If GT5 does incorporate a livery editor...

[Blitz187]

@ Robin

There's so much other stuff to keep you busy though... Or were you counting specifically on this feature?

 

[-Cheezman-]

I think a livery editor is a standard given in racing games today, people like the community aspect with personalisation and sharing, something with Forza has excelled at. I'm very surpised that PD decided to shelf it, its almost a snobbish reaction like they only want hardcore sim people to play this game and it will alienate the casual market even further.

Considering a large portion of this game is going to be multiplayer, it also would make sense for there to be a livery editor. From a realism standpoint, almost every racing series has cars with liveries; it what sets individual teams and drivers apart (along with sponsorship endorsements).

Considering all of GT5's major competition has livery editors, it would have been safe to assume a livery editor would be included; apparently not.

I can understand why it may not make the cut though. They are giving us a track editor, insane graphics, realistic physics, go karts, weather, and much more. So, they need to make sacrifices somewhere.

 

[Robin]

There's so much other stuff to keep you busy though... Or were you counting specifically on this feature?

It was high up on my list and seeing as every other game out there was doing it I didnt worry because I thought PD would be mad not to do it. It would have been so easy to implement, plus I knew they would probably do it better than anyone has ever done and I was looking foreward to it with online racing and teams etc.

Yes there are loads of other unexpected things that have been delivered and yes theres loads to keep you buzy but the one thing which seemed like a given has been scrapped, its quite a dissapointment.

Robin.

 

[blaktek]

"Every other game does it"...

Not all of those do it right, though. I'm not demanding something the level of Forza, but if they can't implement something better than NFS Shift, they can keep it for GT6.

 

[TheCracker]

Well he certainly didnt stop us believing all this time that they were going to do it! A feature like this can't appear over night and if they had no intention to pursue it that decision would have been made months ago. So why not say then! On another note I think nearly everything on that list had made it in other than this and the number plate editor!

I think a livery editor is a standard given in racing games today, people like the community aspect with personalisation and sharing, something with Forza has excelled at. I'm very surpised that PD decided to shelf it, its almost a snobbish reaction like they only want hardcore sim people to play this game and it will alienate the casual market even further.

I love doing liveries and spent most of my time in MCLA doing them, I feel a feature like this adds loads to a game and gives the feeling of a limitless amount of cars.

Robin.

As much as the creative side of me yearns for a livery editor, i think the almost certain inclusion of a track editor/creator more than makes up for it.

Unless you use chase cam or spend a large amount of your Gran Turismo playing time watching replays or getting your car washed, the actual look of the car is a minor element in the grand scheme of things.

Creating the world in which those vehicles exist on the other hand is a much more fulfilling, immersive and ultimately rewarding experience IMO.

Also remember Kaz's response was “Probably not for GT5, though it’s certainly on our list of things to work on…” - which does not rule it out completely and still means it hasn't yet been dropped off the development schedule.

 

[Peter]

I guess i'll have to be the only optimistic person in the GT5 forum again and say, he said "probably not". Meaning it may not happen, but also may happen.

 

[Gryzor]

Well he certainly didnt stop us believing all this time that they were going to do it! A feature like this can't appear over night and if they had no intention to pursue it that decision would have been made months ago. So why not say then! On another note I think nearly everything on that list had made it in other than this and the number plate editor!

I think a livery editor is a standard given in racing games today, people like the community aspect with personalisation and sharing, something with Forza has excelled at. I'm very surpised that PD decided to shelf it, its almost a snobbish reaction like they only want hardcore sim people to play this game and it will alienate the casual market even further.

I love doing liveries and spent most of my time in MCLA doing them, I feel a feature like this adds loads to a game and gives the feeling of a limitless amount of cars.

Robin.

Like I said, a wish list is not confirmation that something will be present. They never said it would be in the game, so why expect them to say something unless questioned about it? As pointed out, he used the word "probably", which means it won't be in GT5 at launch but is still in scope for the series.

