand that you're reducing the PP level in order to try and help the NSX in the slow / sharp corners, but I'm sceptic it will be enough.
On the other hand, we have the method where there's a slight possibility to cheat a pp or 2. Imo, it's not worth the sacrifise. The major cheats can be cought easely by watching the hud of each car. And the one who actually go thru the hassle of cheating the sytem to gain a pp or 2 will not gain anything either way. 1 or 2 pp is a way to small difference to separate 2 equal drivers.
The thing with this system is that it's not as flexible as the PP based one where you can tweak your car in whichever way within the pp limit. The cars will have strong and weak tracks.
The key here is to come up with a track list that promotes all different cars equally over the season.
As in my case this weekend in the PURE race, I'm racing the NSX at Monaco. I know I'm not able to win, but I still feel a strong desire to do as good as possible. So for me, a 6-8th place would be a win for me. I actually find it very stimulating and fun.
And last race at La Sarthe, my car was the fastest one along with the YMS SUPRA, and that put some pressure at me to do good.. I did win that one, but that was also something I "had" to do concidering my car.
I love it!! 👍
What I want to say is that which ever way you go, make sure to do solid testing. Decide which road to go, and don't stop! 👍
Cause changing direction all the time will not do any method good.
That was just my 2 cents.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Again I agree, on all of it.
But to that same extent, if the GTR benefits on a track from lowering aero, so will the NSX, so I don't think it actually changes the car strengths/weaknesses at all.
Technically speaking, it's 6 and half a dozen, in my opinion.
Open PP just offers people some room to do as they please, and is easier to check, those are the reasons I'm in favor of it. (along with being 100% impossible to cheat)
At this point, I'm basically thinking along the lines of exactly the specs I put forth a page or two back, possibly slightly modified depending on test results (a PP or 2 lower each car) and just using those PP ratings based of where I've found the performance equal for the cars.
This way most of the time, the specs I listed will be the fastest you can have, but just gives everyone the leeway, and we'll never have to worry about whether that guy lowered his rear aero 3 points and added some power to sneak by with a slight advantage.
I hope you know your input is highly valued Dennis, so I'm all ears to whatever you have to say.
That's exactly what I asked SailIC, and the answer is nothing.
But to that same extent, if the GTR benefits on a track from lowering aero, so will the NSX, so I don't think it actually changes the car strengths/weaknesses at all.
Technically speaking, it's 6 and half a dozen, in my opinion.
Open PP just offers people some room to do as they please, and is easier to check, those are the reasons I'm in favor of it. (along with being 100% impossible to cheat)
At this point, I'm basically thinking along the lines of exactly the specs I put forth a page or two back, possibly slightly modified depending on test results (a PP or 2 lower each car) and just using those PP ratings based of where I've found the performance equal for the cars.
This way most of the time, the specs I listed will be the fastest you can have, but just gives everyone the leeway, and we'll never have to worry about whether that guy lowered his rear aero 3 points and added some power to sneak by with a slight advantage.
I hope you know your input is highly valued Dennis, so I'm all ears to whatever you have to say.
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