Guns

[OG_Wretch]

I worry more about getting run into by an idiot driver than I ever have about getting brains blown out or any other kind of hole put in me.

All the friend's and family members shot or killed with guns were in combat save one.
He had emphysema and would not be a burden on the family.
Good he didn't have to use a knife to end it all as that would have been extra suffering.

The only friend murdered had his throat slashed with a razor.
Oddly enough he didn't carry a firearm.

I've only had one gun stuck in my face and that was by a cop in a case of mistaken identity
and was only shot at once but that could have been considered a hunting accident I'd like to think.

I have been stabbed in the face though and that was unpleasent but that was 30 some odd years ago when I had next to no sense at all.

Most of these gun crimes you hear about are criminals shooting each other or their families.
I guess they are having fun killing each other since they haven't stopped since they started when crime was invented.

If you don't go looking for trouble you aren't likely to find it.
If you talk crap to random strangers you might just find one who has no sense of humor and is armed.

For the most part, an armed society is a polite one.

Somedays folks have a bad one so you give them a by unless they are making a direct threat to life an limb...
...then you pull out your pistol and blow their brains out.

 

[RC45]

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[PzR Slim]

Again your ignorance of the context of the statistics proves to be your undoing.

The chance that I as a self-employed pudgy middle-aged white man living in suburbia have of being killed by a gun is so slight I have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning or catching HIV via blood transfusion.

That my statistically ignorant friend is the reality.

If however I was a black man aged 17 to 23 and living in Chicago, New York or Washington DC or some other gang infested inner city location, I would have an almost zero chance of not either being killed by gunfire or landing up in jail though some other illegal act.

See how the gun violence issue is a SOCIAL issue and not a GUN issue?

Your clutching at stats is as absurd as me claiming that Great Britain is guilty of war crimes against civilians because thousands of children died during WWII at the hand of British bombs, bullets and explosives.

Without context and demographic data the number of dead German children is meaningless.

Why do you think people aspire to get out of the inner cities and get to suburbia?

Or that people by the thousands are trying to gain entrance to this country each and every day - how come the presence of guns and supposed mayhem doesn't keep them out?

I mean, if it is so bad here, why do so many want in?

You raise a number of very good points. However, I too am a self-employed pudgy middle-aged white man living in suburbia, and I still think that you in the US have a greater chance of being murdered by a firearm than I have. That increased chance is not as exaggerated as much as the context-less statistics imply but is increased none the less.

Maybe our polar opinions can be attributed to the same thing, fear. I, having lived the majority of my life in a country where guns are not common place, fear residing in a country where they are. And you, having lived in a country where you have always owned one, fear living in a country where you would not have that right. Make sense?

 

[RC45]

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[Sam48]

Well as many as he likes. And he would shoot the police when they get there too as they are unarmed (America should ban arms for regular police as well as the public, except in special exceptions like in the UK who have some armed units).
But the fact remains It's a safer place to be in the UK, even when the police don't have guns.
When a report if someone with a gun is made for whatever reason, a special armed unit can respond and deal with it. There is not more crime.

Still missing the point, and now your assuming and inserting your own ideas because I guess I did not specify certain aspects of my example (nor did mention anything about the UK).

So, put simply, had anyone else in our imaginary shopping mall had a gun on them (legally assuming guns are now legal to carry) they would have been able to uphold the criminal themselves (In an extremely rare case due to the fact that a society were guns are legal, like America, a criminal would think twice about wavering a gun in a shopping mall if he knew others had guns on them as well, only the rest were "good guys") .

If that is the case how do you explain there being 20 more murders involving guns in the US, a country with a lot of guns, when compared to the UK, a country with very few guns, even though per capita there is more crime committed in the UK compared to the US?

Could this simply be population? Could it also simply be our cultural differences cause us to act differently in such cases of criminal activity? Maybe cost, or the ability to attain a gun in the UK? Things like these are hard to factor in because I don't believe whether they use a knife or a gun really matters, it kills someone. Should we then outlaw knifes as well?

 

[Azuremen]

Maybe our polar opinions can be attributed to the same thing, fear. I, having lived the majority of my life in a country where guns are not common place, fear residing in a country where they are. And you, having lived in a country where you have always owned one, fear living in a country where you would not have that right. Make sense?

I think you simply are afraid of something you don't understand. I was raised with guns, shot my first rifle when I was 4 and a handgun at 5. Was educated in how handle, use, clean, and so on when I was 5. Guns are like cars to me - scary only when the person holding them has malicious intents.

As for 20 more deaths... kind of easy to imagine when you have 240 million more people living in the United States than in the United Kingdom. Stop throwing around numbers and then making terrible inferences from them, please.

And if I may ask, what is you age?

 

[PzR Slim]

I think you simply are afraid of something you don't understand. I was raised with guns, shot my first rifle when I was 4 and a handgun at 5. Was educated in how handle, use, clean, and so on when I was 5. Guns are like cars to me - scary only when the person holding them has malicious intents.

As for 20 more deaths... kind of easy to imagine when you have 240 million more people living in the United States than in the United Kingdom. Stop throwing around numbers and then making terrible inferences from them, please.