I get why people want the feature and I do agree that it adds a whole new dimension to the game for those who like that kind of thing. However, just because Forza 3 led the way with liveries and sharing such stuff does not mean every racing game has to adopt it. I'm sure it will come to GT one day, but Kaz, like me, probably thinks that the racing/driving itself is more important, hence the focus on car and track variety.

I don't see this alienating the casual market at all. The game has always been accessible to all levels, and if anything, not hardcore enough for some. This version seems to broaden the scope nicely with the various physics options available.

 

[Robin]

@ TheCracker,

We have yet to see how the track editor really works but I agree it sounds promising (basically a scene which you drape tarmac on), I actually thought a livery editor had a much better chance of getting in than a track editor.

I guess the general point of doing liveries is for other people to enjoy, its not really for you unless your in the garage or photomode. You get a great sense of immersion if your racing and see everyone elses teams and a liveries.

If they are still exploring a livery editor for the future I guess the best I could hope for is a DLC addition maybe a year down the line. I would hate to wait till GT6 because by then it would be such a played out feature on every racing game.

Like I said, a wish list is not confirmation that something will be present. They never said it would be in the game, so why expect them to say something unless questioned about it? As pointed out, he used the word "probably", which means it won't be in GT5 at launch but is still in scope for the series.

Thats not a wishlist, its a feature list (just like with GT4 and online been a feature and that got cut).

People have asked him about the livery editor at every event all the way up until now, he always said maybe, now he finally basically says 'not for GT5'. It wasnt like he decided today that he wasnt going to do it! This decision was made months ago.

I don't see this alienating the casual market at all. The game has always been accessible to all levels, and if anything, not hardcore enough for some. This version seems to broaden the scope nicely with the various physics options available.

I would disagree, I only know one person personally that likes Gran Turismo, all my other mates hate it because its too hard. I remember bringing GT4 over to a friends house when it came out, he played it for 5 mins on easy in arcade and hated it he said its unplayable and didnt play it after that, and this guy owns loads of racing games including all the Forza's. Another friend bought the GT3 bundle and sold the game right away!

Also look at all those gaming journalists videos where they can't drive on GT for nothing! GT is a success because it appeals to a very large sim racing enthusiast market and also those who like graphical excellence. Its general appeal has always been an issue which is why PD introduced B-Spec and photomode.

Robin.

 

[Spagetti69]

When I saw those stealth cars with blank spaces for racing numbers I thought it was a certainty for a livery editor.

Just the ability to add race numbers would be a bonus.
I think they feel unless they can better forza it's not going in.

I wouldn't hold it against them for some basic options. Oh well.

 

[chepe371]

Considering a large portion of this game is going to be multiplayer, it also would make sense for there to be a livery editor. From a realism standpoint, almost every racing series has cars with liveries; it what sets individual teams and drivers apart (along with sponsorship endorsements).

It's definitely not a deal breaker, but sad that KAZ felt it didnt deserve to make the cut.

 

[TheCracker]

@ TheCracker,

We have yet to see how the track editor really works but I agree it sounds promising (basically a scene which you drape tarmac on), I actually thought a livery editor had a much better chance of getting in than a track editor.

I also thought it was much more likely we'd have a livery editor included then it was a track editor, but i can't say i'm disappointed that it's the other way round

I guess the general point of doing liveries is for other people to enjoy, its not really for you unless your in the garage or photomode. You get a great sense of immersion if your racing and see everyone elses teams and a liveries.

When I saw those stealth cars with blank spaces for racing numbers I thought it was a certainty for a livery editor.

Just the ability to add race numbers would be a bonus.
I think they feel unless they can better forza it's not going in.

I wouldn't hold it against them for some basic options. Oh well.

It might be looking likely that initially we won't have a full livery editor, but that doesn't mean that we won't get an extended version of GT4's customisation features. Not only could you change wheels and add wings to cars, but GT5's version could still add custom race numbers/licence plates as well as other body mods too - remember GT2's Racing Modifications have been confirmed as an addition. Even a paint shop where you can get your cars repainted still wouldn't mean a feature you would class as a 'livery editor' but it would all add up to allow you a great deal of personalization.

