I'm Done Trying Hard

[Swift]

Are people born without legs where you live Swift?

Are taxis, bicycles and public transport banned?

No but they are incredibly limited and expensive(the other forms of transportation I mean besides a bike. that simply doesn't work in the winter). What I'm saying is that if you live where I live, you get a car or move to where you don't need one. That's all.

 

[Famine]

UK public transport is rubbish, apart from ONE system.

Sheffield's SuperTram. The only public transport system in the UK both adequate enough to make me prefer using it on its route over the car and actually good. It stops in the right places, is punctual, regular, cheap and passably clean. Okay, it's not Malaysia, but it's the absolute pinnacle the UK has to offer - and Sheffield has very few car restrictions compared to other cities, but the SuperTram is just preferable to it.

Funny story though - while being run by Sheffield City Council, it was absolute crap. It wasn't until it was taken over by Stagecoach - a private concern running several public transport systems - that it became good.

Transport - another thing government and the public purse are bad at running.

 

[Der Alta]

In my line of work, everybody knows my current employer. My firm is the pinnacle employer for what I do. If I were to say that I'd be laughed right out of the interview. It is good advice, it just don't apply so much to me.

OK, so this means you work at the best of the best in your field. Any other employer should be happy to steal you away. Stating to a prospective employer that you work for the best, but the position you are in is what'll you'll be doing for the next 20 years, and that spells boredom after a few years, will show them that you want to step your knowledge and experience up to the next level. The best in the business couldn't do that for you, so you began exploring other firms that can. Hence why you're sitting in that seat talking to that company.

Let's say I do what you suggest. Let's say I risk my job, quit, go get a job with some other company, and come back to this one. I'll have ticked off a lot of people who wonder why I jerked around this company so much... and for what? A 5k/year pay increase? 10k? Is it worth it? How much is 10k to me? It's 5k after taxes. What would I have gotten as a raise if I hadn't done any of that stuff at all? Probably a decent portion of that 5k after taxes.

I've left and returned. I know many others that have. You didn't jerk that company around. They jerked you around. You asked for more to do, you asked to learn about what's the next step up, you willing looked for ways to improve yourself in that company and they couldn't provide it. Hence you left. You return and it means they want you and are willing to give you that next step.

I'm just trying to be realisitic about what I can achieve. What do you think you can achieve in your line of work DA? Do you think you can double your salary by the time your retire? Triple? Maybe only add 50%? Take out half for taxes and tell me if it's worth it.

In the architecture world, I was at or near the top. The only way to go any higher, is to either start my own firm, or buy into a new firm. The big pay raise that I just took at the new firm, is because I'm in construction now. I manage the on-site construction of big buildings. The money I can make here (based on construction management firms) is more than twice what I could as an Architect.

By the time I retire, I aim to be making 5 times what I'd make as an architect. I also have a plan for that. Always have a back-up plan.

So I have to ask, after reading all that above, Are you happy in the line of work that you are doing? and if so, you can research the expected money for someone in your position and find out if that is something that you can live with. If not, it's time to make a career change.

You know what I really think you should do? Track down the last person that left the firm for greener pastures, meet him and buy him a round of drinks. Pick his brain for why he left, and what has happened. Judge yourself against him and see if you could do the same.

AO

 

[smellysocks12]

I know you see taxes as stealing danoff.



You haven't been hiding that opinion here.


Now my question to you. If you think taxes are stealing, and stealing is bad.... then do you think tax fraud is moral? Do you think it is "ok" for someone to work around the rules and hide information from the government and pay less taxes than he should according to the rules, trying to keep what he earned even if that's against the law?

Uppity up..

 

[Swift]

Uppity up..

Ok, Danoff doesn't think taxes are theft. Danoff thinks the Robin Hood system is theft. In other words taking from those that have and giving it to those that don't just "because". Danoff has no problems paying taxes that go towards national and local defense. Or roads and things like that. It's welfare, social security and unemployment that he considers theft. Man, even I figured that out a while ago and I'm usually arguing with him.

 

[smellysocks12]

Ok, Danoff doesn't think taxes are theft. Danoff thinks the Robin Hood system is theft. In other words taking from those that have and giving it to those that don't just "because". Danoff has no problems paying taxes that go towards national and local defense. Or roads and things like that. It's welfare, social security and unemployment that he considers theft. Man, even I figured that out a while ago and I'm usually arguing with him.

So since the current system is the "Robin Hood" system, tax fraud is ok?

 

[Famine]

You're judging someone on someone else's representation of their position?

 

[Danoff]

So since the current system is the "Robin Hood" system, tax fraud is ok?

Answered above.