And if I may ask, what is you age?

If you missed it I own and shoot shotguns recreationally and my father did when I was growing up. So I too grew up with guns and like you they only scare me in the wrong hands but seeing as I can't tell by looking at someone if they have the wrong hands it would worry me to think that all could be carrying a gun at anytime. And the numbers I am 'throwing around' are per capita so are perfectly comparable, given the right context of course. And I'm 37, but what has that got to do with anything?

 

[Keef]

If you missed it I own and shoot shotguns recreationally and my father did when I was growing up. So I too grew up with guns and like you they only scare me in the wrong hands but seeing as I can't tell by looking at someone if they have the wrong hands it would worry me to think that all could be carrying a gun at anytime. And the numbers I am 'throwing around' are per capita so are perfectly comparable, given the right context of course.

Apparently you're confident in your knowledge of gun handling then. So think about it the other way - should other people worry if you were carrying a gun around all the time?

 

[PzR Slim]

Could this simply be population? Could it also simply be our cultural differences cause us to act differently in such cases of criminal activity? Maybe cost, or the ability to attain a gun in the UK? Things like these are hard to factor in because I don't believe whether they use a knife or a gun really matters, it kills someone. Should we then outlaw knifes as well?

Apologies, I didn't explain that very well. The figures I am using are per capita, per 100,000 people, so that takes the respective sizes of our populations out of the equation.

Apparently you're confident in your knowledge of gun handling then. So think about it the other way - should other people worry if you were carrying a gun around all the time?

Absolutely not, they would have nothing to fear from me. The problem, as I see it, is I couldn't be sure of the same thing for any Joe Random I meet.

OT: The Ravens Steelers game is boiling up into quite a game.

 

[PzR Slim]

Sorry DP, please delete.

 

[Sam48]

Apologies, I didn't explain that very well. The figures I am using are per capita, per 100,000 people, so that takes the respective sizes of our populations out of the equation.

Now we still have factor in the rest.

Absolutely not, they would have nothing to fear from me. The problem, as I see it, is I couldn't be sure of the same thing for any Joe Random I meet.

OT: The Ravens Steelers game is boiling up into quite a game.

Neither could they of you.

And by the way, go steelers!

 

[PzR Slim]

Now we still have factor in the rest.

And that's what we are debating. I still believe it's down to the number of guns and their availability that are the main factors

Neither could they of you.

I couldn't expect them too.

And by the way, go steelers!

Seem to be coming back into the game in a big way. Had a very good ten minutes.

 

[Keef]

Absolutely not, they would have nothing to fear from me. The problem, as I see it, is I couldn't be sure of the same thing for any Joe Random I meet.

Every other responsible gun owner out there says the same thing you do, "I'm safe, I'm smart, I would never hurt anybody," whatever. And in my experience, the each have a mutual respect for each other. Even people who don't know each other instantly have a common passion, and of course a main component of gun ownership is safety. They all know that.

Besides respecting the people, they all respect the guns. You won't see people get in arguments and start fights at the shooting range, see what I mean? Carrying guns requires a humble, thoughtful, respectful attitude toward everybody you meet.

As a matter of fact, I think that the reason everybody is so angry and disrespectful in this country is because its assumed that the guy next to you is unarmed. But if he actually was carrying, would you cut him off in traffic, or yell at him out the window? Hell no! If everybody were carrying guns it seems that attitudes would change. I certainly would take issue with somebody if I knew they had a gun in their pocket. Not that they would use it, but its still there.

I would have no problem with open carry being legal everywhere, and even inside private buildings. It would actually put me at ease because at least then I would know who's packing and who isn't. I don't really like concealing a gun because its based on the idea that most people don't have them and would all freak out if they saw it. If everybody was comfortable with guns and they all had them there would be no reason to conceal.

 

[Sam48]

And that's what we are debating. I still believe it's down to the number of guns and their availability that are the main factors

Would you then say more guns in the hands of more people is bad then? (Assuming they're easy to attain?) Because criminals hate that.

I couldn't expect them too.

Would you then think that because of this, more people would carry a gun with them? Because criminals hate that as well.

Seem to be coming back into the game in a big way. Had a very good ten minutes.

I didn't notice this at first, but you're a British (American) Football fan? The first I've ever known, to be honest.

And yes, that was a good ten minutes.

 

[itstheDRE4M]

If you say GUNS kill people...


Then pencils misspell words.

Cars drive drunk.

Spoons make people fat!

 

[Sam48]

If you say GUNS kill people...


Then pencils misspell words.

Cars drive drunk.

Spoons make people fat!

Quite true.

 

[blaaah]

If you say GUNS kill people...


Then pencils misspell words.

Cars drive drunk.

Spoons make people fat!

A guns only purpose is to kill people, the others have primary uses that are not intentionally harmful.

Nuclear missiles don't kill people, people kill people.
How about that one?

 

[Nicksfix]

Then pencils misspell words.

Cars drive drunk.

Spoons make people fat!

Give Congress enough time and they will try to ban or regulate these as well.