 

[Mubble]

I'm gutted there's no livery editor.

For me, that's half of the lifespan of the game gone right there. I don't want to race every time I'm on GT5. I wanted to spend time creating a racing team with my own personal livery, and wanted to build a reputation so that other people request me design their cars for them.

My mate plays Forza everyday and spends 80% of his time tuning cars and creating liveries. The design aspect is responsible for a massive part of the community aspect of the game. Without this 'behind the scenes' aspect of racing, GT5 will only be half the game it could have been.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

@ TheCracker,

We have yet to see how the track editor really works but I agree it sounds promising (basically a scene which you drape tarmac on), I actually thought a livery editor had a much better chance of getting in than a track editor.

I guess the general point of doing liveries is for other people to enjoy, its not really for you unless your in the garage or photomode. You get a great sense of immersion if your racing and see everyone elses teams and a liveries.

If they are still exploring a livery editor for the future I guess the best I could hope for is a DLC addition maybe a year down the line. I would hate to wait till GT6 because by then it would be such a played out feature on every racing game.

👍

This is really disappointing, for the simple fact that it's boring racing against stock-looking cars in online races. A livery editor gives us personalization; I don't need to see someone's name above their car to know who it is, I can tell just by their paintjob. I plan on mostly racing with friends I know, so and a bunch of them were doing spec races in FM2 (Miatas, 911s, F360), and it was so cool to see each car unique to the others.

I'm actually really surprised that it (probably) didn't make the cut, at the very least for Premium cars only (since a livery editor for Standards would require a different approach), since it's basically a standard for the genre now. It definitely wouldn't take as long to implement as a track editor. I don't want to wait until GT6 either... who knows how long that'll be.

On a slightly better note... at least there's racing mods back...

 

[Gryzor]

I would disagree, I only know one person personally that likes Gran Turismo, all my other mates hate it because its too hard. I remember bringing GT4 over to a friends house when it came out, he played it for 5 mins on easy in arcade and hated it he said its unplayable and didnt play it after that, and this guy owns loads of racing games including all the Forza's. Another friend bought the GT3 bundle and sold the game right away!

Also look at all those gaming journalists videos where they can't drive on GT for nothing! GT is a success because it appeals to a very large sim racing enthusiast market and also those who like graphical excellence. Its general appeal has always been an issue which is why PD introduced B-Spec and photomode.

Robin.

Taking your last point first, no, a lot of the gaming journalists can't drive on GT for nothing because they are there to do a job, and are not necessarily experts or even particularly enjoy racing games. On top of that, racing with a wheel can be difficult at the best of times and takes a lot of practice if you are not used to it. These guys get maybe a few minutes play time at best, so can hardly be expected to put in the picture-perfect laps you desire!

Bringing mates into the argument is usually a sign that you are only interested in getting your point across with artificial statistics. Sales of GT and the widespread audience speak way more volumes than any narrow circle of friends. Granted, different people prefer the way different games play, but to say GT only appeals to sim racers just because most of your friends say the game is too hard...crazy.

I'm not saying a livery editor would not broaden the appeal even more, because you are correct regarding the graphical excellence and non-racing stuff. However, despite how large the online community might be with Forza, proportionally, there are very few people out there who would buy a racing game only to sit there and design cars 50 - 80% of the time. It's a far smaller audience than people who buy racing games to, you know, race.

I'm gutted there's no livery editor.

For me, that's half of the lifespan of the game gone right there. I don't want to race every time I'm on GT5. I wanted to spend time creating a racing team with my own personal livery, and wanted to build a reputation so that other people request me design their cars for them.

My mate plays Forza everyday and spends 80% of his time tuning cars and creating liveries. The design aspect is responsible for a massive part of the community aspect of the game. Without this 'behind the scenes' aspect of racing, GT5 will only be half the game it could have been.

Hang on...how has half of the lifespan of the game gone when it was never really in there in the first place?