Not quite. I was only making a comparison between two types of payments that are not considered "refundable" under normal circumstances. Government benefits are non-refundable except when needed, as is car insurance.

Brian, I was making a distinction between tax refunds and taxes. That's it.

Absolutely! Just as it is voluntary to live in the United States. I don't think Bush is keeping anyone here under lock & key unless they're criminals.

I've explained to you at least 200 times why you can't use this "if they don't like it, they can move" line of reasoning. You can't use that to justify immoral action. Take the genocide example (...yet again). If congress passed a law saying that all jews were to be killed if they didn't leave the country in 1 month, one could say "if they don't like it, they can move." But that doesn't give you the right to kill them does it?

Seriously, I don't want to explain that again.

So what would you consider an appropriate tax burden, then? At what rate would income tax be low enough to make getting a raise appropriate? What government benefits are you willing to slash in an effort to drop the income tax rate?

When the tax rates are equitable (fair), and when the government stops spending on areas in which it has no business.

 

[smellysocks12]

Sorry, missed your reply.

 

[Danoff]

OK, so this means you work at the best of the best in your field. Any other employer should be happy to steal you away. Stating to a prospective employer that you work for the best, but the position you are in is what'll you'll be doing for the next 20 years, and that spells boredom after a few years, will show them that you want to step your knowledge and experience up to the next level. The best in the business couldn't do that for you, so you began exploring other firms that can. Hence why you're sitting in that seat talking to that company.

I've left and returned. I know many others that have. You didn't jerk that company around. They jerked you around. You asked for more to do, you asked to learn about what's the next step up, you willing looked for ways to improve yourself in that company and they couldn't provide it. Hence you left. You return and it means they want you and are willing to give you that next step.

It's not a question of whether or not I could get promoted. I know I could. I know that within say... 3 years (that'll make me 28), I could be in middle management. But I don't think it's worth it.

In the architecture world, I was at or near the top. The only way to go any higher, is to either start my own firm, or buy into a new firm. The big pay raise that I just took at the new firm, is because I'm in construction now. I manage the on-site construction of big buildings. The money I can make here (based on construction management firms) is more than twice what I could as an Architect.

That's good. I'm glad you were able to do that. As an engineer in the space business, I can't really start my own firm. I make good money right now. I think if I worked really hard I could double it. That's a very respectable end-of-career salary. But the difference between that salary and what I would make if I were a so-so employee isn't enough to get me to want to work hard.

By the time I retire, I aim to be making 5 times what I'd make as an architect. I also have a plan for that. Always have a back-up plan.

I would have to completely change my line of work to make 5 times what I do now. I would have to start my own company or something.

So I have to ask, after reading all that above, Are you happy in the line of work that you are doing? and if so, you can research the expected money for someone in your position and find out if that is something that you can live with. If not, it's time to make a career change.

Yes. I'm very happy in my line of work. I love what I'm doing. I'm happy with the money I make right now. I'm happy with my potential at this firm during my career. But I have very little incentive to get promoted or work hard, since the money can't go up fast enough.

You know what I really think you should do? Track down the last person that left the firm for greener pastures, meet him and buy him a round of drinks. Pick his brain for why he left, and what has happened. Judge yourself against him and see if you could do the same.
AO

I don't think it would be worth it for me to do the same.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

Let's say I make 100k/year. I don't make that, but let's pretend I do. If I busted my ass at this firm, let's say I could make it to 200k/year by the time I retired. There really isn't any way an engineer is going to make more than upper 100's-lower 200's as an employee. Even as a top level manager. I have serious doubts about whether I could actually make 200k given what I'm willing to do.

But if I'm not such a great employee, that pay would probably go up to 150k anyway by the time I retired (assuming the base 100). Now, is the extra 50k to get to 200 worth it? Is it worth the extra responsibility, the potential ass kissing, the late nights, the grey hairs over getting promoted? What does that 50k amount to after takes? 25k/year? After 30 years of busting my ass??? Forget it.

 

[Der Alta]

Exactly.

No you're figuring it out. Why do I need to Live at work, when I can live pretty good doing the status quo. Now that you've realized where you are in the work force, and where you're headed, you'll find many decisions are much easier.

Congrats, you've worked out one of the biggest issues with people nowadays.

 

[Danoff]

Exactly.

No you're figuring it out. Why do I need to Live at work, when I can live pretty good doing the status quo. Now that you've realized where you are in the work force, and where you're headed, you'll find many decisions are much easier.

Congrats, you've worked out one of the biggest issues with people nowadays.