 

[blaaah]

"The murder rate per 100,000 people for the US is 5.2. For Australia it is 0.07, for Japan, 0.05, and for the UK 0.06. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/us-politics/8262152/Gabrielle-Giffords-shooting-Why-it-is-time-to-change-gun-laws.html

 

[RC45]

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[OG_Wretch]

Nobody ever raped a .38.

My little girl (6) will get firearms training this Spring.

 

[RC45]

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[Sam48]

A guns only purpose is to kill people, the others have primary uses that are not intentionally harmful.

No. Not at all. Have you not heard of any recreational uses? Those do not kill people (At least not on purpose) . In fact, the most common, by far might I add, reason a person buys a gun is for target practice and hunting.

 

[blaaah]

There is no point in having a gun for sport of recreation, why can't you just use your hand or a stick and pretend to shoot things if it's only a game.

You might give a daughter a gun, but what's stopping some guy walking up behind un-noticed who doesn't even have hold any kind of weapon and grabs hold of her, discovers the gun, takes her gun and shoots her dead in a second. Nobody gets shot if there is no gun.

 

[OG_Wretch]

He'd best be good at hiding because as a Father I would visit 7 x 70 kinds of Hell on his body once I had my hands on him...
...and probably his whole family as well just for GP.

Besides that people in my family don't eat, drink or smoke dope to where they have no idea of their surroundings like some must.

We don't all walk through life without a clue so try again with better bait next time.

 

[Sam48]

There is no point in having a gun for sport of recreation, why can't you just use your hand or a stick and pretend to shoot things if it's only a game.

You might give a daughter a gun, but what's stopping some guy walking up behind un-noticed who doesn't even have hold any kind of weapon and grabs hold of her, discovers the gun, takes her gun and shoots her dead in a second. Nobody gets shot if there is no gun.

I think your running out of excuses. Honestly, "why not use your hand or a stick and pretend to shoot things if it's only a game" ? Really? I have no interest in convincing you that hunting and/or target practice is "just a game". That is like saying there is no point in owning a golf club if you're not going to whack someone over the head with it. Why can't you just image your hitting a golf ball with your air club?

What's stopping some guy from walking up behind un-noticed who doesn't even have hold any kind of weapon and grabs hold of her, discovers the stick, takes her stick and stabs her dead in a second. Nobody gets stabbed if there is no stick.

 

[RC45]

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[blaaah]

I think your running out of excuses. Honestly, "why not use your hand or a stick and pretend to shoot things if it's only a game" ? Really? I have no interest in convincing you that hunting and/or target practice is "just a game". That is like saying there is no point in owning a golf club if you're not going to whack someone over the head with it. Why can't you just image your hitting a golf ball with your air club?

What's stopping some guy from walking up behind un-noticed who doesn't even have hold any kind of weapon and grabs hold of her, discovers the stick, takes her stick and stabs her dead in a second. Nobody gets stabbed if there is no stick.

Exactly, ban golf, boring load of crap game.
Anyway there are many gun shot murders, not many killed by golf stick murders.

So in your world its ok if he rapes and then leaves her for dead? Youare assuming that the "sirprise attack" is going to go unchallenged.

Very narrow minded naive view, and in fact a very sexist outlook. You would not even allow women to defend themselves?

Wow.. that is all I have to say to that.

I think you are revealing your own prejudices, I am saying no one should have a gun.
It could be endangering a daughter if someone lets her have a gun, child abuse it could be called, and what the law might call it in other countries.

 

[RC45]

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[blaaah]

The legal age for concealed carry is 21 - how is a 21 year old daughter carrying concealed child abuse?

You are so far out in left field that your arguments are now coming unraveled.

So again, are you going to say here in public that you have no desire for women to protect themselves?

Why else would you appose women legally defending themselves with firearms?

It doesn't matter what you say, criminals will get guns and weapons - they always do, that is kind of why they are classified as criminals.

While you are franticly Googling more pointless stats, be sure to take a swag at the Swiss crime rate, number of firearms owned - just to fair and balanced of course.

Here I am in public saying this sentence:
Women should not carry guns.
Also White people should not carry guns.
I am not sexist or racist in any way you haven't read my posts properly and just presume based on your prejudices perhaps.
And i have never Googled for facts about gun stats.
I'm sure the age of 12 was mentioned earlier for the girl, it may have been a typo. But why the 'concealed' descriptor? Enlighten me, does that mean you can carry a gun that is visible before the age of 21?
Anyway carrying a gun or not it might be child abuse just to teach a child how to shoot with a real gun. You must take into account that countries other than America it's illegal for even an adult of any age to have a handgun. To put children into the mix could be a direct ticket to jail.

I'm just putting a point across you know, you don't need to have a go.


Men should not carry guns.
All other skin colours should not carry guns.

You get it?

He'd best be good at hiding because as a Father I would visit 7 x 70 kinds of Hell on his body once I had my hands on him...
...and probably his whole family as well just for GP.

Besides that people in my family don't eat, drink or smoke dope to where they have no idea of their surroundings like some must.

We don't all walk through life without a clue so try again with better bait next time.

So not only would your family be devastated by a rape, you would further their pain by denying them wilfully of a father/partner by getting yourself executed/jailed for life for mass murder?