Sounds to me like you need to get Forza and be a part of that community because clearly the focus for GT5 has been placed on the core car variety, tracks and racing at this moment in time.

 

[Robin]

Gryzor, I think you are just getting argumentative, suggesting that I'm using mates to 'artificially' sway things is laughable because I'm not trying to prove anything to you, taking about my experience with people I know was anecdotal and this is a discussion so I don't know why you feel it needs to be an arguement.

If your so sure of the 'wide spread audience' and having concrete evidence then prove it and no, sales figures do not say who bought it. I also certianly did not come to the conclusion that sim racers only buy it because my mates dont and I never even said that it was only sim racers who buy it!

Gaming journalists whether they are on the job or not does not affect their ability to play a game, after all they are the general gaming population so if they can't hack it in 5 mins after probably playing racing games for a living then obiviously that GT is not that mainstream friendly. The wheel doesnt come into it because it should be even easier seeing as thats how people drive in the real world.

In general most people cannot grasp racing games beyond an arcade level of assist and realising this many other franchises have tried to add other types of functionality to broaden its appeal, and so has GT but not to the extent that its rivals have.

Can we get back to discussing the livery editor (or lack of) please!

Robin.

 

[maxpontiac]

👍

This is really disappointing, for the simple fact that it's boring racing against stock-looking cars in online races. A livery editor gives us personalization; I don't need to see someone's name above their car to know who it is, I can tell just by their paintjob. I plan on mostly racing with friends I know, so and a bunch of them were doing spec races in FM2 (Miatas, 911s, F360), and it was so cool to see each car unique to the others.

I'm actually really surprised that it (probably) didn't make the cut, at the very least for Premium cars only (since a livery editor for Standards would require a different approach), since it's basically a standard for the genre now. It definitely wouldn't take as long to implement as a track editor. I don't want to wait until GT6 either... who knows how long that'll be.

On a slightly better note... at least there's racing mods back...

I usually don't agree with you on much, but this post is something I am on the same page on.

I am not one to use a livery system at all, but I know others are.

I am hoping that the racing-mods offers some type of custom look features other then just paint color.

 

[eSZee]

Hang on...how has half of the lifespan of the game gone when it was never really in there in the first place?

Sounds to me like you need to get Forza and be a part of that community because clearly the focus for GT5 has been placed on the core car variety, tracks and racing at this moment in time.

We have screens from years ago with a livery editor as part of the game. Maybe you should check your info before you attack people and make yourself look bad. Sadly, this is typical of many people here.
As for telling him to move on over to forza, well, how very friendly of you.

 

[Gryzor]

We have screens from years ago with a livery editor as part of the game. Maybe you should check your info before you attack people and make yourself look bad. Sadly, this is typical of many people here.
As for telling him to move on over to forza, well, how very friendly of you.

Show me those screens then, or should I look those up myself too? Not once, ever, has a livery editor been talked about as definitely being a part of GT5. It has been shown in a sort of wish list for the game/series, that is all.

How friendly of me? That's a bit rich coming from you - somebody who told somebody else to go and research a question they asked because you could not be bothered to help, despite knowing the answer.

 

[Devedander]

We have screens from years ago with a livery editor as part of the game. Maybe you should check your info before you attack people and make yourself look bad. Sadly, this is typical of many people here.
As for telling him to move on over to forza, well, how very friendly of you.

I need to add a line to my for bad news at GTP: It's really not in? WELL **** IT, it's not important anyway, why don't you go play fm3/burnout/insert game name which has successfully implimented this feature for years.

{

How friendly of me? That's a bit rich coming from you - somebody who told somebody else to go and research a question they asked because you cold not be bothered to help, despite knowing the answer.

Translation: Why should I have to bother learning the things I know! Someone else just cram that knoweldge into my head for me!

 

[eSZee]

Show me those screens then, or should I look those up myself too? Not once, ever, has a livery editor been talked about as definitely being a part of GT5. It has been shown in a sort of wish list for the game/series, that is all.