Well the point was supposed to be that I'm finding the high tax rates demotivating. But I suppose this is true too. I find the whole thing to be rather depressing. I expected to be highly motivated to do really well and make more money, but I'm finding that the carrots out there just aren't big enough.

 

[Young_Warrior]

What good is a raise when you only get half of it? What good is overtime pay when it's taxed so much?

Every dollar I get more than what I'm currently earning is taxed in the highest tax brackets that I'm in. The result? When I work overtime, it isn't worth it. If I got a HUGE raise it wouldn't make all that much difference.

So I'm not going to try to get promoted. I'm not going to try to work overtime, and I'm not going to care how good a job I do. I'll just try not to get fired.

Thats what made me become a plumber. 50 pound and hour in hand and I can cheat on my taxes if I wish.

 

[Swift]

Thats what made me become a plumber. 50 pound and hour in hand and I can cheat on my taxes if I wish.

What?

 

[Young_Warrior]

What?

What part dont you understand and i'll explain.

 

[Swift]

What part dont you understand and i'll explain.

The entire second sentence.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Plumbers here can earn £50 (£=pound) an hour. Ad as it is cash in hand he could, if he chooses, not report those earnings or not disclose the full amount earned to the goverment. Thus cheating the tax system.

(For some time atleast.)

 

[Young_Warrior]

Plumbers here can earn £50 (£=pound) an hour. Ad as it is cash in hand he could, if he chooses, not report those earnings or not disclose the full amount earned to the goverment. Thus cheating the tax system.

(For some time atleast.)

Well I figure if drug dealers get away with it so can I.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Well I figure if drug dealers get away with it so can I.

But drug dealers rarely move to well off neighbourhoods where their neighbours will report them.

 

[Swift]

Plumbers here can earn £50 (£=pound) an hour. Ad as it is cash in hand he could, if he chooses, not report those earnings or not disclose the full amount earned to the goverment. Thus cheating the tax system.

(For some time atleast.)

Thanks, the way he worded it I couldn't understand.

Well that's great, Young warrior, you like to cheat on your taxes because CRIMINALS do? Come on, that's not even right.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Thanks, the way he worded it I couldn't understand.

Well that's great, Young warrior, you like to cheat on your taxes because CRIMINALS do? Come on, that's not even right.

I never thought about it like that.
Well I quess I will comprimise and only cheat my taxes when I want a new car


Exige- But how would anyone figure that I was cheating my taxes. As for moving into a nice neighborhood thats not for me till im old. Im a london hood rat

 

[ExigeEvan]

Exige- But how would anyone figure that I was cheating my taxes. As for moving into a nice neighborhood thats not for me till im old. Im a london hood rat

It'll happen. Maybe not at first, but one day someone will think 'hmm, for a plummer he's doing abit too well.'

And if not someone will notice at death and your widow or children will be laboured with it.

Fair enough. There's a guy in Swansea who came from a council estate bit of town, made a few million, then built a mansionette on the edge of the council estate.

 

[Swift]

I never thought about it like that.
Well I quess I will comprimise and only cheat my taxes when I want a new car


Exige- But how would anyone figure that I was cheating my taxes. As for moving into a nice neighborhood thats not for me till im old. Im a london hood rat

So, it's not illegal as long as you don't get caught? Again, that's pretty weak stuff. I'm not a fan of taxes either but I don't practice tax evasion.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Its like p2p download. Who doesnt do it? In england we get taxed for every single little thing we buy so any small advantage I can get I will take. But anyway im not a plumber yet so I might not tax evade when im older because im scared of getting caught.

 

[PS]

But anyway im not a plumber yet so I might not tax evade when im older because im scared of getting caught.

That's like...the most blatantly obvious comment I've ever heard on ths forum. Ever.

 

[Swift]

That's like...the most blatantly obvious comment I've ever heard on ths forum. Ever.

And again I find myself agreeing with PS. Scary

 

[Famine]

Its like p2p download. Who doesnt do it?

P2P is not illegal.

In england we get taxed for every single little thing we buy so any small advantage I can get I will take.

To the point of criminality?

 

[Kylehnat]

danoff, quit whining. When you get a raise, you make more money. That's it. Extra taxes don't catch up to extra income. My father is an engineer at Boeing. He pays $25,000/year in taxes. Does he whine about it? No. He has a good job, job security, and a decent wage. Would he go back to take his salary from 15 years ago, just to pay less in taxes? No.

If you don't like the taxation policies where you live, move to Sweden. They'll gladly show you high taxation.

 

[Famine]

You've rather missed danoff's point.

 

[Young_Warrior]

They need to introduce more stages of taxation in the UK to balance it out. Will explain further but going to go to bed got plumbin classes in the morning.