How friendly of me? That's a bit rich coming from you - somebody who told somebody else to go and research a question they asked because you could not be bothered to help, despite knowing the answer.

You've proven you couldn't find an elephant in a Honda Jazz so let me do it for you.
Go back one page and look at that pretty picture of Kaz standing in front of a huge screen.

 

[Gryzor]

I need to add a line to my for bad news at GTP: It's really not in? WELL **** IT, it's not important anyway, why don't you go play fm3/burnout/insert game name which has successfully implimented this feature for years.

Like I said in another thread, provide me with evidence that a livery editor was promised in GT5 and I'll eat humble pie. Until then, people getting all upset about it not being it the game have nothing really to base it on apart from their own expectations.

Edit: Sorry, that slide you referenced is not proof at all that GT5 was promised on GT5. It is merely a wish list or ideas/concepts they would like to introduce. Nice try.

 

[eSZee]

so nice of Amar to tell you that.

 

[Devedander]

Like I said in another thread, provide me with evidence that a livery editor was promised in GT5 and I'll eat humble pie. Until then, people getting all upset about it not being it the game have nothing really to base it on apart from their own expectations.

Edit: Sorry, that slide you referenced is not proof at all that GT5 was promised on GT5. It is merely a wish list or ideas/concepts they would like to introduce. Nice try.

Where have I seen this logic before? Oh yes ALL over the place around here... it's the cry of the fanboy... if it isn't written in stone, signed with KY's own blood and notarized twice, it basically never happened.

And like I said before, are we in third grade where "but I never PROMISED" still flies?

I would be curious to see a list of all games in which the head of the dev house said "We promise this and that" at some point in development.

 

[shadynader]

Running out of threads to convey your negativity Div?

Anyways, it's nice to see you outside the standard vs premium thread.

 

[Devedander]

Running out of threads to convey your negativity Div?

Anyways, it's nice to see you outside the standard vs premium thread.

Get bored without me around to troll about being negative?

It's not about the threads available, it's about he source and whether it's got issues that are dissapointing or not, don't blame me for what's (not) in GT5

 

[Tomoholic]

I'm a bit dissapointed a livery editor won't be present, but if it's true that racing modifications are back and if they are anywhere near as good as they were in GT & GT2 then that would make up for it.

 

[shadynader]

Get bored without me around to troll about being negative?

It's not about the threads available, it's about he source and whether it's got issues that are dissapointing or not, don't blame me for what's (not) in GT5

Ah well, we will have to make do with the features that ARE in the game then. The track creator looks like it's going to feed my urge and let my creative side flourish.

 

[kweiss]

I've only been playing the series since GT3. Can someone please explain how the racing modifications from GT2 worked?

 

[G.T.Ace]

It was a tuning option which turned roadcars into racecars, with aero parts and a racing livery. Some mods made cars (like the old Celicas) look like real life race/rallye cars.

EDIT:

 

[Vincent Viceroy]

Well he certainly didnt stop us believing all this time that they were going to do it! A feature like this can't appear over night and if they had no intention to pursue it that decision would have been made months ago. So why not say then! On another note I think nearly everything on that list had made it in other than this and the number plate editor!

I think a livery editor is a standard given in racing games today, people like the community aspect with personalisation and sharing, something with Forza has excelled at. I'm very surprised that PD decided to shelf it, its almost a snobbish reaction like they only want hardcore sim people to play this game and it will alienate the casual market even further.

I love doing liveries and spent most of my time in MCLA doing them, I feel a feature like this adds loads to a game and gives the feeling of a limitless amount of cars.

Robin.

Are you for real? A tonne of confirmations have been made today, maybe more new ones tomorrow, and you are still unhappy that a slide showing Kaz's personal 'vision' for GT back in 2005...or whenever...includes a note regarding a livery editor but it's not in GT5?

It was never confirmed as a GT5 feature and it has never been, up to now, referred to since then. Maybe that's a clue, no?

I just don't get this at all. Has it been a game-breaker?